The following is a Ynet News article:
Hundreds of anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox Jews demonstrated Wednesday in front of the Israeli Consulate in Manhattan in reaction to the recent clashes between police and religious Jews in Jerusalem over a new parking lot opened by the government near the religious neighborhood of Meah Shearim.
Religious Jews object to the government’s decision to keep the parking lot open on the Jewish Sabbath.
“The Israeli government and the Jerusalem municipal government are committing acts of brutality against religious Jews on a scale not seen in the last 65 years,” said Rabbi Menashe Fulop, a prominent Rabbi of the Satmar Hasidic community.
“For the past three months, religious Jews have been regularly beaten mercilessly at demonstrations, called by the chief rabbis of Jerusalem, against the parking lot set up by the city government right next to the walls of the Old City. The government is inviting Sabbath-desecrators from the entire country to come to the Holy City, the palace of G-d, the place where the Divine Presence resides, to insult G-d, who warned in His Torah against the desecration of the Sabbath.”
“In which country in the world do religious Jews suffer as much persecution as in the state that calls itself Israel?” said Rabbi Fulop.
Yirmiyahu Cohen of the “Jews against Zionism” organization told Ynet that the demonstration was held as a show of support for the haredi community’s struggle against the opening of the parking lot on Shabbat, adding that police used “excessive force and did some cruel things.”
Cohen admitted that the affair served as an excuse for his group to protest against the State of Israel. “We are not against the Israeli people; we oppose the Israeli government and the fact that it is running the country instead of living in the Diaspora. According to the Torah, Jews must remain in the Diaspora until the coming of the messiah,” he said.
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41 Responses
what a bunch of clowns!! This was an act of Chillul Hashem. Chamorim dressed up like Jews. I bet that there is a pegam in each one of them that makes them non-Jewish. They are Jews wanna be.
I doubt Reb Yolish would have approved this venue for protest.
Protests like this need to be “kept within the family”.
Can they show ONE SINGLE YID that ever started to observe Shabbos because of these protests.
If they would realy of meant it L’shem Shomayim, they would of realized that the derech of the other Gedolim of our times that where mekariv bdarkei noam HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of yidden to be real ehrliche shomer Torah Umitzvos, is the only effective derech.
But when you start putting personal interests first, you become oblivious the the truth.
When will our REAL gedolei hador rise up and take control. this is insane. Hillul Hashem is worse than being mehalel shabat. Im sick and tired of this behavior. Protesting on shabat makes more policemen mehalel shabbat. Am i the only one who sees it this way?! im goin mad.
A few hundred people was all the Palestinian lovers were able to get to come?
Their purfictlee rittin synz added to the ambience!! What a joke!!
Can someone please answer which side of Satmar arranged this Chillul Hashem right before Rosh Hashanah.
Does anybody know of even ONE baal t’shuva that was m’kurav by this disgusting bunch of sonai Yisrael?!? Mashiach will be brought by ahavas chinam, NOT the sinah that is the hallmark of this crowd.
1. how much
Sammygol, How much hundreds fits in 50,000?
Now just for the fact, yesterday it was just a picketing, today it will be held a Car-Picketing in Manhattan, and if they will not stop with their behavior then it will be a massive protest attending by the whole community,
Got it?
I won’t give them the daily 25 cents when they come collecting in my shul. they cause more chillul hashem and chillul shabbos with these stupid protests
Yimiyahu cohen is wrong to the core, where in the Torah says that we can not have a State of our own? don’t give me the writings of satmar rav, I know them already, give from the tanach where does it says that is assur to have a medinah. It was created by “divine guidance” which means that nothing happens if HaShem’s will is not there (Yechezkel 36.6 -37.28).
And about the “3 oaths” in the Gemara, that theory was debunked long time ago and there are many books on this subject. And if it wasn’t for the Medinah this land would have been in arabs hands.
To # 1, 2, 3, 4,
their is an old saying “if you have pain you yell” you don’t ask if it helps.
you pepole have pain when you see CHARADIM not reconizing your MEDINA.
But this CHAREIDIM they have pain seeing what their brothers in E.Y. suffering from the zionist police GUSTAPOES. also how the Shabos is being destroyed in the so called yidisha state.
#2,
Uh, Calling someone a mamzer or inflecting a “pegam mishpachah” would get you a quick set of Malkus.
You’re out of line.
Where in the Torah says that we have to be in galut until the Mashiach comes? Where in the Torah says that we cannot have a State of our own? Don’t give me the writings of satmar rav “vayoel moishe”, I know them already, give me from the tanach where does it says that is assur to have a medinah.
And about the “3 oaths” in the Gemara, that theory was debunked long time ago and there are many books on this subject. And if it wasn’t for the Medinah this land would have been in arabs hands.
It was created by “divine guidance” which means that nothing happens if HaShem’s will is not there (Yechezkel 36.6 -37.28). And every country has it laws whether we like them or not, Israel happens to be one of them, you don’t have to agree with the government in power but that what HaShem setup for us because of our in-fighting (Mishlei 21.1, 16.4).
#14,
If there is no pegam in these people, How do you justify their actions? they are either mentally ill or just plain stupid. they advocate the destruction of EY, the establishment of an arab state in our Homeland. They behave like anti-Semite goyim.
To moishe1:
You want to know something, my pain is seen fellow “Jews” behaving like behemoth, you talk about those “charedim” are in pain because they see the suffering of their fellow “brothers” in Israel, and do you know why they “suffer” ? They suffer because they do not go to work to bring a parnasa home, they have a truck load of kids (Baruch HaShem) but can’t support them all, their neighborhoods are filthy because they don’t care, they throw garbage everywhere (so much for loving EY) they come to my neighborhood begging for Tzedakah from us the “evil Torah Zionist Jews” to support their habits. They need to do a chesbon nefesh before they call their fellow Jewish brothers “Nazis and Gestapo”.
sinas Chinom against Satmar is also osur, and against Baali avairuh it’s debateble
they should be gebenched – not many r willing to take on the reshaim tziyonim ym”sh
I am sure that the clowns that showed up at this rally of “hundreds” are the same clowns who are demonstrate at the Israel day Parade, or the chevra who met with the Iranian President. To publically condemn the Jewish State in front of Goyim is no different than be a Moser. The reason no one showed at at this rally is becasue any ehrliche yid knows that to be Moser is the worst character that a Jew could have.
Enough! This lunatic fringe is hurting every jew, especially observant ones. People look at us and (especially about men) “Oh he belongs to the sect that’s setting the city on fire…that throws rocks. I don’t need to go into more violent acts.
Yes, the stories and pictures in the media, secular and Jewish, are translated into you and me, as well.
Demonstration against Israel. Not good at all. They are wrong. But why is this government parking their lot to aggravate everybody and opening on Shabbos? Who is the culprit behind this?
to all those who have sent in comments: do you truly believe your remarks, even if intelligent, will make anyone think the way you do about this matter? Get off this topic and learn some mussar sforim and Rambam hilchos teshuva instead.shonoh tova
For the people who say it’s not all satmer people that are doing this I beg to differ.
If Satmer community was against the people who are doing this in the name of satmar, they would say so. the fact that they don’t say anything means they are in agreeance but are just afriad to say it publicly because their businesses would be boycotted by the major frum community.
As far as I am concerened the people who demonstrate in America and in Israel are all a bunch of nut cases.
When did anyone ever become frum because of having a rock thrown at thier head or dress slashed in the name of tznius?
Seforim clearly bring down that before Moshiach comes the world will be hepach!
Moshiach is here already. Just look around us and see our own meshugoyim. Nebach.
May moshiach just please announce himself already. We are sick and tired of being sick and tired.
I won’t believe any of you anti-Satmars anymore. One of my close family members was there and he says there were 1,500-2,000 people, surely not less than 1,000. I knew your hashkafos are krum but I didn’t think you’re outright liars. It’s Elul, you know.
To #18, 19.
I still stand by my position not to throw around P’gam mishpachah.
The Talmud singles out only that issue. ( a slave is also b/c of the same reason.)
You need to be able to back up your position without resorting to artificial labels and monikers.
As for #12; You’re a creep. Calling anybody but the nazi’s gestapo, shows either a lack of sensitivity, or deficiency of knowledge of what happened to us during WWII.
PS GUSTAPOES sounds more like a kugel.
310 Youre an Apikores first class! You dont have any right to say your feelings. Who are you compared to the Holly Satmar Rebbe? This Tzadik didnt sleep in abed at night ! He stayrd up learning Torah! He loved a jew more than anyone else! And you low person is going to decide on such matters! you have no answer on the 3 oaths And YES! just because theres a state doesnt mean Hashem is happy with it. People do wrong things every day and just because Hashem lets them means Hashem wants that?! If not for Satmar Rebbe Yiddishkeit would not be on the level it is today. Before he came to America people were embarassed to be so publicly Frum! He build up everything you see today taken for granted!And Reb Ahron Kotler did the same for the Yeshiva World.
To #33 thegoat,
The satmar rav was a Tzadik in his own standing, unfortunately he was mistaken concerning the State of Israel, there are more Torah institutions here than in chutz laaretz. And the level of “yiddishkeit” that there is today was not the making of the satmar rebbe, he was just a small fraction, there were others Rabbis who did more to bring Jews to be shomer Torah uMitzvot than him, unfortunately he dedicated most of his energy to fight the “Medinah” than to do kiruv.
#10: Torahjew1826 is a strange name for someone who wants proofs from Tanach! As Jews we believe that the Torah includes Torah She’ll Ba’al Peh as well as Torah shebichsav.
And of course the State was created with Hashem’s will but that doesn’t mean anything. There is Bechira in this world. That is the will of Hashem. Without a camparison, the holocaust was also Hashem’s will. Doesn’t make it right.
One more point. Although not all Gedolim subscribed to the “theory” of ג’ שבועות there were many Gedolim who did believe it is an issue. Look at מכתבים ומאמרים from Harav Schach Zt”l for example. And I think most of Chareidi Jewry would believe that it is a legitimate מחלוקות!
stop blaming R’ Yoel for these crackos acting out. R’ Yoel di dnot HATE other jews like these sickos. Furthermore, my question to all the nutcases on this list that quote R’ Yoel for their hatred.
Did you ever go to the kosel? They claim R’ Yoel said not to go.
Does your wife shave her head?
Does she wear bullet proof stockings?
Do you eat OU food?
etc etc.
My point is don’t only pick the things that work for you because you want to act on your hatred.
I also fail to understand how these morons think there will be kovod shabbos if teh arab terrorists have control of yerushalyim. Are they really that crazy to even think life was betetr under the arabs. Maybe all the protestors get medical assiatnce. Hopefully they don’t have medicaid from my state.
#35 your argumaent about the Satmar Rav being mistaken about the state of Israel does not hold much water. He was not against the state because he felt Yeshivos etc couldn’t thrive there. He held it was wrong and against Torah law and that doesn’t change by the fact that there are so many shomrei Torah U’mitzvos there. And yes the Satmar Rav was one of the foremost builders of Torah Jewry in the United States. Mainly in the Chassidic communities. It is foolish to argue that point.
And all the people complaining about the Satmar Rav’s lack of Kiruv efforts are not understanding the shitah of many, many Gedolim. Can someone tell me what Kiruv efforts R’ Boruch Ber Leibowitz or R’ Chaim Ozer or the Chofetz Chaim put into Kiruv other than sign a few letters? There was and is a shitah that when a fire is burning you try to save what you have as opposed to trying to build new. Kiruv Krovim as opposed to Kiruv Rechokim if you will. In todays world Chassidim (and also the Yeshiva world to a great degree) does not concentrate on Kiruv Rechokim but rather on keeping what we have strong and well. You may disagree but there are definitely great Gedolim who believe that way.
I would like to see the medine peacefully dismantled for all the damage it is doing to kedushas eretz Yisroel. However, I do not think this can happen or will happen. Therefore, the only goal is to bring Moshiach who indeed will dismantle the medine and replace its corruption with the ultimate kedusha of Malchus Beis Dovid.
However, what these clowns are doing is not in any way increasing kedusha anywhere nor does their shtus d’klipa bring Moshiach one step closer. They are perhaps one order of sanity above the clowns who visit Teheran from time to time but that is not saying much.
Rabbi Fulop is considered an extremist even within Satmar circles, and I do not think either Satmarer Rebbe/Rov (Wburg or Monroe) approved of this demonstration.
The Toldos Ahron Rebbe said that only someone on the level of R’ Amram Bloy ZTL ZYA who really feels the pain of chillul Shabbos can call himself a kanoi and act accordingly. These leitzonim are very, very far from that madreigo and there is no one of that level known today.
Thay did yesterdy a car picketing around 1st and second ave. what a kidish hashem it was.
should this nobal acts be mekarev the geuleh
R. Yoel headed numerous protests like this one.
He instructed his talmidim not to go to the kosel. He never thought it was ossur.
Ditto about shaving hair etc.
There are volumes to write about the main issue but this is not the place to do it.
I believe ובמושב לצים לא ישב has acquired a new pshat in today’s cyber-world. I thought I could reach out “across the aisle” with serious discussion, but I was wrong. So this is my last post here, bl”n. Be well, my friends. Search for truth sincerely and you’ll find it.
And to my achim ledaya: Stop wasting your time with these leitzim. As we know from many seforim, Moshiach won’t come until the klipa of Zionism will vanish from the earth. I believe the greatest “kiruv” is to explain the shita of VeYoel Moshe to otherwise ehliche Yidden, but this is not the place to do it. Talk to serious bnei torah or tmimusdige mizrachists who are disillusioned by their religion of Zionism, and your time will be well spent.
The isur to have a land before Mushiach comes is a clear Gemureh and if you want to rely only on pesikim from tenach you are considered a TZIDOIKY, (Just for the fact; Chazal discovered the isur to have a land before Meshiach comes from pesiky tenach,)
I will not keep going back and forth בל”נ with this simple séance.
I am tired of seeing the comments here on “Yeshiva World” against Erliche Yidden. I remember about a year ago Rav Elyashuv said something against shaitels and YWN closed the comments so people would not attack him. Why does YWN let people attack erliche yidden like Rav Menashe Fulop?
Well, I don’t know if the violence of the protests has died down (it was quieter this past shabbat). I am just wondering how representative this board is of the Hareidi population in general.
I am wondering how people think that they can use the terminology “Nazis” “Mengele” “Gestapo” etc, and say things like “tziyonim ym”sh”–
and then hope for any possible reconciliation between the various parts of the Jewish people.
Personally, I think that this type of language is reprehensible, and should not be tolerated. I would not regard any one who used it or sanctioned it as a “Gadol”, “Posek” or any other term of kavod that our religion offers. Real Gdolim and poskim do not sue such language when referring to other Jews, not matter the differences between them.
This is especially true when it is used in demonstrations such as the one that is the topic of this thread. These people use the same terminology as Hamas and Ahmedinajad, and you can believe that they will be widely quoted for antisemitic propaganda. And if you think that it is only anti-Israel (rather than antisemitic) propaganda, well, that too is the “logic” of Hamas and Hezbollah. Please keep in mind that these are the people who bombed the Argentinian Jewish Community Center, and their missiles make no distinction between the Zionists and non-Zionists. The “Erlicher Yiden” who adopt their terminology have chosen sides with those who wish to destroy Am Yisrael.
So be it. I will not return their hate in kind. But I will not support their institutions, any more than I would support an Islamic school in Gaza that preaches the same thing.
אמר ר’ אלעזר אם אתם מקיימין את השבועה מוטב ואם לאו אני מתיר את בשרכם כצבאות וכאילות השדה (כתובות קי”’א)
Folks, do know the language Hitler ימ”ש uses to expresses his aspiration in his shameful book MEIN KAMPF”?
(Trans. to English) I will kill them (the jews) like the deer on the street!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hashem should have mercy on us.
People, do you know the definition of a shevieh? That is not just a story at all.
That applies, big time.
עי’ מהרי”ל (נצח ישראל פרק כ”ד) וברמב”ם (אגרת תימן) ןבראשונים ואחרונים כתובות ק”י-קי”ב ועוד ועוד
you will found it there very clear, (To write that the shevies is just agadete gives me a clear picture of what a Talmud Chuchem you are)
וז”ל המהרש”א: שלא יעלו ישראל בחומה- וודאי דרשות לכל אחד מישראל לעלות לא”י, אלא שלא יעלו ביד חזקה ולבנות להם חומות ירושלים
Thanks for the reference.
There is a תשובת הרמב”ם to קהילת מרסייל where he writs very clear the איסור of the ג’ שבועות להלכה
Now in תשובת רדב”ז חלק ז’ סימן כ”ה he wrote that the תשובות of the Rambam is more להלכה
וז”ל אפי’ אם תרצה לומר שהתשובה (הרמב”ם) חלוקה על הפ’ על תשובה יש לנו לסמוך שהיא הלכה למעשה. עכ”ל הרדב”ז
Now in this case its not even a סתירה to ספר היד he just not bring it up there and the reason why עי’ בארוכות בספה”ק ויואל משה (מאמר ג’ שבועות סימן ל”א)
So that is clear that there are several פוסקים ובכללם הרמב”ם that brings the ג’ שבועות להלכה and there are no one that says that it is not להלכה
in such a case there is a clear advise in Bies Yosef that this does apply להלכה
עי’ ב”י או”ח סי’ קנ”ט מה שהביא מהתה”ד
All Gedoilem and Rabbis zy`u were against the Zionist Movment;
And when I say Gedolim I do include the Great Brisker Ruv Zt”l and Reb Elchonen Wasserman Zt”l, and any other Rosh Yeshiva from that generation. This goes beyond any geographic boundaries, And does not apply only to Gedoilim of Hungarian or Poland. There is an old syfer named תיקון עולם that was published before the war II. You could find there a list of over 150 Gedolim from that particular generation that all of them are writing clearly in agreement with Satmar Ruv ZT”L. even after the War II when Klal Yisroel was so distress from all what they went through and there was a big NESOEN of $$$ etc. etc. there was still numerous Gedolim that agreed with the Satmar Ruv 100 percent, You know that very well.
Satmar Rabbi Z”l always prayed and asked hid followers to pray that the Zionist Medineh should be released by Meshiech with no cost for Yiddish Blood.
Should we all be Zoiche to Bias HaMeshiech B”B
The poskim considered the Isur of the Shulosh Shevies ביהרג ואל יעבור
עי’ מהר”ל, נצח פכ”ד, וז”ל אף אם יהיו רוצים להמית אותם בעינוים קשים וכו
There is also a syfer זכות אבות from the Guen and Tzadik reb Avruhom Galanty Zata’l תלמיד הרמ”ק (See in ש”ה להחיד”א about the gadlis of this Tzadik) and he writs the following;
וז”ל. אל תתוודע לרשות כלו’ להשביע השבעות כנגדם ולמרוד באומות ולצאת למלחמה כנגדם, כמו שהעלו על לב אנשי פורטיגאל (בימי גלות שפאניא, אשר הי’ גזירת שמד, והרגו אלפים מישראל במתות משונות) ורצו להרים ראש להרגם ולללכד המלוכה, והי’ שם זקן אחד ושאל ע”י שם א’ והשיבוהו אם תעורו ואם תעוררו וכמו שפירשו ז”ל ג’ שבועות השביע הקב”ה את ישראל, אחת שלא ימרדו וגו’
The above applies to the עצם הקמת המדינה besides all איסורים the Medineh creates, including the ג’ עבירות that each of them is ביהרג ואל יעבור
Should the Klipeh Hatzioni become extinct Vanished and released by Meshiach Tzkyne, with no cost of Yiddish Blood, and we should all be Zoiche to תשובה שלימה