By Rabbi Yehuda Levin for YWN:
Governor Paterson, legislative leaders, politicians and activists have put same gender marriage on the fast track with the goal of presenting it as a fait accompli before the “shame” celebrations in late June. Thus, it is imperative that the Orthodox Torah community understand the impact such legislation would potentially have on our daily lives. Furthermore, we should be aware of how the great Torah leaders of this past generation reacted to the Toeiva political agenda. Finally and most importantly: What can and must, we the ordinary citizens, do to assure that this measure not be voted into law?
Severity:
From a Torah perspective, the severity of same gender marriage legislation can not be over exaggerated. The Midrash Rabah at the end of Parshas Bereishis states that the final straw, which led to Hashem (G-D) ordaining the Flood of Noach, was when mankind began writing same gender marriage contracts. Furthermore, even secular society throughout the ages has used the term sodomy to remind us that the final straw which led to the destruction of Sodom was when her citizens surrounded Lot’s house, demanding he surrender his guest “so that we may know them” (Bereishis/Genesis 19:5; see Rashi).
The Torah tells us that Hashem’s ultimate struggle intergenerationally is with Amalek. The commentary Rashi (Devarim 25:18) defines the misdeeds of Amalek as Mishkav Zachor, Toeiva.
What Gedolim Did:
When the first “Toeiva rights” legislation was enacted in Dade County, Florida, a nondescript, non-orthodox Jew from off the street went to Rav Moshe Feinstiens’s Z”TL apartment in the Lower East Side and explained to him what the bill and agenda were about. Rav Feinstien immediately instructed Rabbi Hirsch Ginsburg, the director of Agudas HaRabonim to send letters to each Dade County Commissioner urging them to reverse this legislation. Rav Moshe signed the letter(s) Moses Feinstein (in English). When I arranged for Rav Moshe to receive a letter on this subject signed by Rav Avigdor Miller and the Debrciner Rav Z”TL, he again chose to respond on Agudas HaRabonim stationary (rather than on that of Agudath Israel whose Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah he headed).
He wrote in part that “it’s a holy obligation for everyone to do all in their power to impress on the politicians to vote against such legislation.” He also requested of “all who heed our words to personally fill the City Council chambers for all the days of the hearings to sanctify G-D’s name by showing all nations manifestly that G-D’s people loath abomination.”
Just imagine what Rav Feinstien would have said about same gender marriage, which is so much more severe than just “Rights”! The fact that aside from a press release or two, the Orthodox organizations are not at all following Rav Feinstien’s clear instructions and vigorously opposing this is quite puzzling, disappointing, and dangerous to say the least.
Impact of the Legislation:
Same gender couples would have thousands of benefits heretofore granted to heterosexual couples. School text books and educational curriculum would be replete with text, pictures, etc…requiring respect for this relationship, and insisting that it is proper irregardless of religious teaching. Government funding for educational institutions may eventually require adherence to these laws as a condition for receiving any state funding.
Anyone dealing with government, government agencies contracts, etc…as well as many professions which require state licensees and certification may have to signify understanding and acceptance of this new policy. Similarly, public advertisement of all types will constantly feature same gender couples in intimate romantic poses to both sell products and continue to foster “respect” for these new “relationships”. Government will actively promote such advertisement in their publications and publicity as well.
The tax-exempt status of all organizations which would take a public stand against this kind of marriage would probably be withdrawn like those of organizations deemed to be promoting hate or racism. If school children would call this new marriage immoral, would their institutions receive textbook aid or school bus service? What about the synagogues which would be sued by same gender couples with adopted children who want membership in the “hypocritical” synagogue which doesn’t exclude from membership people who are lax regarding kosher laws or other orthodox precepts, but insists on discriminating against same gender ”Orthodox” couples. How many times can synagogues and schools cover the cost of expensive litigation initiated by ACLU and other anti-family well funded legal groups before they surrender?
Camps, restaurants, wedding halls, and communal organizations will be forced to accommodate customers, clients and employees who insist on bringing their spouses into these venues just to “poke you in the eye” or “re-educate” you as to the “new marriage”. In New Mexico, a photographer who didn’t want to photograph a domestic partnership ceremony, was hauled before the State Human Rights Commission, and fined thousands of dollars…
In Pennsylvania, people who held signs opposing this behavior were initially jailed and fined excessively because a court held them in defiance of a State “hate speech” ordinance. Imagine the chilling effect on religious institutions and people where same gender marriage is the law! The idea of carving out narrow “exceptions” for religious institutions will in now way mitigate the “living hell” that religious people will suffer in their daily lives.
Dear Reader, these are not scare tactics. Go on the net and obtain the articles by Mark Stern of the American Jewish Congress regarding same gender marriage and the threat to religious liberty. Download the 47 page report of the symposium on this subject by the Beckett Foundation, and then ask yourself why our own organizations are not informing us of the upcoming dangers, G-D forbid, and why they are not fighting this and forging alliances with other groups who oppose this!
What Should We Be Doing?
We must demand that our organizations: Aguda, O.U., Young Israel, Chabad, Chasidic groups, Mizrachi, Modern Orthodox, etc… coalesce quickly, develop in depth talking points, and have them read, posted and distributed in every synagogue through the state. Each mispallel should be asked to sign a letter or petition, opposing this legislation. In each synagogue and neighborhood, a delegation of Rabbis, synagogue officers, anyone who is a “macher” or connected to politicians or a donor to their campaigns should demand prompt face to face meetings with the politicians and indicate that we are drawing a line in the sand! No exceptions, no narrow carve outs!
Whoever does not vote against this most harmful legislation will face a primary challenge. Believe it, if our Rabbis and leaders will encourage primaries, would could have tens to hundreds of petition carriers in each Orthodox community from Rochester to Rockaway. We could coalesce with like-minded Catholics, Evangelicals, etc…and drive tens of politicians out of office! If there was an unanimity of the aforementioned organizational leaders, and a quick education of our people, this could happen.
Remember when 25-50,000 Jews converged on Wall Street to recite Psalms for the security of our brethren in Israel? Remember when considerably more converged on Washington?
Why can’t we do the same for our own security and way of life next Sunday on Wall Street, and the following week in Albany, as well as daily in our synagogues? Aren’t we Jews supposed to show mesiras nefesh for Hashem’s Honor and code of Holiness?
Why can Reverend State Senator Reuben Diaz face down everyone and everything to oppose this legislation while our leaders are mostly silent? Please call your Rabbi and Organization today and request action.
Our organizations should pool their resources today, establish a command center, divide up the work, neighborhood by neighborhood, throughout the state, and put together a financial kitty to fund the e-mails, bulletins, press conferences, and buses to Albany. In honor of Hashem, if we want, we can succeed. If not, there will surely be Gehenom to pay for many years to come!
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
55 Responses
what can each person do – who can we email – where is the script for such an email?
Well written. Scary to read and even more frightening to realize.
As soon as either the Moetzes (our Gedolim) in America or any of our Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel voice their directions I am ready to follow their lead and assist in the action. Hopefully we will hear from them soon.
Until then, extra kavana in the brocha of Vilamalshinim 3 times a day is a must.
Thank you Rabbi Levin for standing up for Kvod Shomayim! B”H there is someone out there who is concerned about HKB”H honor. Keep up the good fight for Morality!
Lew-
give up it’s here to stay. stop making a fool out of yourself.
seeallsides- don’t be lazy, if you really cared you would write your own letter and not copy an e-mail.
Here is a suggested letter to send to malcolm Smith, the NY State Senate Majority Leader:
TO: SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH, PRESIDENT AND MAJORITY LEADER, NEW YORK STATE SENATE:
RE: THE PROPOSED “GayMarriage” LAW
You are soon to vote on the “GayMarriage” Bill, giving homosexuals all the privileges that have been written into our basic laws for men and women who choose to make the sacrifice and commitment to bring children into the world and to raise them as productive and decent citizens of this great country, the United States of America.
Married people have always had special privileges, in recognition of the fragility of the marriage bond and in recognition of the special difficulties and expenses borne by families with children.
We have always recognized that men and women who make the commitment to marry and raise families are an invaluable asset to the stability and prosperity of our great country.
Now, a sexually libertine group within our society covets those special privileges for themselves, claiming that it is their “Civil Right” to enjoy such privileges, just as married people do.
Heretofore, no one who was unmarried dared to claim such a “Civil Right,” recognizing that such a claim was ludicrous on its face. But, as George Orwell has warned, “Political Language…is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give the appearance of solidity to pure wind.”
Legitimate Civil Rights laws compel us to give equal opportunity to those who have been denied such opportunities, based on skin color, ethnicity, or religion. However, this proposed GayRights law would force us to give the special privileges of marriage to people who have voluntarily chosen a deviant lifestyle. There is no justification for such compulsion.
Religious people would be forced to yield their most dearly held religious beliefs–beliefs that have stood the test of time for thousands of years—merely to accommodate the lifestyle choices of some sexually deviant people.
This turns civilization upside down—Is there no longer any room in this society for decent, religious people? Must they be compelled to violate their most deeply-held religious beliefs to accommodate sexual libertines?
Senator, I urge you; I beg you: Protect our families. Do the right thing. Do not impose this tyranny, this pernicious bill, on the decent families of New York State.
Thank you.
Rabbi Levin deserves tremendous respect for his work and all the backing we can give him.
Rav Miller ZT”L was sounding the alarm years ago before it was close to what it is now.
Forget the organizations and their political agendas. We individuals can do plenty on our own. Many grassroots movements ended up turning into political forces.
Az Es Tit Vay Shreit Men!!
Please let us know whom to contact.
Accurate, well thought out, and well written. Now the Torah community must follow up. Don’t think we can isolate ourselves from the impact this toayva will have on this state and this country. We MUST act, and act NOW!!! Ays la’asos la’Sh-m!
While the symbolism is great, the substance as it affects frum Jews is negligible. The social changes Rabbi Levin complains about happened a long time ago. While we should object, this shouldn’t be a priority for us. It just doesn’t affect. Remember, that by definition, there are no Orthodox Jews involved since for a man, to engage in such behavior removes him from Klal Yisrael just as much as if he eats cheeseburgers, goes to work on Shabbos or worships idols. Note that we as a community are silent on the government allowing cheesburgers, work on Shabbos, and observing several state holidays based purely on their status in the leading Avodah Zarah of the land.
What the goyim do in bed in not affected by the law. If they were a bunch of perverts before, they will be afterwards, no matter what the law says. Indeed, DNA analysis suggests that many non-Jews regularly engage in “improper” behavior. The United States long ago rejected state laws regulating sexual behavior between consulting adults, regardless of perversion. The current changes in law affect economic and property rights, and only to a limited extent since contract law and the freedom to write a will have always allowed people (especially us) to adjust their affairs as they preferred. The changes are negligible. Nothing ever required an individual to leave his estate to his parents or sibling rather than to a roommate? There is no halachic reason the a person shouldn’t be allowed to visit someone in the hospital.
While for many Protestants, the law of the state is their law, for Jews (and Muslims and Catholics), the law of the state is largely irrelevant. A marriage between two Jews that was blessed by a clerk in city hall has little or no halachic status. A divorce from a government court
is a nullity according to our law. Arguably, the change in American law to allow Jews to marry Christians without converting did have an impact, but that was centuries ago. This change has no impact.
Indeed, it may help the frum community by forcing the “conservadox” to decide once and for all whether they want to be part of halachic Judaism or “bagel and lox” Judaism. The increase in the moat between us and the goyim is not such a bad thing for Jewish survival.
#8 -“akuperm – You could not be more wrong. The fact that it is assur for a (frum)Jew to engage in this behavior is NOT the point. As Rashi says in explaining “oy l’rash v’oy l’shchayno”- it is impossible for one who goes into a perfumery to not come out smelling of perfume, or for one who goes into a garbage dump not to come out smelling of garbage! Aside from the very excellent and very relevant (legal) issues mentioned by Rabbi Levin, having this toeyva legalized starts (or continues) the process of desensitizing ALL of us to exactly how repugnant and repulsive such a “life style” is (or should be) to Torah Yidden. This de-sensitization process already started over 30 years ago when the psychologists decided this toeyva was no longer to be considered a disease. Legalizing toeyva “marriages” will bring us even further into the garbage dump!!!
dear akuperma: (no. 8):
While I greatly respect your intellect, you’re dead wrong on this one.
The privileges of marriage affect hundreds, if not thousands, of different laws. Married people have special privileges, which, if extended to these libertines, will wreak havoc on our community.
We already have a crisis of child abuse, stemming mainly from these characters. This new new will give them a new, more powerful platform from which to attack our children.
This new legitimacy will force religious people to tolerate the intolerable.
I suggest you go to the website of the Beckett Fund, and read their Harvard Law review article, which gives all the gory legal implications of legitimizing GayMarriage in the law.
Thank you rabbi levine for speeking the truth and not being in denial. Let’s roll up our sleaves and start this avodas hakodesh.
akuperma,
In addition to what deepthinker and AynOdMilvado1 have responded, do R’ Moshe’s and Rav Miller’s take on this matter not make any difference to you?
Rabbi Levin, thank you for speaking up in the name of gedolei Yisroel and for all of us!
Malcolm Smith’s e-mail address is:
[email protected]
State Senator Martin Golden’s e-mail address is:
[email protected]
arevimzeleze#14: akuperma holds himself above the Rabbonim you mention.
We must make it loud & clear this type of change in the law is an immoral travesty.
#14 – If a Rav said Jews should avoid England because they expelled Jews from their territory, no matter how great he was, I would not hold by it since conditions changed.
Both R. Miller and R. Feinstein died some years ago. In their lifetimes, the government in the United States considered homosexuality to be a crime, even in private and even between consenting adults (indeed, even hetereosexual extra-marital conducts was criminal in most states). Once the battle was lost, and the goyim’s rule became that “anything goes”, it become irrelevant if two “room mates” can legally buy a house together, or leave property to each, or visit each other in the hospital (and all these are protected rights under the contract clause).
As a small and very vulnerable minority group, we need to focus on our own survival. We need money for yeshivos, anti-discrimination law to extend economic opportunities, all sorts of little favors (such as waiving parking rules on yuntuf). Our survival is not affected by the goyim choosing to do aveiros, and there is nothing we can effectively do.
We are governed by halacha, and halacha is unaffected by the goyim’s laws. It would be nice if the goyim kept the Mitsvos of Bnei Noach, but we can’t get them to stop killing their own babies, and forget about setting up justice, and they have never been very good about any respect for Giloi Arayos (okay they are good at Ever min ha-hai). It’s not worth the trouble and cost.
#11 deepthinker…
I mostly agree with what you say, and I feel that the issues the writer mentions are extremely relevant. Just one point – you mentioned that most of the abuse that goes on is r”l perpretrated by “these” individuals. Unfortunately, that is not true. The people who do this are very often married with kids. (I am not trying to “get you” or anything, I just want you to realize that you cannot look at anyone who is seemingly “normal” and say, “OK, he’s cool, he would never do anything”. The fact is, the majority of these abuses are done by “regular”, straight people. Why they do it is a conversation for a completely different time.)
But your points are valid, and hopefully everyone else will see things like you and me.
well written well said
Speculation:
Is the reluctance of our Orthodox Jewish organizations to get involved in this matter related to their preference to maintain a “low profile” during the current consideration in the NYS Legislature of the Markey bill, regarding alleged abuse of Yeshiva children?
y2k (20):
I mean the type of activity involved in the abuse–look at the nature of the victims–Toeva activity!
The class of people who are being proposed for these special marriage privileges are the very same class as those who are overwhelmingly involved in abuse. Whether or not they are also married is irrelevant. Their deviancy is the same.
akuperma (no. 19):
“Our survival is not affected by the goyim choosing to do aveiros”
I guess you don’t agree with Rav Hutner and Rav Dessler, ZT”L, who said that we are very much affected by our environment.
Let me know where I should go to join you, when you complete your version of Noah’s Ark.
“Our organizations should pool their resources today, establish a command center, divide up the work, neighborhood by neighborhood, throughout the state, and put together a financial kitty to fund the e-mails, bulletins, press conferences, and buses to Albany.”
Very noble aspirations for our community to strive for. Is this the issue that will finally unite us in common purpose? I doubt it, but can you even imagine how strong we can be if we fight as one army?
Kudos to YWN for publishing R Levins important article. he has been speaking about these issues for 30 years, & now the chickens are coming home to roost. The ikkar is that R Levin does have what to say, & giving him a public forum, is s favor to all of us. In fact I listen to him every Sunday @ midnite on Zev Brenners talkline 620 am radio, (no this is not an advertisement!) or his hotline which is 2124612852 (this is also not an advertisement).
deepthinker-
With all due respect, can you say that as a fact? Yes, the activities are the same as the abuse – in theory. But the majority of these abusers would never be caught dead with an older…let’s not get any more descriptive. There’s more than one factor at play here in terms of what they’re after.
#19: What you are saying is both stupid and false. You wish to make it sound like Rav Miller was niftor 100 years ago on some other planet. You obviously have never cared to listen to any of his tapes. He was niftor all of 8 years ago when nothing was different than today whether regarding homos or abortion. You obviously have a problem with the Tora and would prefer to go with “live and let live”. However, unfortunately for you, all of us believing Jews say (at least) three times a day “al kein n’kaveh l’cho Hashem Elokeinu … l’thaken olom b’malchus sha-d-ai v’chol b’nei bosor yikr’u bishmecha, l’hafnos eilecho kol rish’ei oretz… viy’kablu chulom ess ol malchusecha…” We DO care!
We have to get out of this golus ASAP, it’s one thing to discriminate against them and quite another to elevate their status. I feel bad for any “frum” Jew who supported this legislation. Why is it alright not to have a law protecting Shomer Shabbos workers, but not alright to not having laws protecting every perveted person in the workplace? I heard that a transgender person caused a horrfic trolley accident and was only hired because of his sickness that he did to himself. Obviously, our country believes that such a person has priority for jobs- so they put him in a protected “class”. But religious people who want to keep Shabbos even if they are competent are not only not protected, but there are tons of loopholes to discriminate against them.
Let us not forget that the heathen prophet Bilaam chose immorality as his weapon of choice to weaken the Jewish people, so that they could be destoryed.
“EloKayHem Shel Elu SoNei Zima”-G-D especially hates immorality.
#19, akuperma
I very much identify with your thinking and I believe that you handled the challenge to your position quite adroitly.
I would like to add another factor which I feel that many people are ignoring. Namely, that we live in GOLUS and are merely guests in this country. We have no permanent stake here. Therefore, to the extent that the goyim make laws for themselves that do not affect us at all, we have no obligation (or even right) to call attention to ourselves in protest. Only to the extent that the goyim seek to pass laws that may hinder our religious freedom to observe the Torah do we need to respond. I believe that this was the policy of our gedolim in America (such as Rave Moshe Feinstein, zt”l).
Unlike when Reb Moshe was alive (when our stake in American society still seemed pretty ongoing), there has been much talk and anticipation this year that the final geula is imminent. If so, do we need to be making such a frenzied stand against this particular issue? If we expect to be here in America for a considerable duration still, I would probably agree that the answer is “yes.”
However, I fear that Rabbi Levin’s staunch opposition and call-to-action implies a belief in our continued long term sojourn in America. But maybe this whole issue is a sign of the opposite. Yonah was bidden to rouse the people of Ninveh to do teshuva. We have no similar calling to “save” America. On the other hand, Avraham Avinu was bidden to get his family out of S’dom. Perhaps the Ribbono Shel Olam is sending us (yet another) message, loud and clear, that it’s time for that part of Klal Yisrael still in golus to leave our American “S’dom” and start making massive aliyah, now! We don’t belong here any more!
I agree with akuperma has a point if we fight this why don’t we fight to stop prostitution or gambling or mixed public schools those actions brings down morality and also has an impacts on our way of living. but we cant demand from our government to forbid actions just because its against our or any other religion we only need our government to let people practice religion freely, not to force any kind of religion upon others such government practice is leading us back to the 1800th and we all know the history of that.
May Hashem have mercy on us. This is the beginning of the end. Does anyone remember Hurricane Katrina, the tornados and other natural disasters across the USA? Well, those were reminders and wake up calls.The bohemian lifestyle in New Orleans is not a secret. In China, India and the area around where immorality is far worse than in NY they are constantly being hit with natural disasters. It’s for a reason. Yes we do have to speak up and be heard and accomplish. Our message should be loud and clear DONT LEGALISE WHAT G-D DECLARES IS AN ABOMINATION. FOR G-D’S SAKE. Mi La’Hashem Eilai!!!!!!!!!!! Rabbonim and layleaders now’s THE moment. please rise up and lead the community in a united effort. L’kadesh shem shomayim.
Toeva marriage has been legal in Ontario for several years now, and has not affected frum life. The goyim are continuing to do what they did or did not do before. what difference does it make if they call it “marriage” or “partner” or whatever? Golus is full of toeiva of every sort, (incl. r”l in E”Y). we should save our protest energy for things which REALLY will affect our frum way of life.
To those who feel this issue is not our business… What will you do when the government insists that for our yeshivas to get any state aid, or even just to be recognized as legitimate schools, that they MUST use textbooks that teach that the toayva “lifestyle” is as acceptible as the normal eesh v’eesha lifestyle, – or that you MUST give classes that preach the legitimacy of this “lifestyle”, -or that you MUST have a certain percentage of those openly living a toayva “lifestyle” teaching in your yeshiva?!?! That is the next step. We ignore this now at our own (great) peril, and the peril of our children and grandchildren!!!
regardless of what your views are on this issue, im sure that you all agree that there IS an issue of respecting your fellow jews opinions, hillel and shammai disagreed with eachother but that didnt stop them from respecting eachothers opinions. please, if you want to speak on this issue fine, by all means comment, but if all you are commenting on is how one of the other commentators is deluded, think a few times before commenting.
#35 If you have a privet religious school government can not come in and dictate you what to do its against the constitution which protects freedom of religion.
General Statement: I am so disheartened at the golus mentality that seems to pervade the thinking of so many American Jews, who argue to fight for a compatible life-style so that we can continue to be comfortable here in America. Cannot this whole episode be a test of our true faith in the geula and our sincerity in really wanting — and acting — to bring the golus to an end?
Specific Comments:
To ‘the lady next door’ (#33): you are correctly seeing all of the signs that Hashem is sending to us, exactly as Chazal predicted would occur just before the final geula. But I fear that you are misunderstanding the message. In my humble opinion, the message is not that we are to fight these toeivas when they occur in the lands of our golus, but that it is now time to LEAVE the golus as the geula approaches. Indeed, I am also waiting for the Rabbonim and lay leaders to rise up and lead the community. How? With a call to inundate Nefesh B’Nefesh with aliyah applications.
To AynOdMilvado (#35): I appreciate your apprehension, although I don’t believe that your fears are grounded in the reality of the 1st Amendment’s guarantee of religious freedom. But even if your fears for the future are true, they apply to a future which you still see as being here in America. After the founding of the State of Israel, the Chazon Ish zt’l, asked with frustration: “Where is the aliyah from the frum Jews of America?” It is well known that the Chofetz Chaim zt”l desperately wanted to make aliyah, and this was years before the founding of the state, when it wasn’t at easy as it is today. So the answer to your anxiety is, I respectfully believe, not to take a stand to protect our Torah life-style here in America, but to leave.
And to all of those who say that there are similar toeivas in Eretz Yisrael (l’havdil), please don’t even try to compare the problems that are faced in Eretz HaKadosh (rachmana litzlon) to those we face here in golus. G-d willing, L’Shana Hazeh B’Yerushalayim, and with the coming of Mashiach all of our problems will disappear.
FLATBUSHER: it is definitely not being exaggerated! sodom was destroyed because of these gay marriages! whats the world coming to?
Where has he been? What about all the non married male/female couples who live together for a long time and have a “common law” mmarriage despite not having a marriage of any kind – religious, civil or otherwise? Is not znus an abomination as well?
#39: you are right, but doesn’t it say something thats its being legalized?!?
I’m not sure if this was posted or not… but from a technical halachic perspective, is this to’eiva marriage one of the Sheva Mitzvos Benei No’ach? If so, what’s the mekor? Also, I didn’t understand one part of the editorial… if someone is an oveid aveira befarhesia, why does it matter what he’s doing? All things being equal (either they’re all trying to control their ta’ava but it’s too difficult, or they all couldn’t care less), why would a shul extend membership to someone who eats treif or is mechalel Shabbos, but not to someone who partook in this to’eiva marriage?
We need to fight these sodomites with every ounce of energy we posses.
FYI the “toeivah marriage” bill explicitly exempts religious leaders and institutions from being required to sanctify such unions if they choose not to.
#44, and the thieves, and adulterers and the znus and the prutzim…
#43 (simcha 613) –
The marriage aspect itself is not one of the 7 mitzvos (halachically I don’t think there is such a thing as marraige by them), but the actual ma’aisah is one of them (arayos).
#43 this toaiva’ is assur l’akim ..see mes sanhedrin 58a(?)and rambam paskens so. #41 there is no issur for gentile to have relations with female as long its not ‘eishes ish’
To 41,
Your degrogatory comment is based on your ignorance (am-haaretz). Open up a sefer. Living together is called acc. to the torah marriage by the goyim-the torah doesn’t require a gov. piece of paper!
Even Jews it’s only at the most a Lav, but living with your wife (or anyone) who is a niddah is Korais.
Stamyid,
You sound ridiculous. At least research your positions before posting them for all to see. Living together with commitment is marriage for Nochrim- this is not the forum to elaborate on the specifics.
43: Yes it is from the 7 Mitzvos, and a goy who is over on it – even once – is chayov misa. Beyond that, to officially sanction it is even worse and brought the mabul, as Rabbi Levin wrote in his piece.
#50: I am told that Rav Miller supported Buchanan. To his da’as Tora, the only important issues in a campaign were ones of values and mitzvos b’nei noach such as infanticide (abortion), arayos/morality (anti-‘gay’), dinim (toughness on murder and other crime). These were things he felt he could trust Buchanan most with.
This is my first time writing anything here and I’m saddened that it has to be this.
These are the 2 most important senators to lobby, due to as far as I was able to make out they never said there position
Carl Kruger
contact
District Office
2201 Avenue U
Brooklyn, NY 11229
Tel: (718) 743-8610
Fax: (718) 743-5958
Albany Office
913 Legislative Office Building
Albany, New York 12247
Tel: (518) 455-2460
Fax: (518) 426-6855
Email: [email protected]
John Sampson
District Office:
9114 Flatlands Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11236
Tel: (718) 649-7653
Fax: (718) 649-7661
Albany Office:
409 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12247
Tel: (518) 455-2788
Fax: (518) 426-6806
Email: [email protected]
here are the 19 sponsors/cosponsors of the bill in the senate
Tom Duane (sponsor)
cosponsors
Eric Adams, Neil Breslin, Martin Malave Dilan, Pedro Espada, Craig Johnson, Jeff Klein, Liz Krueger, Velmanette Montgomery, Suzi Oppenheimer, Kevin Parker, Bill Perkins, Diane Savino, Eric Schneiderman, Jose Serrano, Toby Stavisky, Daniel Squadron, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, and Antoine Thompson
Malcom Smith is on record in favor of the bill
If you live in one of theses districts were there is a realistic (though far fetched in some) shot of voting them out I beg (especially Parker who was recently arrested) you to contact your senator and show them there will be consequences if they vote for it
Eric Adams
District Office:
572 Flatbush Avenue
Brooklyn, New York 11225
Phone: (718) 284-4700
Fax: (718) 282-3585
Albany Office:
Legislative Office Building, Room 915
Albany, New York 12247
Phone: (518) 455-2431
Fax: (518) 426-6856
Email: [email protected]
Craig Johnson
District Office:
151 Herricks Road, Suite 202
Garden City Park, NY 11040
P: (516) 746-5923
F: (516) 746-5926
Albany Office:
814 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12247
P: (518) 455-2622
F: (518) 426-6894
Email: [email protected]
Jeffrey Klein
Albany Office:
Capitol Building
Room 427
Albany, New York 12247
District Office:
3713 East Tremont Ave
Bronx, NY 10465
Telephone:
718-822-2049
518-455-3595
Toll Free – (800) 718-2039
Fax:
718-822-2321
Email: [email protected]
Suzi Oppenheimer
Albany Office
806 Legislative Office Building
Albany, New York 12247
518-455-2031
District Office
222 Grace Church Street, 3rd Floor
Port Chester, New York 10573
914-934-5250
Email: [email protected]
Kevin Parker
District Office:
4515 Avenue D
Brooklyn, NY 11203
Tel: (718) 629-6401
Fax: (718) 629-6420
Albany Office:
412 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12247
Tel: (518) 455-2580
Fax: (518) 426-6843
Email: [email protected]
Diane Savino
Albany Office
Senator Diane J. Savino
512 Legislative Office Building
Albany, New York 12247
Phone: (518) 455-2437
Fax: (518) 426-6943
District Office
Senator Diane J. Savino
36 Richmond Terrace, Suite 112
Staten Island, New York 10301
Phone: (718) 727-9406
Fax: (718) 727-9426
Email: [email protected]
Toby Stavisky
Albany Office:
509 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12247
Tel: (518) 455-3461
Fax: (518) 426-6857
District Office:
144-36 Willets Point Blvd.
Flushing, NY 11357
Tel: (718) 445-0004
Fax: (718) 445-8398
Email: [email protected]
Dan Squadron
Albany Office:
946 Legislative Office Building
Albany, New York 12247
518-455-2625
District Offices:
401 Broadway, Suite 1901
New York, New York 10003
Tel: 212-298-5565
Fax: 212-298-5574
Brooklyn District Office:
Borough Hall, Room 240
209 Joralemon Street
Brooklyn, NY 11201
Phone: (718) 802-3818
Email: [email protected]
Andrea Stewart-Cousins
Albany Office:
State Senate of the State of New York
805 LOB
Albany, NY 12247
(Tel.) (518) 455-2585
(Fax) (518) 426-6811
District Office:
86 Main Street
Yonkers, NY 10701
(Tel.) (914) 771-4190
(Fax) (914) 771-6045
Email: [email protected]
Malcolm Smith
District Office
Office of New York State Senator Malcolm A. Smith
205-19 Linden Boulevard
St. Albans, NY 11412
Tel: (718) 528-4290 / Fax: (718) 528-4898
Albany Office
Office of New York State Senator Malcolm A. Smith
909 Legislative Office Building
Albany, NY 12247
Tel: (518) 455-2701 / Fax: (518) 455-2816
Majority Leader’s Office
Office of New York State Senator Malcolm A. Smith
250 Broadway, Suite 1930
New York, NY 10007
Tel: (212) 298-5585 / Fax: (212) 298-5605
Email: [email protected]
if you live on Long Island the LI Republican Senators are the ones the pro Toavah people are counting on
Charles Fuschillo
District Office:
5550 Merrick Road
Suite 205
Massapequa, New York 11758-6238
516-882-0630
Fax: 516-882-0636
Albany Office:
Room 615 LOB
Albany, New York 12247
518-455-3341
Email: [email protected]
here are the ones who are considered in decided
James Alesi, R-Upstate (East Rochester)
Kenneth LaValle, R-Long Island (Port Jefferson)
John J. Flanagan, R-Long Island (East Northport)
Brian X. Foley, D-Long Island (Blue Point)
Owen H. Johnson, R-Long Island (West Babylon)
Charles Fuschillo, R-Long Island (Merrick)
Hiram Monserrate, D-NYC (Jackson Heights)
Joseph Addabbo, Jr., D-NYC (Ozone Park)
John Sampson, D-NYC (Brooklyn)
Carl Kruger, D-NYC (Brooklyn)
Ruth Hassell-Thompson, D-Westchester (Williamsbridge)
Vincent Leibell, R-Westchester (Patterson)
Kemp Hannon, R-Long Island (Garden City)
Andrew Lanza, R-NYC (Staten Island)
Betty Little, R-Upstate (Queensbury) (conflicting reports suggest she’s against it but she may go the other way)
David Valesky, D-Upstate (Oneida) (officially undecided; constituent e-mail hints opposes Toavah Marrige)
Catharine Young, R-Upstate (Olean)
Yasher koach for the tzaddik Harav Yehuda Levin shlitta for all he does for klal yisroel and for Rav Avigdor Miller for having enabled Rav Levin in his Torah missions.
Dear charliehall (no. 50):
I’m shocked that an card-carrying Democrat Liberal intellectual, such as you, would resort to ad-hominym character assassination attack on Rabbi Levin.
Surely, you know that he was simply following the instructions of his now-sainted Rebbe, Rav Avigdor Miller, ZT”L.
Shame on you!
chrlie56: No, hes accusing you of being a mechitzif and a menuval for attacking Rav Miller. If Rav Miller deemed support of Buchanan appropriate, a little nobody as yourself is no one to dispute it.
Did anyone consider for a moment the possibilty that R’ Dovid Feinstein shlita, whose close with Mr. Silver in their Lower East Side neighborhood, privately gave Shelly Silver a heter to vote for this bill since he might lose his position as NYS Assembly Speaker if he voted otherwise and will then be unable to help klal Yisroel in other important areas?
Shelly doesn’t take orders from anyone, least of all Rav Dovid. Don’t try besmirching Rav Dovid with Shelly’s chillul hashem’s.
To Nameless:
I’m not trying to besmirch Rav Dovid Feintein chas v’sholom, but it does happen to be well known to people on the Lower East Side that Shelly Silver quite often consults with Rav Dovid on many important matters.
At the very least, why is it that we didn’t hear any criticism of Shelly from Rav Dovid for now twice voting in favor of Gay marriage. In fact, this time around Shelly even co-sponcered the Gay marriage bill in the NYS Assembly.