To the parents sending their daughters to seminary in Eretz Yisroel, I ask: Do you know what you’re paying for?
When my oldest granddaughter was accepted into the seminary of her choice, I was overjoyed. I vividly remember the pride I felt years ago when my son left for yeshiva in Eretz Yisroel, and just a few months later, I saw a transformed young man—refined, responsible, and uplifted by the kedusha of Eretz Hakodesh. Naturally, I expected to experience that same pride when I saw my granddaughter after her time in seminary.
Despite the astronomical cost of flights and hotels, I did not hesitate to make the trip for Yeshiva Week. This was an opportunity to witness firsthand the growth and maturity I believed seminary instilled in our bnos Yisroel. My granddaughter was thrilled when I told her I was coming, but instead of excitedly planning our visits to Kever Rochel or davening at the Kosel, she was more concerned about which restaurants we’d be dining at and how many friends she could bring along. I brushed it off—surely, she was just eager to introduce me to her friends.
But then, reality hit.
After an exhausting flight, I couldn’t wait for that first iconic walk through the Old City to the Kosel. I called my granddaughter and asked her to meet me so we could experience it together. She agreed and assured me she’d be there shortly. Thirty minutes away, she said. An hour later, she strolled into the hotel, casually apologizing. The reason for her delay? “Sorry, Bubby, I was STARVING and stopped to grab something to eat.”
I was stunned. Had she not understood the significance of this moment? Had I misjudged what seminary was meant to do for our girls?
Our walk to the Kosel was not the heartfelt, meaningful experience I had envisioned. Instead of deep conversations about her growth, her learning, or her connection to Eretz Yisroel, my granddaughter spent most of the time on her phone—making plans, laughing about social events, and talking about where she wanted to eat the next night. I barely got a word in.
I soon realized she was not an exception. The following evening, I took her and her friends out to the restaurant she had insisted was “the only place to go.” These were supposed to be the friends who would shape her future, the girls she would build lifelong bonds with. Instead, they were rowdy, self-absorbed, and barely acknowledged my presence—aside from their lengthy orders of appetizers, desserts, and the most expensive items on the menu.
And then came Shabbos.
I insisted on a family-only Shabbos meal, hoping for at least one sacred moment together. But as soon as the seudah ended, my granddaughter disappeared—to the hotel lobby, where I found a scene that left me speechless. Young women and yeshiva bochurim, lounging on couches, mingling freely, acting as if there were no barriers, no standards, no sense of kedusha.
Is this what parents are paying upwards of $30,000 for? Are we sending our daughters across the world to “find themselves,” only for them to lose their entire sense of responsibility? Do parents know what is happening—and if they do, why are they allowing it?
Seminary is supposed to be a year of growth, of reflection, of absorbing Torah values and connecting to our mesorah. Instead, it has become a glorified vacation, where girls roam freely, restaurant-hop, and turn hotels into social lounges. Where is the structure? Where is the oversight? Where is the accountability?
We tell ourselves that seminary is a necessity, that our daughters need this experience. But I ask you—what, exactly, is the experience they are getting? And what kind of bnos Yisroel are we truly raising if this is the norm?
It’s time for parents to open their eyes and demand better. Our daughters deserve it. Klal Yisroel depends on it.
Sincerely,
A Deeply Concerned Bubby
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46 Responses
This doesn’t speak to the quality or value of the seminary experience as much as it speaks to upbringing of your granddaughter.
Meeting yeshiva boys in a hotel lobby sounds ideal compared to our dysfunctional shidduch system.
You have every right to be disappointed but you can’t blame the idea of seminary for your granddaughters actions.
That being said seminary is clearly not a necessity and sometimes a negative.
Something has to change.
Seminary is absolutely not necessary for most girls. If 13 years of Bais Yaakov education is not enough for them to come out well rounded and ready for life by 12th grade, then our chinuch system is sorely lacking (which i dont think it is).
Also makes you wonder what magic the Chassidish girls schools have, that can produce a ready product after 12th grade, yet if a litvish girl doesnt go to seminary its a calamity.
I think the world is opening its eyes, and its hurting…
Seminary is simply overblown.
Welcome to reality…
And its not about the seminary the girls these days do the same think at home. The chinuch starts at home.
Sorry Dear. Girls do not need seminary! Let alone in Eretz Yisroel. There are hundreds & thousands of (chasidishe) Women that are building torah homes without going to seminary. “Growth, reflection, absorbing Torah values and connecting to our mesorah” can be done in Brooklyn, Monsey, NJ or anywhere & can be done in the 12 years of the school system! You ppl create your own problems. Im not even talking about the waste of money!!!!
With all due respect and sympathy for this concerning story, I completely object to the indiscriminate vilification of the seminary experience.
Maybe this is a problem with a certain group of people (those who give their daughters unlimited spending money perhaps?), or a certain type of seminary. But it is NOT universal.
I was in seminary within the past decade, and my experience was nothing like what you describe. I (and my friends) blended in completely with the local Bais Yaakov girls – perhaps that’s why people didn’t notice us, and only noticed the “obvious” seminary girls walking around being loud and obnoxious. (People asked me for directions in Hebrew.) I think my parents got their money’s worth (I also, for the record, completed a year’s worth of college credits through my seminary year) and I personally am glad I had the opportunity.
Perhaps for every girl you see acting in that shocking way, there are another dozen behaving inconspicuously and properly?
What a selfish way to blame a seminary for your poorly raised granddaughter.
There’s a lot to say here. Obviously that’s not the experience all Seminary girls are having, but I agree it’s for sure common and definitely spiraling out of control. But your parents and grandparents have to ask yourself what exactly do you expect when you drop a teenager off across the world with a open credit card and a smartphone. That she’s going to behave herself? That the Seminary who is more than happy to take your extremely large amount of money is going to monitor her for you? They’re probably happier the less she’s there. There’s a reason other communities such as chassidic and sefardic are not into year long luxury trip the young girls are taking because of the severe damage it can cause, and the very little chance of high spiritual benefit. Of course there are much stricter seminaries where I’m sure you’re not getting this but I guarantee most of the girls don’t want to go to them. It’s time to stop being naive and risk being unpopular with your daughters and say enough with this
A year at a private (elite) university in the United States with room and board, plus tuition would cost you $80K. There should be a frum equivalent in the major centers of Yiddishkeit in the US that have costs equivalent to a public university (typically under $20k, assuming the student lives at home).
Seminary in Eretz Yisroel will take a GENUINELY solid, growth-oriented, healthy Bais Yaakov girl and catapult her to beautiful levels of chashivus haTorah, yiras shomayim, and a life lived by idealistic Hashkafos.
Seminary in Eretz Yisroel will NOT take a previously shallow, materialistic Bais Yaakov girl and completely transform her to erase the values she was brought up with. It is not an rehab for those addicted to gashmiyus.
I was in seminary last year.. trust me, I know the score.
We sent our daughter to Israel not because we wanted to, but we felt that it would be good for her. Her case specifically. She came back a transformed amazing girl ready to tackle the world. I’m sorry that you had a different experience.
While I never supported the idea of seminary, my wife and I did send our daughters, and really it depends on the seminary and in this case her granddaughter and friends. Her description of events does not remotely come close to what we experienced. I am sure there are more than few seminaries that just a big party but when we were looking into schools, we wanted a serious place for learning and all that goes with it. Our daughters came back “normal,” and while I did not see the need for it, I am glad they had a good experience in eretz Yisroel
חנוך לנער על פי דרכו
One must check into each seminary.
My oldest did not need seminary & B”H is building a beautifull Yiddish home. Both of them growing together. My son inlaw became a Rosh Hakollel. My second daughter gained a lot from Seminary, building a beautiful home. Her husband is a מלמד דרדקי. He instils יראת שמיים to his precious young students. The 3rd did not get a chance… since she got married at 18… & is building a beautiful home. I was zoche to be the Shadchan of my 2 younger daughters. With Hashems help we met the right boys & did not look to see what others “the world: would say. Since they are not the ones that brought up our children. The best part is that are family is split down the middle. 3 Litvish & 3 Chasidish. Coming from a litvish family & 2 brothers that turned Chasidesh. My parents had the same philosophy. The bottom line, the right chinuch is to see what each child needs, and not do what the “World” does. Hashem gave to parents precious diamonds for each parent to take care of. No child is the same & every one has their challenges & needs. As the Rambam says אדם נמשך אחר סביבותיו. Parents should make their home to be the real סביבה that their children & grandchildren should want to be there. May we all be Zoche to have true אהבת חינם for all of כלל ישראל children.
Seminary is necessary for the ppl who run it to charge 30k to s—-ers
with all due respect since you state yourself as bubby you should be ashamed of yourself for portraying the lack of chinuch of your grandchild on an amazing working system im fresh out of eretz yisroel none of my friends or my newly weded wife were doing these things and none of us have a high “caliber” resume i can confidentley pick of 3 sems your granddaughter is in that have such behavior the same goes for a minority of the many many many yeshivas that bh offer amazing services and the same goes for the majority of seminaries its an amazing oportunity that does wonders for children that come from healthy solid backrounds next time you go maybe stroll around places other than your waldorf/mamila/plaza lobby like what exactly would you expect the scene to be a bunch brisk guys taking apart a tosafos there!!!wakr up its you thats the problem not the system
A woman does not need seminary to do her tafkid in this world…The only people who need seminary are the ones making this a very lucrative business… like someone else commented.. And, Kokosh.cake explains further….
“Seminary in Eretz Yisroel will take a GENUINELY solid, growth-oriented, healthy Bais Yaakov girl and catapult her to beautiful levels of chashivus haTorah, yiras shomayim, and a life lived by idealistic Hashkafos.
Seminary in Eretz Yisroel will NOT take a previously shallow, materialistic Bais Yaakov girl and completely transform her to erase the values she was brought up with. It is not an rehab for those addicted to gashmiyus.”
Please stop looking to Eretz Yisroel to GIVE you something you lack. You don’t come to EY to GET something. And, You can’t bring it back in a box to America. Can’t!!! Those of us who live here in Eretz Hakodesh GIVE of ourselves a lot of times bmesirus nefesh, and GET the priviledge to GIVE it. You can’t understand what I am talking about unless you sacrifice your comforts and conveniences and REALLY live bitachon in Hashem. You can’t just come and “get” kedusha through the drive thru window. Sorry, it does not work like that in life. So, your money spent on seminary is completely wasted if you are coming back to shmutz laretz to continue your life of gashmius.
The good news is that America DOES have updated options. In Lakewood, there is a new seminary that opened this year that sounds like they actually provide girls with non-stop learning experience, and real-life lessons in an outstanding “geshamke” environment. I know a few people who have sent their daughters and were beyond thrilled with the environment and the growth their daughters seem to be gaining. I think it’s called Hadras Bais Yaakov. Sounds like it’s very real, and have amazing staff, connect with the students, etc..
Everyone has to do what’s best for their daughter! No one size fits all!
With all due respect. I live here and have a younger sister and a cousin in seminary this year. Your granddaughters “seminary of her choice” is apparently not the from the best seminaries. All I hear about is Medrish reports due, visits to Rashbi and trips to the Kosel and the quickest way to get there and be back in time in time for curfew. So hold off before you bash the whole Seminary thing. This is the farthest thing from a Seminary problem and more a your granddaughter and her friends thing… Not sure why you expected your her friends to be different usually people hang out with people like them. Also not sure why she has such unlimited money to being eating out in all theses places. Maybe do some introspection instead of running and blaming all “Seminaries” The Seminary experience is the farthest thing from what you are describing. Seminary is a very needed learning experience, how to deal with people how to figure things out on your own, how to handle when your shabbos plans fall through, how to deal when you can’t get a shabbos meal, doing chesed, becoming an individual etc… Most girls are not busy with the things you describe.
The young lady acted the way she did because she sees through the hypocrisy. American Jews cannot simply send their kids to Israel, as if it was some kind of spiritual spa or summer camp, only to return to their homes in the Five Towns, Baltimore or Miami. The same thing goes for the parents and grandparents that fly in for a week or so for a booster shot of emuna or ruach. It doesn’t work that way.
“Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai said: Hashem gave three good gifts to Israel, and all of them were given only by means of yisurin (torment or toil). These are they: Torah, Eretz Yisrael, and Olam Haba”, Brachot 5a
I would say, they should all come on Aliyah, but who am I kidding?
Bubby, you’re a drama queen! Go back to knitting socks!
What about the pushing onto packed mixed buses and loudly laughing about it? Same in these tiny busy stores 😫. Disgusting
Bubby, you are woefully naive. You are not revealing information that has heretofore not been disclosed. Take your head out of the sand.
Chaim Baruch…..”spiritual spa”” ha ha…ye aliyah…who are you kidding?? (Eye roll) i dont know…there is an unhealthy ruach in America …ppl think of EY as the frum version of Disney world..what are you learning if you can’t understand what it means to be here…??. Have u ever read the chumash??
with all due respect,
YOU SOUND MORE CONCERNED ABOUT MONEY THAN ANYTHING ELSE AND SEEMINGLY THAT IS WHAT HAS LEAD YOUR GRANDAUGHTER TO ONLY VALUE GASHMIYASH AS WELL…..
Children will live the values their parents LIVE, NOT the ones they preach but don’t actually adhere to themselves…
Its mind blowing how people with deep-seeded issues are so fast to bash an entire system instead of taking a real look at themselves and considering what THEY may be doing wrong….
What seminary? I wouldl ove to send my daughter there! It is important that a seminary assist in a young women’s growth, how she wants to grow, and not what you perceive should be her growth.
This will be a year, and sounds like it, a year where she will gain self confidence, friends and the ability to enjoy her life before heading off to the next chapter of her life. You should be proud, and not selfish to expect her growth to be how you want it to be!
May be it would have been better for you to stay home than to criticize your granddaughter who let you in her inner circle, and who felt comfortable around you to share. I am sure if you spoke with her of having alone time, she would have been more than happy to oblige. But with your perceived negativity and judgement, I don’t blame her trying to minimize her interactions with you.
I think the problem is the way we bring up our children. Why is it standard practice these days that a girl in seminary gets (sometimes) multiple visits throughout the year? This applies to our bocherim as well. Why can’t they go for the full year? And why is it standard practice that we need to bring them home for Pesach?
Seminary is a waste of money. If you couldn’t give a good chinuch and instill a love of Yiddishkeit in a bas Yisroel until the age of 18, you can’t change it with a year of Sseminary in Israel.
Unfortunately, women in many US communities, teachers, mothers, rebbetzins, are so into technology, they have lost all understanding and all feeling of what what it means to be a Yiddishe Mame, what it means to have yiras shomayim. They wear ridiculously long wigs, they have lost their feelings for tznius, and are totally entrenched in the goyishe culture without even realizing it. These women CANNOT give over authentic Yiddishkeit and yiras shomayim to our children. On top of that, kids are bought up with mindless “Yiddish magazines” and “frum movies” that not only does not contribute to their growth in Yiddishkeit, all this mindless, non-toichendige media stunts their growth in spiritualism. And then the older girls get smartphones and get totally immersed in social media like their mothers are….
And you think a year of Sseminary will reverse a lifetime of farshtupte materialistic lifestyle and of non-chinuch?!
I believe that you answered your own question.
Your shallow, selfish, and materialistic granddaughter whose Yiddishkeit is purely cultural chose a seminary that would allow her the kind of seminary experience SHE was looking for — not what YOU were looking for.
And that’s what she got.
Girls (and boys) who want a different experience will choose differently, no different than the way their contemporaries choose their college experiences: those who look for party schools go to party schools and those who look to study hard go to places where they will have to study hard.
Your granddaughter wanted a party experience — and that’s what she got!
I was in Sem a few years ago and was part of this so i can really understand…. when my parents came all it was about was which friends are coming which night in which restaurant. besides for the expense it put a huge pressure on everyone else
Sounds like classic modox sem
* In my previous comment I meant to write about the mindless “frum magazines” for kids, not “Yiddishe magazines”, magazines written for kids in Yiddish that are mostly full of toichen. The “frum magazines” for kids have ridiculous stories with full animation filling kids brains with senseless garbage.
@YSL1234:
Sounds like classic modox sem?
Please elaborate.
You have direct knowledge that what’s described here is “classic” (typical) in modox sems? Or is it stam motzi shem ra and you’re saying something really terrible about your fellow (modox) Jews?
Also: Just modox, not also possible within the non-MO world?
I am flummoxed.
Why is that those who disagree with “Bubby” find it necessary to buttress their arguments with nasty insults?
A valid point does not require shouting, mocking or putdowns.
It is such a wrong thing to do.
I see so many times where people use shockingly low insults in their comments.
Whether it be this discussion of seminary, or other disassociated discussions.
Whether this story itself is true or not, situations like this are becoming less and less an outlier. Seminary/yeshiva in Israel has many pros, but it’s not FOR EVERYONE!
The fact that the parents or bubby was surprised speaks louder, indicating that people don’t really know their kids all that well. Everyone wants to think that their kid will be a huge tzadik/tzadeikes, but that’s not for everyone, nor does that have to be the standard, just be more genuine about why you’re doing things…something we are sorely lacking.
And for the shallow people out there quickly labeling this as “probably a modox sem” do yourself a favor and look in the mirror. Enough of blaming, assuming, and dividing. Modox sems/yeshivas actually foster a lot of genuine, growth oriented young adults, who aren’t only there because society said so.
The bigger issue is that the grandmother clearly doesn’t have the right perception of her granddaughter. Also, let’s stop being divisive and quickly labeling things as “oh, must be Modox Sem.”
Lower your expectations.
This article is so. Not. True. I gained a tremendousssss amount in sem. Of weight.
#kitzefet #coffeebean tuesdays #rimon
So, for the last 18 years, your granddaughter was being raised as a spoiled, materialistic, self-centered brat, and all of a sudden, you wake up and realize it and then decide to blame the seminary? Was she a brat before she stepped on the plane, or did it only happen when she entered the seminary door?
One of the most G*D-fearing and machmir men I ever knew in my entire life REFUSED to send his daughters to seminary. That man knew all of Shas and all of Shulchan Aruch.
He said seminary is a waste of time and money.
Instead of going to seminary, his daughters got married and had children.
Now he has many grandchildren in Lakewood, from his daughters, B”H.
Send to seminary here. Far less expensive, more oversight, and just as effective.
Your granddaughter has learned to socialize with bachurim on her own. That will keep her out of the shidduch crisis and enable her to get married to who she wants to marry as opposed to who her parents will want her to marry. She won’t be one of those waiting endlessly for the phone to ring to get a date. No age gap issues either with this one.
Re the commenters who gave the impression that Chasidim don’t have seminaries for their daughters:
That happens to be incorrect. Multiple Hasidic sects have seminaries these days, e.g. Bobov, Lubavitch, I think also Ger, Minkatch, and Hasidic girls go to other institutions as well.
I don’t believe this is at all the general rule for seminary. But it’s definitely something that happens to some girls. And yes, to my understanding, it can even happen to girls who may have otherwise been decent girls until then. We all need to take our heads out of the sand. Think about it – an 18 YO girl 5000 miles away with WAY less oversight than when sleeping at home every night. Way more freedom. In the middle of a major bustling city. With thousands of bochurim also 5000 miles away from family, mostly in diros scattered around the city. Many times, neighboring these seminaries. You really don’t think some may be affected negatively?!
It is very difficult to understand why no Gedolim have put a stop to the entire seminary madness. It is a HUGE financial drain on families, right before a tremendously financially taxing time of making weddings, providing “support”. It’s very difficult seeing this huge value in what’s become a 10 month period of camp “growing”. It’s mostly hype. Of course it’s great for some girls – a very very small minority. Most are there cuz like “why not” it’s so fun and my Totty has a credit card so yeah. Their claims of wanting to grow are mostly baloney.
Yet nothing is done to stop it. I think it’s because the Gedolim know noone will listen anyway. Is there any one Gadol that a significant portion of the frum world would actually listen to if he said to stop seminary? Besides, how can anyone dare affect all the people living off the seminary scam in EY?! So instead we’ll just continue to allow the heart attacks to continue in the US. Hey, listen it’s easier earning a parnassah in the US right?
I’m not getting involved in this discussion, if rather touch on a similar point.
A couple of weeks back I visited ey, and was walking along the streets of yerusholayim, in the areas where the streets have been taken over by the chutzniks, i.e geulah, shamgar etc, and that’s were I was disgusted, as a friend said to me, it’s better for a frum person to walk down yaffoh, then these areas. Those who have been there will know what I mean, in yaffoh, it might not be a frum area, and there might be non tzniusdike people, but you could lower your eyes, and control yourself to a certain level, not like the rest of the areas, which is packed with FRUM men, woman, brushing past you, without any problem, making loads of noise, screaming on the top of their lungs, I’m sure you know exactly what I mean, and speak to the poor Israeli people who have given their comfortable life away to immerse their lives in the holy land, I’m sure they know exactly what I’m taking about.
I think it’s another important point to ponder.