After years of beating around the bush, Rabbi Avi Weiss came right out this past week and said what everyone assumed he’s been thinking all along: Sara Hurwitz, the woman he has mentored and trained to function as an Orthodox cleric is, in his view, an Orthodox rabbi.
Rabbi Weiss of the Hebrew Institute of Riverdale, who founded both Yeshivat Chovevei Torah (for men) and Yeshivat Mahara”t (for women), announced that after a year-long trial run for Hurwitz with the title “Mahara”t” — an acronym for Manhiga Hilchatit Ruchanit Toranit — she will henceforth be known by a more familiar-sounding title: “Rabbah.”
“This will make it clear to everyone that Sara Hurwitz is a full member of our rabbinic staff, a rabbi with the additional quality of a distinct woman’s voice,” Rabbi Weiss explained.
While deploring Rabbi Weiss’ new low, Rabbi Avi Shafran, a spokesman for Agudath Israel of America breaths a sigh of relief that the veil was finally removed from Weiss’s long-suspected agenda.
“It is laudable that the disingenuous title has been abandoned, the new one better reflects the intention of its conferrers. Now it would be good for them to come clean, too, about what the entire venture really is: an essential break with the mesorah of Klal Yisrael,” Rabbi Shafran said.
“I’m pretty traditional,” Hurwitz admitted drolly with a faint South African accent. “I know halacha. I keep halacha very carefully. I have tremendous emunah. I can’t convince somebody else that I really am Orthodox and that Rabbi Weiss is really Orthodox. The only way is for somebody to realize it themselves. And they’ll realize it.”
“In four more years we’ll have four more women out there, acting as rabbis. And the community that’s to the right of us will see that having women who are talented, sensitive clergy will be a boon to the community. But that takes time,” Hurwitz said.
Read the full story at the Jewish Star website: (Story edited on YWN) http://thejewishstar.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/frum-female-but-a-rabbi/
NOTE: Please see Yeshivat Chovevei Torah: Is It Orthodox http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=5269
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39 Responses
I have relatives who sadly used to daven at this mans congregation and ultimately stopped because it kept becoming more about audacity and less about davening, I never subscribed to his brand but I do not want to judge the actions of anyone that davened there.
Now, that being said, this is the same man who has hosted in his BEIS MEDRISH, Cohanei Akkum , and another “Rabbi” who says that Christianity is just as valid as Yehadus for avodas hashem,
Hashem Yeracheim
Avi Weiss is no more a rabbi then the women he wants to ordain.
No one said women aren’t intelligent or talented.
That implied claim of “mysoginy” against those who follow Torah is false.
G-d runs the world, and G-d gave the Torah and laid down the halachas.
Women in general Al Pi Halacha are not to be rabbis or judges and it is not about “lack of intelligence”.
Way back in history one woman named Devorah was a judge and accepted by al the rabbis and community as a proper qualified judge.
Now whatever was going on that made the community paskin that she should be accepted as a judge was done in her case alone.
The Reform religion today wants to take a single example and apply it to the Klal and the rabbonim have always paskened that Halacha does not allow that at least in this case.
So now MR Weiss, wants to change Halacha all by himself with no precident behind him to do so.
But he “follows Halacha”.
No he does not.
Please consider pinning this as a featured item for some time, more then just a day. This website is read by jews from all walks of life (some of them will deny that, however I spend my time in a few different communities) and its importance is tremendous.
This is something that needs to be known by all.
Thanks.
An “orthodox rabbi” who does not follow daas Torah??
Wouldn’t that be something of a contradiction???
(Or perhaps he has the haskama of a Gadol?)
I don’t understand what everyone is getting so excited about-
I think many more organizations in eretz Yisroel are training these types of Rabanit’s or Madrichei halachot.. and these organizations have the sanction or at least are not being berated by the right- look it up!.
As long as you won’t go to them for your shailos- why do you care..
Oh, you think that they will pasken not K’Halacha?
To that I answer you -not any more than R Weiss himself. Probably more to the right than R Weiss!
Cool it guys- there are more important things out there.
This may not be the most important issue-
Many RY and Rebbes wifes throughout history (and their daughters as well) that acted within Halacha and delivered shiurim etc.
Now I know that the spirit of the law is that they should not make this the mainstream- but rather keep it to an individual exception only in order to be “K Halacha in this matter( Can there be women “Rabbis’ or women who learn)..
But is R Weiss considered Rubo shel Oilam?
I dare say that he is in the very minority-At least in the Torah world
Sure she is a rabbi. Learning 67 minutes of Gemora a day makes a rabbi, right.
I agree, “rabbi” sara hurwitz is a rabbi of equal status as “rabbi” avi weiss. No dispute from me. Lets call a spade, a spade.
Devorah? Miriam?
While deploring Rabbi Weiss’ new low, Rabbi Avi Shafran, a spokesman for Agudath Israel of America breaths a sigh of relief that the veil was finally removed from Weiss’s long-suspected agenda.
say what you want about Rabbi Weiss , weather you agree or disagree with him he shoots straight to the point with his intentions and you know were he stands and were you stand.
in my opinion the Agudath Israel does not play by those rules . when they feel it is politicly correct for them they will dance one way or the other way and every which way , weather they are dancing in two different directions at the same time .
in my opinion they should just be quiet and not say anything. in some places the world has gotten to the point were if a women has a question to ask
she would feel much more comfortable asking her question to a lady and not a man.
The first reform keep kosher and today they intermarry. The woman says she keeps halacha please tell me according to whom, According to avi weiss maybe but not the frum olam
Yosse #7 – FRUM Women have been asking Rabanim questions (either directly, or through their husbands) for many centuries. If it something they do not want to discuss with even their husband, they may ask the question to the rav via his rebetzin.
To go against daas Torah is NEVER the answer.
AND #6 charvona – Devorah was a Judge, appointed for a specific time and place, and NEVER set a precedent for women in general. Miriam was a nevee’a, also an exceptional case for an exceptional specific time, not setting a precedent. Neither of these women were Rabanim. Weiss is crossing a line against daas Torah, and setting a precedent for women “rabbi”s (rabbits?) in general.
The term “Orthodox” has been hijacked by those of whom both in their practice of “orthodox” Judaism as well as their Hashkafa are no different than those in the Conservative movement 60 years ago.
It’s time that “Authentic Torah” practicing Jews separate themselves from so called “Orthodoxy”
I ask you dear YWN reader-
What exactly is the difference between a “Musmach” of Chovivay Torah & a (Yarmulka wearing, Shabbos keeping, Kosher eating) “Musmach” of JTS?
Answer-NOTHING AT ALL!!!
The Hashkafa taught by Avi Weiss & Co is outrageous & should make any readers of this website cringe. These students who know no better go out & take jobs in communities whose congregants are sincere & they in turn are misguided by their misguided “Rabbis”-ALL OF WHOM ARE ORTHODOX!!!
If a female king is a queen, what is a feemale rabbi?
An oxymoron.
#13 Moose613 – well, the article states that weiss had been calling her “Mahara”T” — “an acronym for ManhigA HilchatiT RuchaniT ToraniT”,-so now that he feels she’s a “rabbi” – I guess she’ll be called a “rabbiT”!
The amount of lashon hara here is shamefull as well as deleting comments that are not pc correct.
AinOhdMilvado #11 To go against daas Torah is NEVER the answer that is very true . however we both know that when a question gets asked and it makes a couple of stops until it gets to the rov , things do get lost and then the original question is not being asked .
the main problem here is ” tzneus ” modesty ” and that is why a women would rather ask a women and not a man . think of it this way , your wife in someways is the rabbi of the house when it comes to keeping things kosher or other things like
that . she was tought how to do things in the house and you trust her , otherwise you would have to sit home all day.
ok, Rashi’s daughters used to put on a tfillin and were adding to the commentary of their father. Asenath Barzani in 17th century was a full fledged Rabbi in Kurdistan. Hannah Rachel Verbermacher, the Maiden of Ludmir was a full fledged Chassidic Rebbe.
Seriously, where in Torah does it say that women can not be Rabbis? Where is it even remotely implied?
raboseinu:
while i understand that it is unorthodox (hahahaha, funny) to make a woman rabbi, we have to look at this from a halachic viewpoint, and not just scream and shout like banshees.
the mechaber in choshen mishpat, hilchos dayanim, says very clearly that a woman may become a manhig and a leader of a kehilla, but she cannot serve as a dayan, although we can accept her halachic view if it is valid.
there is a historical precedence for women rabbis, they are mentioned in jewish literature (before reform/conservative of course), such as asenath barzani, who was a woman rabbinical leader of the kurdish/iraqi jews during the 1600’s, and the ludmirer moyd, hannah rachel verbermacher, who was a talmida of the chernobeler magid, and who did in fact serve as a rabbinic leader.
to protest this, i think we should organize a demonstration where we come out in front of the news cameras wearing a rainbow tallis just like “rabbi” weiss.
He really means an “Orthodox Liberal!”
Reb Aaron Kotler, ZT”L, made it very plain that he considers “Modern Orthodoxy” to be just another version of Reform–It’s an entirely new religion–they’re making it up, as they go along.
It’s “Jewish Style religion,” sort of like “Kosher Style” pickles–not really kosher< just tastes like it!
“Sure she is a rabbi. Learning 67 minutes of Gemora a day makes a rabbi, right.”
Comment by Flatbush Bubby — February 4, 2010 @ 11:45 am
And a person who spends all of her time on Jewish websites ranting nonsense makes a person qualified to judge what makes someone a rabbi.
I alwats suyspected these Conservadox folks, I guess for a reason. MAALIN BKODESH
# 18 hanavon
Please, don’t confuse the kehila with your facts and history.
One of the problem with labels (Orthodox, Frum, Modern Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, etc.) is that they frame our thinking: they create a nice, neat box to put things in.
The history of Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox in the past 150 years or so drives the modern arguments.
Things that were mutar 60 years ago are now assur because one “branch” of Jews decided to normalize it and the others then reacted against it (when did mixed seating at a wedding become assur?).
The fact that Conservatives did something doesn’t mean the Rabbi Weiss, doing the same thing, is Conservative. He may just be “wrong.”
#21 “Not Bubby” – I guess if you know that Flatbush Bubby spends “all her time” on Jewish websites, you must be doing the same – or else how would you know this?
Besides, why are you picking on her? She wrote one sentence. Can’t you find something to pick on from all the other posters? They seem quite opinionated and judgemental (on both sides of the story).
Sadly some key Modern Orthodox leaders have not been outspoken on this issue. Why has the RCA not condemned this break with Mesorah. Another Haskafah advocated by some in the Modern Orthodx world is unfortunately evolution which is Not a Torah view. Thank you to Agudah for being clear as to The Torah viewpoint on this development.
#20
what’s interesting is that your name is “deepthinker”, yet you spout this drivel about modern orthodoxy.
what you have to understand is that, historically, judaism has much more in common with the contemporary modern orthodox movement than it does with the “yeshiva orthodox”, or charedi movement!
the charedim make it up as they go along, with chumras on top of chumras, and lack of understanding of judaism in its historical and classical sense.
#17, there is no evidence that Rashi’s daughters put on tefillin.
#18, the mechaber does not allow a woman to lead a kehillah. That’s an issue of serarah. But it is true that a wise woman who knows halacha, as this R Hurwitz does, is entitled to pasken shaylos, just like a man who has the same knowledge. And if she is entitled to pasken just like any yoreh-yoreh, then it makes sense that she should have the same title as them, suitably adjusted for grammatic gender. Note that R Hurwitz is an assistant rabbi, not the chief, so there’s no issue of serarah.
Sorry for my ignorance, but could anyone explain why there is any problem for a woman to be a rabbi? I mean, if she isn’t asking as an eid, but merely as an educator, is there any problem?
To #21, as far as I know there isn’t any minimum amount of time learning Gemarah needed to become a Rav, but rather expertise in a particular area of Shulchan Aruch, such as Hilchos Melichah, Basar V’Chalav, which women probably have more experience working in the kitchen than men.
There have been great rebbetzins without the title ‘Rabbi’ who were baki’im in Tanach cf. Nechama Leibowitz, zt”l
Forgot to say that #27 was in response to #25.
Disregard #30. My post didn’t show up about why I responded to Flatbush Bubby.
Not Bubby, I will not disregard what you posted.
As far as akuperma, justajew, and hanavon said, the Igros Moshe goes into detail why a woman is prohibited from being a rabbi.
But, to all of you four beki’im, I guess you know more than Rabbi Moshe Feinstein did.
I forgot one thing, stzc18, thank-you very, very much for defending me. I always appreciate it when one of the bloggers comes to my defense.
Don’t get me wrong. Everyone I know finds your posts amusing. Or something.
There is no point in having any sort of conversation here when 90% of your comment gets edited before it’s seen.
#32 Bubby –
Please quote what you are referring to, because I’m guessing you are mixing up his teshuva about a woman reciting a tefila in front of a male congregation.
Milhouse, who else has farhered her to know that she has bekius? Among all the other reservations about Rabbi Weiss’s educational approach is the minimal time YCT students learn seriously.
And I’m not the type who won’t sneeze without a kol koreih with a minimum of the right signatures, but the lack of support also gives me pause. I don’t have enough confidence in R Weiss to listen to his daas yachid.
flatbush bubby, about r’ moshe feinstein and his disagreement as to whether a woman can be a rabbi,
first of all, r moshe did allow a woman to serve as the head of a hashgachah organization, and even allowed her to answer sheilos.
r’ moshe was probably not familiar with the case of asenath barzani, who was in fact called “taana’it” and who was a rabbi in the 1600’s, r’ moshe never opened a history book, so yes i do know more than r moshe, in this one issue. believe me, in the 1600’s in iraq, there were rabbunim who were much greater than r moshe, and they allowed it.
furthermore, r moshe can say whatever he wants, but we answer to the shulchan aruch, not to igros moshe. the shulchan aruch allows it, again, look in choshen mishpat, hilchos dayanim. now, i know r moshe knew this halacha, and probably felt it was a “horas sha’ah” because reform was allowing women rabbis at the time. but, again, the shulchan aruch is very clear that a woman can serve as a morah horah (although the difference is that her psak is not as binding as a rav’s psak, but thats another shmooze) although a woman cannot serve as a dayan.
now women have been serving as leaders of communities, and even rabbis, for thousands of years…ever since devora. the rambam says that women cannot learn gemara because, as he says, “most women” dont have the mind for it, the operative word being “most”, not “all”.
we do have to understand that things change, times change, the world changes…we have always changed with it.
during the bronze age, they couldnt have had a halacha about steel knives for shchita, because they didnt have steel, but now they do, and so we have new laws. in fact, the only knife that is ever used for shchita is an iron blade, anything else wouldnt be accepted as being kosher.
the passuk mentions that shaul became upset when the women would sing about david, we know from this passuk and several others that women used to sing in public, but with the jewish exile into the eastern lands, which had customs about the singing voice of a woman, it is now a halacha that we dont listen to a womans voice when shes singing.
and ther was a time when we could drink the wine of non jews, but now we cannot.
halacha is ever changing and needs to adapt to the world as it changes.
1) “so yes i do know more than r moshe, in this one issue.” Wow #37-hanavon-WHAT CHUTZPAH!!!! R’ Moshe was a Gadol Hador – how can you talk like that? Have some more respect when you speak about someone like that!
2) And to “Not Bubby” – I wonder what was in your response to me that wasn’t posted. Must have been a doozy if they didn’t post it.
3) To Flatbush Bubby. You’re welcome. By the way, I guess your big boy in Eretz Yisroel and my daughter in seminary in Eretz Yisroel didn’t get to have fun with any snow. It only rained, sleeted, and hailed, and was quite windy, but no snow. 🙂
Chutzpah? Let’s talk about chutzpah, shall we? Since when did a Rabbi become a Priest?! I am disappointed at the narrow minded view we seem to have of our world. Let us not forget that women are not bound by time-bound mitzvot… more importantly let’s consider WHY women are not bound to mitzvot in the same way as a man…you think that is by accident? Just because one is orthodox does not make him or her any better a jew and anyone else and if a women wants to become a teacher whats the harm? My mother taught me how to eat, how to treat others with respect, how to be a good man… by the way, she’s a woman.