Following the news reported by YWN a few hours ago, that criminal charges have been filed against the owners of Agriprocessors, the Orthodox Union is threatening to pull its Hechsher.
According to a report by the JTA, the O.U.’s head of Kosher Supervision, Rabbi Menachem Genack said that the OU will withdraw its kosher certification from Agriprocessors “within two weeks unless new management is hired”.
“Within the coming days, or lets say a week or two, we will suspend our supervision unless there’s new management in place,” Rabbi Menachem Genack told the JTA.
It is interesting to note, that on May 28 YWN posted an article (HERE) from The Jewish Star which stated that the OU insisted that management be replaced at Agriprocessors.
EXCERPTS OF ARTICLE: It is at the insistence of the Orthodox Union that Sholom Rubashkin is to be replaced as chief executive officer of Agriprocessors, the kosher meatpacking giant his father, Aaron Rubashkin, founded, The Jewish Star has learned.
“We have said that if there were criminal culpability that we would withdraw our supervision,” said Rabbinic Administrator Rabbi Menachem Genack in an interview Tuesday. “The OU spoke to the company to say that we would suggest –– for lots of reasons –– that they should look for professional management.”
(Dov Gordon – YWN / YW-Lipas)
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44 Responses
Is there a problem with the Kashrus or the management? I don’t understand why the OU should take of a Hechsher just because there is a lawsuit going on!
The bottom line: The O-U’s political decision will be terrible for kosher meat and poultry prices. Kosher people are struggling enough in this economy; this is all we need. Way to go, O-U. While not the best quality, Rubashkin definitely lowered kosher meat and poultry prices over the past several years.
If the OU feels they can’t trust management, they can’t give a hashgacha. When the OU gives a hechsher, they are saying “We can state that this food is kosher”. Once the owners are criminals, it makes it a lot harder to make that statement. I doubt Rabbi Weissmandel is removing his hashgacha.
באיבוד רשעים רינה
Has the OU never heard of the American way of justice? They are innocent until proven guilty. The OU has also had it’s share of issues of the years but they too were innocent. Just because someone is charged doesn’t mean they are guilty.
Will the people in the ou fire their cleaning help and nannys?????
it’s fine rubashkin will get OK and move on with their lives. the most important thing is that in this month of Elul we support our fellow yiden and don’t spread lashon hora.
The O-U has exposed themselves as spineless weaklings.
This is not a KashRus issue, and they have no right to get inject themselves into this fight and pile on to Rubashkin, who is a fine EhrLich Yid and a Baal Chesed.
This is a HIT JOB on Rubashkin. Some lowlifes have put out a contract on him, since he is the largest international provider of Glatt Kosher meat.
The “Animal Rights” crazies and the Conservative Movement’s new “Hechsher Tzedek” are engaging in Mesirah, in an attempt to get rid of Rubashkin.
If the O-U had any decency, they would support Rubashkin, instead of helping the Goyim and The Refor/Conservatives bury him.
This has everything to do with the kashrus! When a company can’t get their act together it is rarely exclusive to one aspect. Anyone involved will tell you that an unorganized company almost always has kashrus issues as well.
Is this a political decision or is the OU suspicious of any wrongdoing that would then impact on their kashrus too? Doesn’t it say that we are able to see a person from the way he eats, deals with money and how he uses his temper?
If the OU pulls the hashgocha, I will assume that there was a different reason(not kashrus related) that they wanted out (maybe they pay late, bounce checks, dont pay enough),and they are using this as an excuse to terminate their hashgocha.
Also, I would be suprised if the contract between OU and Rubashkin, permits them to terminate the hashgocha, causing thousands of dollars in loss to reprint their labels, based on child labor violations.
Criminal charges were filed today against Agriprocessors by the Attorney General of Iowa alleging that the company hired under-aged workers in dangerous jobs. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/09/AR2008090901502.html?sub=AR The O-U has always said that it did not have the expertise to investigate criminal violations, but if law enforcement agencies uncovered evidence of criminal activity, the O-U would pull the heksher.
“We have said that if there were criminal culpability that we would withdraw our supervision,” said Rabbinic Administrator Rabbi Menachem Genack in an interview Tuesday. Since when do criminal charges equal criminal culpability? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? What’s the rush to pull the hechsher? Let the OU at least wait and see if they are actually found guilty of these charges.
Though I am never one to rush to judgement about another person, entity, organization, or company, I am beginning to wonder if we are not all witnessing a manifestation of the Gemorah in Makkos, quoted L’Halacha which states, “Malkin al lo tov hashemuah”. How many times must I convince myself that “they’ve done nothing wrong” and “they’re being singled out” and It’s all because of PETA” etc.??? At some point I start to wonder if there is more to the stories as each week there are more accusations and allegations of all kinds of “NON-KOSHER” hiring and employment practices taking place.
#1: Because “kosher” is more than just a status of food kashrus.
#2-Moshe Kapora, No meat is better than Treife meat. Even in a down economy. I know, I know, it’s not ‘really’ treife-I’ve heard it all.
Moshe Kapora, kishmo mamash,
By finally taking a stand, the ou is saving at least part of the Chillul Hashem, and your worrying about your pocket book.
The OU has to protect its’ own interests as well. I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes and I would hazard a guess that most people reading this don’t know either. The OU is a corporation as well as Agriprocessors.
For me, I could definately understand that the OU doesn’t want and should not be a partner to the Chilul Hashem that goes on there, on and on.
As for Kosher meat prices – well, in order to make the Mitzva of Kashrus available lets make a grand Chillul Hashem, yeh – ‘way to go’…
“Within the next week or two”??? This is the worst possible time, i.e. before the Yomim Tovim, when people have to purchase a lot of food, to make it more scarce, and thus much more expensive than it already is! If its a question of kashrus, they have to do what they have to do, but if its a political decision, then allow them a few MONTHS to straighten things out and don’t punish the already struggling kosher consumer!
I guess it’s off to Empire!
its amazing to see what the jew hating CNN had to say on this story they would never use anything other than undocumented workers when referring to illegals but in the Agri story they say illegal immigrants
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/09/slaughterhouse.child.labor.ap/index.html?eref=rss_latest
While I don’t know exactly what the OU’s reasoning is, I certainly wouldn’t trust the kashrus of someone who ignores choshen mishpat.
So in response to devil above (#1), a problem with management IS a proplem with kashrus.
No response is necessary to Moshe Kapora (#2) who thinks that anything goes as long as the price stays low.
The bottom line is that there is an allegation against Agriprocessors that calls into suspicion their adherence to Halachah. If it is found that the allegations are born out, then we have committed Chillul Hashem for the period between when the allegations were raised and found out. O-U is right here. It certainly does not help pricing, but that is not the issue.
Chilul Hashem …………huh?
Has the OU pulled the Hechsher on that famous Steakhouse in Manhattan where their very own Mashgiach told them that it’s fraud true and true with Neveilos?
How about the Yeshiva University’s hiring a MUSHCHAS for a Professor. Most of the OU people including Menachem Genack are Alumni of YU! Has anyone heard a protest about that CHILUL HASHEM ?
Great for OU lets get Agri out of business!! enough is enough.
The OU needs to answer to the other companies they certify, and from a publicity standpoint, they chose to act. This has nothing to do with kashrus and/or halacha.
The OU will have their day too. Hashem doesn’t leave such deeds unpunished. The stories you will hear will make the ‘Rabbi Lanner’ scandal seem small.
It seems the ou is threatened by the Hechsher Tzedek.
Be prepared to pay $10.00 a pound for ground meat!!
Being dan le-kaf zechut, the Agriprocessors management has demonstrated tremendous incompetence, and at the very least has done an incompetent job of supervising the non-Jewish workforce, which raises questions about whether this affects the kashruth, and in a competetive environment even unfair rumors can be economically devasting. OU doesn’t want its hecksher to get a bad name. Demanding professional management makes sense, since Agriprocessors is too big to be a family business.
RagachoverAssistant –
And what is the price for a clean neshoma?
Are you more concerned with the price of meat or keeping Torah? This is not an accusation, just wondering why you would bring up the price of meat.
shame on the OU – theyre selling their souls for a little bit of political pandering
There are other slaughterhouses in this big country and only the right people will get involved with them and develop a new honest and kosher establishment.
Once again, the usual suspects,
Flatbusher-Baki-Tikva Way
I hope the Aibishter will have more rachmanos on you than you have for other frum Yidden.
Although it looks like a union driven witch hunt, and we sympathize with rubashkin. Let us not forget the rough and tough tactics that rubashkin used to steam-roll over the other kosher plants,both large and small.
Their aggressive pursuit of becoming #1,led them to conveniently “overlook” many “annoying” shortcomings.
I hope that when it came to kashrus, they were able to suppress their bulldozer mentality
They deserve to have the hechsher removed. I saw the video that they filmed, and I saw without doubt that they did something which is definitly not Lechatchila if not worse. I spoke to Rabonim of the OU and they agreed. If Rabonim what to know the problem, I’ll be glad to tell them where to see it.
Dd (#23), fine, show me where in Choshen Mishpat it says that you have to be 18 to work. It used to be normal that if a family was in need, the kids went to work as soon as they could; it still is that way among many immigrant families, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s better than taking charity or welfare (even if it’s available, which it isn’t for a lot of aliens, especially illegal ones). I don’t blame the kids for lying – they obviously needed the work. And I certainly don’t blame Agri for not being mind-readers, or for not going out of their way to investigate whether job applicants might possibly be lying about something that shouldn’t be anyone’s business.
Choshen Mishpat doesn’t change because the state of Iowa passed a law.
Tikve Way –
You know deep inside, that all of Boro Park, Williamsburg, and Lakewood employ illegal aliens for cleaning ladies…….
[קידושין כ א] עבר ושנה בה נעשה לו כהיתר
באיבוד רשעים רינה Comment by chakira — September 9, 2008 @ 4:35 pm
Chakira-
You need to do Teshuva for calling Reb Aron Rubashkin a “Rosha”
בגמרא בבא מציעא דף ע”א [ע”א], הקורא לחבירו רשע יורד עמו לחייו, כתבו התוס’ בשם הגאון רב צדוק שיש רשות בידו לשרוף שליש תבואתו].
Tikva Way — September 9, 2008 @ 11:10 pm
RagachoverAssistant –
And what is the price for a clean neshoma?
Are you more concerned with the price of meat or keeping Torah? This is not an accusation, just wondering why you would bring up the price of meat.
Tikva Way – And The Answer Is:
תלמוד בבלי מסכת חולין דף עז עמוד א
התורה חסה על ממונן של ישראל
I DISAGREE WITH OU’s ACTIONS AND REACTIONS… SAD DAY FOR THE JEWISH PPL
Unless im not understanding OU motives correctly, I always believed Kasherout was based 100% on torah and dinim. Determining what is kosher is not connected to civil or criminal court cases. Having said that, I cannot see why the Agri
s kasherout is connected to whether there’s “criminal culpability”. OU should have SUPERVISED the plant more carefully and are to be blamed as well…
Why in the world would a religious institution depend on non halahic courts to decide kasherout…. shameful! Vote deri!
REFERING TO:
“We have said that if there were criminal culpability that we would withdraw our supervision,” said Rabbinic Administrator Rabbi Menachem Genack
Kashrus is based on trust. If you can’t trust the owners, no matter how vigilant the mashgichim, something can and will happen. When there is criminal culpability, many kashrus agencies view it as a situation where they can no longer guarantee the kashrus, as they can’t trust the owner.
Since when has the OU claimed – or did it have a responsibility – to give a Hashgocho on the business dealings of any of it’s clients? Or any other hashgocho for that matter? Furthermore, if the workers knew that there were certain conditions of employment – as abhorrently obnoxious as they are, then why is Rubashkin responsible for the employees decision? Finally, why arent’t the USDA inspectors – who were aware of the situation – as well as the State of Iowa – whose help was requested in weeding out the illegals but never came through – as reponsible as Rubashkin?
As an aside, is Hechser Tzedek an additional Chumrah above & beyond the regular Hilchos Kashrus or is it a replacement? Considering it’s originators, I wonder…
43.
According to HZ, their symbol cannot appear on a product unless it already carries a hechsher from a recognized, mainstream, kosher certifying orgnaization. Therefore it is not a replacement. It is simply a way for the consumer to know that the company making the product treats its workers according to Jewish ethical requirements.
Based on the comments made by the OU, I would venture to say, that, without being privy to actually knowing what is going on in eiher the OU or Agriprocessors, it appears the OU’s decision is based on the fact that they don’t want to continue doing business with an unprofessional company:
“These are not bad people but they’re just so sloppy,” said Rabbi Genack. “And because they messed up so many times, they’re just piling on.”