28 Responses

1. According to the UN authorities, most cases of this flu are mild. The serious cases involve people who have a serious illness already.

   Here is an excerpt from an interview with a prominent scientist who was deeply involved in developing vaccines for a prominent pharmaceutical company.

   Q: There are medical historians who state that the overall decline of illnesses was not due to vaccines.
   A: I know. For a long time, I ignored their work.
   Q: Why?
   A: Because I was afraid of what I would find out. I was in the business of developing vaccines. My livelihood depended on continuing that work.
   Q: And then?
   A: I did my own investigation.
   Q: What conclusions did you come to?
   A: The decline of disease is due to improved living conditions.
   Q: What conditions?
   A: Cleaner water. Advanced sewage systems. Nutrition. Fresher food. A decrease in poverty. Germs may be everywhere, but when you are healthy, you don’t contract the diseases as easily.
   Q: What did you feel when you completed your own investigation?
   A: Despair. I realized I was working a sector based on a collection of lies.
   Q: Are some vaccines more dangerous than others?
   A: Yes. The DPT shot, for example. The MMR. But some lots of a vaccine are more dangerous than other lots of the same vaccine. As far as I’m concerned, all vaccines are dangerous.
   Q: Why?
   A: Several reasons. They involve the human immune system in a process that tends to compromise immunity. They can actually cause the disease they are supposed to prevent. They can cause other diseases than the ones they are supposed to prevent.
   Q: Why are we quoted statistics which seem to prove that vaccines have been tremendously successful at wiping out diseases?
   A: Why? To give the illusion that these vaccines are useful. If a vaccine suppresses visible symptoms of a disease like measles, everyone assumes that the vaccine is a success. But, under the surface, the vaccine can harm the immune system itself. And if it causes other diseases — say, meningitis — that fact is masked, because no one believes that the vaccine can do that. The connection is overlooked.
   Q: It is said that the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox in England.
   A: Yes. But when you study the available statistics, you get another picture.
   Q: Which is?
   A: There were cities in England where people who were not vaccinated did not get smallpox. There were places where people who were vaccinated experienced smallpox epidemics. And smallpox was already on the decline before the vaccine was introduced.
   Q: So you’re saying that we have been treated to a false history.
   A: Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying. This is a history that has been cooked up to convince people that vaccines are invariably safe and effective.

2. Here is the relevant portion of the interview with the retired vaccine scientist, where he talks aout autism and mental deficiencies caused by vaccines:

   Q: To avoid any confusion, I’d like you to review, once more, the disease problems that vaccines can cause. Which diseases, how that happens.

   A: We are basically talking about two potential harmful outcomes. One, the person gets the disease from the vaccine. He gets the disease which the vaccine is supposed to protect him from. Because, some version of the disease is in the vaccine to begin with. Or two, he doesn’t get THAT disease, but at some later time, maybe right away, maybe not, he develops another condition which is caused by the vaccine. That condition could be autism, what’s called autism, or it could be some other disease like meningitis. He could become mentally disabled.

   Q: Is there any way to compare the relative frequency of these different outcomes?

   A: No. Because the follow-up is poor. We can only guess. If you ask, out of a population of a hundred thousand children who get a measles vaccine, how many get the measles, and how many develop other problems from the vaccine, there is a no reliable answer. That is what I’m saying. Vaccines are superstitions. And with superstitions, you don’t get facts you can use. You only get stories, most of which are designed to enforce the superstition. But, from many vaccine campaigns, we can piece together a narrative that does reveal some very disturbing things. People have been harmed. The harm is real, and it can be deep and it can mean death. The harm is NOT limited to a few cases, as we have been led to believe.In the US, there are groups of mothers who are testifying about autism and childhood vaccines. They are coming forward and standing up at meetings.They are essentially trying to fill in the gap that has been created by the researchers and doctors who turn their backs on the whole thing.

   Q: Let me ask you this. If you took a child in, say, Boston and you raised that child with good nutritious food and he exercised every day and he was loved by his parents, and he didn’t get the measles vaccine, what would be his health status compared with the average child in Boston who eats poorly and watches five hours of TV a day and gets the measles vaccine?

   A: Of course there are many factors involved, but I would bet on the better health status for the first child. If he gets measles, if he gets it when he is nine, the chances are it will be much lighter than the measles the second child might get. I would bet on the first child every time.

3. The suggestion that there is any link between Autism and vaccinations has long since been debunked to the point even the courts agree there is no basis. A reference to a nameless, anonymous “retired vaccine scientist” does little to add to meaningful discussion.

   The US Center for Disease Control has a comprehensive article on the subject. http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/vaccines.htm

4. PLEASE stop spreading disinformation!

   As #3 has mentioned, there is no basis to link Autism with any vaccine.

   “Deepthinker” (#1 and #2) does not say the name of the scientist, because it’s certainly not a scientist at all or it’s just a discredited scientist such the famous MD from the UK, who “found out” that MMR causes autism, while his studies were actually proven to be fabricated. You’re not a deepthinker at all, you are spreading deadly lies. H’ ierachem on you for doing this.

   Most studies done show no basis for this theory, and the few that seemed to find a correlation were flawed in their methodology or unrepresentative of the population.

   These types of articles make naive people refrain from vaccinating, and as a result, people are currently dying from preventable diseases.

   SHAME ON YW FOR POSTING THIS!

5. Let’s be clear: there is NO link at all between vaccines and autism. It is grossly irresponsible of the author to suggest that there is. Children are getting serious diseases because the myth is scaring some parents into not giving the vaccine.

   Thhe article states: “According to many published reports, there are claims of various vaccinations bringing out genes predisposed to the neurological disorder.” This is just not true. There was ONE such paper, and most of the authors have retracted. There have been NUMEROUS papers debunking it.

6. Dear dmbtzh (no.3):

   I understand your skepticism. In your place, I would be skeptical too.

   But, I have studied this issue for a very long time, and there are just too many tragic incidents that have occurred right after vaccination for it to be mere coincidence.

   The history of the CDC is not comforting. They always deny reports of problems intially, until the evidence is so overwhelming that they must grudgingly admit that there ma be a problem.

   Ditto for the FDA. Drugs are always claimed to be “safe and effective” until about 1,000 people die from them. Then, they are pulled from the market, after the drug companies have made a few billion dolars.

7. People are so stupid and naive, these families saw with there own eyes what happened hours after there children got the shots, and you care about study’s? there is no proof either that there is a god, will you bring me court decisions? what does the court have to do with this? they will decide if I saw something with my own eyes or not? are they going to decide that there is no god ’cause there is no proof? come on.

8. Beware also, all of you who are ready to dismiss any connection between vaccines and autism, because of certain scientific studies. Make sure those studies were done by impartial researchers, and not funded by the drug-companies.

   Often it is the drug company producing the vaccine who is funding the study to show there is no connection.

9. Any medical treatment has risks as well as benefits. The benfits of vaccination are many and undeniable. Does anyone know of one medical researcher or MD who does not have his or her children vaccinated? That is because theose people, who are well informed have no doubt about the benefits of vaccination.

   The major risks of vaccination are allergic reactions. These are relatively few in number.

   After the inital studies “linking” autism and vaccinations, a number of independent studies were done in several countries. No link was found. These studeis were not funded by pharmaceutical companies, but through government sources–and the scientists were completely independent.

   In other words, many independent scientific studies have been done, at considerable expense, searching for a link between autism and vaccination. None have been found.

   Should anyone wish for citations of these studies, I can provide them upon request. They have been published in top peer-reviewed medical journals.

10. The issue of vaccines and autism is not necessarily about the vaccine itself but about the unnecessary additive called Thimerosol which is essentially Mercury, a widely recognized neurotoxin. The FDA, CDC and other US authorities have refused to forbid this preservative. There is alot of evidence that this preservative has contributed to a host of neurological disorders. This is a major coverup by all federal agencies. Every person should read the book “Evidence of Harm” by David Kirby.

11. To zman,
    It’s zman (time) to stop the lies. Also, I don’t have zman (time) to read fiction. BTW, the US gov. stopped the use of mercury in vaccines because of the autism moms. There is not a shred of proof connecting mercury to autism. The gov. was just being PC. Do you eat Tuna or any other sea fish? Most people do even though they’re digesting mercury. You have to injest a significant amount for it to be toxic.

12. The reason my boys and I will NOT get the swine flu vaccine is that I heard on a TV news program that a side effect of this shot could be death so no way would I let anyone inject that into my children or me! My kids have had their immunizations but I do not see the proof that they cause no harm. My older son’s autism could have been triggered by his MMR. Why was it that when I birthed my second son completely natural without even an IV that the hospital insisted on giving him a hepititis b shot when he was only a few hours old? When I’d requested this same shot from my doctor years earlier, they would not even let me have it and yet my newborn infant HAD to have it before I could take him home? I’ll never understand the urgency there. Jane Patterson, Winston-Salem, NC

13. Actually, a number of the studies that I mentioned included mercury-based preservatives as well. No correlation was found between these preservatives and autism.

    AS I posted, you would be hard pressed to find a medical researcher or MD who would not have their child vaccinated. You may propose all the conspiracy theories you wish, but they do not hold water. What do you think that the motivation would be? Do you think that those researchers receive money for skewing their results a certain way? This is utter nonsense.

    And by the way, thes studies that I mentioned were carried out in a number of countries by a number of laboratories and were completely independent of each other.

    Reading books by conspiracy theorists is no substitute for reading original scientific/medical literature (peer reviewed by other scientists). If you do not have access to this literature, your doctor does.

14. There is a tremendous financial factor involved. Vaccinations are the medical profession’s ‘bread and butter’. In addition, Western medicine is predicated on fairly G-dless beliefs. They must ‘do’ something because the human body is a pathological accident waiting to happen.

    You cannot shoot foreign, powerful, protein-based antigens into the human bloodstream without there being some side effects. Anyone who believes otherwise is just naive.

    The question for the parent is: have you weighed the possible consequences of the vaccination against its proposed benefits?

    We can’t afford to act thoughtlessly and trust blindly when dealing with such powerful drugs.

15. By the way, David Kirby who wrote Evidence of Harm, is a respected New York Times reporter who ammassed a great deal of well-referenced sources for his book and included many resources from conventional medical journals and practitioners.

    I doubt anyone could call him a ‘conspiracy theorist’. Ultimately, he does not conclude that all vaccinations be banned, rather, in true academic style, he presents the evidence and allows the reader to decide.

16. Just to add a bit of explanation: the symptoms of autism arise at about the same age that vaccines are given (e.g. MMR). That’s why some parents see their child being vaccinated, followed shortly by symptoms of autism. That’s why you need careful scientific studies to establish causality.

    The scientific studies have been done and there is NO relationship between vaccines and autism.

    Severe autism is devastating, and as a parent it is truly frightening. But it is grossly irresponsible to allow the spread of disease by not vaccinating your children, just because of this myth.

    Please, vaccinate your children!

17. I would imagine that many of the people on this forum are too young to remember polio. People were afraid to take their children to public places–the incidence of infection was quite high. Thanks to HKB”H (working through modern medicine in the hands of nice Jewish boys like Albert Sabin and Jonas Salk) people in the western world do not have to worry about polio these days.

    Vaccines are not the mdedical world’s bread-and-butter; there is very little profit to be made there. And as far as Mr. Kirby goes, he makes his profit out of sensationalizing conspiracy theories, like it or not. Note that he has no training in any medical field. why do you think that there is a consensus among medical professionals about vaccinations? Do you think that they would put their own children at risk? (And these are trained people, who know the medical risks and benefits.)

    Taking a reporter’s word over that of medical proifessionals on a medical question is like taking a reporteer’s word over that of a Rav on a religious question. Personally, I would go with the trained professional every time. You have a religous question? Ask a Rav. You have a medical question? Ask a Doctor. Sure, there will be differences of opinion among doctors, just as there are among Rabbanim. But about some questions, there is a consensus in the profession. For Shabbat, we light candles and say Kiddush. For disease prevention, we vaccinate. Those are the basics.

18. H’ ierachem on us. So many ignoramuses on our midst. H’ ierachem.
    Please vaccinate rabbosai.

19. Don’t you think that it is possible that SOME children’s immune system can’t handle the live diseases,mercury, aluminum, and the other toxins that are in the vaccines? The vaccines that are given in an unbelieveable dose in the first year of a child’s life? It is amazing to me how mothers would NEVER think of giving their child honey or cow’s milk in the first few months of life, but don’t think twice about injecting their child with live viruses. I am not saying not to vaccinate, or that you should vaccinate, but to be aware of the issues involved in this debate. The amount of anecdotal evidence involved in this issue is not something to be passed off as “conspiracy theorists”. What there SHOULD be is a test of the child’s immune system before dumping all those toxins into his body. Check and see of the child can handle it before just giving it to him. 20 years ago, autism was 1 in 10,000. Now it is 1 in 150. These are not numbers of a genetic disease, which is passed down from one generation to the next. There is a genetic vulnerability and an environmental cause that is causing this incredible jump in numbers. Just because researchers have not determined exact environmental causes yet is not a reason to so quickly disregard theories that so many parents are claiming. There are so many benefits to vaccines, of course it is helping to eradicate some of the scariest diseases we have seen, but there are still risks…at least know what they are.

20. The things that you (lol24)propose are not so simple. First of all, devising a strees test for the immune system is difficult, and itself is not danger free. Second, the amount of stress that the immune system can handle changes over time. That is why different vaccinations are given at different ages. Of course there are individual differences in peoples’ reactions to the vaccines. However, the vaccines have been determined (by testing) to be safe for the vast majority of people. Again, don’t you think that the medical professionals bring their children to be vaccinated at the same ages that we recommend for ther children?

    Aside form the difficulty in developing the test that you recommend, there is cost involoved. It would be prohibitively expensive. Keep in mind that there is a finite amount of money devoted by people to health care–whether it is the private individual, or insurance companies, or the government. The amount of money is still finite. What you propose would be prohibitively expensive.

    Keep ion mind that the principal dangers of vaccination are hypersensitivity to the vaccine and allergic reactions. The vaccines are desgned to minimize the risks of these two reactions. Now it is impossible to minimize the risk to zero. This is true of any drug or treatment. A child can have a bad reaction to children’s tylenol as well. However, there cases are extremely rare.

    The autism/vaccine correlation has be investigated thoroughly–several times, by independent researchers–and found to have no validity. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that the individual cases are not complete studies. If a child develops autisitc symtoms at age 2–after being vaccinated at 18 months–we all know of cases where the vaccine is blamed. Well, what else was new in the child’s behavior. did he start eating a new type of food? Is the vaccination the only thing that was new in his life? Perhaps he had a gene that was activated at that age? We do not know enough about autism to understand the causes fully. Yet this issue–the correlation with vaccination–has been studied in detail with quite negative results.

21. Good point, lol24. Obviously some children seem to tolerate the vaccines better than others. And their immune system is likely the indicator. The thimerosol, by the way, was supposed to have been ‘phased out’ but still was found in certain flu vaccines until recently. Parents: you are ultimately responsible; you need to be informed. (It’s important to note that even those children who tolerate the vaccines may not necessarily benefit from them–their bodies may simply be better able to detoxify.)

    The Amish do not vaccinate their children and there are no cases of autism among them.

22. To lol24,
    You write like you’re educated -so tell me -how many live viruses shots does the medical profession give in the first year? I bet you don’t know! You also write we should develop a test to see how individuals will respond to each vaccine. Great idea! Go into your lab and develop one or if you’re not able to because you’re not a scientist, pay a research company millions of dollars to do it for you. BTW, I agree with your etiology of Autism, except for the vaccine part, but you know what has really changed in the last 20 years -our diet has never been so bad. I’ve seen “people” put soda in baby bottles.

23. I think the bottom line is that there is no substitute for becoming well informed on the issue of vaccinations. There is no mitzva to trust blindly in doctors. As parents, we have a responsibility to our children and need to thoroughly study all the pertinent information before allowing our children to be vaccinated.

24. And how will we be well-informed? By reading books (published for profit) by reporters?

    How will you study all the pertinent information? will you read the original source material, such as peer-reviewed articles? Or should one trust in their health professional?

    Who do you go when your child becomes sick? Do you see a doctor? Or someone else? Where do you turn when the child becomes (chalila) really ill? Do you take him/her to a hospital?

    Just as one chooses a rav and then paskins by that rav, it is wise to do that with a medical professional as well. Do you have such a medical professional attending your children? Do you take your children for yearly checkups? What does that medical professional say? Does he or she recommend vaccinations? Let me guess……

    Vaccinationas are, of course, a public health issue. In many cases, schools will not let a child attend without vaccination documantation, and rightly so. In my opinion, if someone contracts a disaease such as rubella, and has not been vaccinated, that person should pay the full cost of care for the disease, including hospitalization. One should not expect society to cover one’s medical expenses if one is unwilling to do the basics themselves. In cases where the state offers medical coverage (such as Israel), this is an issue. It may become one in the US as well.

    And no, there is no mitzva to blindly trust any human being. However, common sense and Judaism go hand-in-hand. We are advised (rather strongly) to teach our children to swim, and not rely exclusively on HKB”H to ake sure that they do not fall into the water. We have the responsiblity to provide the best possible care for our children–and in the vast majority of cases, Western Medicine is the best method to do just that.

25. You can actually read whatever material you like , medical journals with peer-reviewed articles if you are so inclined, and anything else available on the subject. You will find that most authors who address the subject have thoroughly researched their topic and include references throughout their work whether they come from a pro-vaccination or question-the- vaccinations standpoint.

    As for the profit factor, vaccinations provide huge profits for the drug companies who make them, and for the doctors who administer them.

    We are commanded to heed our Torah leaders; I know of no such commandement to ‘trust’ in doctors. Is your doctor willing to openly discuss the issues and treat you as an intelligent inquirer, or does he dismiss your questions out of hand? Much of what passes as medical science, vaccinations included, are actually not that difficult for the layman to comprehend. Beware of doctors that treat their patients as intellectually inferior, claiming ‘you wouldn’t understand anyway’, or calling anything other than conventional medicine ‘quackery’. You deserve respect–and the right to question your doctor.

    I can conveniently choose from an array of health professionals depending on what ails me or my family members. There are good chiroproctors, herbalists, naturopaths, nutritionists, and yes, conventional medical doctors. Sometimes their treatments will work complementarily. It’s important to discuss with whatever healer you are seeing any other therapy you may be undertaking.

    There are actually doctors who will tell you what they think or recommend, say regarding vaccinations, but leave the final decision up to you. One such doctor was Dr. Robert Mendelson, a pediatrician who passed away a number of years ago. His excellent book, “How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of your Doctor” is an excellent resource, by the way.

    Autism is not the only disorder that has been linked to vaccinations. Questions have been raised about the epidemic numbers of children with learning disabilities, ADD/ADHD/ and a host of autoimmune diseases as well as allergies and the introduction of powerful toxins into the bloodstreams of young children, often with not-yet-developed immune systems.

    If you fear your child will contract one of the diseases that vaccinations are supposed to prevent, and have no alternative but to believe that the vaccinations will prevent them, then you are a prime candidate for vaccinations. However, some of the diseases vaccinations are meant to stave off are mostly benign, treatable diseases such as measles, chicken pox and mumps.

    Either way, I see no excuse for not becoming informed. Even the remote possiblity that there may be a linkage between vaccinations and other chronic, destructive, possibly fatal diseases, should prompt responsible parents to do their homework.

26. No correlative or causative link has been found between vaccinations or any of the disease that Raisy mentioned in any medical study –and becuase of the concern of people like Raisy, many such studies have been conducted.

    Vaccines are one of the least profit-producing product of drug companies. Many companies will no longer produce vaccines becuase there is little profit in them—remember the shortage a couple of yeas ago? Doctors also make next-to-no profit on vaccinations.

    Raisy is correct about one thing–the obligatiion to being informed. However, much of the information that she has presemnted is just wrong. Medica\l publications are peer-reviewed, and doctors receive no recompense for publishing. The senssationalist books that she has cited concerning autism are profit-driven, written by nonprofessionals, and not peer reviewed. the information in them is incorrect at best and sheker at worst.

    Finally, Raisy proposes that many of the vaccines that we use stave off “benign” diseases. This is absolute nonsense, and the only reason that Raisy can write such things is because vaccination programs have so reduced their incidence that we can treat the small numbers of cases that arise. Raisy, I propose that you are realtively young–ask your grandparents about measles epidemics. People, especially children died in such epidemics within living memory. Mumps benign? Tell that to a man who is exposed to a child with mumps and loses the ability to procreate. Would you like that to happen to your 22-year-old son (chalila)?

    These diseases are not benign. With the help of HKB”H, western medicine has lessened their impact to the point where we can be confident the majority of our children surviving the infectious diseases. The main weapon that has been used has been vaccinations, and some people here are proposing discarding that weapon. that type of thinking is misinformed at best, and evil at worst, as it will certainly cause an increase in child mortality.

    People who refuse vacccinations for their chilldrn endanger not only their children but those of other people. Schoools should consider this when admitting children, as should summer camps and other public places. And parents who do not vaccinate should pay the full medical costs for children who contract the “benign” disease–including hospitalization if needed–not hope that the society will share those costs.

    Society has a right to determine which healthcare measures will be subsidized–and which will not. Ideally, these decisions are best made by the ones who understand the mot about the issues. These issues include biochemistry, physiology, immunology, virology, and a plethora of other topics, and they are learned in Universities and Medical Schools. In other words, clinician and biomedical researchers, who are most knowledgable about the topic, should decide. Of course, nobody has the right to decide for your child. But society does have a right to decide which children will be given access to public facilities, and which medical treatments will be subsidized.

27. Raisy- You claim to informed, so how come you are so misinformed. Reading fiction works by doctors, doesn’t make you informed. You claim -measles, mumps and chicken pox are benign, treatable diseases. Acc. to the CDC & WHO this is a lie. Here are some statistics from these two orgs. -Measles kills almost 1 million children worldwide; Mumps- Case fatality -1/10000, meningitis- 15% of people who get mumps; Chicken pox – 1/40,000 die, 1/400 require hospitalization.
    Even if you would be telling the truth about all those illnesses related to vaccines, you still would be mechuyav to vaccinate acc. to the torah because nothing you mentioned is life threatining, except for allegies. And most docs have medicine to treat this in their offices.

28. So much for the NIH and CDC claims thimerosol–a mercury based preservative used in vaccines–had been phased out of usage. The following is a quote from the New York Times Health website:

    “Flu vaccine packaged in a multidose vial contains thimerosal, a preservative that prevents contamination of the vial during repeated use. One dose from a multiuse vial contains about 25 micrograms of mercury. By comparison, a tuna fish sandwich contains about 28 micrograms of mercury. Repeated studies have shown thimerosal to be safe. However, people who want to minimize mercury exposure can ask for a vaccine in a single-dose package, which has only trace amounts. Thimerosal is not used in the production of FluMist.”
    (“As Flu Vaccine Arrives for the Season, Some Questions and Answers”
    By TARA PARKER-POPE
    Published: October 9, 2009)

    What is neglected in this answer is whether babies will be receiving this vaccine. Will these infants be tested before the injections to see whether they are from those whose bodies have difficulty ejecting the mercury toxins and in preventing this toxic metal from crossing the blood-brain barrier possibly causing neurological damage?