In a highly relevant Q&A session, Rav Aharon Lopiansky shlit”a delivered a pertinent message on the role of Daas Torah in medical decision-making. The discussion, moderated by Rabbi Sruly Fried of Chai Lifeline, centered around a question posed: Does Daas Torah have a place in medical advice and referrals, and if so, what is its role?
Rav Lopiansky’s response was clear and unequivocal: One must differentiate between moral dilemmas and technical expertise. “If someone is building a structure and is unsure if the supports are strong enough, would anyone even have a hava amina to ask Daas Torah? Of course not. You ask an engineer,” he explained. The same applies to vaccines—why should a Rav be expected to be a medical expert?
Daas Torah, Rav Lopiansky elaborated, comes into play when a situation involves a moral conundrum, not a factual determination. If a child needs extensive medical care but tending to them would result in neglecting other children—is one mechuyav to prioritize one over the other? That is a moral question. If a critically ill patient has the option of undergoing a painful surgery with an uncertain outcome—should he be forced to go through with it? That is a moral dilemma for Daas Torah.
Likewise, he noted, the same applies to matters of shalom bayis or tzedaka allocation—areas where Torah values guide the decision-making process. But vaccines? “Why should a Rav know about vaccines? It’s a technical issue,” he said.
To illustrate the importance of distinguishing between ikkar and tafel, Rav Lopiansky recounted a telling story from Rav Chaim Mendel Brotsky shlit”a. A cheder in Yerushalayim proudly advertised that it consulted the Steipler Gaon zt”l on every single decision. Rav Brotsky rejected this approach outright. If they were asking Daas Torah about every mundane detail, from what kind of milk to buy to minor administrative matters, then they lacked basic seichel.
This misplaced reliance on Rabbanim for matters beyond their expertise extends to medical matters as well. “If you walk into a bais medrash that looks like it will collapse, and the gabbai tells you not to worry because the Rebbe said it will stand until Moshiach comes, you’d laugh at him,” Rav Lopiansky remarked. “Of course, you ask an engineer.” The sha’alah for Daas Torah only arises if the engineer identifies a slight crack with a minuscule risk—then you ask a Rav if there’s a chiyuv to repair it.
Rabbi Fried pressed further: What about a case where a spouse refuses to vaccinate because they were raised in an anti-vaxx household? Would this be a Daas Torah issue?
Again, Rav Lopiansky emphasized the need to distinguish between medical and moral concerns. “If the question is about vaccines, ask a medical expert. If it’s a shalom bayis question, ask a Rav.” He likened it to shechita—a Rav proficient in halacha may still not be a mumcheh in sirchos (lung adhesions). “I don’t think anyone ever went to Rav Shach zt”l to ask about a sircha on a lung,” he noted.
“The facts have to come from someone who knows the facts,” Rav Lopiansky concluded. When there is a moral question—one that requires a Torah’dike perspective—then Daas Torah has its place. “But a Rav who doesn’t even go online, doesn’t read medical journals—how would he know about vaccines?”
(YWN World Headquarters – NYC)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
14 Responses
I would like to start off that I am provaxx. I vaccinated my children with all vaccines reccomended by the doctor. I and all my adult family members took the COVID vaccine. Having said that, I think that when people ask Daas Torah whether to vax or not, it is similar in their mind to the situation mentioned -do surgery or not. They look at it as there are vaccines against diseases that are not prevalent today, and there are risks to the vaccines. Which outways which? That is a moral dillemma and they go to teir Daas Torah for that answer. Please do not answer me as to all the reasons why vaccines are safe and needed, I VAX. YOU DON’T NEED TO CONVINCE ME!! I AM A BELIEVER!!! Just understand that to them it is a moral dilemma and not a medical one.
Maybe, one day, we will be encouraged to think for ourselves
As usual, Rabbi Lopiansky strikes the hammer on the nail.
What if he claims to know about vaccines.
If he is a reputable talmid chochom and he doesn’t say this matter is beyond my pay grade than you can rely on what he tells you. He is obviously informed enough to provide you a response. if he was not he wouldn’t provide you a response
So this whole discussion is moot. Because if an individual is already leaning to ask his Rav than if his rav advises him how to proceed than he can rely that the rav would not inform on a matter that he is uninformed on.
So whom is rabbi lopianskis speech aimed at, what person?
People think that doctors evaluate drugs. They do not. Doctors are actually the workers at the bottom of the pyramid. At the very top are officials and big drug manufacturers. The middle is the scientists that are paid to develop and test the drugs. The doctor YOU trust only gets the drugs and FACTS about the drugs from above his pay grade. He is OBLIGATED to follow whatever the medical dogma of the day is. If he does not he can lose his license. He is not paid to think and analyze he is paid to follow and trust the medical training he was given. So the question is, are the people are the top of the pyramid trustworthy? Do they care about you? Is this about science or about profit? I think we all saw so clearly with the COVID shot that this is about money not science. All drugs follow that pattern you just haven’t seen it yet. When you ask medical advice from any authority you are basically trusting that the science hasn’t been corrupted. Any of us who study the vax know that the whole industry is a big scam based around money.
For those who see Daas Torah in everything due to their understanding of “hafoch ba v’hafoch ba, d’kula ba”, this article is unacceptable. For those who say that Daas Torah is for Torah and Hashkafa, but you need experts in milei d’alma, the question is, in what fields should the experts be deferred to – why only medicine and engineering, but not in military matters? After all, Rabbanim don’t have expertise in what is and is not necessary to protect the lives of the general public – while the generals do. It’s true that it’s not an exact science, but neither are other areas where experts are consulted – so the question is where to draw the line.
an Israeli Yid
Rav Lopiansky said: Daas Torah weighs in when you have a moral dilemma.
With all due respect, DT weighs in on any and every dillema, not only so called moral dillemas.
The problem is when the dillema exists because we are too lazy to go and really find out the facts, and we go to an authority figure as a short cut.
Be it a doctor (who fyi spends no more than a few hours studying vaccines during their 7 years of training), a Rav, a government official, or anyone else who’s authority is based on an assumption and heuristics.
If you really want to get to the bottom of an issue, you will need to put figureheads on the mantelpiece and actually take the fact finding mission seriously.
Once you do that, most of the dilemmas will disappear.
Since this example was brought up, here’s my dillema:
I researched this whole vax/anti Vax business during covid, and came to the obvious conclusions.
My wife won’t research online. She prefers to go to the Rav. Who also doesn’t research online. He consulted the village doctor, who while an elrchiche yid, is paid by the establishment, who told him all is well. So he took a shortcut to protect his parnasa. And I don’t blame him.
Now I’m the sheigetz who researches online. And doesn’t listen to Daas Torah.
I wanna be an erliche Yid.
Help
The difference between the Shailah regarding the Covid vaccine and the moral dilemma of the of vaccines against diseases vs the risks, is simply that there were not enough dare and research on these vaccines and the question was of whether to take it blindly on the limited information they had. Most vaccines on the market are tested at least 10 years prior to FDA approval. This was an emergency approval and the risks are much greater. (Please also see the Pele Yo’etz who is of the opinion that if there is even a small risk it is Assur.) The problem here was that people were willing to follow blindly without doing their own research first. When going to a Rav to ask whether to do a surgery, they first go to their doctor and get all of the medical information and bring it to the Rav to make a moral decision. There were not studies done for the effect and risks of Covid vaccines on pregnant women, and the children tested on the clinical trials came forth and testified to their long term effects, for those who were willing to listen. Unfortunately, the results are shown that in the last 2-3 years there have been a high number of stillborns, miscarriages and early term births, turbo cancers r”l and sudden deaths due to undetected blood clots caused by the vaccines. The science is all here now. Lessons can be learned.
I didn’t really get anything out of reading this. I just Wana point out that the same people who screamed daas torah when it came to smartphone suddenly threw them away when they heard their opinion on vaccines. That’s not being a true jew. You should hear some of the things they said about reb chaim kanievsky I hope he forgives them
The question is which doctor do you ask? The one who blindly follows the corrupt CDC, or the one who actually does his own research?
The answer may be clear to many, but for many unfortunately it isn’t.
I personally and family got vaccinated over the years (the necessary ones). After Covid one needs to have his head examined if he blindly follows his doctor’s advice.
“COVID vaccine” was not a vaccine the proof is in the pudding. Yet most doctors foolishly said SAID that EVERYONE MUST take it. (Of course they were blindly following the CORRUPT CDC, and threatened doctors with their license if they prescribed other proven medications known to work.
The Real Covid Origins – Originally Posted by Dr. Vladimir “Zev” Zelenko on Nov 16th, 2021
“How a weapon of eugenics, mass murder, and genocide was made:
1) In 1999, Anthony Fauci (Director of NIAID), in partnership with Ralph Baric and the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill constructed an “infectious, replication defective” recombinant coronavirus to infect human cells.
2) In 2002, NIAID and UNC filed for patent protectio securing the rights to the spike protein chimeric bioweapon now modified for use in the gene therapy represented to be a “vaccine”
3) In 2003, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention patented the genome of the SARS coronavirus securing all commercial use of SARS.
4) In 2013 to 2016, NIAID, UNC Chapel Hill, EcoHealthAlliance (led by Peter Daszak), and the Wuhan Institute of Virology violated 18 USC §175 enabling the construction and chimeric manipulation of a pathogen known to be lethal to humans (the S1 Spike Protein) in repeated and habitual felonious acts.
5) In 2015, Peter Daszak stated to the National Academy of Sciences that, “…until an infectious disease crisis is very real, present, and at an emergency threshold, it is often largely ignored. To sustain the funding base beyond the crisis, he said, we need to increase public understanding of the need for MCMs such as a pan-influenza or pan-coronavirus vaccine. A key driver is the media, and the economics follow the hype. We need to use that hype to our advantage to get to the real issues. Investors will respond if they see profit at the end of process, Daszak stated.” 2016 Feb 12. 6, Developing MCMs for Coronaviruses.
6) Beginning in September of 2019, NIAID, UNC Chapel Hill, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Chinese Centers for Disease Control conspired to conduct a global operation in the release of a respiratory pathogen to force nations into developing and deploying a global vaccine program including having President Trump sign an Executive Order (Executive Order 13887) mandating the production of mRNA vaccines months before any reported SARS outbreak.
7) In 2020, two companies who had never safely produced any vaccine before were selected to manufacture an untested and unsafe product to unleash on the population.
Thank You United States Government.
Vladimir Zev Zelenko MD”
You can *never* go wrong asking Daas Torah.
If it is a matter that isn’t for Daas Torah to address, when asking Daas Torah then Daas Torah will tell you to take your question to whichever secular expert.
But if Daas Torah *does* answer your question, that means Daas Torah determined your question needs an answer from Daas Torah.
YWN MAYBE GO ASK THE ROSH YESHIVA REB ELYA BER AND REB MALKIEL THEIR OPINIONS ON VACCINATING BEFORE YOU PROMOTE ONE SIDE.
Moderators Note: YWN isn’t promoting anything, and YWN didn’t ask anyone anything. You can gladly have a Q&A with those Gedolim and send YWN the video of their responses to publish. It will 100% be posted. Please send it to us asap!
From a different angle, perhaps related, who stated, “Since the rabbiner has become a doctor, Yiddishkeit has begun to suffer”?…