Dear YWN,
So now that we sobered up its time to reflect on what happened this Purim.
As I decide on which method is best to dispose of all the food on my table, I can’t help notice all the “Purim themes” that I need to toss into the garbage. The boxes, cases, ribbons, poems, vases, cookbooks all to be trashed, not even paying any attention into the effort that went into preparing these “holy” pieces of art. It’s become so normal, and we are so immune to this insanity, that anything less is considered sub‐standard. My grandmother gave me an orange and a piece of homemade cake, and that’s what she gave her neighbors 50 years ago as well. But if you try that with your neighbor, forget about marrying off your kids any time soon. I see people that undoubtedly are living off public assistance, but are delivering Shaloch Monas to their mother‐ laws, draped with paraphernalia and with a theme demonstrating total nonsense, all so that they are up to par with the other sister and sister in‐laws in the family.
Imagine for a minute that 30,000 families in Boro Park would choose to pass on the insanity, and each family would instead donate $150 to a communal fund. That’s $4,500,000 that can be put to good use. We can have a subsidized wedding hall where all our children’s Rebbeim can make a wedding for close to nothing. Or maybe, a fund to help Rebbeim and teachers that are several months behind on their salaries, pay their bills.
But who can head a campaign like this? The answer is probably no one, but history has shown that these types of prohibitions can work. Take for example the R’ Moshe Isserlish (the Rama of the Shilchun Aruch). He felt that fur coats being worn by women were causing animosity amongst the non Jewish poor peasants and provoking anti Semitism. He prohibited women from wearing these coats, and people listened. But times have changed. We are smarter than our Rabbis. We know what’s best for us, and the key is to “Live and let live”.
I couldn’t help notice all the ads in the Jewish newspapers warning everyone about the dangers of drinking on Purim. I am sure that everyone reads these warnings with awe and trepidation. I am sure that the success of these ads in previous years prompted these organizations to continue spending money on full page color ads in various newspapers.
Well, here is my story. I pulled up to a gas station and beside me, a group of yeshiva boys pulled up as well. They were so stoned that they made an Irish pub on New Year’s look like a Kindergarten birthday party. They were screaming, vomiting, and one guy exposed himself and went to the bathroom right there in front of everyone.
What a Kiddush Hashem.
At night, I went to daven maariv at Shomer Shabbos and was attacked by some drunken boys, pelted with snow balls, and heckled. Had I been a goy, I probably would have put those kids in the hospital for 2 months. I guess the ads didn’t work.
If the Yeshivas had guts, they would warn their student’s days before Purim, and threaten to suspend any boy found stoned drunk on Purim. The embarrassment of not being able to attend yeshiva would undoubtedly put the fear of g‐d in most boys, and after a few examples have been set, the problem would d probably disappear. But that would never work because the first boy that would have to be suspended would be the son of a wealthy supporter of the Yeshiva. OK, scratch that idea.
In my opinion, Purim has spiraled into something unforeseen by Chazal, and only mirrors what society at large has evolved into.
Although I have proposed some ideas mitigating some of the problems, the true answer lies within ourselves. We need to decide not to ride the tide, but to do what’s right. If on our own we change ourselves, pray to G‐d for guidance and protection, and show our children, early on, the love and direction they need, we can believe that the Ribono Shel olanm will do the rest.
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41 Responses
WHAT DO YOU MEAN”UNFORSEEN BY CHAZaL” ?
people choose to act badly,there has always been a choice to do good or bad. adullts need to train their children,and control themselves. to issue takanas will not acclomplish anything
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You forgot to mention the amount of junk food that people get.
I have 3 full boxes of laffy taffy’s and utter garbage.
My kids need to peeled off the ceilings from the amount of sugar they have eaten this week.
amazing letter!
Bimchilas Kvodcha: I have attended many Irish pub’s on New Year’s…
Please don’t give them a bad name.
Take for example the R’ Moshe Isserlish (the Rama of the Shilchun Aruch). He felt that fur coats being worn by women were causing animosity amongst the non Jewish poor peasants and provoking anti Semitism. He prohibited women from wearing these coats, and people listened. But times have changed. We are smarter than our Rabbis. We know what’s best for us, and the key is to “Live and let live”.
No… I think it’s more that circumstances have changed. Not provoking your non-Jewish neighbors back then often meant the difference between life and death for everyone in your community. Not listening to a wedding takanah doesn’t have the same dire circumstances.
The Wolf
You begin your article with “So now that we sobered up its time to reflect on what happened this Purim.” After this statement you go on to critique peoples spending habits. However, by the fact you said “we” in your first statement, it insinuates you drank as well. Aside from the fact that getting over the top drunk is reprehensible, which you obviously did as well because it took you so long to get sobered up as you so boldly claimed, alcohol is prohibitively expensive. I think it is much more admirable to spend on mishloach manos than to spend on alcohol, which has much more detriment than than benefit. Should you not spend an extra ten dollars or even thirty to make your children or wife happy? Did anyone else in your family benefit from alcohol use? Please, before you write such an erroneous article, filled with selfish motive, look in the mirror.
Here is my Purim madness.
A group comes collecting to my home stoned like chayos, and leaves one boy vomiting in my bathroom while they get in their car and disappear at 11:30 at night.
The boy was so sick, he had no ID on him, and just wanted to lie down on my couch “for a few minutes”.
Make a long story short, this 17 year old spent the night asleep on my couch.
He told me his name when he woke up Purim morning. I called his parents, who didn’t seem concerned in the least bit.
This happens again, and I call the cops.
Know what we gave this year for shalach manos?
N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
We gave one to our rov, and one to my parents, and one to my in-laws.
This madness must be stopped. People spending money they dont have on this is outrages.
A neighbor who is out of a job and has been bailed out by myself personally 3 times sent us this huge shalach manos as a “thank you”.
He must have spent 100 bucks on it.
Simply insane.
How about the groups that broke my dining-room table, vomited on my couch, and frightened my children to death?
Not to mention the one group which cursed my husband with vulgar language for “only” giving them a $100 check (when in previous year gave them $360)?
We have decided to never allow anyone collect in our home again on Purim.
People should follow suit, and then, maybe then, the Mosdos will take action.
Hit them in the pockets.
The first thing that has to go is the LIMOUSINES. I can’t motivate myself to pull out even one cent and contribute to the foolishness of this waste of momon hekdesh. $1000 a night is the going rate for the fancier ones, but even $500 is unaccetpable. I’m not old fashioned – just realistic (and still have little ones at home if this hints to my age group). I am all for supporting mosdos but not when they condone and actually hire multiple limos to encourage aggresive collection practices. Furthermore, what goes on INSIDE these limos is where the problem really lies. Drinking!! The limo drivers couldn’t care less, they’re NOT the ones supplying the alcohol and therefore have zero liability. The other solution would be for yeshivos to forwarn and ACTUALLY EXPELL any talmid who gets “plastered” on Purim. NO EXCEPTIONS!! Sadly, yeshiva administrators (in all capacities) have no backbone and are intimidated by the mighty buck. Will it take a tragedy to wake them up? The chillul when a teenager (or younger) gets wheeled into an ER in a state of unconsciousness, perhaps with alcohol poisoning is just not acceptable. Our front door was open motzai shabbos and a limo roared by, suddenly stopping short a few houses down. Out jumped a group of loud, intoxicated teens, bottles in hand and just barged in. They stomped and shouted (a drunken attempt at a rikud and zemer) Things fell off the shelves and one actually spilled his bottle on the carpet. In summations, the solution is direct education and consequence. Ads are worthless and a complete waste of money.
I hate to tell you Mr.Sober-
I spent less than $100 on my “Theme”- Yea I know it ends up in the garbage, but it makes my wife happy so we do it-
Everyone gets something else out of Purim- You got a bad attitude from Purim, so share it with the world-
Nice
Your first four paragraphs are wonderfully written and are indeed even inspiring. I, and I hope countless others, will take your words to heart.
In the rest of your essay, however, you “expose” yourself much as the fellow you describe.
Unfotunately, much of what you have to say will be ignored because of the agenda you apparently subscribe to.
I see and hear the good points you make, but once you start with “a group of yeshiva boys” and “if the Yeshivas had guts” etc. you cut off your nose to spite your face.
I hope we see beyond that hashkafah and take to heart the good points you raise.
Most – perhaps all – of the “yeshiva families” who sent us mishloach manos this year, certainly cut back on the goodies. It was certainly because they listen to their leaders’ daas Torah.
In the times of CHaZa”L as well there were those who chose to act outside the Ratzon HaShem v’yiray’av. However, then they were not referred to as Yeshiva Boys, but rather by a different name . . . sinners.
We must love them. We must reach out to them. We must include them. We must help them. But we must understand that they are not yeshiva boys if they act the way you describe.
Yeshivish was defined by one of our Gedolei Torah as being someone who strives for improvement. Where he goes to school or how he dresses does not define him. We cannot let their parents’ choice of school and their behavior – resulting from any combination of factors (social, economic, educ(ional, emotional, psycological, etc.) Justify in any way our own lackings.
So let’s take your advice, but let’s also not point fingers.
Your wrong about this.
“Imagine for a minute that 30,000 families in Boro Park would choose to pass on the insanity, and each family would instead donate $150 to a communal fund. That’s $4,500,000 that can be put to good use. We can have a subsidized wedding hall where all our children’s Rebbeim can make a wedding for close to nothing. Or maybe, a fund to help Rebbeim and teachers that are several months behind on their salaries, pay their bills.”
Its the basic capitalisim VS communism argument. I agree about the waiste , but please understand 100s of jewish owned business benefit from this – who in turn benefit other businesses etc…
no such thing as waiting money as long as it stays in the jewish community – your just stimulating the economy
Excellent article. The non-sense has to stop. Especially the drunk boys in the limo, collecting to pay the limo (how much of the money really reaches the mosdos?)
“The embarrassment of not being able to attend yeshiva would undoubtedly put the fear of g‐d in most boys, and after a few examples have been set, the problem would d probably disappear.”
HA! I used to wish I got suspended. Free day off from school!
Embarrassment of not coming to yeshiva for a little while for drinking? What embarrassment? I’d be a hero. Let’s drink to see who can get suspended longer.
The yeshiva in my community is suspending about 10 kids because of Purim activities. Do you really think they won’t drink the next year.
If you are going to put a punishment for doing something, you need to make the punishment not worth the benefits of doing the crime. Getting drunk and having an awesome time with your friends on Purim is an incredible amount of enjoyment. How are you going to combat that? Not with a measly suspension.
I really think the project that was housed in Yeshiva Torah Temmimah this year (I dont know who ran the program or who started it or who was behind it) will go a long way towards curbing a lot of the “wilding” (to borrow a term) that goes on Purim by night. In short, each bachur who stayed in the Bais Medrash and learned for 2 hours on Purim night, was given $250 towards the Tzedaka of their choice. Yes, sponsors had to be found and preparation had to be done in advance of Purim, but close to 200 boys were in the Beis Medrash learning (most a lot longer than 2 hours)instead of riding around in limos vomiting in peoples homes.
In fact, I am already discussing this idea with my own sons Menahel for next Purim. Perhaps the boys themselves can ask people to sponsor their learning. They can reach way more people (even at $18 a sponsor) this way than the dozen homes they get to via limo. More tzedaka, more torah, less craziness.
Is it not true that it is illegal for anyone who is younger than 21 years of age to drink alcoholic beverages? Given that we are supposed to follow the “laws of the land,” how can any religious young man who is not 21 drink alcoholic beverages. Doing so seems to me to be against halacha.
Dr. Yitzchok Levine
All in all a decent post YET, can’t we allow ‘different strokes for different folks’, I personally read the poems, articles, short scripts that come with each Mishloach Manos and find them to be fascinating, creative and humorous.
It might be a good idea to start the “Barter System”, and as one food basket (or candyland) arrives, reshuffle the items and give it to the next person in this way, less waste, calories and money spent.
llevine –
No – it’s illegal for you to give alcohol to someone under 21. A minor can’t get arrested for mere drinking (as opposed to purchasing) as it is not illegal.
I agree that although themes are cute, they are waist of time and money. Nobody really has a chance to read the poems etc. That is why no matter how cute it is, I don’t do themes. You know what I gave? I gave grape juice, hamentash and one candy. Plain and simple. Why all the chocolate and candy? To get us fat?? And about being drunk I agree 100 percent. My husband got drunk and I asked him why the day after and he said he needed it because he was stressed about something. B”H he didn’t throw up or do crazy things but I still agree he should not have gotten drunk. No nee for it
yeah… our focus this year was a nice purim seudah with mine and my wife’s immediate family. For shaloach manos, our theme was ‘recycling’ – we just recycled other people’s nonsense. we didn’t even write our theme down on paper – I just told them the theme and asked if they still wanted one. We didn’t spend a $1 on it this year. (The seudah, on the other hand, was a different story 🙂 ) I’m also very appreciative that I live in an area where I don’t have to have drunk kids come knocking on my doors. I don’t think I would react kindly.
The excessive and/or underage drinking and vomiting and related Chilulei Hashem, R”L, is absurd and should be stopped, but the Mishloch Manos are quite appropriate, in my opinion.
The mitzva of Mishloach Manos is intended to increase ahava bein ish liReieihu; it is a way of promoting harmony among people. Yes, you can be yotzei with a MM of two items to only one person, and no, you do not need to spend a ridiculous amount of money on a “theme”. But it’s still a mitzva to give Mishloach Manos. On a related note,there are opinions who hold you should spend more on Matanos LaEvyonim than on MM.
Can everyone just grow up. Some people enjoy the themes and giving shalach manos. It is no one else’s business. If you don’t want the food bring it to a yeshiva and give it to the bochurim. Packaged stuff can be donated. Please stop whining. Deal with your own issues and stop worrying about your neighbor,s.
to #24, thinking clearly:
I totally agree. People are entitled to enjoy themselves how they see fit. We also find creative things to do with our excess shalach monos, and for the record, we had a creative shalach monos that we gave to approximately 30 people for about $100 (total!)
Chazal said to promote achdus through shalach monos, and this letter writer and his ilk find themselves “bothered” by what they receive. Well, I hope next year your wish comes true, and no one send you ANY shalach monos. We’ll see if you send a letter of thanks then.
However, in regards to bochurim getting drunk, they need an outlet, and this is their BIGGEST day of the year- whether you relate to it or not. That doesn’t mean hurting people (by words or vomiting), but while I cannot deny these things unfortunately take place, they are FAR from being the norm. The janitor in my old yeshiva used to comment how it was amazing to him that a bunch of 20 year olds get “stone drunk” and they’re running after the rabbis and hugging each other. He can’t understand how no one throws a punch.
Great letter! and it every person leasing a brand new lexus instead of an accord, putting down granite instead of formica………would put that money into a fund we would have gezillions of dollars for almonos……
do you see where this argument goes?
let’s let people spend on what they wish (espeacially when it enhances the simchas hayom of purim) and we’ll let them decide on how much tzedakah to give.
as far as the drinking i agree it’s out of hand. peer preasure to be drunk on purim is enormous amongst bachurim. although the more ehrliche ones usually keep it “batampt”. i was rolling this purim from a wonderful shikur.
Whoever wrote this article is right on the money. There are many, MANY of us who would support this idea and such a fund. It is high time that we stopped the madness.. Most of us need the cookies cakes and candies that are in these packages 4 weeks before Pesach like the preverbal “hole in the head” or “hole in the bread” for those who are struggling financially (and there are unfortunately too many). You need a few of the wealthier members of our community to sign their name to the start of such an undertaking. It will work, it has to. We are killing ourselves with these unnecessary excesses. This was definitely not the intention of Chazal in instituting this mitzvah. Better the funds go to Matonas Le’Evyonim or Kimcha DiPischa.
The most appreciated Mishloach Manos we get every year,from a very dear friend and his wife, is a tup of homemade applesauce, and a tup of homemade Arbes. They are both delicious and are the first things eaten. The rest of the chazerei gets passed on to the next friend who probably passes them on as well.
On the other more important point, Rachmona LiTzlan, HOW MANY OF OUR BEST OF THE BEST HAVE TO DIE BEFORE WE GET THE POINT. DRINKING TO EXCESS IS DEADLY AND CAUSES CHILUL HASHEM TO A TERRIBLE DEGREE. Why are we so makpid on this one mitzvah (mistakenly thinking that the drunker we get the bigger the Hiddur Mitvah). I want to see the Mekor where it states that we must throw up in public as part of “Ad DeLo Yada”.
Along with these ideas, we should work on the costs of other excesses that some have become accustomed to and some have to keep up with or incur something similar what was mentioned in this post.
“But if you try that with your neighbor, forget about marrying off your kids any time soon.”
Just think of the amount of good we could do with the lives and health saved, and money saved and given to tzedaka, instead of the amount of hardship, jealousy and heartbreak these “Hiduri Mitzvah” cause.
Who knows we just might merit Moshiach right away.
Let me clarify a few things here:
Kids will get drunk on purim. Period. We just need need to educate them on how to be responsible about it. Like making sure there is a designated driver as well as making sure one paces himself, drinks on a full stomach and doesn’t mix wines and spirits.
Also if one drinks to much alcohol he can get drunk, wasted, intoxicated and or impaired amongst other things. But one can only get stoned from drugs not booze. This is a very yeshivish misconception.
One last thing writing a letter to the yeshiva world editor will not change anything. It just makes you a farbissine complainer.
Very good article. It should be copied and circulated before Purim rolls around again.
We are people of means B”H and choose not to flaunder. So people call us stingy. Yet, those who are close to us know the truth, not that it makes a difference. We purchased ready Shalach Manos where money goes for tzedoka (not a modad or yeshiva one that really gives to the needy). The total was $364.00. In addition our doors were open and my husband gave and gave and B”H is still giving. You want to know our address…sorry we live in an old house which you rather wouldn’t want to be seen coming into!!
When it came to shidduchim B”H those with brains joined our family and their children are well taken care of. Those who felt we were stingy regret it!!!
Stop living for the street!!
to the author, you sound as if you are relatively wealthy. For many of us themes are a way of keeping our shalach monos affordable yet nice looking. I for one would have loved to get a cook book and would be happy to take much of the nosh you discarded. I do not love all the food we get, but very little goes in the garbage, we can usually find people who are happy to take it including my husbands coworkers who are always happy with pretty much any food. Also we never have groups of bochrim dancing, vomitting or not, because we are not known as gvirim. My kids would be delighted to have them. I think that everyone should stop kvetching about what everyone else does and enjoy the parts you enjoy and ignore the parts you don’t. there is a garbage for anything you don’t want and people get pleasure from giving something they feel has value. if you don’t want the bochrim hang a sign and let them know, maybe they will come to the poorer half and help them feel some of the simchas purim instead. why do so many people feel the need to have everyone celebrate as they feel is proper and want to institute change for everyone. NOT everyone feels like you do!! You do what you want and let others do the same!
#20 AEF – You are wrong. “Persons under 21 are prohibited from purchasing or possessing alcohol, from consuming alcohol in public but may in the privacy of their own homes with consent of a legal guardian, or from having a blood alcohol level of more than 0.02% while driving.”
Actually, I give simple shalach monos such as some homebaked cookies or hamantashen with a drink and we just did a shidduch with a lovely family. Don’t be so angry at the world. There are a lot of reasonable people in it (especially outside of Brooklyn).
To #20, AEF, a minor CAN be arrested for mere possesion of alcohol and for public inebriation.
I know from personal experience. It carries a fine AND license suspension.
My son the 18 year old Yeshiva bochur, told me that it’s not the “the son of a wealthy supporter of the Yeshiva” who will be suspended first. It would be a Rebbe’s son!
#31, Thanks buddy, I was just about to respond accordingly to this obvious rebel. Mr. AEF, we ALL wish you the best of luck in life (and you’ll need lots of it with your attitude). BTW, if you read carefully, the word used was “expelled” not suspended. An expulsion will almost assure that you ain’t gettin into another “real” yeshiva anytime soon. (The cracker-jack, just-to-have-a-name-attached-to-my-shiduch-resume yeshivos clearly don’t count) That’s how people like you learn. But then again, you may grow up and mature one day. Then you might look back and wonder: “Did I really think like that”?
THIS IS THE BEST “OUT OF THE MAILBAG” THAT YESHIVA WORLD EVER POSTED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WISH THEY WOULD PRINT THIS IN EVERY JEWISH NEWSPAPER OUT THERE..
NOBODY HAS THE “GUTS” IN TODAYS DAY AND AGE TO STOP ALL THIS NONSENSE. AND PEOPLE ARE JUST DIEING YOUNGER BECAUSE OF ALL OF THIS GARBAGE…..
WHO EVER WROTE THIS LETTER SHOULD BE HIRED RIGHT AWAY BY A MAJOR NEWSPAPER.
THANKS FOR POSTING THIS.
BRAVO!!
Drunkeness-dayenu,
Limos -dayenu,
fireworks -dayenu
what’s next?
GROW UP Everyone!! It’s high time we become responsible for ourselves! We need to act as adults & know our limitations. What you are asking for is an Obama controlled religion. “heres what you should do, when you should do it, and how you should do it.”. If you cant afford it, dont do it. Soon we’ll have people telling us how to make our simchos…oh wait, sorry, there was an organization that did that already. it’s insane that this is what it has come to.
And as far as themes go, who cares. if it makes your spouse and kids happy (and bings joy to those receiving it, yes there are people out there who enjoy the poems)more power to them. Themes dont make a shlach manos expensive.
To #25- KRUNCH. Have you gone COMPLETELY MAD!!! They need an “OUTLET”? i cant believe i actually read that! getting drunk is NOT an outlet.it’s absolutely STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE! i personally wittnessed this purim, “yeshiva bochurim” walking the streets completely innebriated, cursing like sailors, and basically making a complete chillul hashem. and wasnt only one incident. many of the houses they go to have non-jewish bouncers at the doors. i cant imagine hat they might be thinking. You want an outlet? start by making sure the yeshivos allow our children to have an outlet. let them join organized sports. Lipa isnt such a bad guy. (Neither is Matisyahu, for that matter). when you assur everything, they will find something, and usually not something thats appropriate. we need to teach our kids the propper outlets so they dont end up in the wrong ones.
In the Old Home in Europe, the Rabbis literally laid down the law to the members of their communities. This was not “socialism” – it was daas Torah, and why the Rabbis were leaders and not just functionaries.
Let our Rabbis here return to the minhagim we have lost and start actually acting like real Rabbis. For instance:
Make strict takanos for mishloach manos in terms of size and expense. When someone has gone too obviously outside the boundaries, let the Rav give him a private call, just to explain where he has gone wrong.
Make sure any boy who gets disgracefully bombed on Purim is EXPELLED, not just “suspended.”
When a boy has been seen to be drunk on Purim, READ HIS FATHER’S NAME ALOUD IN SHUL during the next Shabbos davening. Let the community know that the boy he is responsible for is committing Chillul HaShem and endangering the lives of himself and others.
Yiddishkeit (Judaism) is not a “do your own thing” libertarian religion. It is founded on obedience to Daas Torah and the Rabbonim who administer it in our time. We obey the Torah, not our own impulses. “Do your own thing” is one of those themes of Gentile American culture that we should be rejecting (along with the weird idea that getting repulsively drunk is “fun”).
B”H in my community of fine,frum ,normal law-abiding,Torah-abiding Jews,no one gets drunk or makes a chillul Hashem. The young children deliver Mishloach Monos and get a few dollars as tips and dress up. People give simple but nice items like fruit,drinks,pastries small bottles of wine and some sweets. Halochos are followed and the spirit of Purim is respected in the way Chazal wanted it. Some of these other neighborhoods should get some Yir’as Shomayim and learn in their yeshiva, how to study Torah instead of learning evil ways.