12 Responses

1. Where do they expect the money to come from? We are going broke trying to send our own kids to Yeshiva. The unfortunate reality is that in these tough times after we finish paying our own bills and tuition (those who pay some or all) there is no money left. I believe it is time to go back to the drawing board and figure out how we are going to redevelop the entire Yeshiva system, across the board. The system currently in place is broken BEYOND REPAIR, both here and in EY, and is currently non sustainable. We need a new way of thinking and it needs to be, once again, built from the ground up and done NOW.

2. 1. I suspect that many leaders of the frum community don’t fully comprehend that the economic crisis affecting our institutions is part of a world wide “depression” over which we have no control. Private charitable institutions and schools are going bust everywhere. It isn’t just “us.”

   2. Something like “transportation” is a luxury. In the “old days” children walked to schools, and schools were in walking distance. Since by definition ALL Orthodox Jews live in walking distance of a shul, the obviously answer may be to cut school costs by switching to neighborhood shuls. Certainly it is far better to fire the bus drivers than to get rid of teachers. We should look back at how our ancestors in the past managed to do more, with less.

3. What you are failing to understand is that these are children from non-frum neighborhoods being bussed in to frum chinuch atzma’i schools. If they have no bus, they have no frum schools, and we lose them. It is a matter of hatzalas nefashos to donate if you can.

4. #3 ——————————————————————————–

   What you are failing to understand is that these are children from non-frum neighborhoods being bussed in to frum chinuch atzma’i schools. If they have no bus, they have no frum schools, and we lose them. It is a matter of hatzalas nefashos to donate if you can.
   It is a matter of hatzalas nefashos to donate if you can. you would think that it is more important to help the frum kids then the non frum kids.non frum kids are a tinik shenishba. a frum child who looses his yeshiva schooling because of money that is a sakonos nefashos.

5. Most USA frum Jews equate state schools with a goyish public school in the USA. Many of the Israeli state schools are dati leumi and chardal and boys and girls are separate. They teach Torah and mitzvos and can be likened to an out of town (out of NY) yeshiva day school. They are not charedi (pro State of Israel, wear knitted kippot, not black velvet, serve in the IDF, teachers are Hesder graduates, etc…). Also they must follow the Misrad Hachinuch core curriculum which includes math, sports, science and English-subjects many charedi yeshivot spend very little time on-if at all.
   If what #3 says is true, then when a frum family moves to a non frum place, they should understand that they have to get their child bussing on their own cheshbon. Why should Israeli tax payers foot that bill?
   If you say that the family is not religious and they are agreeing to send their child to a religious school over sending them to a local secular school, then I understand the crisis. Yet there is the Shuvu network for Russians and Chabad for secular Israelis and Shas for secular Sefardim-all with separate network funding.
   I thought that Chinuch Atzmai network schools were for frum charedi families (Bais Yaakov, for example) that do not accept anyone unless their family is chardei. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I know hundreds of charedi families and they live near yeshivot and Bais Yaakovs which are Chinuch Atzmai. Where is the hatzolas nefoshos?

6. #3 – so what you are saying is that there is a substantial body of students going to Chinuch Atzmai who would prefer the secular hiloni schools, over the FREE religious zionist schools. That is very hard to believe (at least for Ashkenazim, but Shas has its own system anyways). It would be as if someone was willing to consider a hasidische heder or a public school, but nothing in the middle????? While I would never think that the 5th of Iyar is a yuntuf, or serving in the IDF is a mitzvah, it’s a stretch to say that the religious zionists are goyim (fools maybe, but Jewish ones).

   It is well known the Chinuch Atzmai is clearly inferior in secular subjects, and that anyone choosing it has made a conscious decision in order to get more Torah studies at the cost of forfeiting future parnassah. And you are saying that their only motivation is a free bus ride?

7. No. 6 I believe one of the solutions, as you are suggesting are “Hebrew Langauge” charter schools for half a day (say 8-3) and then limudei kodesh with rebbeim after that. It will cut the cost of tuition down from, around $12,000 per child to $3,000 per child. It will also make a Jewish education accessable to those who are not yet frum and don’t send their kids to Yeshiva due to the out of controll cost.

8. wow, nfgo2, this is a brilliant idea.

   it boggles the mind that no one has discussed it prior.

   It really should be pursued.

9. #5: I don’t think you’re presenting a completely accurate picture. There are ‘mamlachti’ schools which are completely nonreligious (and many anti-religious). There are ‘mamlachti dati’ schools which have a level of religion taught (not at the level you describe). There are ‘mamlachti dati torani’ schools which are more like the ones you describe. So, someone without access to the dati torani or dati schools would really be stuck in, at best, a nonreligious environment, and at worst, an anti-religious environment.

10. I am unaware that there are kiruv chinuch atzmai schools, and the many chinuch atzmai institutions that I do know of only accept charedi students from charedi families that live near their schools. On any given morning Sunday through Friday in any charedi Israeli town, hundreds of children are walking to school. I understand busing for special needs children, and if that is being taken away-that can be fought. I seek to understand the crux of the issue so if someone in listland has an answer, please forward it to the public.

11. The public schools in the US where they are funded by tax money are barely making it. In my city they are constantly making cuts in services and staff and putting new tax levies on the ballot every two years with threats of more cuts if it doesn’t pass. How can anyone expect schools that are funded mainly through the parent’s money to survive. I’m talking about both in Israel and the US.

12. To #10: Yes you are correct that there are all three types of schools. However in most towns, with the exception of Beitar, there are Torani state run schools. No one would expect a frum child to attend a secular school these days, but in the places where frum families live there are no shortage of chadorim or Beis Yaakovs. (Notable exception is Telzstone, which has no girls high school, and whose daughters do travel. Again in which towns can’t the children get to cheder or Bais Yaakov? Do you have facts and figures? Who are all these hundreds of children walking to school every morning in Mattesdorf, Har Nof, Bnei Brak, Beit Shemesh, Bayit Vegan, etc…. Oh, they must be the Torani kids on their way to school, then…