This type of Tropicana orange juice contains a type of fish oil know as Omega 3. The fish oil is in very small amounts, but we still feel it is our obligation to the public who rely on the OK to bring it to their attention. Chazal tell us that is a danger to eat fish and meat together. This is the reason we asked Tropicana to put the “F” after the OK symbol, which they kindly did. (OK Kashruth Alerts)
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48 Responses
curious
anyone know the source for the fact of meat with fish being a sakannah?
I have heard its a practical thing, eating fish, you feel for bones, not so with meat, so eating both could cause you to be careless and choke. Regardless, its halachah so no OJ with your double burger.
What else might have Omega3?
The source is mentioned many times in Shas. It is also a Halacha. The Gemara says that it is stricter than Issur. There are several reasons given. One is that it will cause Tzara’as( Leprosy)
it a minhag practissed by all jews( not sure by sefardim )
typical pr stunt, fish oil remnant is botul by who knows how many times, so for the halacha of fish and meat it seems maybe as a far fetched chumrah,(or more likely ameratzus).
i wonder if this is supposed to persuade us that any ok establishment the masgiach must be really good , look they even are makpid on fish oil in orange juice, the masgiach must really be checking lettuce, the meat is really glatt, they must really not rely on who knows how many kullus when giving factory produced products with hashgachos.
do we consumers seem so naive.
It’s a Gemorah פסחים ע”ז עמוד ב and many poskim hold it is not botel bishishim, because חמירא סכנתא מאיסורא
thank you
that’s fascinating
i wonder if anyone has a reference to the Gemorrah. the OK mentions Chazal.
feivel
It’s a Gemorah פסחים ע”ז עמוד ב and many poskim hold it is not botel bishishim, because חמירא סכנתא מאיסורא
feivel
for the ok not to mention the gemorah does not surprise me, (maybe they thought its a tanya)
kartausa how about bottul beélef
kartausa when the gemorah calls it a sakanah does it refer to only solid fish (gush) or even taam or fish juice/oil?
it seems more likely the first tzad.
thank you kartausa!
feivel
that reminds me
i recently heard about a daf, i think it’s in Bava Basra, it also is Ayin Zayin. the amud is nothing but a Tosafos. i heard from R’ Efrayim Wachsman that it was written in their blood in prison while awaiting burning the next day during the Inquisition.
This is great!
Strawberries are now Fleishig, so we can’t eat them and drink OJ.
OJ is Fish-ig so we can’t mix them with water which is fleishig.
The only thing that’s Parve… is probably the meat and the milk.
just to be an um haretz let me ask how a davur choshev can be butel?
the fish oil is in there specifically for the omega 3. How you you be mevatel this?????
a jew-
What’s so choshuv about that fish oil?
If there was a piece of shmaltz herring in the OJ… Nu.That would be choshuv.
But omega 3? would you bring that to shul for a kiddush?
what about the issur of eating fish and milk together???!!! it seems since the bagel, cream cheese & lox was invented – people ‘forgot’ about that Isssur –
well i did some googeling, and heres what i found…
The Bait Yosef on the Tur Yoreh De’ah siman 87 cites the opinion that eating fish and milk is forbidden because of danger to health. The Darkei Moshe argues that this is incorrect. Both the Shach (s.k. 5) and the Taz (s.k. 3) maintain that this is a scribal error. Indeed the Bait Yosef himself does not cite this opinion in the Shulchan Aruch.
However, the Levush and the Pitchei Teshuvah (siman 9), the Pri Megadim in the name of the BeHaG, the Adnei Paz (siman 42) in the name of Rabbeinu Bechaye and others forbid it.
The custom today is generally that most people eat fish and milk together. However, some Chassidim do not.
frumblogger
good post!
like i said at most a chumrah pr stunt.
btw
a jew
if it is not batul and you consider it fish what makes you think that it is not coming from cat fish or some other treife fish,
you think omega 3 comes from gefilte fish? (or is it roiv fish are kosher, and kol deparish, i dont think so)
Grump
When the gemorah say something is because of sakana, there are many more reasons than ones the gemorah states, you cannot deduce for the gemorah alone that liquid is different from solid.
There is still the problem of fish and meat together, which would mean that we may not drink that OJ with meat. I don’t think the OK mentioned milk with the OJ, so I don’t see why they should be accused of making a “chumra pr stunt.”
It’s interesting to note: the Magrev rav R’Shea Katz mentioned this in a speach 4 years ago!
fish and meat together is not a matter of kashrus like meat and milk, but, rather one of sakono(danger). |That is why one shouldn’t use worcestershire sauce with meat either, because it contains fish.
Jack Daniels makes different flavored BBQ sauce… i don’t recall which flavor (original??), but one of them does contain ANCHOVIES (FISH)………..
Do what you want… botul or not..
Yes Sephardim also don’t eat fish with meat or milk. btw grump, you realy do sound like a grump, if your willing to take the chance of what the gemara calls a sakana, I wish you luck!!
post #24 “Do what you want… botul or not..”
Not a Torah value.
pure foolishness
What about the Kashrus of the fish? Yes there is Bitul B’Shishim, but why not L’Chatchila just buy the regular OJ without the additives. If you need the Omega 3 just eat fish or buy vitamins.
What about the Calcium OJ. What is the source of the callcium. Besides that the taste is not the same
sounds “fishy ” that they must all of a sudden put it in their oj . why now , havent they been in bussiness for many years now ? the people who drank their oj for the last few decades should demand a refund for all those years of not having omega 3 in it
Regarding fish and cheese together, sefardim are makpid, while most ashkenazim are not.
Now all the mifunakim who dont like to eat fish on Shabbos can drink some OJ and then make a l’chaim before the fleisch.
There are a few things which seen to need clarification here. 1. Grump, the motzi shem ra that you are writing is osur according to everyone. How can you write such slander when you apparently are unfamiliar with these halachos. 2. Whether or not we can apply bitul here is a machlokes Taz and Shach YD 116:2. 3. There is on difference at all between fish oil and fish meat. Why did you think that there is. 4. The fish would not be considered choshuv but may be a davar hamamid as it is there for a purpose. 5. As far as BBQ sauce is concerned, the OU will rely on bitul and will only write fish if there is enough of it. This is based on a psak from HR’ Schachter quoted in Daf Hakashrus vol.2 no.2 that they can rely that anyone who is stringent can check the label for anchovies he they wish. I asked him why it would not be considered avidei litama and not botel but he said that he did not remember the exact question posed to him. Someone else at the OU told of that this issue is taken into account, and that often even when anchovies are listed they do not give taste but are only there for the prestige of having real ones. The taste can still be from artificial flavors. I discussed this with a posek who told me that that he wouldn’t go and buy such a sauce, but if he already had it he would use it with a clear conscience.
destro, that is mentioned by MA and MB 177 as a possibility. Darkei Teshuva 116 :16 brings that we cannot rely on this but may use it as a reason to be more lenient about this issue than we would be otherwise.
Frumblogger- Nice post
>Comment by destro613 — June 19, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
>sorry to say but we don’t have that issue with >that sakana anymore that is why they serve at >event fish dishes and meat dishes at buffets >together
Exactly who is we? All chasidim are makpid on almost all issues where shas or shulchan orech say sakanah. I suppose when you set your shabbos table you only use one fork? You use the same plate for gefilte fish on one side and chicken on the other?
If something is done or not done because of “sakanah” and the specific sakanah is mentioned there may be a way to get around it, example:
Shulchan orech says you should not drink from a glass that was left out overnight because a snake may have drunk from the glass and released venom into it while doing so. Even those that are matir do not trash the prohibition, they state that chazal were only gozer on a place where there are snakes. Therefore if you drink from such a glass you are not transgressing a prohibition from chazal because according to those opinions chazal did not make a blanket prohibition that would cover where most of us live today. Chasidim generally do not drink from such a glass regardless and would typically cover tea scence or other such item that is left out over night.
On the other hand, if the sakanah is not specified such as in the case of metzitzah b’peh, and the shailos and tshuvos sfarim speak about it, we do not abandon it any cost because the unspecified sakanah may be worse than what we may think is a sakanah from metzitah. Specifically the sfarim discuss if the sakanak referred to is immediate, long term, or spiritual. Not being able to answer that question they mandate maintaining metzitzah as it was done for 3000 years. Among the strongest supporters were the Binyan Tzion, Mari Assad, and Maharm Schick. The latter points out, if one is required to be moser nefesh on Akarta demasani (a shoe lace,) then metzitzah, which in the worse case is sufek halacha l’moshe Misinai, one is surely required to be moser nefesh. As a side note if you wish to do a little research on Dr Tendler’s Aug 2004 pediatrics article, you will find that it contradicts 30 years of neonatal herpes research done by Drs. Whitley, Kimberlin, Nahamias, Arvin, Brown, & Yeager, the leading reseachers in the field. More info at pubmed.gov and dhengah.org/mbp/tendlervstendler.htm
grump-
>
frumblogger was NOT refering to fish and meat, he was refering to fish and milk.
This that fish and meat are sometimes found at the same buffet is not because we say that there is no longer any danger, but because we assume that everyone will seperate them properly. Any reliable hechsher will have rules to prevent them from mixing.
YW Editor- I just hope that OJ is not the secret ingredient that makes Yussi’s Sushi the best Sushi in Lakewood or anywhwere else.:-)
It should also be noted that in SA YD 95:1 it is written that fish may be eaten with kutach which is a milk product and the gemara chulin 111b mentions some amoraim that ate them together.
It’s not just fancy buffets. A regular kiddush after Shul will often have herring and cold cuts. I’m always makpid to use separate toothpicks, but many people don’t.
Does anyone know if any recent Medical/Halachic literature/research has been done in this area?
Can’t find the reference to fish given as being on ‘ayin zayin’ – פסחים ע”ז עמוד ב
or is that ayin daled עד?
ONCEFRUM
Are we relying on the Rambam’s manual for heart surgery?
MABBY IF WE REILED ON THE CHAZAL AND THE RAMBAM WE WOULDNT BE NEEDING HEART SURGERY
Scientific studies are often not applicable to us, because Chazal say that the bodies of Yidden are not the same as the bodies of goyim. In fact, the Prishah in Hilchos Niddah cites the Chasam Sofer, iirc, to that effect, and paskens that what goyisher doctors say about dfferent types of blood is therefore not always relevant to Halachah.
Don’t take that as a blanket ruling to ignore what the doctors say. But what the doctors say cannot ALWAYS be kovai’ah the Halachah.
Is the fish oil from a kosher fish?
Ibought Hellman’s mayonnaise today & it says on the label “Naturaly rich in Omega 3 ALA.” Does naturaly mean that it does not come from fish, or is it from fish and it’s assur to use in a fleishige sandwich? Anybody out there want to weigh in?
Some kosher sources of Omega 3 are: flaxseeds, walnuts, soybeans, tofu (which comes from soybeans anyway), navy beans, kidney beans, winter squash, extra virgin olive oil (fresh, NOT fried olive oil), tuna, chinook salmon, snapper, cod and halibut.
However, kidney beans, cod, and yellowfin tuna, while they have omega 3, it is not present in abundance or in high quality. The best sources that I could find are flax seeds, walnuts, and baked or broiled chinook salmon. Ideally, one should eat a little of each these foods throughout the week, to get the variety of omegas available.
Incidentally, note that only some types of codfish are kosher. Some types of cod are NOT kosher. In any case, Halachah requires that fish be bought from a kosher establishment, unless you know how to and are able to determine which fish you are buying.
I do not know the source of the omega 3 in Hellman’s Mayonaise, but it could very possibly be from non-fish sources.
I am amused to note that cholent (navy beans, kidney beans) is apparently high in omega 3’s.
Thank you, sammygol.
SAMMYGOL-
Thanx for the info on Hellman’s, but hoe do you know? Are you saying a svora or do you have factual info?
I await your response, it’s almost Shabbos & I need my mayo!
who puts mayo on a fleish sandwich anyway??? absolute goyish
Levine-
Try it with cold cuts, its mamesh geshmak. Also on a piece of Challah with Chopped Liver. Mamesh May’ayn Oilam Habboh. L’kovod Shabbos Kodesh!