UPDATE IN EXTENDED ARTICLE: Wednesday 11:30PM: YWN has been informed that as per the directive of the Lakewood Mashgiach and Roshei Yeshiva, orientation and opening for all Lakewood’s girls high schools has been canceled.This drastic move is in accordance with the Psak Halacha of Maran Hagon Rav Elyashiv Shlita and Hagon Rav Aaron Leib Shteinman Shlita – that Lakewood’s girls high schools cannot open until all girls are accepted into a school.
As of this time there remain a few girls not accepted into school, so the decision was made to postpone the opening of school – until every girl has a school.
A message explaining the decision has been sent to all parents in Lakewood, and a letter has been signed by the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva along with the Mashgiach.
A leading Askan in Lakewood told YWN that there are still six girls which have not yet been accepted into school. Although the schools have made a strong effort, it was still not enough – and there still remain kids who are literally crying their hearts out for help.
“There is enough room for all six girls, as two new schools opened in Lakewood this year. The parents are crying for help, and are heartbroken that their fine Yiddishe daughters don’t have a place. Boruch Hashem we have a system in place where all school is cancelled until each and every child is accepted into a school”, he told YWN.
UPDATE THURSDAY 11:00AM: In Nov 2004, Harav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler, Lakewood Rosh Yehsiva ask Harav Shteinman to speak to the Lakewood Mechanchim about stopping the practice of the mosdos rejecting children. Later that day Harav Shteinman in front of 5,000 people publicly called for the establishment of a vaad that would ensure that every child is accepted. Along with Harav Elyashiv, he endorsed the psak that no school may open if there are kids left out.
In the past this psak was applied one time to girls elementary schools of Lakewood, stopping all the schools from opening until a place was found for every child. Now this psak has been applied by the Roshei Yeshiva and Mashgiach to the girls high schools, as there are 6 kids who have not yet been accepted.
(Yehuda Drudgestein – YWN)
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90 Responses
I am not G-d forbid questioning the decision of the Roshei Yeshiva.
I am wondering what are the circumstances of these girls and their families. Six girls. That’s it? And the schools are fighting over who has to take them?
Something is amiss. It can’t be that they don’t have the tuition; many in Lakewood don’t have any money for tuition. It can’t be that the schools are over-full; it’s only six girls, no more than one extra student per school. It can’t be that their families’ backgrounds are weak; Lakewood has far more than six families with non-“traditional” histories.
It would seem apparent that these six girls have serious issues that no school wants, or has the means to, deal with.
“Their fine yiddishe daughters” I wonder if that is really true. Usually the girls that are rejected are problem girls that may have a detrimental “hashpaah” on the good girls. There are also boys and girls in elementary schools who are not in schools yet. Why have they not closed down the system for these? I guess that the high school girls with problems have much more clout.
The ban is a great thing. I also see why the schools sometimes have problems accepting some girls. But the schools know this is coming. Why do they have to wait until the last minute if they know they’ll have to do something for these girls anyway? They had a whole summer to work on this? Why put these girls under such torture when they know about this all along?
Man, if only they could put this ban for every child all over the country. Especially in Brooklyn. The Yeshiva system is definitely warped. My cousin told me that they tried to “teitch up” his son who was only 2 YEARS OLD (he got out of his seat after drawing for two minutes,”Oh he has an attention span”! HE’S 2 YEARS OLD FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!) before accepting him into the preschool of a well known Yeshiva! I also heard that this Yeshiva has good resources for children with special needs. However, if the parents, for example, wants to enroll such a child into this Yeshiva for 5th grade, they won’t accept him because they’re afraid of being labeled as a “reject school”! My cousin told me that at one of the preschool graduations, this principal was thanking the morahs for putting so much care and effort into the children, etc., etc. Meanwhile, this principal doesn’t really care at all!
This is plain rishus. Plain and simple. These girls, and every other girl that was “accepted” are better than each and every one of the stuck up, baalei gaaveh that think they have the right to torture little girls. Even the previous comments here attest to the stupid gaaveh that people have making assumptions that these children are not ok or good enough. What right do you or anyone for that matter have to make any measurements of a ny bas yisroel? Any accusation that the hanhallah of the girls schools can make regarding any particular 13 year old girl is sick and deranged. I would take any one of these 6 girls averos over thiers before the yom hadin any day. Glatkup and financialartist, you proberly should think twice before starting up with little 13 year old malachim. Try picking on someone your own size; Cowards!
The schrewals in Lakewood do this every year. Its a complete shanda that kids have to jump hoops to get into schools. If I was a kid it would turn me off soooooo fast.
Finally! someone is standing up for “the others”. The schools have turned so narrow minded and business like it’s tragic! Trust me, the school system in “my city” needs a lot of change. Being a nobody/someone without influence has shut my family out of a particular educational system….. the schools are really not worth as much as they feel they are. The ordinary kid who need just that little extra piece of attention to help him learn should rather be turned off the system and go off the derech….
The problem with this ban, is that it is starting to make parents lazy and non-accountable. Whereas in the past parents conformed to guidlines in the fear of having their child rejected, they no longer have that fear, as the Rosh Yeshiva’s will ensure they are placed into school.
#1 financialartist
Quote: “I am not G-d forbid questioning the decision of the Roshei Yeshiva… Something is amiss… It would seem apparent that these six girls have serious issues that no school wants, or has the means to, deal with. ”
Quote: “Six girls. That’s it?”
My dear friend, Where are You?! Don’t you hear what you are saying?!
You start out saying that you are not questioning and then proceed to question their decision. Do you not consider that these Gedolim (who are michanchim themselves) took into consideration the reason why these girls weren’t excepted and non-the-less ruled that it is imperative for them to be excepted regardless?
Furthermore, has it ever occurred to you that 6 frum girls are not just six frum girls, but rather 36 frum children, 216 frum grandchildren, and 1296 frum great-grandchildren? Are you ready to throw that all away over a chashash that they “may” influence others l’ra?
It would seem that these are not students that were kicked out of these High Schools, but rather not excepted as Freshmen. If so, do we have no faith in our Rabanim and Rebbetzins to be mashbia on them? If not, then it is the “staff” that needs scrutinizing, not the students.
When I went to High School there were several guys that let’s just say were piling skeletons into there closets. Fortunately, the Rosh Yeshiva say them for who they could be as opposed to who they were. He slowly and deliberately started working on them over the 4 years and encouraged them to go on to learn in Israel. They have since (most of them) become choshiva talmedei Chachomim and mechanchim (perhaps your kid’s Rebbe). At least one of them is a Rav of a Kehilla in NY.
This (that Rosh Yeshiva) is the difference between a “job as a Rebbe” and a “Rebbe that’s Marbitz Torah”.
If a Rebbe or a principal doesn’t see himself as a “mashpia” and also that each student is a precious child of his, then he’s in the wrong profession!
“Six girls” is “Six precious daughters”!
Remember that!
I partially agree with lakewoodbubby and destro613. It is wonderful to see the Roshei Yeshiva standing up for six Bnos Yisroel and making sure that they too have a place to go.
Lakewood Bubby, the schools keep the parents waiting on purpose, hoping that they will take their daughters and put them in an out of town school. Good for these parents that they held out the whole summer and played the “game”. And the rabbonim are on their side!
Glatekup, just wait till you have a daughter or grand daughter who is rejected from school! Girls are not necesarily rejected because they are “problem girls”. I pray you should never know the pain these parents and girls go through.
The is great!!!! if sombody opens a school he has to relise that he has to take problem girls to ” if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen ” to run a mosed only with BOYS or GiRLS who get marks of 100 is no kintz evrybody could do if you have a student with a proble fix it don’t brake it more WHY IF YOU HAVE A BROKEN CAR YOU GO TO THE MEKENIC & SPEND MONEY TO FIX IT BECAUSE ITS YoURS THE SAME HERE IF YOU OPEN A MOSED YOU HAVE TO HELP EVRY CHILD TAKE TIME OF THE DAY & SIT DOWN WITH CHILD & LEARN WITH HiM or HER TO SAY OSER YOU DON’T HAVE TO A TALMID CCHEM TO SAY MUTER evrybody could say oser . The same to trow out coould evertbody so I want to tell for this HANHOLHA who is throwing out children from schools you are playing with FiRE acry from a father or mother or child will hit you back
Can someone explain to me why there is such a lack of ahavas yisroel in the ‘makom of torah’, lakewood?? They preach ‘Follow the Torah” but they don’t practice all the laws? Instead they take the laws in their own hands! What has happened to us? This is absurd. I mean, should we be saying ‘Wow! Look how nice they are! They are really putting out for the klal?’ Or should we question this indecency?
This whole situation of not getting kids into schools is not teaching the children that Torah is Emes and just. Its teaching these poor children that when your not a certain standard, your a nothing. Look at the rate of children going off the derech! I think these two issues have what to do with each other.
Torah and learning should be given over with love. Not with this total unjust and unfairness.
It is about time that the rabonim step up to the plate and come out with a psak of this nature. Maybe these girls could not get in to a school because they are not the best students and in adition to that they are not wealthy. When you have the big bucs you are able to get your kids in to ANY yeshiva or school because even the kids are not so aya aya yay things are looked away.
I think it is WONDERFUL that the Rosh Yeshiva is forcing the schools to pass the mesorah on to ALL members of the kehilla, and not treat some girls like trash, instead of like the chelek Elokah me’ma’al that they are. Even if they are “problem girls”, it means we have to re-double our chinuch efforts with them, not chas veshalom throw them our like yesterday’s newspaper.
heartbreaking
First of all, there doesn’t have to be anything wrong with these girls. The arguement that its just “one more per school” was undoubtedly used over 100 girls ago. They just got left out. Sometimes people in Lakewood make the mistake of only applying to one school that the odds are slim to get in. After they hold out, they’re stuck in this prediciment.
By the way, where I’m from, every year, BEFORE school is about to start, all the rabbonim and principals get together for a long meeting. It isn’t over until EVERY girl is placed in a school. How placing these girls, no matter how inconvinient, can take so long is a bizayon on Lakewood. I wonder how these six girls are taking it? Nebach for them- and I hope they don’t read the judgmental comments above saying they must be bad girls.
Agreed – the school systems in lakewood, brooklyn and elsewhere are lacking in priorities.
My sister was rejected from a high school because she wore skirts that were too LONG.. yes, too long, so now they can cover too much skin?
When i was in a well respected litvish yeshivah in brooklyn, the rebbe taught us chumash in yiddish, and on day one of first grade when we learned “birayshis – in unfong” he refused to tell me what that word meant. It wasnt until 4th grade that i finally understood the meaning of chumash.
#1 WOULD YOUR OPINION BE THE SAME IF IT WAS YOUR CHILD NOT ACCEPTED ?!!!
For everyones information:
This is not the first time this happened in Lakewood. Three years ago schools didn’t either start until every girl was placed in a high-school.
Now it’s just publicized.
It’s just really sad that these 13-14 yr. olds have to go threw this.
EXCELLENT. All children should have an opportunity to improve. I’m thrilled with this decision.
This is a good decision setting the standard all Jewish girls and boys should be accepted to school regardless of their background. We need to adopt to our childrens needs and not that the children should adopt to the school needs.
Schools closed but taking tuition for those days?? Saves alot of money on utility costs.
#2 Glatekup said,
“Usually the girls that are rejected are problem girls that may have a detrimental “hashpaah” on the good girls.”
When will the frum olam start worrying less about the hashpaah these girls may have on the “good” girls, and consider more strongly the hashpaah the “good” girls can have on them. After all, if the rest are so “good” it is much more likely that they will influence the one misfit, than vice versa.
I don’t know what kinds of things you may have in mind, but unless these girls are known drug trafficers (or worse) they (and klal yisroel)would probably benefit from the schools sending a message, that “you are one of us and we won’t abandon you”.
Shame on those of you blaming the girls! They do not have to be problem girls to be rejected. Our family just moved to an observant community last month. My daughter did not have the privledge of a Jewish education since we are recent Ba’alei Teshuva and there were no Jewish schools in our area. I had three schools tell me “they wouldn’t know what to do with my daughter” and therefore reject her for admission. She’s 13, is she beyond the age of being educated?! One school finally, stepped up to the plate and agreed with me that every Jewish child deserves an education. Unfortunately, my daughter felt so rejected by the schools that she questions why in the world we bothered to come to a bigger community. So much for telling her that being observant would be easier in a larger Jewish community. Hopefully her experience in this school with help her overcome the pain of being rejected by the frum schools.
Well I don’t know any particulars, and these girls may be wonderful girls, but keep in mind, 6 girls are about 1% of Lakewood High School girls.
Don’t you think that 1% of girls have had serious issues in elementary school. Don’t you think that 1% of parents have serious dealing issues, and cause pain and suffering to a school adminstration. This is not preschool, the facts are all known from elementary school.
I see the system working. The schools each look for their students’ benefits, while the Rabbonim use their “Veto” power to work things out for the community’s benefit.
As for those comenting about TV, Internet & Long Skirts, you guys sound just like American Liberals, you are saying the parents don’t have to bend, it is the school that has to bend. Shame on You! Noone owes you anything! Try to conform (and I say try, not necessarily succeed) or be left out.
KOL HAKAVOD,
1. there may have been other issues, like what comes first chinuch habanot, or the business$$ of chinuch, and this was a great opportunity for the rabbonim.
2. This is a question of pikuach nefesh, and who on these comments decides that the blood of even one girl is not as chushuv as your own.
3. In munkacs the Minchat Elazar locked all shcita to get tikkunim in the city. YES, lock all the mikvot nashim, the menahalim should be running to accept the girls, even as the takana was written, but they were afraid?? of the competition.
4. WONDERFUl, now lets get a city vaad hachinuch to decide chinuch issues on a global scale and maybe make all these schools a communal responsibility and achrayut, the same for the boys, meat..etc
KOL HAKAVOD to the rabbonim they are doing their job, without shocad just in time for ellul & this weeks parsha
ktiva vchatima tova to all
Two comments?
It is amaxing that Rav Elyashiv Shlita and Rav Shteinman Shlita have more clout in the USA than in Israel. Just today there is a story about an Askenazi Beit Yaakov Elememtary School turning away Sephardi graduates of an Agudas Yisroel kindergarten in Elad.
Secondly, there is a truancy law in New Jersey. if the girls do not start school soon. they may ne forced to go to public school.
What are the many attitudes accepted in the community that led to this, so this does not keep on happening. There is so much bringing of Egulah HaRufahs/people being cut off that it is becoming a culture of indifference. We have to work on the disease after we treat the symptoms-and starting in Lakewood “Ir Hakodesh”–I will be disapointed if I do not hear top people speak out against this.
#25 I actually heard this comment from an administrator in a school
#11
If the problem arises out of issue eg or internet then the parents are not conforming to the rules. They are responsible for their actions. Move elsewhere where the community is not concerned about the negative influence.
As it is I can’t understand how people feel no concern about moving there and adulterating the Ir Hakodesh which is trying to maintain a standard
#13- the schools keep the parents waiting so that they’ll throw their hands up and send them out of town? I hate to break it to the lakewood schools but out of town schools do not want your problems. The out of town schools are getting stricter about only accepting girls from other cities where there is no hashkafically acceptable school. I have out of town boarders and they are girls who’s parents are in Klei kodesh or are working in other fields in far out cities. exceptional girls. I know that the school here has turned down problem girls from other cities. It’s not fair to throw it on out of town just because we’re not near NY or Lakewood and the school’s are getting fed up here! Lakewood should do like out of town and have one communtity school for boys and one for girls with the other schools being able to be more selective. in Out of town you will never hear of a child not being accepted into school. there is no such thing!! The 2 schools that were open first are community schools- they’ve been opened for over 60 years (at least where I live). All other schools that opened after are more selective. However both of the older schools are excellent schools with top notch chinuch. and anyway we have a self weaning system here- the very modern kids don’t want these schools anyway and they send to the more modern schools because there is a large selection of “types” of schools. Maybe if Lakewood had all types of schools, the more modern kids would want to go there and they would by default not apply to the frummer schools. and maybe these 6 children are good kids who just have no yichus, nebach their parents are forced to work because there’s no one to support them? Is this why they were not accepted?? Would Hashem not accept them into olam haba because of this?? I think the one who learns all day because he has support and has yichus but who’s midos have alot to be desired is getting into these schools but I fear for them in Olam Haba.
#11
Be aware that many of the issues arise from the behavior of the parents who don’t conform to standards that Lakewood as a whole is trying to maintain. eg internet, TV, Tznius etc
Either conform or move elsewhere where the negative influence that you are imbuing is tolerated.
This is in general a curiosity how many people take residence in Lakewood regardless of their Mehalach Hachaim and expect the society to conform to them. eg take in my kids
#35
Yes, you guys in Silver Spring, now that you have enough kids of your own, are sick and tired of taking the “refuse” from other communities. Don’t you worry, there are plenty of out of town schools that want these children and will take them with love. The rest of your post makes no sense, as Lakewood is very different from your community and you should visit the place before posting your nonsense.
The psak is encouraging; I hope that when the girls get accepted, their troubles will not continue with the “favor” that was done for them being held over their heads, and being reminded of their “status”. As for hashpaah, when we allow our arrogance to melt and treat the outcasts with ahavas yisroel, it will be they who have influenced us beneficially.
I can never figure out why R’Shteinman and R’ Elyasiv don’t do the same thing here in EY. Anyone know? (If you know & it’s L”H please don’t tell us)
I truly believe that nothing happens by coincidence. So, it is in teresting to note that Tomorrows Daf Yomi beging the sugya of Kamtza U’Var Kamtza & the reasons why Yerushalayim was destroyed & frankly why is unfortunately has not been rebuilt. It’s called Sinas Chinam. It should be mandatory reading and learning for all Lakewood residents. Learn it and learn it well. As a Lakewood resident, I am embarrased by the elitism & cruelty of our backwards class system. What many people are forgetting is that even after this crisis is resolved, these girls and their families have been severely hurt. What kind of Chinuch do we have that can’t work with a 13 yr. old girl that needs a little more hadracha?! Let’s remember that the mosdos are about the talmidim & the talmidos! It’s not about the prestige & names of the mechanchim & mechanchos! Almost anyone could open a Yeshiva & Bais Yaakov made only for girls who are perfect & excel. Everyone educator here is looking over their shoulders wondering how THEY will look! This is a horrible black mark and we have to find a way to rectify it. Stop looking at everyone else. Stop talking Lashon Hara. Stop. Stop. Stop. It might be your kid one day. Pull out the sefer Chafetz Chaim & Shmiras Halashon (It’s in English too), and get started. Mashiach is waiting for us.
The problem is that each school thinks its the best in the world and they wont take “those” kids even if there is nothing wrong with “those” kids.
I hate to say it but the administrators have thier collective heads in the ground because they dont realize what it does to the hashkofa of the kids being left out of school until the last minute. Its torture enough for the kids, why make them go thru additional stress.
#10 – Yasha Choach to you Softwords – beautifully expressed.
unfortunately, YNW is misrepresenting the situation.
As someone intimately involved in this situation, I can tell you the “real deal”.
These girls were accepted to schools. They don’t want to go to the school that accepted them.
They want to go to the more “popular” schools.
The only difference between the school are that these are newer.
Please, don’t assume the worst before knowing the whole story!
I shouldn’t have to write this because mechanchim shoult know better.
A jewish child should have the value of at least a diamod that needs work. Would some one throw it away because he cant finished it. If this child reqires more work, you as a mechanech have to it. I am sure if this would be your child you would find a way to take of it and not reject it. When parant send a child to a yidishe mosad and pays tuition they expect to get the same service that the mechanech would do for there own child. Remember you are “don dinay nefushes” and generations to come. When you are in chinuch you have this responsbility, if you can’t handle it you don’t belong in chinuch.
Rabosei…there currently is an urgent situation, where a very chushuve girl from a large mishpacha from up north, with nebach a baby brother with down syndrome, is currently not in a school…please do what you can to help…her name is Bracha (Bristol) Palin.
p.s. she is considered from a ‘normal’ american family. any of these girls who can’t get into a school, compare to her??
I personally know some of these girls who are not accepted into schools (or weren’t for a long time, and finally got accepted). because, some of them don’t fit the perfect “mold” of these schools standards. First off, you should know, that they are very nice, smart, and good hearted girls.
In my opinion (and others I know as well), think they should open another girls high school in Lakewood, that cater to the girls who don’t exactly fit the specific criteria these schools are very strict about. Even those who were accepted in school (last minute after months of pleading with many schools), don’t always feel comfortable in the school they are in, they feel like they are being put down at times for not being a “certain way.” Or the fact that they feel like the schools last minute “pity case.” acceptance, (that most of the other students are aware of by the way).
Believe it or not, there are a lot of other “types” of Jewish families who live in Lakewood. This town has become very diverse, but some of the residents here are in complete denial of that fact. So it isn’t because of who these girls are, their intelligence, or how special they are on the inside. It comes down to if they own a tv, computer, a father not wearing a black hat, a mother not covering her hair in a specific way, etc.
The more you make Jews who happen to be more modern feel exiled, rejected, and uncomfortable by the many looks (& remarks), the further you are pushing them from the religion altogether.
I will not go into details, but I know many people who’ve had this happen to them, and I personally know of someone who was frum for over 30 years, they came so far, but was shot down one too many times by inconsiderate, ignorant individuals, that now they are completely NOT religious in the least bit.
did anyone ask any of the local “at risk” askonim the outcome of putting girls in schools they don’t want to go to, but are “placed” in so everyone is happy that every girl is in a school. What about parents realizing that the local mosdos may not be for their child and finding different options.
My son is LD and I was horrified the way schools treated/mistreated us and act towards their fellow jews. Once upon a time, yeshivas were a community service. Today it is a business and all that matters is reputation and dollar signs.
Rabbosai,
I’m apalled. Am I to believe that hundreds, if not thousands of Bnos yisroel will be kept out of ‘school’ learning Yahadus and the derech to proper Avodas Hashem, all because of a small group of arrogant, vigilante school principals??? Wow, them’s really big pleitzas over them, thar, hills!!
As an insider, I am appalled at the total breach of halacha that should be condemned on YWN. Every commenter that speculated or outright criticized these blameless girls must ask themselves; do I know the girls who I am rushing to criticize?? You have absolutely no idea who theses girls are and what they are like, yet you assume they are girls with issues who must somehow be inferior to the hundreds of girls who got into school! The truth is very different. These are not necessarily problem girls. If only “at risk” or “problematic” girls didn’t get into school, there would be a lot more then six girls not yet accepted. It is shameful why certain girls don’t get in to school in this community; hpwever, I will not jump on the bandwagon and join this terrible trend of spreading outright lashon hora and rechilus in a very public and potentially harmful forum (were this thread to reach the hands of the unfortunate parents and only exacerbate their hurt feelings).
The way school “select” which students to accept is no different than how Mengele “selected” life or death in Auschwitz.
People want to know why there is such a big “at-risk” problem in the teen age world THIS IS HOW IT STARTS!!!!! How can you blame a Frum Jewish person for going off the “derech” when they apply for a JEWISH school and their told that we have no interest in you or helping you!!!
How come there was no “at risk” problem in old Europe BECAUSE EVERY JEWISH CHILD WAS ACCEPTED NO MATTER WHAT LEARNING, MONEY, YICHUS ETC. LEVEL THEY HAD. There was no accepting or not accepting YOUR JEWISH AND THAT WAS THAT.
What an embaressment it is that Gentiles to hear that the Frum Jewish world picks and chooses and declines Frum Jewish children!!!
!!!EXPLAIN HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN MENGELE!!!!
-declined Frum Jewish student
let me tell you a story about RABBI HELLMAN ZL
rabbi hellman was the principal of bais yakov for 64 years in boro park
one day a teacher brought a piece of cheesecake and a coffee for rabbi hellman zl he thanked her , she came back to the office a few hours later and found the cake and coffee on his desk so she asked “rabbi hellman is it spoiled to sweet? he replied no , so how come your not eating it?
after much prodding he answered “THE SCHOOL IS HANDLING EXPELLING A GIRL TODAY ,ICH BIN DAN DINEI NIFASHOS UN ICH FAST”
THIS STORY TOOK PLACE WHEN R HELLMAN WAS IN HIS 80″S
rabbi hellman zl knew the achruis of being a principal
The only thing i’d like to ad to this is people come move here (lakewood) from out of town with kids already in school and they come here and everyone should bow down to them and let all their children into school the truth is before they make a move like this they should make sure all their children will be accepted into school and then move.if you dont do that then the parents are doing rishus to their children not the hanhalah. i agree that if the family is a lakewood family their children should be accepted
living in lkwd i can tell you this problem occurs every year and their is no simple solution to this problem evidently these 6 girls arent te norm but the exception u can well imagine if out of 600 girls only 1% didnt get in thats already after all the handeling and farnegiling to get the other 100 girls who had a hard time getting in b’h we r down to only 6 girls who arent placed
you must see their r 2 sides to this issue
one side is if your girls are all placed in 9th grade starting HS in a new class and enviornment would you want one of these 6 girls who definatly have issues whether hashkofa,tznius,at risk,past use of drugs etc coming in to your daughters class and perhaps your daughter being influenced by her???after you spending 13 or 14 years shielding your daughter from the street would you be happy to have her introduced to it???so dont be so quick to jump on the schools who work hard to mantain a high standard
on the otherside of the coin is why should this girl who may come from a broken home,more modern background,parents are balle teshuva etc not be given a fair chance just as any other girl adaraba maybe by being in a good class the class will befriend her and pull her up to their standards and we will have saved and have a potential of building a nice solid bayis neeman bisroel by giving this girl a chance to prove she can rise above her weak background (or perhaps a slightly colored past)
this is a shayla of nefoshos and cant be paskened by your hum drum local rabbi but must be dealt with at the top btw unless both sides of the issue were represented when the shayla was asked its hard to say that this psak is binding today when each year the circumstanses change and must be asked anew i wonder if this was done as the letter seems to imply that this was the psak handed down 2 years ago and one can question the relevance to todays new set of circumstances
1: Unfortunately it’s a double edged sword. We in Lakewood want the best school for our children, the school that fits our particular Shnit (what ever that is), The school doesn’t necessarily feel that you fit into there Shnit (what ever that is). So if we don’t get in we jump up and down, call anybody, and everybody that might know somebody, etc. and we don’t enroll into the schools that are waiting for us with open arms.
2: Like it or not. Lakewood is a frum town; most people in Lakewood don’t have televisions, internet, etc., most people in Lakewood don’t go to movies, ball games, etc. most people in Lakewood dress more tzniusdig, most working men in Lakewood have regular learning sessions, and dress more yeshivaish. So if you live in Lakewood and decide that you don’t need to fit in, then don’t be surprised when you don’t fit in.
3: nobody was sleeping, the Chosheve Rabonim, Roshe hayeshivas, Mashgiach, and plenty of pure Askanim have been meeting with Schools, parents, and with each other all summer, and they have successfully ironed out most problems and placed most kids. They tried their utmost to place every child before school starts.
B”H the gedolim are getting involved. I can tell you from first hand experience that 75% of the administrators and principals today are only interested in money, their pesach and summer vacations, their reputations, and their kovod. It was not like this 20 years ago. This is why we have 10 times the kids at risk as we did then.
I am sure that when Reb aaron Kotler established Lakewood this was NOT what he had in mind.
THERE IS NO REASON THAT A CHILD (YES HS GIRLS AREW STILL CHILDREN)SHOULD HAVE TO CRY SO MUCH AND FEEL SO REJECTED.
there is so much hot headedness in lakewood it is apalling. why should children have to suffer. lets see what happens to them after all the rejection from this. then they FINALLY get accepted and are looked at as the “what was wrong with them that they couldnt get in”
All the schools in Lakewood should be ashamed of themselves. All the chinuch that is taught in your schools is worth nothing if you can let children beg and cry to gfet into a school.
I support this move. Not only is rejecting students to the point they have no where to go unprofessional, it damages the child’s esteem.
Educators MUST take on the challenge of educating all students or they are not educators; they are farming kids, instead.
Yid 613 wrote..
unfortunately, YNW is misrepresenting the situation.
As someone intimately involved in this situation, I can tell you the “real deal”.
These girls were accepted to schools. They don’t want to go to the school that accepted them.
They want to go to the more “popular” schools.
The only difference between the school are that these are newer.
Please, don’t assume the worst before knowing the whole story!
So what is the story, 613? Why shouldn’t the girls want to go to the new school? Could it be because every year a new high school closes down? can you really blame a parent for not wanting to send to a school that has no stability? All of the big rabbonim and mechanchim should send THEIR kids to the new school, and show their support. Only then does a new school stand a chance. but no, instead they just shut down school so the girls can stay home and be bored out of their minds.
Well if no school wants to take them, maybe the solution is PUBLIC SCHOOL & than everybody is going to take them as its Called KIRUV or Saving them from Assimilation & what is amazing about us frummies is, that we are always busy with KIRUV & that includes the Russian Jewry or Sephardic Jews, however our own we distance them & then when they stray or get of the path, all of a sudden everybody gets involved, Unfortunate than its too late & yes I have had some of these experiences with my own kids. & I know first hand what this means, but does anybody really care ??
absolutely not & there is nobody out there to stick up for you or even remotely interested in helping you.
Rabbosai lets wake up & stop this intolerance or judging innocent you girls for some stupid reason. All I can say nobody cares until its to late to save them. But speeches they give until you are blue in the face, but these Menehalim are never to blame its our fault & we are always the blame but they are the experts on judging character.
As Rabbi Eisenshtark from Montreal once publicly stated “if we were more personally and intimately involved in the education of our children..that is, we learn to be available to give our children more of our time and attention and are also more comfortable with our own level of Yiddishkeit…then it would not matter to us if our children’s classmate was on a seemingly lesser level”. We would then also stop putting such pressure on the schools and all these “shteeblach” type schools would cease to exist.
option #1: Home School
option #2: Create your own school. Below is a real example. A non-Jewish co-worker did not like the schools available to his kids. He got together with other parents and created a school. 100 students.
Monthly Budget
Rent $ 3,950
Utilities $ 1,500
Insuramce $ 800 (year)
Worker Comp $ 1,400 (year)
Salaries $20,000
books 400 per student paid by parents
total $30,000 a month to run school.
City school system provides ESL
There is a scholarship fund
1 principal. 13 teachers (10FT, 3PT)
School hired an ASEP teacher.
my co-worker has 4 kids in the school. He is paying $300 per month per kid.
note: I didn’t check the math.
Either option provides drama-free education.
37- nothing was meant to insult you so I’m not sure why you took it that way. i am not from silver spring and so am not in the situation to comment on the matzav there. however, how can you have a tai’na on out of town schools not wanting to take girls from other cities with issues if your own city of Lakewood won’t take these very same girls (who may or may not have issues)who actually live in their city and who they have an achrayos to. your expecting a double standard here. Out of town does not have an achrayos to girls not from their own city. we have enough of our own issues to contend with and we certainly don’t expect other cities to deal with them. Lakewood should do the same whether they want to or not and i’m sure that if they deal with it, everything will be fine at the end.
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE PROUD OF…
This is the 3rd year that Lakewood schools are playing the same game. These girls are not cattle to be traded on the open-market rather they are sensitive and holy neshamos.
Maybe spend the time in June putting the books in order, now is NOT the time to hire new teachers, write up revised roosters and change the schedules so that new girls can be admitted without shame. This action should be done during the 3wks, time reserved for ahavas chinom instead of now. Get with the program and stop hurting the youth, is there still a question ‘Why there are so many kids at risk? and stressed out families?’
its funny how people always say there was no at risk kids in europe. what about all the kids who went off the derech in the haskalah. dont delude yourself europe had plenty of problems too.
to #42, Declined Jewish Student–Actually, in the Gentile world, some send to public school where they have an obligation to accept you, unless you walk in with a knife. Others choose to send to private school. But they understand that a private school has the right to accept and NOT accept anyone they darn please. Get with the program…the yeshivos nowadays are Private schools, get it? They do what is good for them, and if a kid has no school and stays home the whole year they will not lose sleep over it.
Your comparison of yidden to nazi germans is pretty drastic, but then again you must be very upset, as this is a very upsetting, terrible situation. Please find it in your heart to forgive and Hashem will forgive you. It is chodesh elul…
what about the yeshivas who reject boys also?
You guys gotta cool down!!!!
By taking the whole world’s daigus to heart you’ll soon cause yourself a heart attack.
Finally!!!
This move by our Gedolim(in Ellul, no less) is such a source of chizuk and pride for me!! May Hakodush Baruch Hu view this first step in righting the many wrongs of our institutions as our communal desire for t’shuvah shleimah.
Now if only they did the same things for seminaries – absolutely no seminary could open until EVERY girl who wanted to go was accepted.
i am horrified on the comments insinuating that there is something wrong with the girls. for your info- alot more than 6 girls were rejected- just that there were 6 still not placed as of last night. Secondly, my sister is one of those girls ( who just got in today!)- and the only reason she was not accepted was due to poor academic skills. She is a fine bais yaakov girl with good middos, tzniusdik, from a great family- nothing similar to “ask risk”, and so are the other girls as well! watch before you write- you dont know who is reading this, and you dont need to make these girls suffer more than they already have by writing bad about them!
I dont understand we will go around banning Schools Seminaries Yeshivoes Chedarim and what not!! what is this world coming to!instead of now only having 6 kids out of school we will have the whole worlds kids in the streets!
Instead of banning schools do something smart and work on getting them into the schools dont make a party on the street.
there is one thing Id like to say in regard to #55: the way you describe the 6 kids that are not in school noone should ever hear of. I am one of those that you might call a reject! no I am not on drugs and never plan to be, I am (or at least was) a regular frum girl who was thrown around and dealt w/ like a deck of cards.i went through the same shame and embarasment these girls are going through, just 2 years ago. and I can tell you from personal experiance that bec. of the start I had, my begining H.S years made a terrible impression on me and on the school year I had.
so why do frum 13 yr olds have to go through all this for NOTHING!!!! and I can tell u all this touture IS for nothing bec. at the end of the day everyone is accepted anyhow so why bother START WITH IT!!!!
-from a girl who has suffered with this in the begining and is still suffering till today from this dumb MANMADE CRISIS.
PLEASE END THE SUFFERING NOW.
Toivish, what are you doing on the Internet, doesn’t Lakewood forbid internet? just curious.
Charedei Bais Yakovs are at it again, the system is as bad as WW2’s selection for life and death. Now all madels that went to the Agudath Yisroel preschool will not be accepted to the ‘heilge Bais Yakov’ in Eldad, why you ask? Back to the Sefradick verus Ashkenizic color war, and a lawsuit has been brought to the LEGAL COURTS in Israel, we are airing our dirty laundry for all to smell…..
It is time for everyone to stop trying to figure out what is wrong with these girls and figure out what is wrong with us as adults. These girls are children going through different stages of growing up and need our love and support to do just that. Our rejecting them only intensifies the problem by having these girls going somewhere where they will feel accepted and as we all know that may not be a good place.
Secondly, these girls are the minority-so why don’t the schools take a step further and give these girls the extra love and attention that they are crying for. (they will not find it in the streets).
I personally know of one really nice eidel sweet tzniusdik girl who was not accepted into any school in Lakewood last year and she had to go to an out of town high school. I don’t know why the powers that be did this to her.
The reason these girls are not accepted to a school is simple . Hashem did not reveal which teachers will have the Zechus to teach them.
to #63 regarding:
option #2: Create your own school. Below is a real example. A non-Jewish co-worker did not like the schools available to his kids. He got together with other parents and created a school. 100 students.
========================
And then what happens the next year, you have your current 100 students, you put in your sweat and blood literally, and now new parents want to send, but they have totally different ideas of how the school should run and push their ideas. Their children are “leader type” children who want to “run the show in the class” but lead the children in a downward path, together with another few of their friends who have the same ideas. What did your sweat and blood produce? No one is forcing you to send your kids to a school. Parents need to select schools that match their hashkofos and not select a school they like and then force their hashkofos, ideas and influence on the school and students.
Just as parents have the right to “want a particular school” why do schools not have the be selective in the type of clientel they take in??
I live in a private house with many neighbors (all private houses). Almost none of us send to the same elementary schools. yet they all play nicely together. But when it comes to learning, why can’t different people have different priorities??? Some feel Enlish is more important than Kodesh subjects, others feel the secular dept. should include sports, other arts, and others music etc, some general outlet. And there are others that don’t want any of it. Why can’t people (at least try to) put their kids in the schools that cater to their priorities?!?!
There are a number of chilren that “have no school” bec. the parents will ONLY send to school x and school x either doesn’t have room, has other chiyuvim (siblings etc) or simply don’t feel the families priorities match the schools.
I recall one year when there were simply not enough room in any school and there were about 30 girls without a school, 1 school did offer to take them, on condition that they agree to abide by the school atmosphere, both in and out of school. Many of the girls refused. It was “too frum”. That being the case, for those that want the extra frumkeit, why do they have to “bow down” to those that don’t want to conform?!?!
This does not mean that the girls not accepted are of this type. But it is a very big issue in town.
Another issue, is that there are some schools that are on a significantly lower learning level than others or most. Nothing wrong! That’s fine. But there needs to be a NEW high school for them. They can’t keep up. And that’s easier for a girl?!?! to flounder bec. the classes are soooo big and she’s on a 6th grade level instead of 9th? Every elementary school should have a corresponding High School. Which doesn’t mean there can’t be a mix, but if each high school caters to follow the elementary school, Much will be resolved… just my 2cents.
I think it is about time the “GEDOLIM” get together and do this in New York City and for that matter it should be done in ALL Yeshivos & Bais Yaacovs. The situation has got totally out of hand. The kinderlach and the parents are being played with and it is not a game, the schools are playing with lives. It is a very nice thing to do kiruv, BUT should the frum children be forgotten about. I guess these “unwanted children” should go to public school and then the “KIRUV” people will get them into yeshivos & bais Yaacovs.
I know of a case that a menahel of one yeshiva called the menahel of another yeshiva and offered to make a “TRADE” (playing a game with our kinderlach” He said “I will take in your 10th grade student, that you do not want back in your school and you take in my 10th grade student that I do not want in my school”. He got a very shocking response. “NO”. He asked then ” what will be with this student”? This aswer was even better “I don’t care, I will not take my student or your student”. Two other schools said “we do not take “transfer students” in middle of high school”. What should a parent do if they made a mistake and sent their child to a school that was not as great as they thought for their child? Now they are at a stalemate, the school they sent their child to is not for their child and no other school will take this child. Let me tell you we are talking about hundreds of children, not five or six. It is time the Rabbonim get involved and put a stop to the agmos nefesh that these parents and children are going through. If anyone wants names of schools that are holding these children as hostages, please respond to me directly.
PS One menahel said to a parent last week “EVEN IF HARAV MOSHE FEINSTIEN WOULD COME TO ME NOW AND TELL ME ‘TAKE IN THIS CHID, I WILL TELL HIM NO!”
my daughter-in-law received no letter that school might start late for her daughter because some girls were not yet placed. Maybe school shuoldn’t start until there are competent sacretaries in the administrative office.
my father-in-law was a mnahel of a girs’ hi-school and took in girls who were veit veit and are now nont nont.
My grandson was being refused in in one school inlkwd because he had trouble running fast during recess. Was the Vilner Gaon or the Sfas Emes a fast runner?
there are many ehrlicher mchanchim but also those who bow to “my school has to be the top top student school, etc.”
Every Jewish child is an olom mollei. the acharayis is phenominal. The administration that makes decisions shoul go through an educational course that teaches the basics, no gaavoh, work for kidush Shem Shomayim, yiras Shomayim, etc.
My daughter is going to high school this year. All the girls that I know that are not accepted, only want to go to a certain school. They think by waiting it out that school will eventually accept them.
81…it is sad when our educators are not listening to the advise of gedolim. Parents should band together and refuse to pay tuition, stop the checks at the bank, until they follow gedolim and place all children in schools. WE ARE PAYING FOR THIS, WE ARE THE CONSUMERS AND WE SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN HOW THINGS ARE RUN, not these heartless anti Torah “thugs”. shame on them. how can they go to shul rosh hashana with blood on their hands.
Neve Aliza….There are plenty of people in Lakewood that hurt more than you will ever know about what is going on here. There really is so much good in Lakewood! It is a growing town. People are immature. It will take a while to realize what is REALLY important in life. When life really becomes about Torah, Middos, Chesed & we are dan everyone L’kaf zechus…Lakewood would have grown up. It’s not fair to knock EVERYONE here…We are trying….Shabbat Shalom
Pashuteh Yid- It’s hearing impaired, not hearing impairment, Please be considerate to those who might be offended.
is this shameful manmade disaster over yet? any update?
Actually, JustMe99, Pashuteh Yid is right. The politically correct way of phrasing a disability these days is “child first,” i.e. “a child with a hearing impairment.” “A hearing-impaired child” insinuates that the child is primarily hearing impaired rather than primarily a child. This applies to all disabilities: say, “a child with autism” rather than “an autistic child.”
I’m just a kid although according to what i learnt in class there is a concept called “tikun haolam ” which to my understanding is known as “for the good of the whole” it is my feeling with this concept in mind that i think that the rabbinic ruling associated with the postponemnet of education is unjust to all the girls who must wait for thier schooling to begin for the sake of “a few girls” and even though i realize that thier neshamot are valuabe just as everyone else’s i think it would be safe to say that it is not worth postponemenet of education for hundreds of other equally valuable girls.
Sincerely,
Just a kid
i am a parent of one of the six girls who were not accepted into h.s. yet. trust me its way more than six girls.to the person who wrote these girls just dont like the schools they were put in.you are right.they wanted to put my daughter into a scool that was more yeshivish and frummer than us. the principal even agreed with us saying she would never feel comf. there.my daughter is not a rebel.she gets good grades, dresses well,and has many friends from very frum families.my issue has to do with her elem. english principal who had a conv. with me two yrs. ago and told every school that we were anti lakewood.one conversation in 9 yrs. of school and this is what she had to say? these people should be put thru the blender.not innocent families.
One of the major problems in Lakewood is that the school administators wield enormous power over the admissions and do not answer to anyone.The Rosh Hayeshivos are ignored and they are powerless to deal with the administrators, as they do not want a bruising fight.Furthermore, they act as dictators and are immune from removal as they take a community school and act as if they own it. There is no one that can stand up to them as the parents and the Rosh Hayesivas are intimidated from acting for the benefit of the Tzibur. Those of us who live in Lakewood will know exactly who we are talking about.
A) it is more than 6 kids first of all so whoever got this information, has it totally wrong.
B) what is gona be with these kids when they grow up?? i personally know of a few girls who werent accepted into highschool a couple of years ago when i was going into ninth grade. they were good girls from good families…i witnessed the sparkle in these good natured girls eyes turn sharp and bitter. today, a few of them, are NOT FRUM…it scarred these kids and the feeling of shame together with feeling unwanted does not go away so fast even if they are accepted into a school eventually…imagine it is the end of august and a 14/15 yr old has nowhere to go when all her friends are all settled and going to buy uniforms. imagine the painful feeling of rejection on a young lady who so badly wants to be good yet knows that the highschools are throwing her around from school to school fighting over who has to take her in…imagine it.
i pray for these kids that hashem should help them as it is hard enough growing up in this generation. yet, i will be surprised if they turn out to be good frum kids….
Most of the girls who do not have schools are waiting to get into this one “elite” school. They were accepted to other high schools, but are choosing to wait. This year the vaad explicitely said they will not help girls who only apply to one high school. That is what some of these parents did anyway. There are some girls that really don’t have schools. These are the girls that need help now to be accepted.
this issue is just one of many facing yeshivos and beth yaakov’s in the current world situation.different mores make for requirements that are not totally acceptable by the parents , however, required by the frum schools . as the yeshiva world matures the differences are significant and can create chain reactions if violated .i dont envy the mechanchim , however, these problems are only the tip of the iceberg. that the rosh hayeshivos of israel had to get involved makes the problem even more complicated.
somehow i hope it will reslve and the school year will start soon for these talmidos.
Pashuteh Yid – thank you! (My English teachers would be proud.)