A group of missionaries has been active this morning in Boro Park (spotted on 13th Avenue) representing an organization calling itself Days of Moshiach. DOM is actually a division of Jews for Yoshka, which distributed that Yiddish DVD to tens of thousands of homes last summer (as reported HERE on YW). Do NOT take their material, as they receive funding for all pieces distributed. If you can, just donate a few minutes of your time to politely wasting their time, and informing passersby of their agenda to convert Jews to Christianity. Please take the proper precautions – and warn your children.
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41 Responses
Why are yeshiva bochurim from the local yeshivos in BP not out in force on 13th ave combatting these thugs (not physically). Why the uncaring attitutde by the yeshivas in this matter. This is a very serious issue confronting jews worldwide. Missionaries are winning in their strategy.
Oh, I understand. Yeshivos don’t get involved because of bitul Torah.
WHAT? We are dealing with the destruction of Torah here.
Get out there on 13th Ave and keep yiddishe neshomas away from these thugs. It is high time that the Yeshivish world start getting involved in community issues at the outset, not to wait until the next Agudah convention is convened. By that time, many neshomos could have been lost.
If the roshei yeshiva believe it is not bitul torah but a necessity, they will come. Who are we to criticize the Roshei Yeshiva? Jews for Judaism has a website and has great literature detailing exactly what to do. The best thing to do is to ignore but be extremely vigilant to protect our children. The missionaries are trying to recruit believe or not Yeshiva Bochurim! Just talk to Jews for Judaism!
Perhaps it would be better for yeshiva bochurim not to get involved but rather to leave it to competent antimissionary professionals. In the words of a prominent anti missionary professional: Yeshiva bochurim by and large don’t know enough in these areas of hashkafa to engage these animals at their game.
get the satmar dana to “talk” to them
to “Nonkollelman” since when is it the job of yeshivah bochrim to STOP leraning to take care of every “mishagas” that takes place.
As your name clearly states you are not sitting in kollel why dont you take OFF A DAY from your job to stop this destruction.
Oh i understand . You dont want to lose your job
STOP picking on yeshivah guys to do all your “dirty” work that you “working” people do
YESHIVAH GUYS WORK TO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t believe that yeshiva bochurim are sophisticated or knowledgeable enough to get into debates with these people. The missionaries send out highly trained professionals, who have been educated and are ready with an answer to any question they are asked. They are almost impossible to ruffle or debate.
The yeshiva bochurim are doing much more for the strength of Torah by sitting and learning.
FYI: The shammas of the White Shul in Far Rockaway announced at shachris on Monday that some of the people collecting money in the lobby were missionaries.
I would say KEEP the bochurim (and maidlach) away! The best place they can be to prevent them from falling into the hands of missionaries is in yeshivah. Granted, it’s not the same safe haven it was in past doros, but it’s safer than meeting missionaries face to face.
The truth is, I think, that most high-school students are not likely to be in danger from ADULT missionaries they might meet in the street. Many teenagers are in danger because they are unhappy and if exposed to people THEIR OWN AGE who can mislead them into habits that they think will bring them happiness. This is a real danger, though I don’t know how often frum Jewish teens at risk wind up in cults. They more often wind up with drugs and other problems, from what I hear.
In fact, frum Jews, in my opinion, are in little danger when confronted with most adult missionaries. These missionaries are usually armed (verbally or on printed material or websites) with all sorts of arguments to prove their point of view. And the average yeshivah bochur or Bais Yaakov girl won’t even understand what they’re talking about!
Mention “Hoisheya Hanavi” to a yeshivah bochur. Or “Amos,” or “Ovadya,” or any of the lesser spoken-about naviim. They won’t know what you’re talking about! And if a missionary mentions “Obadiah,” or “Hosea,” they’ll immediately assume he’s talking about some christian guy.
And if they quote a pasuk in Nach, this means pretty much nothing to most yeshivah people. They don’t know the pasuk, especially in English!
I think adults should be the ones to confront missionaries, if anyone at all.
i have the perfct seloution, since the jews for je…. are known to be very pro Israel, lets call in the niturei karta and they can make a demostration and…………
neaaah !!!
never mind, i forgot that the NK wants us all to be muslims……
I THINK IT IS THE JOB OF EACH AND EVERY PERSON TO WATCH HIMSELF AND THE PEOPLE HE KNOWS AND CARES ABOUT. BUT I DO KNOW THAT THESE PEOPLE STUDY ALL DAY TO GO OUT AND CATCH YOU IN THE FEW THINGS YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWERS FOR SO UNLESS YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO REALLY KNOWS WHAT THESE DOM GUYS DONT WANT TO HEAR YOU SHOULDNT APPROACH THEM UNLESS YOU HAVE A BIG ROCK IN YOU HAND
KILL THE MISSIONARIES
KILL THE DOM
DO WHAT IT TAKES TO RID THEM FROM OUR STREETS
Im with mr knish,mr non kolel guy sounds like he is one of the jews for j.He is trying to use yeshivaworld to get to us beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Once again mr knish is right on the money!
to “chulent mit kugel”
Great mind think alike. you must learn in b.m.g.
you sound very intelligent
How can I not defend myself from the stupidities enunciated in the last few postings.
Keep on placing your head in the sand and ignore these toxic people who have been more successful in bringing people over to their side r”l than you have in bringing people over to your side!!!!!!!!!
And you will just sit around and let this happen and 5 years from now you will convene fancy asifas and conventions and lectures and seminars, etc. to decry the children-at-risk, missionary activities, etc. You are always coming in to tackle the problems society faces loooooooong after it has been out there. Pollard has been incarcerated for decades yet the Agoooodah only came out Pesach time to rally people behind it. I can list 10 other projects that the frum community wakes up to after it is too late.
Call me an anti-semite, Knish man and kugel man. Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never harm.
If I am a Jew for J, why then your chulent mit kugel has butter in it.
Beware of nonkolelman!!!!!!!!!!!we should rename him non jewishman! Anybody with a half brain knows sending yeshiva guys out against missionaries isnt a solution. He is just trying to send the yeshiva guys out so he and his rest of jews for jc can try to do some work on them.1st he says sticks and stones can break my bones but ……..Then he sends insults about butter.beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Please others speak up.GET HIM OFF YESHIVA WORLD
Anyone who thinks that the average frum Yid can (or should) DEBATE missionaries never debated a missionary, nor has he ever consulted people with anti-missionary experience or Gedolei Yisroel. I would never expect people like non-kolelman to consult the latter, since their own “vast Torah knowledge,” not to mention the other stuff in their heads, makes them far more qualified than Roshei Yeshiva to understand what Yiddishkeit wants. [Yes, that was meant to be sarcastic.]
As noted, missionaries all well trained. They certainly can be effectively and entertainingly debated — I know someone who spent 2-1/2 doing so at his Shabbos table, amusing his entire family — but the debater neds to be well versed in the issues, a good debater, and quick-thinking. [The person who did it at the table then had private discussions with every one of his children to make sure that they had no unaddressed questions or concerns.]
The best way to battle them is to pro-activley learn. Then teach. I know that this may be a unique thought, but people who do not know how to learn should not be trying to be mekarev people.
So yes, hitting the books is the best antidote and response to missionaries. Turning over their tables is not bad in second place.
NonKollelman,
Count the number of “you’s” in your post. I guess it’s everybody else’s job to save BP, and it’s all about everyone else putting their head in the sand. Oh, and the “frum community” always wakes up too late; I’m assuming you don’t consider yourself one of “them”.
Here’s a way to revise the post, that will elicit less amusement:
“This is really terrible, and I plan to do something about it. I, NonKollelman, refuse to put my head in the sand. I plan to take my vacation days this coming week, and dedicate my time to get out there on 13th avenue to combat these thugs. This is a very serious issue- we are dealing with the destruction of Torah here. It’s high time I got involved at the outset, and not sit around and tackle the problem five years later at a fancy party. I need to wake up before it’s too late.”
Very impressive, NonKollelman. Now that’s what I call responsibility. And a real mentch. Keep it up.
Eliezer,
By the way these fools are not sophisticated at all, they have very limited knowledge. They have prepared ‘arguments’ that you can’t dispute because they are not really facts, they are made up facts based on misinterpertation of scripture. If you ask them ‘Kashas on these facts they just repeat thier position. Let’s not give these brainwashed fools credit they don’t deserve. They prey on depressed, lost , vulnerable teens who would believe anything that would make them feel good. They are very dangerous non-the-less. The Posuk says the best way to guard our children.
‘Ki chizak Brichai Shaarayich, Berach Bonayich B’Kirbaich’.
When your gates are securely locked,your children will find blessing within them.
Leave the Yeshiva Bochurim in the Bais Medrash and give the ‘Fools’ no-one to talk to!!
Knish & cholent
This guy has declared himself as ‘NONKOLLEL’,
But B’H in BMG alone we are gaining more and more Jews for Torah every Z’man so his claim they are doing a better job than we are is plain foolish.
If there are no neshamas on the street, there are no neshamas to steal.
Netzach Yisroel Lo Yishaker!!!
Edited by Site Moderation Panel: (I wonder if in BMG Rav Aron would have spoke like you just did……..)
Editor,
I don’t know what you feel was so out of line. But the bottom line is ,is that someone who takes himself out of the Klal and declares himself not part of the Olam Hatorah will absolutely not be zoche to share in the benifits.
I would challila not try to speak for Reb Aharon ZT”L, but he was known to be very harsh on the people who did not have utmost respect for B’nei Torah, so he may not disagree with my assesment of this persons rights in the zechusim of these people he wants no part in!!
anyone that would label themselves as “non”kollelman demonstrates their disdain for learning Torah be it for learning how to do, learning in order to teach or learning JUST for the sake of learning.
with that said, I think it is wrong to label someone as a practioner of avoda zora (Jew 4 j..) just because they have an anger towards those who do learn and those who seek Da’as Torah (unless you know the person and you know it to be true AND if that was the case, YW should not publish their comments).
May HaShem disrupt the plans of these EVIL missionaries and protect all Jewish people from them.
b/t/w – they are also known for going into nursing homes and hospitals and trying to convert lonely. old and vulnerable people.
Nonkollelman
Sticks and stones… is a christian line, it is untrue in Judaism.
BTW I think your name is disgusting. Just a personal feeling. If your offended, just turn the other…
WHERE IS NON KOLLEL GUY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????
There is no need to panic regarding those missionaries. Just ignore them. And make sure to warn your kids not to talk Talmud-Torah with strangers on the street.
Talking with missionaries of any type is a huge waste of time, trying to argue with them is an even worse waste of time.
I do not know how it is in New York, but here in SF most Jews for Yushka are not halachically Yidden anyway, let alone familiar with Yiddishkeit.
Again pp…lets get a psak from a competent torah authority!
Just ignore them??? They will not go away. my wife encounters them in the nursing home when whe goes to visit the people there. these elderly people are extremely vulnerable. you may not have the ability to debate with these vile people, however, you can visit the home bound, the hospitals and the nursing homes and make sure these people are not being influenced.
The following three segulos, recited in a loud voice, are the best way to deal with missionaries:
Chaptz’em
Shygetz Aross
Schecht’em oon a brooche.
Eliezer is absolutley right! Yeshiva Bochurim are not up to the task even if these people fabricate everything. They are very sly and capable of twisting a young mind. The boys should stick to learning.
MDLEVINE SAYS.
‘anyone that would label themselves as “non”kollelman demonstrates their disdain for learning Torah ……
Thats a bit far fetched, dont you think? Many who are not in Kollel have legitimate reasons. Maybe they have limited capacity in that field and prefer to use their time at what they are indeed good at. Maybe there are parnosoh issues or they could be ina ‘yissacher zevulan’ situation. Besides, this is acover name and if everyone were to be judged according to their pseudonym, it would be pretty pathetic!
seems like they were on Ocean Pkwy this morning with large signs in Yiddish.
nameless – nonkollelman was not randomly assigned to be his cover-name – you choose nameless for your reasons of not wanting to reveal too much of yourself and I choose mine b/c I do not care if people figure out who I am (my Rav told me he saw a posting and asked if it was me and I told him that if he ever sees a post of mine that he thinks is incoorect in haskofa, he should advise me)
non-kollelman choose his alias b/c it represent his proudness in not being affiliated with a kollel. read many of his past posts knocking kollel life, and those that do learn in a kollel – not to mention his disdain for recognized Gedolim (I am not going back to previous posts to cut and paste them here – you can search for yourself). if he was in a ‘yissacher zevulan’ situation, he would be EVERY BIT AS MUCH of a Kollem man as the one he supports and he would NEVER run away from it.
There are many ways to idetify yourself without making statement, or by making positive ones. Most try to identify themselves by what they are not ahat they are not. It is very possible to be a true ben torah even if not in kollel. Even so, there is a big difference between someone who is not a kollel man and someone who is a “nonkollelman”. many write what they are proud of such as being a member of KAJ Washingto Heights and keeping to Torah im Derech Eretz, Zionflag is clearly proud of reliious zionism, etc. When someone is proud of NOT being someone who spends his day learning, that leads us to believe that it is not just that he is being osef digano.
For those looking for a psak from a competent torah authority, I would venture to say that this that the Roshei Yeshiva aren’t sending the boys out is exactly that!
By bashing our fellow yidden (such as nonkollel) we are not doing frum Jews any service. You can disagree with his ideas but PLEASE don’t call a yid names.
MDLEVINE,
If you say he posted snide remarks about Gedolim is one thing, but to determine that he has a disdain for Torah based on his cover name is something I disagree with empathetically!
ok – fine, we’ve disagreed before. probably will again. Have a wonderful Shabbos!
MD,
re-‘Yissacher Zevulan’
I beg to differ with your logic there as well and here’s why:
An arrangement like that is a two-way zechus! The one who provides materially should be as acknowledged as the one who provides spiritually. So if that’s the case he can PROUDLY claim that he is the NONkolleman(implying that he is the monetary partner) the same way the other guy can claim he IS the Kollelman without either one denigrating the other.
Had someone logged in on the name KOLLEMAN, would that indicate that he is mocking those who are not in Kollel,? and if that were his intention, he’s just as bad. Its a two-way street!
Have a gut voch,
Esti
nameless, why must you always take the left-wing view of every issue? regarding the perverts, zionists, torah-mockers, etc?
Are you really that way out in left field?
Esti – (formerly known as nameless) – perhaps you are better at giving the benefit of the doubt than I am, hoever, I stand by my position that the monetary guy is every much of a kollel man as the one sitting and learning.
getting back on track with the thread – what do you propsose that we do to counter the missionaries?
MD,
Well, lol, for the sake of this site, it remains nameless!
If you accept the fact that the monetary guy is as much of akollel guy as the one learning, you gotta respect those who chose to go out and make a living in order to earn themoney(and the zechus) to be able to financially support yeshivas and other causes!
As far as what to do about the missionaries, well its a tough call! I think to instill a solid Torahdike education at home will certainly help our youth keep their emunah and bitochon in tact and hopefully they will never be pursuaded to stray(thats how I feel)
nameless – formerly known as E…)
it is good what you say, however, I think we need to go one step further. there are websites (I know that links do not get published, but a search on Tovia Singer or outreach Judaism or other anti-missionary sites can help prepare arguments.
as I mentioned previously, they target lonely, elderly people in hospitals and in nursing homes, we need to have a few well prepared arguments to discredit them.
Moe,
I am not taking the ‘left wing’ approach at all! In this case, I am just giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. I despise everything you mentioned but I dont think you can label someonea Torah Mocker based ona cover name he uses for the sake of a discussion on line, thats all!
As far as the perverts, I think I made it crystal clear that ‘their kind’ makes me sick, however I am not sure that its not a question of orientation!.
btw, NONKOLLElMAN posted something quite ‘right’ on a blog about the shame parade on the first page….so you might want to ‘back peddle ‘ on how you summed him up as a Torah mocker…
Read my posts, dont just skim through them…
ps;
As far as zIONISM IS CONCERNED, after all is said and done, I STILL prefer the State of Israel to be run by Jews than by Arabs, as long as we are in Golus, its the better choice, dont you think?