8 Responses

1. A government shutdown is good for the frum community since many frum Jews work for the government, and in a shutdown (whether due to Congressional idiocy or snow) the civil service gets paid leave. A furlough (unpaid leave) requires several weeks advance notice.

   Since most political leaders are from the center, doing something excessively stupid would encourage fringe candidates (of the sort generally not currently in Congress), which is not likely to happen.

2. #1,

   You have no idea what you are talking about. If government employees who get a sudden furlough because of a government shutdown ever do get paid, it is only after the shutdown is over. In the mean time, they can lose their homes, have their kids kicked out of school because they don’t have tuition, experience serious medical problems and be unable to pay the bills, or suffer other serious consequences through no fault of their own. And with the government-employee bashing coming from the Republicans these days, there is no assurance they will even return to their jobs after a shutdown, much less get paid for the time they could not work.

3. charliehall, I have relatives that work in the federal government. The unions give compensation during a shutdown. That is one of the reason that members pay dues (supposedly anyway).

   In the meantime, the furloughed workers could do the right thing and find a job in the private sector and save the rest of us taxpayers money. A government shutdown is a wonderful idea and the Republicans should be taking the credit for it.

4. #3- unions have nothing to do with compensation in the Federal government – all salaries are covered by statutes, and all the unions do is lobby – and if you are a federal employee on an annual salary (unlike an hourly employee), you get paid regardless. Remember that Federal unions can’t negotiation wages, and unlike most states and private employers — the federal government is a “right to work” system (meaning union membership, and dues are optionals). Union members get no extra benefits (but do get invited to union parties, but that’s about it). THUS A SHUTDOWN only affects contractors and hourly employees, not the “normal” federal employee who gets paid anyways. Many of frum federal employees would use the days off to learn Torah. Thus, a shutdown is a good thing – AND ONE THINGS THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

   A furlough (a scheduled temporary layoff, announced well in advance) is more likely. THen civil servants neither get paid and don’t work (though most patronage types will end up working for free)

5. No akuperma, you are only partially right. A shutdown would affect all non-essential employees such at HHS, EPA, DOE, SSA to just name a few. There is a fund that has been set up which is taken out of part of the dues that union members pay into monthly. Membership in a union on the federal level is not just voluntary. The head of the union makes it his or her business to let you know that they are not happy if you are not part of a union.

6. Politically, this is very interesting.

   The 1995 Government Shutdown was instigated by Republican budgetary muscle flexing, following the 1994 mid-term elections, when two year’s into the Clinton Administration the GOP took over both houses of Congress. But it backfired as a political strategy; public reaction against the GOP related to the shutdown is widely credited with being a factor in Clinton’s 1996 victory.

   So . . . bring it on Cantor.

7. #3 – Yoursister, unions sometimes have “stike funds” from which striking or locked out members receive a small stipend for a limited period of time. That’s it

8. #5 – it is virtually impossible for a union to coerce anyone in federal civil service to join — absolutely no benefits (including legal representation in grievance procedures) is available to union members that is denied to non-union members. This is totally different than the situation in the private sector or in most states. Only things provided with union dues (such as the holiday party) are restricted to members. The unions complain about the “free rider” issue, and even the Democrats haven’t had the nerve to try to change the federal civil service into an “agency shop.” Federal unions can negotiate on non-economic issues, but any benefit goes equally to members and non-members of the union (things like free parking, day care centers, location of soda machines, etc.). If the states were sane (most such as New York and California aren’t), they would adopt the federal model – meaning pay and benefits are not subject to union negotiations.

   There is no such thing as a “strike fund” in civil service. And if there was a shutdown, unlike a private sector lockout of hourly employees, the annual civil servants get paid without having to have worked or done anything – which is why a shutdown similar to 1995 is unlikely ever again. The hourly employees (of which there are very few in civil service) and contractors do go unpaid.

   A planned furlough, or reduction in the GS salary scale, is quite possible. The unions can lobby against it – but whatever is done, will affect union and non-union members equally (the only exception is for elected officials, whose salary is controlled by the constitutional rule against changes occuring mid-term).