The Rabbinic leadership of the National Council of Young Israel has endorsed a New York State protocol establishing guidelines regarding the circumcision practice of oral suctioning known as metzitzah b’peh (“MBP”).
The protocol, which was first signed last June, represented an unprecedented collaboration of governmental and religious leaders, led by then-New York State Department of Health Commissioner Antonia C. Novello, M.D., M.P.H. Since then, rabbinic leaders throughout the State have added their signatures to the protocol.
The endorsement by Rabbi Peretz Steinberg, shilta, the Yoshev Rosh/Chairman of Young Israel’s Vaad Halacha, adds the approval of one of the largest Orthodox Jewish organizations in the country to the protocol which has already been endorsed by the Central Rabbinical Congress of the United States and Canada, Rabbi Feivel Cohen, Rabbi Hillel David, leaders of Kosho, Satmar, Skver, Belz, Bobov, Pupa and Vien, and the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of Agudath Israel of America.
The protocol was also endorsed by many gedolei Eretz Yisroel, including Harav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, Harav Aharon Leib Steinman and Harav Chaim Kanievsky, shlita.
“Young Israel is proud to add its endorsement to this protocol,” said Shlomo Z. Mostofsky, its National President. “It has the approval of some of today’s foremost public health experts, while safeguarding religious practices that have been followed for thousands of years.”
At the signing last June, Commissioner Novello called the day “historic,” saying that “we have reached an agreement that addresses two fundamental pillars of our civic life: the protection of public health and the preservation of religious freedom.”
The State protocol outlines best practices to be instituted before, during and after ritual Jewish circumcision involving MBP. This collaborative effort sprung from concerns expressed by some in the public health arena and the media after several neonatal herpes simplex virus 1 (HSV-1) cases were reported by the New York City Health Department. HSV-1, commonly known as cold sores, affects over 70% of the population and is harmless for adults, but can be serious, even fatal, for infants.
The protocol also establishes for the first time what steps would be taken by health authorities and community members in the event of any future incidence of neonatal HSV-1 following MBP. The New York State Public Health Council unanimously approved the protocol, as did all of the health commissioners throughout the state outside of New York City.
The members of the Public Health Council acknowledged the lengths to which both sides sought expert input into the development of these guidelines, and praised the spirit of cooperation that permeated the discussions leading up to the original signing of the protocol by health professionals and rabbinic leaders.
“This protocol has broad-based support among rabbinic leaders and public health professionals,” said Mr. Mostofsky. “We are grateful to those who have promulgated it.”
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22 Responses
What are the best practices?
This is wonderful development.
Does this signify a move to the right for Young Israel, or is it that the Young Israel/YU community is beginning to understand how important MBP is to keeping our mesora?
Either way it is good news.
The better news would be is we could get Thomas Frieden, Blomberg’s Health Commissioner to sign it.
This was signed to prevent the government from interfering with and regulating Bris Milah.
What practice have the leaders signed on to?? Have they quietly outlawed direct MBP which was the whole outcry was about. Have we signed away our Mesorah for direct MBP ?? All questions not answered by this article and need to be addressed so the genereal population can know what the truth is and can comment according. ie. celebrate with the signers or cry out to H”B that our leaders have sold us out?
Asking “have we signed away our mesorah for direct MBP?” is like asking “have we signed away our mesorah for hakozas dam?” If you define mesorah to include any medical procedure that was done before 20th Century medical advances, then I hope you like klappen oif bankes.
jews unified…. what a kiddush hashem!!!!
For those that are interested. I think that this is what they signed on.
http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/herpes/newborns/circumcision_protocol.htm
Can someone tell me where the Gemara says anything about peh? If there is a mesorah, it is M, not MBP. It happens to be that the technology to make sterile glass or rubber tubes was not available at the time of the Gemara. (In fact, there was no rubber at all.)
To Vladimir:
You write, “It happens to be that the technology to make sterile glass or rubber tubes was not available at the time of the Gemora. (In fact, there was no rubber at all.)”
How do you know? I presume because no sterile glass or rubber tubes from the times of the Gemora have been found. May I therefore suggest that wireless communication must have been around at that time, since we have not found any corded phones of that era. Rather as Chazal teach us, “Not seeing, is no proof.”
They could grind a lens to focus accurately on the t’chum Shabbos. Why could they not harness the rubber from the rubber tree? They could perform “C” sections (yotzeh dofen), why couldn’t they sterilize glass?
All chochmos were revealed at Sinai. Adam understood the essence of the entire creation. This knowledge was handed down to Noach, to Shem, to the Avos, etc.
Shuali:
The rubber tree is native to the New World, and was first discovered by Spanish explorers in the 16th Century C.E. So that’s why Chazal couldn’t harness the rubber from the rubber tree. Although, of course, they might have built a jet airplane and flown to South America, since all chochmos were revealed at Sinai. Just because we don’t see any jet airplanes from that era is no proof they didn’t exist. In fact, we must assume that they did exist. If, as you posit, Chazal necessarily knew how to build them, then they would have been mechuyav to do so, for use in matters of hatzolas nefoshos when time is of the essence. Strange that they still seem to have chosen to ride on donkeys and camels. Yet, it is true, not seeing is no proof. (Indeed, using your logic, we have no proof that the Metzitzah discussed in the Gemara did NOT involve rubber or glass tubes.)
Vladmir,
There are 2 tshuvot on Binyan Tzion on MBP Davka. They will answer all your questions.
Moshe Fox,
If read a few hundred pages on neonatal Herpes papers by Drs. Whitley, Kimberlin, Nahamias, Brown, Yeager, Arvin, et al. You’ll find that all the cases in the 3 articles that the NYC DoH rely on, are classic cases of maternally transmitted herpes.
1)Seronegative mother-highest risk group.
2)Timing- up two 4 weeks typically 16-19 days from birth for CNS herpes, 3)HSV-1 72% prevalence in Tel Aviv. Study by Samara Z. Published in Sexually Transmitted Diseases Nov 2003 pp7-16. The US figures for HSV published in Tendler’s Aug 2004 Pediatrics paper are a smoke screen for the 7 of 8 cases in Israel. The two previous papers on the subject use the same false information ignoring 30 year of research on neonatal Herpes.
This all started when the moser Tendler went to the city al lo davar. For an example of what an unashamed liars these people are, look at his follow- up article in the February 2005 Issue of the Israeli Medical Association’s journal Harefuah. Click on full text. On page 129 of the Hebrew version fig.3 It says cherem of the rabbanei yerushalayim neged metzitzah b’peh. If you read the cherem it says the exact opposite. For more information read: Tendler vs. Tendler
>Vladimir Says:
>May 2nd, 2007 at 2:54 pm
>Asking “have we signed away our mesorah for direct MBP?” is like >asking “have we signed away our mesorah for hakozas dam?”
Vladimir
Chazal were not stupid. If everyone that had hakazas hadam died, they would stop it immediately. Eleh mai? It worked. That why doctors today still use leeches. Here is a link to the National Institute of health (pubmed.gov) and a few thousand articles on the use of medicinal leeches. If you want to appreciate gadlus haboray as Chazal did, read up on the leeches. Their saliva contains an antiseptic as well as anthesia. They have three jaws that make a perfectly round hole. When applied to a gangrenous or infected wound, they eat only the infected material. They fress until until they’re full and they climb out by themselves.
The next time you want to criticize Chazal, remember
אנו כחמורים ולא כחמורו של רבי חנינא בן דוסא ושל רבי פנחס בן יאיר אלא כשאר חמורים
The Amora’im said that. You can also use the Pubmed database to read up on neonatal herpes.
shuali Says:
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:28 pm
“All chochmos were revealed at Sinai. Adam understood the essence of the entire creation. This knowledge was handed down to Noach, to Shem, to the Avos, etc.”
At what point were all these things forgotten, then? From your perspective, every discovery that has been made since Chazal’s times is only possible because the “chochmo” was lost. Was there sudden amnesia experienced by the entire world the moment we entered the Middle Ages, combined with the destruction of all artifacts and records of this knowledge? Amazing that not even one reference was left over – in fact “they” even left bogus clues as to what people believed in those days just to mislead us!
The mesorah is bpeh
No if and or buts. That is just the historical fact until approx 200 years ago.
There was substitutes for rubber or plastic (what do you think “kishke” means? It is not the plastic that holds the spiced dough together but the intestine of an animal!! -replaced today by plastic! ).
who cares. why does everyone have to agrue like babies. “al titosh torah imecha” . Our custom for many many generations is metziza bapeh.
finished , end of story
To bupkiss:
See Maseches Megilah 3a, 18a and Succah 44a. Apparently Chazal had no problem with your “amnesia theory” I do not know what “forgot” means or how it happened, but forget they did
Hey Moshe Fox:
The fact remains that “Tendler” is a LIER.
He LIED repetedly when he claimed that that he never called the health dept. on Rav Fisher the Mohel – when it was RECORDED on MP3.
What’s your answer to that?
He LIED when he tried to defend himself in the Yated newspaper letter.
This is not Lashon hara, but important information which people must know.
STAY AWAY FROM TENDLER(S)…….
VEHAMAYVIN YAVIN.
When did the forgetting happen? Obviously, by the time of Rashi z”l, asher mipihu anu chayim, since Rashi says that the air one inhales goes directly to the heart. So during the Geonim? L’shitascha, how could you trust our mesorah when so much of it was so quickly forgotten?
In fact, let’s get this clear, when people say that Chazal knew science, does that refer to tannaim only? Also amoraim? What about the geonim? Rishonim? Early achronim? Later achronim? When did it stop?
Matzah101,
I do not appreciate your accusing me of criticizing Chazal. I have never done so, and would not do so. Can we please stop assuming that anyone who believes that Chazal did not have a perfect understanding of modern science (or even a rudimentary understanding) are somehow being “critical?” How could they be criticized for not knowing things that it has taken humanity almost 6,000 years to uncover?
Yosher,
Are you kidding me? A piece of the “kishke” in the exact narrow size that would be necessary to do metzitzah? Where would you find that? And how unsterile is that? Do you know what is IN the animal’s kishkes? And that would be a substitute for a sterile tube?
Vladmir – it is a belief amongst certain segments of the frum world that chazal’s words are to be accepted as final authority for all things, including science. These people believe that the sun orbits the earth. I think that with this in mind the two sides of this argument are clear.
To bupkiss’ regarding his comments to Vladimir.
bupkiss writes: “it is a belief amongst certain segments of the frum world that chazal’s words are to be accepted as final authority for all things, including science. These people believe that the sun orbits the earth. I think that with this in mind the two sides of this argument are clear.”
bupkiss — anyone well versed in SCIENCE, and the theory of relativity, knows well, that no science can determine if the sun orbits the earth or if the earth orbits the sun. Chazal say “nir’in divrei umos ha’olam which some rishonim understand to mean the their works APPEAR to be true (from our relative perspective), but they are not indeed true, as only HaShem’s knowledge of the world He created and revealed to us through Chazal can be free from all relativity.
I think — to quote your own closing words — that with this in mind the two sides of this argument are clear.
shuali – now that probably no one else is looking at this thread, will you confirm my suspicions? Are you a Lubavitcher? Because you certainly are no scientist.
I have really enjoyed this thread. However, I am sorry to disappoint you but I am absolutely not a Lubavitcher. I do indeed hold degrees in science, taught sciences for approximately 7 years, and served as a principal on both the High School and Elementary levels. I have held teaching licenses in three states and at one time did extensive research in the area of genetics. My findings were to be presented to that state’s board of something, but I chose Shabbos over fame.
I twice had the chance to discuss the topic of exactly who or what is at the center of the universe with one of the greatest mathematicians today — one who is very well versed in both science and physics as well. He confirmed what was stated above as far as relativity is concerned.
By definition, science is limited by the rules scientists have made for their method of gathering knowledge. Understandable, but limited none-the-less. How many times have their methods “proven” something beyond doubt only to have the textbooks re-written a decade later?
Let’s keep in touch.