22 Responses

1. May all our kashrus organizations be united in a no-tolerance policy for sfeikus and resistance to their authority. We and our families are relying on them! They can’t be squeamish about reporting sfeikus anymore. (What does “violated kashrus policies numerous times” mean????)

   It is such a bizayon how much cynicism the frum olam has about the kashrus industry! We are talking about an industry with rabbanim at its head. This is why it can’t be run like a regular business! We want high standards; not good terms with food-service proprietors. And whoever is responsible for hiring the non-rabbinical employees in the kashrus field has to be MUCH MORE careful about hiring ERLICH and SOLID bnei Torah. If you have to offer more of a salary to get quality people, so be it. isn’t kashrus important enough to be paid as a choshuve profession??

   Edited by Site Moderation Panel

2. We wouldn’t be so cynical if Poland Spring water didn’t have the OU.

3. That is, untill the Hasgocho cost is passed on to the consumer and then everyone says “why is kosher food so expensive”?

4. It is such a bizayon how much cynicism the frum olam has about the kashrus industry! We are talking about an industry with rabbanim at its head. This is why it can’t be run like a regular business! We want high standards; not good terms with food-service proprietors. And whoever is responsible for hiring the non-rabbinical employees in the kashrus field has to be MUCH MORE careful about hiring ERLICH and SOLID bnei Torah. If you have to offer more of a salary to get quality people, so be it. isn’t kashrus important enough to be paid as a choshuve profession??

   WHAT HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH HAVING RABBANIM AT ITS HEAD – ISNT this (YOUR SUGGESTED METHOD) THE WAY TO RUN ANY EHLICHE BUSINESS???

5. SHIKKER you must be SHIKKER. Who do you think pays for the cost of Hasgocho. For alot of produts(like Poland Spring water) the cost is negligble or the company absorbs the cost to increase their market(most probably big companies or non-jewish owned). When you bye a “heimeshe product” you are paying for the Hasgocho and then some.

6. Water actually can have kashrus concerns due to the possibility of it having been distilled from a non-kosher, dairy or chometz source. This is actually common for water used as an ingredient. For an elaboration of this issue listen to the speech by Rabbi Juravel titled Red Flag Ingredients from Ask OU on the OU Radio website.

7. What is non-kosher, dairy or chometz source for pure water? I would listen to that shiur – if it wasnt given by the people who give a hashgocho to water.

8. Baki,

   As I was reading your post, I said to myself, “Self, he must be talking about the speech Rabbi Juravel gave before Pesach!”

   Looks like I was right. However, after investigating the matter further, the situation he was talking about was an individual situation which is why a big deal wasnt made about it (yet).

   ML

9. Karl kabel haemes mimi sheomro. Water can be distilled from ANY liquid. The water that is extracted when concentrating things such as condensed chicken soup is not wasted but used for other products as it is chemicaly the purest water possible. Water used in a pasteurizer will also be used in other products. If the water itself is pasteurized that can also be an issue. I am not refering his speech before Pesach but the one located where I mentioned. It may have been mentioned in other speeches as well. In the one that I an refering to he was discussing water as an ingredient. This does not seem to be done for drinking water but that can change at any time. Therefore, there is a point in supervised water.

10. can you upload the original letter from Hisachdus? I hear that on the Lashon Kodesh letter the date is א אייר and on the English letter the date is Aplil 17 (which is 2 days earlier then the date on the Lashon Kodesh letter)!!!

11. To Karl:

    You write: What is non-kosher, dairy or chometz source for pure water? I would listen to that shiur – if it wasn’t given by the people who give a hashgocho to water.

    May I infer from your comment that you would not listen to the dentist’s opinion about your teeth, or your pediatrician’s opinion about your child?

12. This is so sad to read.
    I am in the catering end of the food industry. We commonly do parties and events in people’s homes and shules. It always happens that a guest comes over to me and asks, “What’s HE doing here?” most of the time it’s not even the host (who has to pay for the Mashgiach to be there). There is such a negative perception of what a Mashgiach does and what he stands for. When the health inspector comes you do, what they say goes or they close you down! There is not arguing with them. But everyone feels free to argue with the Mashgiach. Its people like this that are the direct cause of what happen in Monsey. You don’t allow the hashgoco organization to do their job and you as the consumer can get burnt by allowing a potential non-yeray shamayim to decide what’s kosher enough. Then everyone yells “oy vey!! How could this hashgoco/mashgiach allow this to happen!!!???”
    I pay my Mashgiach $22.50/hr. An average wedding can cost $7000-12000 and the Mashgiach fee is about $125-200 I don’t think thats too much money.

    The bottom line is everyone is looking to blame someone else for something and they don’t care what or who gets pushed to the wayside.

13. It sounds like from the letter it was going on for a long time .WHAT TO SO LONG ???????
    This is not the first time . WAKE UP!!!!!!!!
    I always something was funny that the plant was out of the neighbourhood . Is there any one to make sur no baking is done on shabbos ? Who har the key . Is this Monsey all over again?. Look at THE OHR HACHIAM AT THE IN PARSHAS SHENINI

14. yosher: I meant about rabbanim that bnei Torah have a cynical attitude about the kashrus insudsrty and this should never be — it’s an embarrassment to our rabbanim. And it would never be if there’s no wiggle-room on the standards set by the rav hamachshir. Too many second-chances, etc. Is this an unpopular concept?? Just trying to say I’d rather have fewer products with hashgocha, all of which are 100% ok than have oodles of bidiaved certified things, and it’d put an end to the grumblings of bakiim. (and P.S., about the higher price: SO??????? Buy Hashem’s delicious fresh vegetables and boil them at home if you can’t buy them in a can — they taste better, are cheaper, and healthier for your mishpacha.)

15. Looks like another example where R. Yudel Shain was right a loooong time ago. He’s been raising a ruckus & kvetching about Mezonos Maven for years. But, yet again, nobody was listening.

16. do they do private labeling for other brands too?

    which we should be aware of?

17. I think the point is that a Chashuva Hashgocha like the CRC is willing to remove it’s supervision says a lot for CRC and the Oilam who is demanding fidelity to Halacha. Kol Ha’Kavod!

18. IT IS A TRAVESTY THAT AFTER THE MAYSA WITH THE GOYIM HAVING THE KEYS AND OPENING ON SHABBOS BEFORE THE ZMAN (whether they were just changing their clothes getting ready to work or not – is not the case)IT JUST DOES NOT MAKE SENSE THAT THERE WOULD BE RULES THAT THE MASHGICHIM WERE NOT ABLE TO BE SPOKEN TO OR THAT THEY HAD THEIR HANDS TIED IN SOME WAY. ALSO ANY ESTABLISHMENT THAT HIDES A SINGLE MASHEHU, SHOULD BE UNDER A FULL INSPECTION, SO THAT THE BOSSES OF THESE ESTABLISHMENTS KNOW THAT WHEN IT COMES TO KASHRUS NOTHING WILL STAND IN THE WAY .
    WE PAY A LARGER PRICE FOR KOSHER WHEN IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO. LOOK AT ALL THE KOSHER PRODUCTS OUT THERE THAT HAVE AN O-U OR KOF-K AND THE PRODUCTS DO NOT COST MORE BECAUSE OF HAVING A HASGOCHA.
    ENOUGH OF FINDING OUT TOO LATE THAT THE OWNER OF THE ESTABLISHMENT DID THIS OR THAT WRONG AND IN THE INTERIM WE THE CONSUMERS ARE THE ONES WHO LOSE OUT.

19. For all of you wonder why POLAND SPRINGS or any other DRINKING Water needs hasgocho, the anser is very simple. The Water Companies do not take the water out of the ground and put thiem in the bottles, and ship the n to you. No, Government reg’s don’t allow that. ALL Bottled water is treated the same way good old tap water is; it is passed through ultra-violet light, and it is chlorinated. Now, where does the chlorined come from? how is it made? Does the water company also pasteurize (cook) the water as an additional sterilization process? And what else are they puting through the filtration pipes. Do they bottle teife soda in the same plant?

    Since all of the Bukiyim on Kashrus give Hasgocho, if one won’t listen to a shiur from them, then one will never listen to a shiur on Kashrus- Halacha L’mayseh.

    BTW_ There is much too much Loshon Hora in all of your blogs- Imagine if this weren’t a YESHIVA SITE!!!

20. mezones maven always had shailes going back years ago when they were caught opening the place and begining to work before shevous
    was over so they were caught being mechalel yom tov and the goyim did not have any mashgichim while they were working.
    the hashgach business stinks.

21. I find it interesting how we go from Mezonos Maven (MM) to the debate about the halachic validity of water needing a kashrus endorsement or not. Topic at hand, MM, in their desire to maximize profits, decided to take the “best” hashgachah, not one, but TWO organizations. both at different ends of the Spectrum. The Sachdus, AKA CRC is acceptable by the frummest of the frum, in any take out lunchonette,grocery, in the country.Satmars, Bobov, Skever,Belz, well, you get the idea, not one would question the CRC. They covered their bases with the frummest of the frum Hashgacha, with the CRC. They then went, and said hey, wait a minute, let’s hit the “secular” world of Judaism as well,the people who are not familiar with what the CRC represents, or what it is…. the “(Modern) Orthodox( and no, I’m not implying that the “Modern Orthodox, aka Young Israel, types) are any less observant, G-D Forbid, than their counterparts, that certainly would not rely on the OK, but when seeing the CRC immediately ask no further questions. MM Did this “double dipping” of TWO kashrut certifying agencies,strictly for financail reasons. NOT because they wanted the frum world to see they were above board with the hashgacha, but, because, from a business viewpoint, it was the “smart” thing to do.For MM to go and loose not one, but BOTH certifying agencies at the same time, speaks vlumes in not only the Chasidic world, but, the “modern Orthodox” , religious worlkd as well. There’s an old saying that goes ” Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”. Instead of debating what it was that prompted this immediate decision, after a year of problems( workers in the place on Shabbis), I find it incomprehensible that both these organizations did nothing at that time, to take away their Certification, pending a “grace” period, where they could watch the comings and goings, and see if they had access to all aspects of the MM establishment
    But, no, they overlooked this,and, let bygones be bygones……” no no no, bad boy, don’t let this happen again, or we’ll really be a problem for you” Well, I suspect, the MM people decided that being a “bad boy, and getting a slap in the face, wasn’t so bad after all, and, hey, what’s so bad, we’re making the same profits from the frum, and also anyone who recognizes either hashgachah. So, life continued, for a year, until finally someone at these agencies, for whatever the reasons were( monetary, in that they did not have a mashgiach temidi at the MM place hired by MM, business yet?)
    As bad as the MM attitude might be, I wonder just how far, ( for financial reasons)a certifying agency is willing to turn the other cheek? To me, it’s a business not only on MM’s part, but the kashrut agencies as well. Oh, in case no one knows, The OU IMMEDIATELY took on the MM as a client. Doesn’t anyone find it strange, that while not one, BUT TWO agencies withdraw their certification, there’s always another agency, willing to take on a new client? Hmmmm, something stinks not only at MM, but with kashrut agencies as well.
    Welcome to the world of the Almighty dollar, B”H
    oh, btw, on the topic of kosher water or not kosher water, let me know when I need to pay for a certification for the air we breather, I mean, until now, the air was free, any kashrut agency out there have a good idea of certifying the air? Perhaps there are particles in the air, that are triefe and we are inhaling it into our bodies? And, yes, if you get the idea I’m a bit cynical about these kashrut agencies, you’re right. Money goes a long long way. Long enough to overlook a lot of indiscretions by companies paying a kashrut agencies bills, so, MM is not the only one to blame here, not in the least

22. I have a question to ask. How can it be that two people study the same Mesechta thoroughly, put in the same effort and hours and remember it equally well, yet, in Olam Haboh, one is cheerfully greeted by the Bais Din Shel Ma’alah, and the second is frighteningly frowned upon?
    The Chofetz Chaim (Chovos Hashemira, Chapter 7) writes that the disparity may be based solely upon the Loshon Hora spoken by the latter. The Torah of the one who is careful with his speech glistens and gleams from afar, while the Loshon Hora speaker smothers the light of his Torah with the Tumah which leaves his lips.

    Which of these two are you?

    Where do you come off making invalidated statements…

    Actually, the above commentary does not apply to you…this is not Loshon Hora…this is not Rechilus…this is a blatant lie

    Think about what you are doing… think about the lies you are perpetuating and spreading.

    As for the statement that there is a video of the bakery in operation on Shabbos…how come no one has ever seen it?

    Mezonos Maven respectfully parted ways with the OK…and the OK went ballistic…

    There was never an issue with Mashgichim…as a matter of fact, it was the Mashgiach who opened the bakery Motzoei Pesach…are you saying the Mashigiach came during Yom Tov to open the doors?

    This is all pure and unadulterated rubbish…and it is based on the simple premise of Sin’as Chinom.

    And you wonder where Moshiach is?