During the rather antiseptic execution of Martin Grossman for killing Wildlife Officer Peggy Park in 1984 in North Pinellas County, Park’s mother stared at her daughter’s killer who was just 10 feet away. Afterwards, Margaret Park said she was thinking of the children of Haiti who were buried under concrete and died a horrible, scary death. Park says she thinks Grossman had it easy.
Park’s sister Betsy says 25 years is an excruciating long time to have to wait and have the way her sister died brought up over and over. Betsy Park was sad her father didn’t live to see the day the killer died.
Park says she was upset with some opponents of the execution including the Pope for stepping in and some Jewish groups which she said went too far. According to Park the family was harassed over the past week and she thinks it is reprehensible.
However Park says she is glad that Grossman took responsibility, but says it was long overdue.
Having covered some of the Peggy Park murder, and now being a witness at the execution of her killer, it seems as if Park’s death was more traumatizing. She was beaten over the head more than 20 times with her flashlight and then shot in the head with her service revolver. And while the execution brings some closure, it will never end for the Park family.
Margaret Park says you don’t forget, but you go on.
And they will go on knowing the man who killed their daughter has finally been served justice, even if it took a quarter of a century for that to happen.
(Source: http://www.wtsp.com/)
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47 Responses
I completely agree. We only have Rachmanus for our own. I feel like its me and a few others who actually cared about the Parks family’s suffering and to see justice served. Frankly, upon reading all the details of the crimes he did previously and the details of the murder itself I couldn’t comprehend where the Rachmanus was coming from. I know of plenty of Jewish kids with bad childhoods and they use drugs, however they would NEVER act violent, NEVER shoot or try to kill someone! One does not murder unless they have a killer instinct and murderous nature. The drugs maybe helped him act fearlessly but a person on drugs is usually happy and uses it to escape really, they do not go killing people. The drugs maybe helped him act fearlessly but a person on drugs is usually happy and uses it to escape really, they do not go killing people.
this poor family. and to add insult to injury, they had to listen to all of the whining and carrying on from the jewish community-a community who should be priding itself on acts of chesed and rachmunis, but instead, couldn’t see past the “j” word. whatever happened to being a light unto nations?
way to represent the tribe, folks. grrrreat work.
Yes, it is a rachmanus on the Park family who suffered tremendously. But what about all the pure innocent Yiddishe blood that has been spilled over the centuries without any cause while the nations stood by without making a sound.
and sensitive way. I’m sure right now the Parks and their friends and relatives don’t look very kindly upon us. They may feel that we overstepped our bounds and they may be right. Personally I think the agudah should be in touch with the Parks and maybe even send them a gift. We can’t imagine what they are going through waiting 25 years to get closure on this. I hope Agudah calls the Parks’s and explains our position in a sensitive way. Id hate for this to be a cause of chillul Hashem and antisemitism for the Parks family and their friends.
2, you missed the boat! The Gov’nuh was being asked for Grossman to spend the rest of his natural life in jail and not to be killed. No one was denying the crime however the person seemed to have changed in the 25 years he was rotting on death row. Maybe the situation would have been different if he was killed after a year, 2 years, or even 5 years however 25 years is a long time to have introspection on one’s live and misdeeds.
Doing the right thing is NOT a chilul haShem no matter how uncomfortable you are with it.
#2 before bashing the jewish community i urge you to look into the facts. I’n the beginning I thought just like you until I looked at all the facts and different angles. There is a reason why many rabonim and thosands of people opposed it.
Lawman and others-
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF TSHUVA?! Pple change, you know.
If you haven’t, maybe you never made mistakes.
We were not asking to FREE him – just life in prison.
Michoel Yechiel ben Avrohom is a poor soul.
Can everyone please give ‘tzedaka’ and do a mitzva l’iluy nishmaso?
Did anyone think to suggest to him that he send a shliach to her grave to ask for forgiveness? Who knows, but it might have helped him a lot.
#1 WellInformedYid a jewish life is worth the entire world!! how could you have pity on the Parks and you still consider yourself a yid?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shame on both of you.
All the pressure by many good and not necessarily Jewish people to give a sixty day extension, was the right thing to do! The pope, and I’m sure many Jews as well, are opposed to the death penalty.
Death penalty in Halacha is a very serious matter, dealt very infrequently, and with utmost care. Definitely not by jury…
The state of Florida, on the other hand, mixes emotions of “justice served” together with facts.
I received an email from Gov. Crist’s office explaining his stance. I was amazed that as proof of “premeditation”, he uses all the efforts made by Grossman to cover up his actions AFTER the deed had been done.
There was NO premeditated act here, and with all due respect and empathy towards the Parks family, he should not have been executed.
# 1 and 2 – nobody said he didn’t commit a heinous crime and nobody condones it. Nobody doesn’t feel sorry for the family, and nobody is against justice! You sound like a self jew hater. All we asked for was to spare his life because he truly regretted his crime and showed remorse, we were not asking for freedom or dismissing the severity of his crime.
Yeshiva world – Can we have the Family Parks contact details so we can express our sympathy and explain our position?
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is not literally understood by our tradition. Where does it state that we must kill by lethal injection a confessed killer? Death by Beit Din was only done under very special circumstances that included two witnesses with specific roles they had to play first to allow death by the court. The Jewish community was NOT asking for releasing a murderer, they were asking for a stay of execution with the purpose of keeping the murderer in jail for the rest of his life. A light onto the nations is to show Jewish values and Torah laws. That is what was done, and nothing more. To imitate the non-Jewish courts to be accepted as one if them is wrong.
Just adding to what’s mostly been said. Under Jewish Law, Martin Grossman would not have been killed. No one should be allowed to raise a hand to another individual and therefore prosecution is necessary. Martin Grossman lived in Florida which has a death penalty and so he was killed. The Rabbis of course are correct in asking for clemency because their plea is coming from a halachic perspective and not from an emotional one. Under Jewish Law it was wrong to kill this individual. Florida law is not Jewish Law. We live in a very anti-authority environment and so it’s good for us as Jews to have accepted the Rabbis opinion that he be spared. I don’t think there’s even one Orthodox Rabbi who would say he could have been killed under Jewish Law. I am also very happy that there are Jewish people who go out there to help those who are in prison. They should keep up the great work and continue to bring these people closer to Hashem.
So, now execution has become and issue in the Jewish community because of “one of our own.”
Will our Rabbonim and community leaders now take on capital punishment as an issue? Is it’s only an issue when a Jew’s life is at stake? Are we going to be hypocrital and remain silent when a non-Jew is facing the needle (or the chair)?
Mr. Wellinformedyid, unfortunately you don’t sound too informed at all. There are a few points you obviously missed. Someone who kills in a situation where he’s trapped, is not a person who has “killer instinct and murderous nature”.
Secondly, there was nobody requesting to have him released from jail and put back on the street. Thirdly, “you couldn’t comprehend where the rachmunis was coming from” I question your yichus. As frum Yidden we have rachmunis on every single yid. Especially on a person with an obviously very troubled youth, a person who sat in jail over 25 years. More than enough time to do complete teshuva, hasn’t even had the opportunity to do too many aveiros in the past 25 years. Besides which, “we” believe that every minute of life on this
World is worth more than we can comprehend. We ask shaylos to keep someone potentially braindead alive on machines, even when it appears the person doesn’t have long to live. We do CPR and attempt to revive someone who the world considers dead even if they’re 95 years old, because we know that every extra minute on this world is invaluable and definitely irreplaceable. I guess you didn’t even have enough rachmanis to extend his life a little more in jail, to do more teshuva and more mitzvos. Shame on you.
Justice served? By whom? The Florida justice system? “Asher tasim lifneihem” v’lo lifnei arka’os she’ll umos ha’olam. Why? Because even if the laws require the same ruling for a particular crime, justice will not be served. Justice means perfect ballance. Justice means all accounts are settled. It requires an all seeing eye and an all hearing ear. That, HKB”H tells us, is possible only when all aspects of the din are followed: two witnesses, hasra’ah (proper warning), drishos v’chakiros (cross-examination in accordance with the halachah, etc. Then, and only then can we be certain that justice has been served. Even if the witnesses planned the entire testimony with perfection. The Torah assures us that if the “trial, verdict, and sentencing were all carried out without mishap (conntradicting witnesses, etc.) then justice was really served.
Let’s not get carried away with he was guilty and dinah d’malchusa, etc. There is a big difference between guilt and being worthy of the penalty. When the Dayan Ha’Emes serves the sentence (i.e. the trial went according to halachah and the sentence was carried out), we can be sure that all factors were considered: the Grossman family, the Parks family, those close to both, those watching and/or reading about the crime, etc.
Certainly it was HKB”H who allowed the Grossman execution to tale place. But please let’s not confuse His justice with that of the Florida or US justice system. Nothing takes place without His haskomah, but we cannot use those or any results as a vote in favor for the death penalty or any othe code of this government or any other government.
“Asher tasim lifneihem.”
One last note. Even though HKB”H has handed down His verdict does not mean that those who cried out – wrote letters, sent faxes and e-mails, made phone calls, and/or signed petitions – were all acting out of misplaces rachmanus. Quite the contrary. Their acts of achdus, ahavas Yisroel, achrayus, nesi’us ohl, and following our leaders, will likely be a great zechus. We must do what we are required to do regardless of what the apparent final outcome is. Purim proves that to be the case. The real final outcome is only revealed much later. Everyone “knew” it was Mordechao’s protesting and stubborness that brought the terrible decrees upon klall Yiroel, untill time proved otherwise.
Mi k’amcha Yisroel!
The Parks family suffered due to an awful crime perpetrated against their daughter. That the family was harrased was unfortunate, and uncalled for, as they have suffered enough.
However,
#1 – Martin was on mind altering drugs, came from a completely secular background- how do you know that he even heard of the Aseres Hadibros – who were his parents and maybe he really didn’t get the travesty of his deeds at 19. He was scared because he was caught violating his probation. Fear is a powerful force of the yetzer hora, it caused so many of the klal into the aveira of maase ha’egel. He lost himself to fear, and commited a terrible deed.
#2 – please don’t delude yourself into thinking that justice was done. Yes, we cared more about him because he is Jewish. He also did tshuva. For Torah Jews, that is enough. It was even enough for the Pope. However, all that was asked for was a 60 day postponement, because in that time, the courts would have cleared him, meaning that he would not have been subject to the death penalty, meaning that yesterday’s execution was a travesty of justice, not a meting out of justice.
As for representing “the tribe” – that is an outcome of “doing the right thing”, or following Hashem’s word. In this case, following Hashem’s word was to do everything to save Martin Grossman’s life. Of course, there will be times that “doing the right thing” looks odd to people who are using a different reference point for what is right. That doesn’t mean that we change our point of reference. That is why we’ve been around for thousands of years.
Martin Grossman had an IQ of 77. That means that his mental age was 4 years and 7 months old.
The Supreme Court in 2002 banned the execution of mentally retarded inmates with IQs of 70 or below in Atkins v. Virginia, 01-8452.
As a result a number of inmates throughout the country with IQ’s in the mentally retarded range had their death sentences commuted.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/sentence-reversals-mental-retardation-cases
In fact in FL, as a result of Atkins v. Virginia, three inmates have had their death sentences reduced when experts found them to be mentally retarded, in similar intelligence rangse to that of Martin Grossman but of course none of the other inmates were Jewish
He was “smart” enough to know the detailed methods for covering up for his crimes including changing the tires, which most criminals with much higher IQ’s, never think of doing.
#10: Under the law, a jury can consider actions after the crime as proof of premeditation. Also, Grossman told numerous people that he murdered her to avoid going to prison. Please stop inventing one set of laws for the Jews and another set of laws for everyone else.
#19: Not sure that one can even consider a single IQ score of 77. Where are his other IQ scores? Anyway, an IQ of 69 or below is necessary. He also lacked the other criteria for an Atkins claim. In fact, he neither met the definition for mental retardation under the DSM or Atkins. You are another one who needs to stop inventing one set of laws for Jews and another set for everyone else.
Wildlife Officer Peggy Park
(November 28, 1958 – December 13, 1984)
Wildlife Officer Margaret E. “Peggy” Park was born on November 28, 1958 in Columbus, Ohio.
Officer Park grew up in the Columbus, Ohio area and graduated from Bexley High School in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio in 1977. She graduated from Ohio State University in December, 1981 with a bachelor of science degree in natural resources and wildlife management. She began working for the Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission on September 7, 1982, after graduating from the Wildlife Officer Recruit School in Tallahassee and assigned to Pinellas county.
Officer Park, 26, a three-year veteran of the Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission, was shot and killed on December 13, 1984. Two men were convicted of the killing. Martin Edward Grossman, 20, was sentenced to death and is still on Florida death row. Thayne Taylor, 17, was sentenced to seven years in prison. He served only two years and 10 months before being released into a “supervised community release program” in Pasco County. He was discharged from that program on December 4, 1987.
Officer Park was alone on routine patrol on Thursday evening, December 13, 1984, when she spotted a van, she thought to be suspicious, in a remote area of northeastern Pinellas County. She became suspicious of the two occupants. She found a handgun and seized it along with the occupant’s driver’s license. When Officer Park opened the door to her vehicle to radio in the information, the subject grabbed her large flashlight and beat her 20-30 times on the head and shoulder. The other subject joined in the assault but was disabled temporarily when Officer Park kicked him in the groin. During the struggle, Officer Park was able to draw her gun, but was only able to fire a “wild shot” into her vehicle. The subject wrestled the gun away and shot her in the back of the head. Officer Park was pronounced dead at 8:32 p.m.
Officer Park was survived by her parents, James and Margaret Park, a brother, Steve Park, and a sister, Betsy Park.
The funeral, arranged by the Moss Funeral Home of Clearwater, was held at St. John’s Episcopal Church in Clearwater. There was no burial service as the body was cremated. Her ashes were taken by helicopter and scattered over the eagles’ nests she had watched so often.mfosur omforied bein homammim
#18: No, Grossman was not on drugs at the time of the murder. Another lie of many told about the facts of this case. How do I know he wasn’t? It is never mentioned in any of the numerous court opinions on the case or in his psych evaluation in preparation for the trial where he gave a detailed account of what occurred the day of the murder and which was deliberately NOT posted on the Aleph website.
He was also in violation because the gun he had was stolen in a burglary he committed when he got out of prison. He was looking at additional prison time. But that is no excuse for murdering a peace officer. Implying that it is, is sick.
#1 & #9, you BOTH totally missed the boat.
You CAN and SHOULD have rachmanut on the Parks family. However it is very possible and necessary to do so without judging Martin Grossman a”h.
#12, I doubt the Parks family would appreciate 100 calls expressing sympathy. After hearing the sister speak after the execution, I would think they want to be left alone.
#16, Thank you.
#17 & #18, Beautifully said.
#20 I feel actual pain for you. The man was killed and you still can’t give it a rest. Do you believe in Hashem? Do you understand that He is the only Judge? Do you realize that after 120 your judgement will be midah k’neged midah, that you will be judged the way that you judged others? You are only giving more and more power to your Mekatregim in Heaven.
#21 seems pretty krum to me, although I don’t like to speak with people like you lest you spew forth your poison into my life, I just HAVE to ask you, is there NOT another set of laws for Jews?! Yes, dina d’malchuta dina when those laws do not contradict with ours, but do you not believe in Torah?? Unless I completely misunderstood your point, what are you doing on YWN??
I wonder if the frum community, & Jewish community in general, could, in similar manner, mobilize on behalf of Jonathen Pollard (Yehonasan ben Malka), who’s been in jail for 24+ (?) years for passing confidential info to a U.S. ally, Israel, a punishment longer that we’ve meted out to individuals who passed confidential info to U.S. enemies, with no end in sight r’l.
Sam5 misses the point again.
Did you miss where #18 said “In this case, following Hashem’s word was to do everything to save Martin Grossman’s life. Of course, there will be times that “doing the right thing” looks odd to people who are using a different reference point for what is right. That doesn’t mean that we change our point of reference. That is why we’ve been around for thousands of years.” ?
According to HALACHA, the secular court has no jurisdiction over a Jewish life.
Martin Grossman did t’shuva but perhaps, as the g’mara explains, still needed caparah.
Goel Hadam
MichelleNY again demonstrates her inability to comprehend simple English.
Did you miss where #18 said that Grossman was on mind altering drugs? Did you miss my response that there was no evidence that he was on drugs at the time of the murder? Did you miss my further response that Grossman himself never said he was on drugs or alcohol at the time of the murder? No point was missed let alone missed again. Or, is your point that you feel you are perfectly justified to tell lies and mislead people?
#24 MichelleNY: No, there is no set of laws that says a Jew can viciously murder a law enforcement officer and then Jews like you and others can lie about what occurred, attack the victim and harass her family. I believe in justice for everybody.
I don’t like to speak to liars like you. But as long as you keep posting your lies, I will keep posting the truth.
I didn’t miss it. You miss my point again though. Our job is not to prove he was guilty. The man was already killed. Your words are empowering your prosecutor after 120. Nothing more, nothing less. Whether he was on drugs or not, whether his sin was premeditated or not, whether he was mentally retarded or not, according to OUR law a secular court does not have the right to kill him. Therefore according to OUR law we had an obligation to do what we could. NO ONE asked that they release him and give him a job or buy him a house. Just to keep him in jail to die on his own time, when Hashem decided he should die. It is apparent now that Hashem decided he should die yesterday evening. But that wasn’t a Florida court’s decision to make. And I for one can say I did what I had to do. I did what Torah instructed me to do. Torah did not instruct me to analyze and examine the case and Mr. Grossman’s a”h actions.
I feel for Ms. Parks family more than you could ever know. But can one [impulsive] murder [by a troubled teen] be fixed by another murder [of a remorseful man who has been sitting in jail for the past 2 1/2 decades and is clearly not the frightened and obviously extremely troubled boy he was 25 years ago]?
#31 Of course, you didn’t miss it. You’re just a dishonest person and will keep on posting lies. Our job is not to lie about the facts of the case, attack the victim, and attack her family. If one lives in the US, you are bound by its laws. Claiming that Jews are not is ridiculous.
If you felt anything at all for the mother of Officer Park, you would not be lying about the murder of her daughter and lying about the murderer. Your dis-ingenuousness is noted. And enough with the he was just a teen nonsense. The age of majority is 18 and he was a few weeks away from his 20th birthday. It was premeditated murder and felony murder. He did not act on impulse. He made the conscious decision that he did not want to go back to prison and the way to achieve that was to murder Officer Park. Lawful execution is not murder. And he was not a frightened youth. He was a cold hearted ba$tard. He showed no remorse after the murder. In fact, he bragged about it to his friends. Everybody is sorry after they get caught. Too bad.
I do not lie, and I most definitely did not lie on these posts. Anything I said or wrote is something I believed to be true at the time. I read on certain news websites that the man was under the influence at the time of his crime. I’ll admit even is this was true it would not justify what he did.
However I have come to accept that you will not ever heed my point. It takes a yerei Elokim to understand what I have been trying to say. Therefore I will not reiterate what I have said so many times. It seems it’s simply no use.
I do appreciate that you are an honest person. Please understand though that you do not know me and please do not claim to.
#5, #2.
maybe i’m mistaken but there were ten commandments written, not nine? something about not murdering? was there a clause somewhere allowing murder if it was committed by a jew but he does teshuvah? or was it something more like the punishment for murder is death? how many of you would be willing to stand up against the death penalty for a black man committing this same crime against a frum jewish woman?
100 deaths can`t bring Ms Parks back to life nor can any amount of “punishment” delete the awful trauma she suffered or the family`s ongoing pain – That includes death for Mr Grossman. The literal eye for an eye does little for justice – her life was snuffed out in crime and anger, having killed Grossman adds a link of death instead of giving him the opportunity to learn a lesson of life.
The Jewish community the Pope and Amnesty international were not asking him to be freed. We asked for a short DELAY before killing (executing bla”z) him. The pope has 1 Billion Roman catholic followers, his opinion should have at least made trigger-happy Gov “Crist’s” (the “Good-Samaritan”) grant an extension of 60 days. That’s what bothered all of the petitioners.
But I think for the grieving distraught Parks Family to be upset at an attempt to try to give Martin a final chance at LEGAL DEFENCE is not a fair request. The Legal System is here for JUSTICE and Justice demands: 1)To get all the possible facts out on the table – 2) Re-evaluate the 24 year old sentencing based on current circumstances (his change & remorse) and technological advances (for psych analysis) – 3) and get the best attorneys involved before executing Martin.
LET US ALL WHO REALLY DAVENED AND DID WHATEVER WE CAN FOR MARTIN, GIVE TZEDAKH LEARN MISHNAYOS FOR AN ALIYA FOR HIS NESHAMA. HE WAS A TINOK SHENISHBA AND HE CAN USE OUR HELP.
What in the world does this lady want?!? Of course her husband didn’t live to see his killer die! HIS KILLER! HELLO?!? I think she should just push it out of her mind because after all, justice was served!
#37, the lady was sad that her husband did not live to see their DAUGHTER’s killer die. Grossman’s victim was a 26-year-old woman.
Baruch Dayan HuEmes
Thank You everyone for your efforts to try and save another jew’s life
CHUSUVEYID… i think you should change your user name… your comment is so cold and uncaring(not a Jewish trait).. and to everyone that had a negative comment on the Parks or made Martin Grossman a saint… WHAT IF HE HAD KILLED YOUR DAUGHTER? anyone signing the petitions, making phone calls or comments should think of that first if you still come up with the same conclusion please feel free to share it but I have a feeling if you put yourself in the Park’s shoes for one minute…. to go to sleep every night of your life knowing that your precious child was brutally murdered……..
without goig into the whole discussion whether one should have asked for a stay or smoe form of clemency for martin grossman, I have to correct many of the comments that said that, according to jewish law, he would not be put to death. Although this is technically correct- as you need two live witnesses for an actual beis din to convict and execute him by the sword-nonetheless the chazal were not naive. It is explicitly stated that if you see a man running out of a housw with a bloody knive and you find a dead man inside, you SHOULD put this man (the one with the knive, obviosuly) in a “box’ (prison) and not feed him so that he dies from hunger and exposure.
Chazal understood that there were circumstances when witnesses did not appear, yet the actual fact was incontrovertible and in such case the murderer could not escape.
Martin Grossman a”h was in that category- in the times of chzal he would have died a horrbile death fron hunger and exposure.
It’s wrong for anyone to fault those who made efforts to have his life spared (myself included; my e-mail to Governor Crist can be found elsewhere on YW), but it’s also wrong for anyone to fault the victim’s family for being in favor of the execution and/or for attending, as a means of attempting to achieve closure.
#24 I have already been judged by H-sh-m far more harshly then you could possibly imagine.
My entire life has been one of nothing but suffering and misjudgements against me by the same types who now show so much compassion for this cold blooded murderer.
In fact it is this backwards reality where evil ones are supported and those like me whonever murdered anyone and at least make some attempt
at being somewhat decent, are harrassed and attacked for it.
I wish I could have been executed instead of Grossman, not because I do not believe he should have been executed for his crimes but because I can’t wait to be out of this world where evil is called good and good is called evil, and out of this horrible life and in the world of truth where I will accept whatever judgement I get once I can see some reason why I must suffer so much while the most evil ones have the best lives.
It is quite ugly and unnecessary to say nasty things and ascribe bad motives and often foolish assumptions to one another because you don’t agree with someone’s view.You don’t have to agree on the death penalty to have rachmonis on the poor Park family. Realize that many articles have been written saying contradictory things. To call someone a liar because they heard a different “fact” is outrageous.Most objectors to his execution,( besides a possible belief that capital punishment in today’s legal system is wrong), seem to feel that his past representation was inadequate in determining his cognitive and psychiatric status, and feel that before you kill someone, they should at least be given a 60 day opportunity to use new medical brain testing to see what is real.Just as many have died and been wrongfully incarcerated before the advent of DNA testing, premeditation and the ability to think rationally and gain control might be hampered by certain brains on certain medicines under certain circumstances. I’m so glad Martin finally had the knowledge and comfort of knowing that he had the prayers and good wishes and support of so many brothers and sisters, even tho they were appalled at what he did.Support that it seems he didn’t have before in his pre-crime life. His last words were “Ahavas Yisrael”.Lets show some of that to each other now.The Temple was destroyed by sinas chinam.Let’s merit the 3rd one. Let’s also try to figure out how to improve the educational, medical and social supports for impaired young people in dysfunctional families, so that in the zchus of doing that there won’t be other Martins,Peggy’s and grieving families.There’s work to be done. For the sake of the world, not just us.
#43, “hereorthere”, this is Yirmi, using Tzivia’s login. “hereorthere”, I pray that these words can give you some chizuk, some feeling of hopefulness for your future. I can only imagine the depth of your suffering. I don’t imagine any of my own or most others’ could match your pain. But please bear with me. We know that all people suffer terribly at times, and it’s how each reacts to what he/she is given to bear that determines the level of despair they experience. Could I, or even you, imagine how some of those condemned to the gas chambers could have marched to their certain fate with heads held high singing “Ani Ma’amin”? Could I, or even you, imagine how some of those barely existing, walking corpses in the Auschwitz barracks, could have risked all, literally all, to somehow light the Chanukah candles in the corner in the middle of the night, while listening for the vicious guards who might burst in and end their lives right then? They knew their worth to Hashem. They knew the value of each additional mitzvah they might perform under those most unconscionable conditions. They knew that whatever reason they were placed in their personal horror, Hashem did that for an ultimately good reason. They knew that in the end their tormentors would receive their proper judgment. And all of this because they knew, more than believed, they knew that this world is only an entranceway for each of us to the next world – where everything will be explained, where our level of faith, and our mitzvahs will be rewarded in fitting measure. “hereorthere”, please search out a Rav who can help you find that spark that still resides within you. Please find that Rav who can help you to know the true reality of this world and how it really works, that you seemingly question today. If my words have given you any level of insight then know that like those other proud Jews I described, you, too, have the ability within you to walk proudly before Hashem no matter what your circumstances. Find a Rav who can help you to know that He wants to see you hold on to life on this physical earth as a proud Jew, to know that he has given you the ability to endure the thoughtlessness and even the evil of others, with equanimity and pride even through the pains He is asking you to deal with. Find a Rav who can help you to know that He believes in you and will support you for eternity beyond this earth if you will just make a start while you are on this earth. It’s never too late. It was more than 50 years before I began to know this for myself. Know that the spark is within your reach no matter your age or how much you suffer today. This has been my bracha to you – now you know that you can still take that first step, so don’t delay – do your part now and go for it. I can assure you that in the end it will be worth it.
Dear Hereorthere,
I was so focussed on the upsetting aspects on this blogsite that somehow I missed your post.When I woke up this AM and came to the site, I was so happy to see Yirmi’s ackowledgement of you.May you find support, guidance and proper, if necessary, medical help to enable you to move to a place of joy. My understanding is that we are here to do the best we can to serve Hash-m and the world with whatever challenges Hash-m has designed for us for our ultimate good. With acceptance that He made us to be here for each other, please find those who can be here for you. Then you, as a survivor,with new found skills for surviving will be in a position to help others, who like yourself are suffering and don’t know a way out.Please be strong, hopeful and joyful on your journey. All the very best.Tzivia.
If person A can lift 200 LBS over his head and person B can only lift 10 LBS over his head who suffers more Person A being forced to lift
250 LBS or person B being forced 30 LBS over his head?
Person A has to lift 1/4 more then his maximum while person B is forced to lift 3 times more then his maximum but person B is still lifting only a faction of what person A is being forced to lift.
So I think person B suffers more even though he is not going through nearly as much in terms of absolute physical foerced actions then person A
Those who went through the holocaust suffered more then most others but iof they were of a stronger generation as we keep being told they were then much smaller sufferings today can still hurt worse then what much stronger people went through even when the absolutes in physical suffering are vast.
Further, anyone wo went through the holocaust is automatically excused from just about any attitudes or complaints they have and they are not criticized for almiost any behavior since “they are holy survivors”.
Someone like me has never had an end to criticism and personal attacks.
All my life starting from 5 years old nothing I ever did was right.
If someone I never knew went up to me and started beating me for no reason somehow it was always MY FAULT.
When I was in yeahivah same thing and in my work and social life (or lack thereof) same thing.
No one ever went out of their way to put together maximum resources to help me get a good job or start a business or even get a shudduch because I was not a murderer deserving of such “ahavas Yisroael”.
Finally when antisemites on their websites and blogs and other look at this website and say
“see the Jews think they are superior to all others and they have a right to kill the “goyem”
because (as some have said on this sight) “one Jewish life is worth the whole rest of the world”
I have nothing to say to them and thus they think thy have an argument to to try and start another holocaust.
I do not want to be around when it happens.