After receiving numerous emails from concerned readers questioning the Kashruth at a few Dunkin Donuts establishments in Brooklyn, YW called Rabbi Aaron Mehlman who is the Rav Hamachshir to verify the facts. This is exactly what transpired, and what action was taken.
A Mashgiach working for Rabbi Mehlman (at National Kosher Supervision) was conducting a routine Kashruth inspection at the Dunkin Donuts located at the Avenue U / 86th Street / Stillwell Avenue junction. While inspecting the establishment, the Mashgiach came across a newly opened, partially used box of “sharp cheddar cheese”.
This caused an alarm to go off – since the only cheese used is American Cheese. After further inspection it was noticed that the cheese was Treif.
Rabbi Mehlman quickly notified the owner of the franchise of what transpired. After a thorough investigation it was clear that an employee on an overnight shift brought the Treif cheese into the store.
Since the only place that this cheese is used is in the microwave ovens, Rabbi Mehlman informed the owner that the ovens must be shut down and Kashered. The owner started giving Rabbi Mehlman a hard time about it – complaining that it would be too difficult to bring a temporary Kosher oven from another establishment to be used temporarily.
After numerous requests to comply, Rabbi Mehlman removed his Hechsher from the Dunkin Donuts located on Avenue J and East 15th, and in the store in question – located at the junction of Avenue U / Stillwell Ave / 86th Street.
Rabbi Mehlman also stressed to YeshivaWorld that all other Dunkin Donuts which have his Hechsher hanging in the stores are 100% Kosher.
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103 Responses
Why did he remove the hechsher from the east 15th store?
how about the coffee ??
Is the Avenue J store the only one which gets the stuff from the above store in Question?
Do you want to support some one that cares more about money than kashrus ?
how often is the mashgiach in the shop? and is he ever there during the overnight hours? was he familiar with this worker ? was the worker familiar with this mashgiach ? when was the last time he was there ?
Great job Rabbi Mehlman!
This is exactly why no one anywhere should ever eat in any establishment which is owned by someone who you would not eat in his personal house. These “accidents” happen all the time and anyone that frequents these places is bound to eat treif sooner or later. Think I’m crazy? Ask anyone in the hashgacha business !!!!!!
Well…I guess history repeats itself.
These stores were under the Kof-K, until they had Kashrus issues that the owner refused to correct. The Kof-K promptly removed the Hechsher. Then, Rav Mehlman promptly gave his Hechsher, the next day.
No call to the Kof-K, no questions about the previous Rav Hamachshir.
What goes around….comes around.
The 2 stores apparently have the same ownership.
Why can’t we all just stick to cholov yisroel?
Feif Un, This story happened in NY. So your out-of-town issue isn’t relevant to it.
In any event, it is clur that eating cholov yisroel is beneficial to the neshomo. (I am willing to stick to my guns on that point and take heat for it.)
to: Feif Un
If Yiddishkeit is important to you, you’d care more about cholov yisroel and less about the cost.Who says you have to eat Dunkinn Donuts anyway. If all you want are the pleasures of Olam Hazeh, you’ll pay for it in Olam Haboh.
Supposedly Rav Dovid Feinstien doesn’t hold that its so beneficial to the neshoma,unless you prefer to say that he just doesn’t care about his neshoma(i prefer the 1st choise).
souse of this “shita” is a talmid who tells a story (of himself or possibly of a friend) who felt a bit weird when after scrounging the store for cholov yisroel yogurt etc. sees Rav Dovid standing in line with hagen daaz
I don’t know what everyone’s problem is. Everything happended excatly as it was supposed to: They brought in the wrong cheese, the mashgiach found it, and the Rav Hamachshir took action. Has anyone eaten the trief? This is not a scandal. A goy is expected to do that. A scandal is when you have places that are owned by frum yidden who you would eat by (think: Monsey, Glatt Zone, etc) where the frum yid diliberately tried and succeeded to feed treif to yidden. Remember the vinigar in the 80’s? The heimish brands were affected and the national brands were not. So I’m not sure what you gain by sticking to heimish or CY. And BTW, the DD stores in Brooklyn and others in the NY area offer CY. And there’s no ra’aya from anywhere that not keeping CY in America is not good for the neshama. I don’t keep it, and my neshama is just fine, BH.
Rav Hamachshir, I just wanted to let you know that I called Rav Dovid and he said that it’s completely not true. He eats only cholov Yisrael.
The only thing that might be true is that when Rav Rueven was a little boy growing up in America (not Rav Dovid he was born in Russia before Rav Moshe came to America)Rav Moshe gave him non cholov yisrael chocalate bars and candy, but only beacuse at the time there were no cholov yisrael products. I asked Rav Dovid about the candy bars, thinking that it’s a proof that people shouldn’t force cholov yisrael on their children and he just laughed and said it’s not.
Rav Hamachshir,
Whenever you shut off ALL music due to the churban as per Reb Moshe’s chumra, then you can eat hagen daaz as well. You can’t have your ice cream and eat it too (with the music on!!)
Original,
The facts are that there are more problems with not-frum owners compared to frum ones. That is the reason the KCL in Lakewood will not give hashgocha to Heimishe Pizza shop and they had to go the Kaf-K to get it. For every problem they find, they miss dozens….It’s not worth it.
Charliehall
The Donut represents the Entirety of the Wisdom of the Torah and the Universe, where the hole represents the Unanswered Questions. Since the donut will always be bigger than the hole we can be certain, that as yidden who possess the Torah, the questions that have answers will always be more than the unanswered ones.
As far as which donuts to eat, you are much better off eating milchig ones, such as DD or Entenmann’s because they use butter which contains no trans fat, as opposed to parve ones which contain margarin which contains trans fat. Trans fat has been shown to increase risk of cardion vascular disease in any amount.
Gedola sakanta meisura.
stam a deya;
i do, thank you.
indamir — June 26, 2007 @ 12:22 am;
is he still up?
what time can i call him till?
For all of you who say bad things about gedolay hador like Reb Dovid, may your tounges fall off!
to original
and what about the pop’ems? what do they represent?
It’s Chamira sakanta meisura,
try celery sticks-fat free ligamrei.
Pure sheker (and loshon hora) regarding Rav Dovid. He eats Cholov Yisroel.
There is lactose intolerant milk by both golden flow and new square.
Anyone who fails to recognize the detriment to their neshomo from cholov akim is simply blinded by their heart.
ummmm….how did the cheese turn into improperly shechted meat? Treif does not apply to anything but meat, lets get our l’shonos right here.
Indamir,
I don’t know who you called, but it is well known that the Feinstein’s are not makpid on only eating cholov yisroel particularly when the cholov stam brand is better. So Haagen Dasz vs. Klein’s is a no contest.
Once again a Kashrus question, but this time the Rav Hamachshir handled it correctly. As for the question of Cholov Yisroel – we once again have an example of how in America Yidden have become so frum with our chumros, we soon won’t be able to be Jewish.
indamir’s post is so full of misrepresentations, it’s impossible to begin to respond.
Rav Moshe’s wife and children all ate “Chlov stam,” even when CY was easily available. There were often two containers of cottage cheese in the fridge, one for Rav Moshe and one for teh rebetzin.
I don’t know if Rav Dovid eats only CY now. I know that even after Rav Reuven started eating only CY (after Rav Moshe’s petirah), Rav Dovid still ate non-CY.
to:Original
How do you know your Neshama is “just fine”? Can someone feel how his Neshama is doing? There is nothing wrong with chumros, as it does better your neshama. You just don’t have to impose them on others.
basmelech
Not sure how telling me there’s something wrong with my neshama is not an attempt to impose chumras.
I will attempt to explain: If you can’t feel or otherwise sense the quality of your neshama, then what difference does it make? Is it about olam haba? G-d’s judgement is Infinite. Chazal say that we have no idea of what goes on “up there.” We do know, that if we don’t follow halacha we can expect to be punished, and if we do follow it, and treat others with kindness and respect, we can expect reward. Chaumra’s, as you say, are optional. In some cases, they can even bring a person closer to G-d. But the basic way to come close to G-d and to love Him is to enjoy this world and appreciate the fact that everything comes from Him. A person who eats donuts with the correct mind set and makes a bracha with kavana is a holy person.
unoriginal
You ask a great and profound question.
The pop-ems represent the situation in learning where the question becomes the answer.
Everyone who learns gemara is familiar with the Universal Answer to all questions. The one you can leave with and sleep soundly at night…….
“Ain Hochi Nami” (You’re right) – sung in a yeshivish learning melody.
The comments here are really funny. Here we have individuals who are judging up people and deciding if they are “blinded by their hearts” simply by virtue of what chumros they take on. If cholov yisroel is important to you, then great! If you feel the need to share this enthusiasim with others, then find a way to make it worth people’s whiles to want to take on this chumrah. Scare tactics, guilt, and bad mouthing will only drive people further away.
Just a few ideas:
– eat/drink or don’t eat/drink CY based on guidance from your Rav
– don’t bash others for eating/drinking or not eating/drinking CY
– this whole R’Dovid said/does – didn’t say/doesn’t do stuff is not adding to the conversation.
The issue here is that people are relying on the supervision and there was a violation and the mashgiach took care of it.
How did CY become the issue here if the discussion is the reliability of the system involved to maintain kashrus standards. As to Ice Cream there are those who equate it with butter. Ask your local Orthodox Rabbi. In addition story is told that R’ Moshe Zatzal forced regurgitation upon himself when he became aware of having injested Cholov Stam. Would love to have this story verified
Its a well known story that Reb Moishe was invited for a lunch somehwere and after finding out that he had eaten cholov stam, he tickled his throat and tried to vomit it out. He was makpid on himself but apparantly allowed it for otheres
Sammygol. Your point is well taken. However the Poskei Hador were deciding when to follow whom.(that is also based on various Halachic guidelines that are established. So us Shmoes(Yes Shmoes) are not the ones to pick and choose…..By the way there are various Kulos out there that can actually contradict each other. Using both is “eating your cake and having it too”. Again only Halachic athorities should be consulted
RavHamachseer
YOU LIE.
to: Feif un
your friend was right in not giving you the coupon
I also can’t understand why anyone living in NY, where CY food is in abundance, would have to davka go to Dunkin Donuts. It’s just beyond my comprehension.
all these Dunkin Donuts are open Shabbos, don’t have frum (or even Jewish employees)employees, don’t sell their chometz for Pesach….There is no mashgiach
temidi in these places. How can sincere Jews eat
in places like these. It was serendipidous that the
mashgiach found the treife cheese. Howmuch else
was missed?! These stores are located in areas where there are plenty of truly kosher bakeries,
restuarants, bagel stores, groceries, all of which
sell donuts, danishes, coffee and sometimes full
breakfasts. Must we REALLY eat in these questionable places.
You might also consider that when a store has a
hashgocho that differs from all the other hashgochos in the neighborhood, more often than not, its because the more acceptable agencies declined to give hashgocho.
To Sammygol,
You are 100% correct – that is the way of halacha. But it only makes sense to follow Reb Moshe after going through the halacha and seeing that the halacha is like him and not with the others and to make a honest decision what the halacha is. BUT TO FOLLOW REB MOSHE IN THIS SITUATION BECAUSE YOU WANT TO EAT AT DUNKIN DONUTS AND HAAGEN DAAS IS DEFINTLY NOT THE WAY OF HALACHA !!!!!
This is the same problem with the subway sandwich stores. Why do we need them? To imitate the goyim even more?! It’s bad enough the clothing and music industries are on the push the limit of tznius and pritzus. Do we need the same for our food? I’m not saying you’re wrong for eating cholov stam and you may only eat cholov yisroel, that is a personal decision and you are ‘ok’ either way. But why do we feel the need to have everything the goyim have? Soy cheese on our deli sandwiches and soy pepperoni on our pizza! We were chosen by hashem and designated to be different. The goyim were offered the torah and refused it, while we said nase venishma. Now the roles are reversed where we are doing like and listening to the goyim.
TZEE KLUG;
about what
chickenman, gut gezugt.
It is better for our neshamas and subsequently the Olam Haboh that we will earn, if we don’t indulge in all the pleasures (copying the goyim)in thisworld. Emulate the gedolim. Did you ever see any godol walk into a Dunkin Donuts, Subway , etc? We are supposed to enjoy the pleasures of this world, but, I don’t think it includes all the Goyishe indulgences.
don’t sell their chometz for Pesach….There is no mashgiach
temidi in these places.
last i checked if a store is owened by a goy, it doesnt have to sell chometz for pesach, and a “totzey vinichnas” mashgiach if compleatly kosher(if the store is owned/ mansged by a frum person no mashgiach is realy necessary based on Aid Echad Ne’eman Bi’isurin)
I am a little confused and would like some clarification. Recently there was an article in the Mishpocha Magazine that stated that eating non-Chalov Yisroel could be like eating Treife due to some operations that were done on the cow’s intestines. If this is true, what is the Heter for the Kashrus Organizations giving a Hechsher on Non-Chalov Yisroel. This problem would not be solved by leaning on R’ Moshe’s Heter for Chalov Yisroel in America. On the other hand, who says the Chalov Yisroel milk’s cows didnt have the same problem. Does the person watching the milking rule out the status of the cow any better then a cow not being watched. Especially since many Chalov Yisroel plants dont own their own farms and just rent space from others. Perhaps it is the same cows which sometimes are being watched and sometimes not being watched.
Moderator-even if you dont want to print discussion on this issue, can you email me some research on the matter privately.
but, I don’t think it includes all the Goyishe indulgences
thare is a gemora/ chazal that says
“for everything assur, hashem made something mutar”
that gemora/chazal goes on to give examples of things(arayos, foods,etc.) which were not kosher, but had a “stun double”
a modern example would be soy cheese to have with hamburgers
What I think is needed is an independent rating system for all the Hasgachos – where they are Machmir where they are Maykil – How they deal with violations – Masgiach Temidi – checking vegetables, Bishul Akim, Chalav Stam etc.
the jewish nation is very stubborn on all parts
including the masgiach ..i dont allow anyone from
my family to eat in a place where 1) ownership is
not completey jewish no half & half
2) owner, manager
and masgiach all have to be shomer shabbat.
once u have a goi partly ownership there is always
going to be problems.i dont want to mention places
but i hope all of u got the hint
Frankly, I can do without the donuts.
The bigger nisoyon is milk for cofee in a goyish office enviorment. It’s very hard to remember to keep replacing it.
bisul, that may sound nice, but it just doesn’t square with what I have heard from a long time pro mashgiach. He much prefers a goyishe owner, who knows nothing except that he wants a kosher business and will follow orders explicitly without kuntzim. On the other hand it is often the Jewish owner who will try to get around the mashgiach’s orders ’cause he is “also a maven” in kashrus.
Of course there are all sorts of issues that come into play, but a blanket statement like “once u have a goi partly ownership there is always going to be problems”, is flat out wrong.
To sammygol
I own a fleishig and a milchig restaurant in a small midwestern town. We have been open for 15+ years and have been known for our kashrus, cleanliness and consistently tasty and fresh food. We also do full service catering for chasunas, bar mitzvahs, ect….
In both stores we have sandwiches and dishes that can easily be “enhanced” with soy products. I have refused and will continue to refuse any customer with such a request.
I was approached to help open one of thoes franchised chain stores and develop a kosher menu for them. I turned it down. I gave them every reason in the world why I wasn’t interested. It’s just not what we need. Eis pas nisht for a yid. End of story.
Soy cheese on a burger is ISSUR GAMUR because of maris ayin. This is clearly in the SA YD 87
PLEASE, everyone let’s be a little nicer to each other! With so many tzaros going on we really CANNOT AFFORD to speak rudely to each other. To state your opinion or to disagree with another’s opinion is ok, but to bash a person is NOT. PLEASE BE CAREFUL.
Snooders613M
To clear thing up for you.
There are always going to be hecsharim with a higher standard than others and that allow foods that others may not allow. You as a consumer have to know what standard you want for yourself. You can do the legwork and call the organization or have you rov do it for you and find out if they upkeep the standard of kasrus you would want for yourself.
It’s the same with cholov yisroel. There ARE masgichim on the farms checking the cows that are used for their milk run. If they are not “kosher” for the cholov yisroel milk run they are removed. That is the definition of cholov yisroel. There are some kashrus organizations that are lax on checking the cows and it is just “regular kosher” milk. It is ultimately up to you, the consumer, what you want to eat. Rav Moshes heter in the US is the control the government has on the milk industry. They may only use cows milk and therefore it is always going to be kosher milk, but NOT cholov yisroel. Many rabbonim will give a heter to people that they themselves may not keep.
Bentzy18-
i love the way you think
What do you plan on using for a heker in a place where there is not a soybean to be found. BTW all of you who are saying that everything worked as it should, which word of PARTIALLY USED didn’t you understand? A hechsher isn’t to catch things after the fact but to tell you that it is kosher now. If they need to kasher things that means that they were TREIF! Non-kosher cheese can be treif or basar bicholov, and is definitely gvinas akum. Cholov yisroel has nothing to do with cholov treifa. It is purely based on direct supervision. Everyone agrees that it is required, but R’ Moshe felt that the requirment is fulfilled by the government regulation. It is interesting to note that even he felt that one who is stringent should also kasher pots in which it was used. This should also be with the full process as real cholov akum as a nat bar nat di’issura. IGM YD 2 31 in the second to last paragraph.
before i lived in Medinat HaYam, i lived in boro p and flatbush. i remember those d-d stores. the donuts are baked in a separate structure from the store located at 86 and ave u corner. the owner is / was a non shomer shabat jew. since he baked / deep fried the product in the separate building that was closed on shabat (from the 86th st store that was open on shabat), he got a hechsher (i assume the chof-k that someone mentioned) for the ave j and Ave m and kings highway stores, that were closed on shabat.)presumably he sold his chometz, etc otherwise he wouldnt get a hashgacha (if it lasted through pesach), though apparently there were some issues, cause the national hashgacha took back their hashgacha, after a short while, so he ran the stores for several years without hashgacha, till r mehlman popped in. i dont know the issues there, but i was part of a committee that interviewed the rav for a “probe”. he is a musmach of lakewood / bmg, so should be acceptable to the yw crowd.
as someone mentioned, the issue here is not cy / cs but a simple hashgacha issue.
as for trusting non shomer shabat yidden vs goyim vs shomer shabat yidden, there are problems with all of the above. in my exp w/ mashgichim, i find that some goyim are more trustworthy, more afraid, more respectful of kashrus (its a holy thing, the rabbi blesses, etc) and they really respect the whole issue (religious goyim generally respect the whole issue, because its a holy thing). a good friend of mine’s father in law told me the story how a goy he gives hashgacha to in another state calls him up every mitvoch and donnershtick with stupid questions, and the rav is very happy. another client, a yid, he sees trying to sneak in things, so he doesnt trust him.
then there’s another pblm. the recent imbroglio with a restaurant in manhattan, is in my opinion, a kashrus violation. however, there are many cases where hashgacha agencuies tread on “running the business” steps on the managemenmt of the store, and that restaurant was one of those cases.
also, to baki, the issue of kashrering chlava stam pots is not simple as you claim.
to mdlevine, you once lived in a community where the shtut rav, a leader and architecht of orthodoxy in America, did not require glatt / chalak and chalav yisrael in his town. though its in the ny area, there is, even today, a pblm getting cy milk, and it definitely doesnt last more than three days. and this is a major jewish community in the united states. so dont say cy is widely available in america.
to those who want only yidden making our food, someone tried that a few years ago. hot dogs cost over $5 a piece, french fries the same, etc (and we know that except for the shchita, bedikah, and nikur itself, only goyim touched the hot dog meat till it got into the store. in new yoerk, where some of you claim cholov yoisrael is widely available.
long post, hope yw editor lets it in
I did not say that the halacha of pots is simple, I only quoted what is written in IGM. Look it up, I did- its there. I even wrote exactly where to find it since it is a long and complicated tshuva. I understand that there may be those who are more lenient than him, but this psak speaks volumes about what HE, the matir, felt should be done. There are even some who say that he himself told them that it was meant only for those in a place where CY products are not readily available. How much is included in than is unclear.
Snooders6…
Concerning the operation done on cows:
“According to a post on the Areivim list by Rabbi Seth Mandel, a rabbinic coordinator at the OU the following are true:
There are many inaccuracies in what was published in a newspaper on the basis of remarks of a certain rabbi. As far as I remember, none of his statements are correct. The rabbi in question usually uses old information which has long since changed, and he cannot verify it since he cannot visit most plants (he is persona non grata in many companies). Professionals in kashrus usually ignore what he says.
In regard to the milk, the following are the facts in the US:
1) Animals cannot be checked for treifos before they are shechted, unless it is so obvious that the animal is dying (e.g. a nail protruding from the stomach out of the skin, causing bleeding). Farmers check their animals for DA; a vet or a farmer can usually detect signs of it, although most rabbis cannot.
2) Contrary to what the letter implied, cows milked for cholov Yisroel are not checked for DA all the time, certainly not by the Jew supervising the milking. Milking is done as in any dairy, with scores of cows being milked simultaneously by machine, and the Jew does NOT inspect every cow. He is just present in the dairy during the milking, and not always in the milking barn, just somewhere in the dairy.
3) The Cholov Yisroel dairy under the OU asks its farmers to remove any animals with DA from the herd, and we assume other cholov Yisroel dairies do as well. It is the farmer’s responsibility, and usually the farmers have the animals inspected by a vet before they join the herd, and they examine them periodically afterwards. It is the farmer who is saying that his animals are healthy. There is no reason not to believe him, because…
4) Even in herds where the farmer does not say he culls out DA animals, the percentage of dairy cows with DA is less than 5%. So there is not even a mi’ut hamatzui of DA dairy cows. Any dairy farmer can certify that his animals are healthy and be correct, because there at most will be only one or two in large herds that are not.
5) So the only difference with cholov Yisroel is that the farmer says he will remove DA animals, but he is not obligated to do it every day nor every week. Generally the farmers will notice after a few days if the animal is sick, both by cholov Yisroel and cholov stam. In either case, the animal will be removed from the milking herd until its health improves. In some cases it has the small operation to cure DA, which itself is a machlokes haposkim whether it causes the animal to be treif.
6) …
7) …
BUT to claim that cholov stam is forbidden and cholov Yisroel only is permitted is simply not true. … And we are only discussing DA. Most other treifos cannot be checked for without killing the animal, which one does not do with dairy cows until they are too old and sick to give much milk.”
Ershtens, as of six years ago R’ Dovid Feinstein was eating Cholov Stam ice cream B’farhesya when there was Cholov Yisroel available for free.
It was at a friends Sheva Brachos, where all the yeshivaleit were being makpid and Reb Dovid took the CS no problem
Could be he’s frummed out since. lol
Tzvatens, it would be a lot bigger chumra to get off the Internet completely rather than stop eating CS.
Drittens, I have heard quite reliably that the throwing-up story with R’ Moshe zt’l never happened, although even if it did, it proves nothing with regard to this convo.
And BTW, I’m not a CS eater, except in emergency. But let’s call a spade what it is.
MMHY – post 68 – not sure why you are addressing the point to me…
my only posts here were #6 and #36
i read all the IGM teshuvot on cs issue, even though i have a disagreement with the writer.
but nowhere threre does he discuss pots
I propose the following. True benei Torah and G-d fearing jews should not eat at any food establishment. They will acumilate tremendous merit by refraining to eat at any restaurant. I have been doing this for years. I do not eat at any restaurant or catered event for the simple reason , only g-d knows what truly goes on in those kitchens.
Now most of you will think that I am nuts but guess what, in olam haemes most of you will be nuts.
I wrote EXACTLY where to find it in IGM, unless you see a difference between a pasteurizer and a pot. I don’t. He writes straight out to kosher like from CA. BTW in siman 35 he calls it a chashash issur and writes that it is worth spending a skum gadol for CY for chinuch. He also writes that IN A PLACE THAT CY ISN’T AVAILABLE it can be used bli chashash. Also note that in the first siman he only calls it a makom gadol lihatir.
By the first siman I mean the first siman mentioned.
Ana masnisa yodana. What he would have said, could have said, etc. I have no clue. The fact is that this is what he actually WROTE AND PUBLISHED. Anything else is speculation, albeit educated. P.S. Don’t rely on me for anything I wrote, look it up and see for yourself. If after that you can explain why his son says this let up know.
I was told by someone at the OU that there was once talk of a CY run of HD ice cream but it never happened since the cost would have been prohibitive.
About the Lakewood Pizza store matziv, Why would Rabbi Heineman give a Hechsher on a pizza store in Lakewood when Lakewood’s own Kashrus Agency refused? Why would he would bypass the KCL’s decision?
Misterman,
NO ONE will be considred ‘nuts’ in the oilom Haemes for eating out in restaraunts that have a proper suitable hashgocho! The Torah says ‘vochai bohem’.
WE ARE ALLOWED TO ENJOY LIFE AS LONG AS THINGS FIT IN WITH OUR HASHkofos! Did you ever consider the fact that these restaranteurs and food establishments are ALSO in need of parnosoh and that is the way they accumilate their livelihood? Did it ever occur to you that a baal Simcha might feel bad if you dont eat when he makes an affair?. You can always request a fish meal if you have a problem,
A true Bnei TORAH IS Tze G-d UND tze Laat’;
Rav Avrohom Twersky once gave a shiur and said that the only Aveiroh a person truly has to worry about in the Oilom Haemes is ‘hamalbin pnei chaveiroh birabim’. ShAMING SOMEONE IS something one will not be compromised for so easily! Any other sin one does he can always make up for with mitzvahs in his past,
A TRUE Bnei Torah should be concerned with the 3 Amudim: TORAH , Avoda and gemilus chasodim!
After having read this story and some of the posted comments (would take hours to read and “chazir over” all of them), I have come to the conclusion that I am no worse off than the CHolov Yisroel people. You see, the people paying the premium prices for the cholov yisroel and glatt mehadrin yoshon noki mchsash orlah noki m’toiloim and all the other nomenclature are being ripped off because their hashgocha is no better than the “treif” dairy products at Dunkin DOnuts WHICH WAS CAUGHT in time. Can you say the same about the rosho merusha in Monsey who supposedly taught Daf Yomi? HA on all of you running after all these phoney hashgoachos doing nothing but sucking your money out of your pockets. I pay less for my dairy products and its reliability is as good, if not, better than yours. Tell me the very first or last time you saw any of those posted names make an appearance at the plants they supposedly supervise. I challenge all readers to answer this critical question.
I am confused. Why are the DDs on Kings Highway not included in this story? Can I still patronize the Kings Highway DDs?
baki
the additional poundage would also have been prohibitive.
Moderator,
you owe an apology to the Feinstein family for publishing a post stating that Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l vomitted in public purposely.
No godol hador and godol b’middos v’torah would conduct such a childish, immature, irrational behavior.
Furthermore, you owe an aplogy to the readers of the YWN who had to be exposed to this vicious loshon horah.
Editors Response: “Vicious Loshon Hora”?! No apology required.
YW, just ignore Mr Non KollelMan.
He is well known around here for his vicious attacks against anything Frum.
On another note, he obviouly has difficulty reading the simple article written by you.
It clearly states that Rabbi mehlman stated that ALL stores which have hs Hasgocha hanging are 100% Kosher.
Also, it clearly states that the reason that only those two stores lost their hasgoco because they were owned by the same owner LI’AFUKEY the other stores.
He also failed to realize that the “vicious” L”H was mentioned twice by two seperate commentators – and hapens to be a story which I have personally heard many times – although never confirmed.
partially used is not caught in time
Please remove the quote from an OU RC or at least his attack on someone who is actually quite respected, although controversial, in the kosher industry. Even he he disagrees with the content, the personal attack is uncalled for. This is from an RC who regularly attacks anyone who pushes for a higher standard than the OU. Recordings of this are easily available on the OU website.
Joe,
Glad you caught up with me.
We’ll chat later. Take Care.
TO ALL WHO ARE SO CONCERNED WITH CHUMROS:
What about a serious issue such as shaving – something we do daily – and each hair we cut, can be many issurim – and no one seems concerned!!
MDLEVINE;
re-Nonkollelman,,,,,,BOY DO I SEE YOUR POINT ABOUT THIS INDIVIDUAL, I retract any kaf zechus that I saw in him!!!!!
misparayim kien taar is mutar
MDLEVINE & nameless need help,
professional help.
Baki: The one who could have the ignorance to ask the question, probably didn’t understand your answer.
frumblogger post #92 “shaving – something we do daily”
1) extremely relevant to the issue
2) speak for yourself – what is this we business
while, I’m typing – Nameless, i think we agree on more issues than we disagree – sometimes it just takes me longer to convince you :o) —
b/t/w wear post #95 as a badge of honor.
Yes, I’m happy i’m in such good company! Too bad though, ‘Einstein’ forgot to include YW editor for having the ‘chutzpah’ to mock his suggestion that my
nos. 38 post was ‘vicious’ LH:))))))LOL
1. regarding mdlevine — i meant the approval or not of cs
2. correction re: my disagreement with the writer — i meant the one who sent in the shayla(ot) to r moshe
3. regarding the surgery on cows — farmers are very picky about infections on their cows, since it contaminates (check proper word) their milk. i once did a kashrus job at a milk plant (long story — not my cup of tea) and they showed me how each load is checked by an onsite lab for (contaminated) milk, and if its not approved, the trucker has a separate sample from each farm, they test each sample, and the farmer whose sample is contaminated has to pay each farmer $50,000 (or so, depending on how many pounds (pounds, not gallons; milk at this stage is sold / transported in pounds) because he contaminated the rest of the truck. \\ the moral of this whole point is, is that farmers are very picky about bacterial contamination, and i am sure a “surgery” of this type leads to bacterial contamination, requiring antibiotics, etc, or a simpler solution, no surgery.
Its obvious to anyone willing to see, that those who refrain from cholov akim are on a higher madreiga.
That is not to say that those who eat cholov akim will get gehenim for it.
Someone up there posted about how the store was open shabbos and did not sell their chometz etc. …
I hate to break the news to you that an AYNO YEHUDI DOES NOT HAVE TO KEEP SHABBOS NOR DO THEY HAVE TO SELL CHOMETZ.
All you people here arguing about kashrus related items are so funny when you have no idea about the real world of kashrus except how it relates your big boich!
I believe that the post #38 was placed by “useless” rather than nameless.
Just to note, I DID NOT POST that he regurgitated in public!!!!
Fein Uf,
I said its obvious to anyone willing to see. Obviously one can blind themselves to an inconvenient fact.
However high a madreiga someone is on, they will be on an even higher madreiga by refraing from eating Cholov Akim, and maintaining a strict Cholov Yisroel diet.
The neshama is affected by things not obvious to man.
hey speaking about the kasherous in dunkin donuts-did anyone ever check out the hangouts that go on in these stores?-i think anther mashkiach should be on premises then too!
You non-believers seem to think that people who eat only Cholov Yisroel are wasting their money and energy doing so. You are sadly mistaken. The fact is Gedolei Yisroel unanimously eat Cholov Yisroel.
All the above claiming otherwise are self-serving justifications to make oneself feel better about their lack of avoiding Cholov Akim.
It is indisputable that being machmir, and avoiding Cholov Akim, helps the neshama. ASK any Godol Hador (instead of claiming here to KNOW otherwise.) You’ll surprise yourself.
FU: wrong.
We recall the story of the man who looked around for “Kulos”, for leniencies, his whole life. After 120 years, the Heavenly Court reviewed his records, noted that he followed the laws, and advised him that he would be going to “Gan Eden.”
The angels escorted him to his final place, which turned out to be a dark, dingy and rather damp cell. “This is Gan Eden?!”
“Yes,” they replied, “according to some opinions.”
(Thanks Yudel)
Reb Moshe didn’t assur Kulas obviously, but it was a kula according to Reb Moshe.
Just a few more comments:
Joseph:Yasher Koach on that funny joke. It’s one of those that gets a laugh every time.
RE: The Regurgitation of R. Moshe: If it was done in private, how did the witness know about it? Did he follow the Sage into the rest room? Did the Godol excuse himself and say what he was about to do, or report on his action afterwards? The reason I am sp skeptical is as follows: The “aveira” of eating something takes place when the food is swallowed. All spiritual effects happen at that moment. They cannot logically be undone by regurgitation. In fact, there is no source in the Torah that I know of, of such a “tikun.” R. Moshe, and every other godol are logical people more than anything else, and even though I did not know him personally, I find it extremely hard to accept that he would make such a logical error. Of course, if someone can show me that such a tikun does exist anywhere in halacha or kabala, I will happily be modeh al ho’emes.
RE: Affects on a neshama: Whether or not something has a negative effect on his or her neshama is not a determining factor in halacha.
For instance: supposing you know about a certain thing that would be “good for your neshama” but the halacha says you’re not allowed to do it. You don’t do it. On the other hand, let’s say there’s another thing that can be demonstrated as being bad for your neshama, but the halacha says that you’re mechuyav to do it. You go ahead and do it, and deal with the degradation. Now it just so happens to be, that when you violate halacha, it is bad for your neshama. And when you do a mitzva it is good for your neshama.
So what about chumras? There two types of chumras: (1) Where the halacha says it is totally allowed, but you want to be machmir. In such a case, you are not allowed to be machmir because it means that you are not accepting what the Torah says and you are trying to be “frummer than G-d.” (2) There are some situations where it is acceptable to be machmir. These are situations where there is one source who says it is not allowed, but we don’t paskin like him.
In such a situation, it is OK to be machmir in defferance to that opinion. In fact, it is often considered to be a mitzva of “lifnim meshuras hadin,” providing all the other conditions are met (doesn’t cause strife, doesn’t lead to kulas in other areas etc). This is what R. Moshe means when he says “ba’al nefesh machmir al atzmo,” meaning, it’s OK to be machmir.
But what happens when you come from a community where they hold like someone else? What if your Rav disagrees with R. Moshe? What if your minhag or your father’s minhag or especially your husband’s minhag says that it’s not allowed? In such a case, it becomes prohibited for you, and if you go ahead and eat it, it will be bad for your neshama.
On the other hand, if your Rav tells you that it’s OK, or if you were brought up that way, or if you came to the conclusion from your own learning, or your husband says that it is OK, then, for you, there’s nothing wrong with drinking it, and it will not have any ill affect on your neshama.
I hope this clarifies things
sammygol
Yes, the discussion has started with the Donut, but has since spread into the most basic fundamental principles of our faith, the circle of life, and the purpose of man’s existence on this world. It is a tribute to the grandeur and beauty of Judaism where even the most minute detail can be connected to the most submlime truths. But some questions cannot be answered in this world. We must wait and hope to be zoche to understand the reasons for questions that have puzzeled the greatest minds from time immemorial. But one day, if we are zoiche, and if out hearts and neshamas are pure, we can hope to get a glimpse of the true light and understanding and begin to see a light at the end of the tunnel and learn the answers to questions such as this one:
Why do bagels have holes?
I worked for the Dunkin Donuts on 86st and stillwell and it always worked with the jewish community. I remember the rabbi use to come and check the bread to make sure it had a u on it and check to make sure we had kosher food and the owner always did what he asked. i dont know if it is the same rabbi i remember he alway came in on my shift and was a nice man we got along well and i know there had been where the work made a mistake when we bought bread and some other items he just told us to throw it out and try to make an effort not to make a mistake you can not blame the owner for something a work did i was 18 when i worked there i am not 37 years old and i worked there for many years and she always did the right thing for the jewish community especial that 86st is not in a jewish area but we made that kosher because that is were the baking was done and sent to ave m and j i know she does not own ave m any more but i hope this give you some insite to what she is like. i am so sorry to hear this happened and its a shame that u will lose this stores to go to since she really did make sure everything ran the way the rabbi wanted and she and her husband are not jewish
If people were only as concerned about the kashrut of their income and honesty in dealing with others as they are as to whether or not someone may or may not have eaten food from an oven where possibly non kosher cheese may have been heated or whether or not Rav Moshe did or did not try to force himself to vomit after possibly eating chalav stam -what a better nation we would be
Here is the true story about the DA (displaced abomasum) in dairy cattle.
Dairy cattle require concentrated foods like fish meal or soy meal to give the animal required protein and calories to produce massive amounts of milk. Sometimes this causes a part of the intestine, the abomasum,to move or displace causing the animal to stop eating and drop milk production. This can be corrected by moving the animal on its back, which usually doesn’t work or by surgery which does. There are several types of surgery that can be done. One type of surgery involves the thread piercingthrough the intestinal wall which I believe makes the animal not kosher. Other methods of surgeries do not have the surgical thread piercing through the wall which does not render the animal not kosher.
Milk is checked at the dairy for fat and protein content, antibiotic residues, added water and the amount of bacteria found in the raw milk. This last check is used to determine if the udder has a bacterial infection as well as the hygiene of themilking parlor.
Many if not all of the baked goods (donuts, bagels, etc) that come in to the stores, at least in the Northeast US, have hashgacha. But they also serve lots of treif food, so there are major issues in their kitchens. You’d need to find a place that is under rabbinical supervision to get anything more than coffee or tea.
this guy is only interested in making money he also gives supervision on dunkin’ donuts that serve treif and there is one there to stop mixing the two.
Rabbi Mehlman and National Kosher Supervision appear to be pay-for-certificate operations. They don’t supervise anything and only show up to collect payments. Their certificate is worthless.