70 Responses

1. Does anyone think the frum world will take the lesson and undo the changes of the last 40 years?

2. There are so many facets to this issue that a single idea to resolve it is woefully inadequate. Let’s consider some of these facets.

   Economy. We would hope that all of our heads of households are gainfully employed. But that is not true. Many are in kollel, meaning that the income is a bare trickle. Two parent families are B”H the norm, but that does not translate to a two income household. The parents and in-laws that bought the homes, cars, and are subsidizing may not be the wealthy folks that will fork over fortunes in donations to yeshivos.

   Family size. Our frum families tend to be larger families. Our children are born with access to free food (nursing), as Chazal describe. But they are not born with checking accounts. Often, a single tuition is a challenge for parents. Now try multiple kids. Have both boys and girls, meaning two schools, and watch the debt go up. Have even one child with issues, and nothing beyond a gofundme or similar campaign has a chance.

   Tzedokos. Our community has a severe overdose of tzedokoh causes. Not to malign any of them, but this spreads available monies thinner. Our yeshivos are critical, but you cannot reject the collector for hachnosas kallah or real pidyon shvuyim with that excuse. In most frum neighborhoods, a single shacharis can cost more than lunch. One has obligations to the shul where he davens. Shall we create wars between our tzedokos? Should we view them as competition for the limited dollars?

   Return on investment. As parents, we tend to view our expenses for chinuch as an investment. We compensate the yeshivos for assuming the daunting task of being mechanech our kids while we engage in our respective careers to mainitain our lifestyle. Are we getting what we believe we paid for? Do our kids turn out as we hoped? Do we see our investment as successful or as a failure?

   Glitter. Our yeshivos are competing with each other for their image and reputation. They speak of their yeshiva as unique and exclusive, and the true emissaries of Hashem in the continuity of Torah. They often make their admissions criteria strict, to give this image by rejecting applicants. The events of dinners and such fundraisers have grown astronomically in glitter and luxury, severely limiting the profit from the fundraisers. Will they stop this gluttony?

   Too many facets. No easy solutions.

3. when the schools will open their books and disclose what they did with the millions of
   PPP
   ERC
   Cares act
   Homeland security grants
   etc
   and when they were closed for a half a year and did not give back one penny to parents
   then we can talk
   till then
   i pay full tuition but nothing more!!!!

4. The most reasonable thing to do is hire more administrators. Especially friends and family.

5. a little context
   1. overall mosdos are doing very well meaning 90% of payrolls have been on time , the precent of bounce checks are basically a thing of the past ( 30 years ago most rebbe checks were post dated & 8 weeks behind was avg)
   2. mosdos do many good things today that were dreams years ago, as an example shabatons..catered lunches., principals getting six figures in chinuch!. plays that the audio visual bill is $15000 plus b”h ….
   so whats going on…one word ” COVID” the yeshivos and many frum businesses as well as large families did very very well $$$ during covid ( ofcourse their are exceptions) so there was a surplus and a shefa so everything got upgraded..now vayehee achar… and the frum big industries are undergoing challenging changes …
   lastly a mosad is an orchestra and all the gears need to work for it to roll and sometimes even well meaning mechanchim…cant always put together the team to stay open , 11000 is insane in bp 4000-4500 is full price in elementary

6. Most of the article mention the obvious:
   1) Prices have gone up to crazy levels! We all know that by looking at our grocery bills
   2) Many Gvirim are suffering due to the real estate market (just one example) and can’t donate what they used to.

   VOUCHERS! That is a very viable solution. Why in NYS is there no voucher allowance like Ohio, Florida and possibly Michigan????? If everyone would put effort into getting that passed, I am sure NYS can become just like other states that provide Vouchers for elementary schools.

7. excluding Chasidishe schools that are part of a kehilla
   the other schools are private businesses
   with zero accountability to anyone
   for too long they have looked at the parents as a bottomless pit
   and no matter how much money the askanim bring from Washington or Albany
   tuition never goes down
   many principals or owners of schools are running various programs out of the school facilities and making a lot of money

8. Not paying your worker on time is an issur deoraisa. What a shame that this has become the norm for so-called religious institutions. No to mention, those in klei kodesh generally live paycheck to paycheck with no safety net. What a boosha.

9. YOSSIES – You lob the most vile accusations against so many of our finest people. While there are definitely some bad apples, the school budgets are insanely high, people have gotten sick trying to make sure they can make the bills and payroll in yeshiva. Rabbeim and teachers are still working on the same salaries from before the crazy inflation, and you just call all of them thieves. Perhaps Rabbi Akiva’s talmidim could teach you a lesson. How many hundreds of people you have smeared is a scary thought.

10. what about gevirim in nursing homes, cash advance, mortgages and other frum sectors?

11. In NYC now if both parents work the bracket for vouchers is high, If that doesn’t cover a school that’s a big question..

    The first number is the FamilySize, followed by Monthly income, then Annual.

    1 $4,301 $51,610.13
    2 $5,624 $67,490.17
    3 $6,948 $83,370.21
    4 $8,271 $99,250.25
    5 $9,594 $115,130.29
    6 $10,918 $131,010.33
    7 $11,166 $133,987.84
    8 $11,414 $136,965.35
    9 $11,662 $139,942.85
    10 $11,910 $142,920.36
    11 $12,158 $145,897.87
    12 $12,406 $148,875.38
    13 $12,654 $151,852.88
    14 $12,903 $154,830.39
    15 $13,151 $157,807.90
    16 $13,399 $160,785.41
    17 $13,647 $163,762.91
    18 $13,895 $166,740.42
    19 $14,143 $169,717.93
    20 $14,391 $172,695.44

12. Maybe when the mosdos are run properly, they don’t use hekdesh money to INVEST in risky (or even less risky) deals, maybe then they won’t have problems. Maybe when they don’t take insane paychecks for themselves there won’t be problems. Maybe when they stop the disgusting practice of taking advantage of their female teachers and pay them similar salaries as the rebbeim have been getting for several years now, maybe they won’t have problems.

13. to
    thinking clearly
    you are not addressing my point
    i did not say anything against the rabeim
    i asked where is the money
    open the books
    its public record what schools in Flatbush got for PPP ERC etc
    before you go and schnor more
    address the issues

14. To the poster talking about vouchers as being a solution – at least in Ohio, low-income families are not allowed to be charged more than the voucher amount, which is less than the actual cost per child for the school. If the pool of low-income families eligible for those vouchers is, in aggregate, paying more tuition without vouchers than the combined vouchers would be for the same group, then the school would come out behind if the state enacts vouchers.

15. Over here in the UK,
    There is a certain frum girls school-“A” that was holding a “critical future” campaign, with the usual, melamdim have no pay etc etc, (I am not degrading the mosdos ch”v i am just repeating a story that happened with one particular place) a friend, whose wife works in school “A” and is responsible for receiving, cashing etc checks and payments (financials), told my friend, that it wasn’t even true, there was way more money coming in then going out.
    The question remains, where is the money going….?

16. @YOSSIES,
    I wrote my last message above before I even saw yours, but it is interesting, because the story that I mention above, happened in one of the most affluent Chassidish Kehilla schools around..

17. This has nothing to do with a certain part of klal yisrael, it is a general problem.

18. try

19. AYidIsEhrlich,

    Can you explain? What changes do you refer to specifically??

20. I find it very interesting that people who do not claim to be directly involved in Yeshiva operations feel that they have a place to comment and criticize. Yeshivos notoriously operate in the red. I worked for a number of years in the business office of an out-of-town elementary school, with a parent body that was for the main part a 2 income household. the goal was that tuitions should cover payroll. The other bills had to be paid thru fundraising, etc. The salaries were not high, but were competitive. I currently work in another Yeshiva, also the payroll numbers are low, and they try to pay on time. Most COVID funds were used to pay salaries, or make much needed improvements and repairs. Please, before you make a general accusation, KNOW the facts. Don’t just assume… because it has to be that way… it doesn’t make sense otherwise…… or any other excuse you think of.

21. Also, I don’t know of any Yeshiva administrator that makes a tremendously large salary i.e. is getting rich off of their Yeshiva job. ( That doesn’t mean that there arent individuals that scam the system, but don’t malign the super majority that are hard working, dedicated administrators who work for a sum that is well beneath the market rate in private industry.

22. I’m actually quite shocked at a lot of the comments here.
    Why is anybody blaming the mosdos? I don’t understand it. A school is not a money making business (most of the time). It is opened for a reason and a need, and of course the administration deserves to get paid for their tireless hours of work.
    Even though tuition is a huge expense on a family’s budget, the total income from tuition NEVER covers the school budget. And that’s without including parents who get discounts.
    The disgusting people who take a real serious crisis and spew garbage about how it’s the fault of the administration, have to remember that they, too are yidden, (I mean the human reverse garbage disposals and not the hanhalah that they enjoy bashing) and that they will have a lot to answer for when the time comes.

23. Teachers’ salaries and particularly female teachers (Moros and English teachers) continue to be so low that girls don’t want to go into chinuch because they know they won’t be able to support their families.

    The little I know: I 100% disagree with your paragraph about return on investment. A parent cannot view their role as “maintaining their lifestyle” while chinuch is the role of the school. The parent may, in practice, do more working than formal teaching, and the child may be getting a good education at school in terms of information. The teachers will no doubt try to connect to the child. But in a class of between 25-30+ kids, and with a new class every year, the teacher can’t possibly assume responsibility for making sure the kids “turn out as the parents hope”. Any parent who thinks they can is fooling themselves, with truly scary potential consequences.

24. If you add up all the monies that gevirim and well-off people spend on their pesach getaways it’s in the 10s of millions so don’t tell me that they are suffering

25. Anyone who pays for private school e essentially pays tuition twice, 1)property school taxes, 2)tuition, that’s where the mission money is

26. It is indeed a רחמנות on BDY in Monsey. But editorially the panic in Flatbush leaves much to the imagination. מי ומי ההולכים?

27. “While $11,000 in tuition is low for some areas, it marks the highest tuition for an elementary school in Lakewood….”

    And why should the ehrliche yidden in Lakewood be exempt from market realities? As the article notes, $11K is well below the norm in the Tri-State area where its not unusual for MO yeshivos to charge as much as $25K-32K annual tuition and $12K-$15K is the norm. Rabbonim, morot and administrators need to earn a decent parnasah and talmidim are entitled to learn in a safe physical environment. Everything is more expensive in a post-Covid world and government subsidies are gone. If it takes TWO incomes, than that is a sacrifice parents should readily be willing to make for their children.

28. I think there needs to be a distinction made between boys and girls schools. When the teachers, morning or afternoon in a girls school, many recent Seminary graduates,, get a fraction of what is paid in a boys school to a Rebbe, I think it’s a fair question for parents to ask what’s driving these very high tuition demands.

29. Don’t rag on the people who can take a Pesach vacation. If they can afford it, and they pay their full tuition bills, so what?

30. Wake up and smell the COFFEE..!!!!!!
    the time is coming where parents will have to make a decision which is more important to them. Paying a Rebbe ,Teacher, Menahal, Principal a salary they deserve and can live comfortable and want to stay their whole life teaching our children or as a large number of families who live a high life style, buying bungallows for over $600,000 buying winter homes upstate for weekends ,traveling the world in luxury, making Vacht nacht, kiddish,Bar Mitzvehs, Tenoyim at the highest standard not even mentioning the House interior, Jewelry and the most expensive clothing.
    Then when it comes to Tuition they will NOT pay the amount the school is billing them.
    The collapse is here , the mosdos are struggling , the average middle and low income parent is struggling so don’t we all see the Domino is shifting and falling apart.
    Unfortunate we do NOT have the Administrators from the 1960s and 70s who lived off on a minimum wage and they were Moyser nefesh for the growth of their Mosed .
    Those days a Administrator wants to earn the same salary as a Wall street executive, but the rebbes and teachers should work at the minimum level.
    Sorry Wake up and smell the COFFEE..!!!!!

31. If the school charges $11,000 in tuition, and there are at least 25 children in the class, that brings in $2750,000 PER CLASS. Assuming the teachers get a combined salary of $120,000, there remains $155,000 FROM EACH CLASS to contribute towards administrative costs (principal, secretaries, maintenance, building and utilities etc. Seems to me, that is excessive and there will be a surplus to line someone’s pockets.

32. I have a great idea. KEEP VOTING DEMOCRAT!!! You people keep voting for the same political party over and over and over again. You keep getting messed up but you keep going back to the same well to drink. Do you see the problem yet?

    Fact is the economy does way better when Republicans are in office. The Democrats don’t know anything about Economics 101. They turn their cities into garbage dumps as you can see.

    To the poster who posted earlier about vouchers, if you think for a single solitary second that your tuition costs are going to go down because you have vouchers, guess again! The tuition we pay will not change one iota. Maybe the vouchers will cover all the other stuff that we get charged , such as building fund etc etc

33. NU, if they close down will that be so bad. Less childhood traumas. Let’s go back to the way it was years ago!!!

34. This may not fully solve the problem but the mosdos need to insist that tuition takes precedence over Yeshiva Week travel, Pesach in Orlando, sleep away camp, and summer homes.

35. I think there’s possibly one comment alluding to it, but shocking to see that none of the commenters can put their finger on it: a) If you downplay, malign, and/or discourage working for a living for multiple generations, b) encourage young people to wait until their late 20’s or early 30’s to consider how they’re going to take care of a family, c) generally malign and discourage professional training and a steady professional path over the hope of one day being a real estate mogul, d) layer multiple generations of learning-only families and marriages, e) concentrate all of your demographic eggs in the most completely cost-of-life insane region of North America while demanding an ever expansive, frills heavy quality of living…Guess what? We have created a perfect storm of trouble for ourselves, and the way out is to start with sane attitudes towards that which makes for healthy communities.

36. In the meantime, Catapult and Title I teachers are making a good Parnassah. I think if the clothing stores and eateries give a percentage of their revenue to the schools you will see a lower deficit in paying the teachers. And maybe instead of building multimillion dollar office buildings, the businesses can give 2% to the schools as well. Maybe there should be a mandated private school tax set in place for Yeshivas and Bais Yaakov’s in Lakewood. This is how the government can afford to pay for public schools, out of our tax dollars.

37. The frum schools have always been insolvent and will always be insolvent. Unlike elite private schools, it would be unacceptable (halachically, morally, socially, culturally) to limit Torah education to the wealthy. And since almost all our schools decided not to cancel Torah education in order to concentrate on “practical” modern subjects but still do “modern” subjects so the kids are able to function in the goyish world, our schools will have the cost of offering two educations, for the price of two (the goyim gave up their “classical” religiously oriented education in the 19th century in order to concentrate of “modern” or “scientific” subjects – and while they have invented many useful things such as smartphones and nukes, they gave up much of their culture and moral education).

    There might be some ways to reduce costs such as larger class size, use of distance education, etc., but no matter what we do we will always be broke and teachers will always worry about getting paid. It is the inevitable result of being frum. So we need to “Baruch ha-Shem” the schools are running out of money, wouldn’t have it any other way, stop whining and live with it.

38. I have the same concern as yossies. If these organizations, whether schools or tzedakos want to be upfront with the amount of income and what some of their salaries are, we’d have more passion…. no not the regular teachers or Rebbeim cause that’s pretty public… you’d be surprised at some of the salaries of the upper positions….and do u know how some of the schools service to all the failing students they received funding for???? They give them the tests, which over 95% fail, then when u ask for help for your child, they have no funding….. but yet they received funding for all these students… hmm

39. It is terrible that people have the audacity to criticize the dedication of so many people involved in running our Mosdos and to accuse them of doing what the accusers most likely do in some form or another. As far as those spouting the need for education, I would have expected that over the course of the last few months, you would have seen the great results produced by the secular higher (lowest of the low) houses of education. Those same houses of education so honored and reversed by such commentators for so many years. At least they produce people that enjoy what they call good parties, while taking mostly useless courses and getting their glorious degrees that are not worth the paper they are printed on. So are we going to respect institutions of true higher ethics based on Toras Hashem or will you still fool yourself that this is some kind of new phenomenon that showed up after Oct 7, 2023?

40. Some out of town schools have a program of “school script” where parents have to use a certain amount of their “school dollars” throughout the year in stores that accept it. Those stores pay a certain percent at the end of the year to the schools. Torah education is a community obligation and takes precedence over writing a Sefer Torah. When the whole community comes together to solve a problem, then you will see positive results. School dinners are also nice but sometime too much money is spent on the event that could be better used towards the school.

41. “IF the school charges $11,000 in tuition, and there are at least 25 children in the class, that brings in $2,750,000 PER CLASS”

    RebbitzenGolden…: Your post makes the point as to how important it is to increase tuition so that yeshivos and BYs can hire competent math teachers who can multiply 25 x $11K

42. In my opinion we have allot of problems associated with finances.
    (1) The 90% that are struggling to pay the bills ate trying to.compete with the wealthy ones by spending on everything from cars to nicer houses etc that they can’t afford.
    (2) large families that we can’t afford.
    (3) we send to seminars and school i belive we should eliminate the ehoem school system for girls and especially seminary that are not affordable.
    (4) the expensive camps needs to he addressed
    (5) the kosher food prices are completely crazy expensive the rabbanim should come together and possibly be latter OUD that’s a quarter of the price so struggling people that dodnt have food stamps can afford food.
    (6) stop with all the wateful spending on take out foods and the restaurants

43. I forgot #7 let’s educate our boys to have successful careers such as medical and law degrees to enable them to make a respectable parnassah.
    We can open up frum medical and dental schools there is enough resources for that

44. From a local administrator:
    Love it how so many people automatically choose to blame the mosdos. In comparison to school administrators, there are many more people who live excessively – go on expensive pesach, mid-winter and summer trips – all while refusing to pay full tuition. You’d be hard-pressed to find a school director who is making even close to an executive businessman salary.
    Fact of the matter is, schools are not able to run as private business, which would create a level of competitive budgeting while at the same time give less tuition breaks. Instead, we follow the policy of never-saying-no to a Yeshiva education. This policy is greatly exploited by a huge percentage of our demographic (including those who are able to afford paying more).
    I am willing to bet that @YOSSIES does not pay full tuition and maybe flies to Uman every Rosh Hashana. From experience, it’s usually the people who are devoted and “pro-Yeshiva” that go out of their comfort zones to try to pay their full obligations.

45. Schools can charge whatever they want to charge. Bottom line is, about half, if not more, yeshiva parents cannot afford to pay (and don’t pay) full tuition for their children. Especially since most families are paying multiple tuitions for years with no respite. If you’re asking where the money is going you’re making the assumption that the money is getting to the schools in the first place. In many cases, it isn’t.
    Jewish life is so expensive that both parents can be making six figures and still struggle – even without excessive consumerism.
    Rabbi Nosson Sherman once said that it’s out of vogue for people to support yeshivos. We see that there are clearly millions going to tzedakah causes all the time, people just don’t see the schools as a worthy cause. I work in yeshiva schools, and I already see a demise in the education in formerly good schools due to the shortage of quality individuals seeking and/or retaining teaching positions. We’re all in for a rude awakening.

46. @israellakewood
    Do u realize that sometimes we are forced to spend on things even when we can’t afford it?
    1.car- how much is the cheapest 8 to 12 passenger car per month?
    House- are u aware of today’s apr rate today? Not always is a smaller house with no tenants more affordable than a big one…
    2.i don’t think the schools expect family planning from us…
    5 and 6. Food is very expensive. Unfortunately many of us who have to pay mortgage utilities and tuition and need 2 working parents need to cut corners with cooking and buying take out food to have food ready in time… even if it only happens 1 a week it’s a mint…
    3 and 4. This is the actual school crises. Any suggestions??
    4

47. Our frum financial system is completely dysfunctional if a person can make a 6 figure income and yet struggle that’s a completely failed system. I hope that our whole system collapses including all the schools and we declared bankruptcy and reevaluate wether schools are even affordable a d we might find many towrh things that we cna do away with. It’s a dysfunctional system that is completely dependent on the wealth people and the min the few wealth are struglling our whole dysfunctional system collapses and I hope it does collapses!!. Every business that fails declared bankruptcy and starts from scratch I hope it will happen to our dysfunctional system!!. It’s crazy how all of us are making 6 figure incomes and still struglling!!!

48. 1 more point in my humble opinion one should consult a competent rov wether he should have a large family that he can’t manage and can’t afford.
    Not every woman is meant to have a baby every year while working full time and taking care of the children, they are not machines they are humans.

49. Another point. Why are we still spending so much on wedding expenses. I am chasidesh and I married off my son the shtremilch were 10k that’s insane and beyond crazy!!. Another point we all have to make sure before we get married that our sons have already a respectable career /buness income before they get married and not start at 25 or 30 this is not acceptable and normal!!

50. Another point why can’t we have the parents rotate and teach our boys torah ok groups in shull instead of spending all the money on tuition and why do we have to send our girls to schools. Girls didn’t attend schools prior to the holocaust?.

51. Along the many aspects that lead to this situation there are some that accusations that are a little wild.
    My position allows me full access to the books of many Mosdos.
    I will say this:
    With few exceptions there is no pillaging of funds as some people allege.
    Often times what many would consider a “nepotism hire” is fully justifiable because the hire has spent his or her formative years around the school in question and is fully trained and familiar with systems, thus needing significantly less training. Furthermore, often times these children will work at the school in question for quite some time before even drawing a salary (let me know when you find someone willing to work as a school administrator for three years without compensation to possibly get a $75,000 salary afterwards). I know one person who pays half of the salaries for his family members out of his own pocket.
    Regarding investments, there are some that are appropriate and some that are not. There is no simple answer. For example, if a donor gives $100,000 of stock and tells you to reinvest it for at least ten years, the appropriate thing to do is reinvest.
    If you can buy real estate with a non recourse loan with minimal cash investment, it’s a little iffy. If you can do it with no cash investment, that’s different (and I know of multiple schools that did this in the early 2000s when this was an option.
    If you are refinancing your building that someone generously sponsored to pull out cash to invest in bitcoin that is probably not appropriate.
    And for the Yossies and Nez of this crowd: there is some transparency, you are just too lazy or uninformed to look. Most non profits are required to file a 990 tax return annually and they are public record. You may not have the know how to interpret them, but there are plenty of people who do. (There are some nonprofits that are not required to file and others who unfortunately don’t have competent accountants. That is a story for another day).

52. But the change that in my opinion has the most affect on this situation is the Torah Umesorah raises.
    Torah Umesorah induced many schools to give raises this year by pledging to cover a significant portion of the raises for a certain amount of time.
    From what I am hearing, they are having difficulty making good on that pledge. Different schools are telling me different things. Some are getting partial payments, others are getting late payments, others aren’t getting anything.
    This is having a two fold effect, first by schools needing to cover a larger payroll than they would have undertaken otherwise (which is all around bad) and the other is rebbeim and teachers demanding higher salaries even in schools that aren’t signed up for this program (although I support the idea of rebbeim and teachers getting better compensation, not at the expense of a school going bankrupt).

53. israellakewood: Your rant included at least 5 calls for the “system” to collapse along with some incoherent references to bankruptcy. There is nothing “dysfunctional” about the fact that families with multiple children who send them to a private school, religous or secular, are going to have serious financial challenges . A “six-figure” income is not that much these days if you decide to spend tens of thousand dollars a year in after-tax income on tuition. Having yeshivos declare “bankruptcy” is a really stupid idea since whatever new mosdos that take their place will still have to pay teachers,rent insurance etc and bankruptcy will not make tuition more affordable.

54. to Mr. IsraelLakewood: when a person earns six figures, what number are you talking about? Lets say he earns 150k Gross. What is the net he is coming home with? Even if he comes home with 100k – after the taxes are paid, how much does he need every month from 100k divided by 12 which 8,333 per month. He has to pay rent/mortgage, medical insurance, food, clothing, utilities. Also, how many children does an average family have. At least five children and probably more. Then comes the tuition bill. 5 children. If the average tuition is 6000 dollars – it comes out 3000 per month they have to pay in tuition Now if you are going to raise the tuition by 40%, this average family will not be able to afford it. believe it or not, he is not drowning in extra money. i dont think you ever had such a salary with a family of five or more.

55. Hi,I am talking about a person making 250k . I dodnt see how one can even survive at all making 100k even with a small family. All honesty I dodnt claim to have an answer to anything because there is no easy answer as to why there so many familis are struggling in our community because its extremely complicated abd there can be many different factors that are contributing to this problem also I believe some.of us are at fault becuase the more money we make the more we spend many have a very hard time budgeting. If one make 250k he will spend 300k if he makes 300k he will spend 350k it is a sickness and some times it’s the husband’s fault and some times it’s the wifes fault. At the end of the most of the people that work and keep their eyes open will see that we are bh are making money and most of our bills are being covered so let’s not forget parnassah is all from hashem and just keep on davening and being grateful !!

56. The Orthodox financial system, especially in Democrat areas like NY/NJ is a disaster for a multitude of reasons:

    – Democrats expend huge sums of money for education and social programs for illegal aliens (NOT migrants) while abandoning American citizens.
    – Taxes are very high in Democrat areas to pay for the illegal aliens.
    – Too many “Orthodox” rabbis have been in bed with the Democrat Party for too long.
    – Professional higher level education, that can lead to high paying jobs, has been banned by the “gadoilim” in places such as Lakewood, while foreign immigrants snatch up high paying professional jobs.
    – Why is there no Touro college in Lakewood?
    – Overcharging for food and rent, a violation of Torah law, in Orthodox areas is rampant while the rabbis invent new fake “chumros”.

57. Right Jew U might have some good points and ai agree we should train our men In frum medical and dental schools to give them a respectable Parnassah to fulfill the Kesubah responsibilities that we took upon ourselves to support our wifes and children. The one point I Want to make that in our community even if ur a professional making 250k ur still struggling. The only ones doing well are the successful businessesmen the doctors and layers are mostly not doing that great in our community. It does provide a stable parnassah which can’t be underestimated but doest provide enough for our lifestyle. I AM TALKING FROM EXPERIENCE AS I AM A CHASIDESH GUY THAT BECAME A PROFESSIONAL AND GRADUATED WITH AN ADVANCED DEFREE AND MAKING 250K AND STILL STRUGGLING!!

58. Right Jew U might have some good points and ai agree we should train our men In frum medical and dental schools to give them a respectable Parnassah to fulfill the Kesubah responsibilities that we took upon ourselves to support our wifes and children. The one point I Want to make that in our community even if ur a professional making 250k ur still struggling. The only ones doing well are the successful businessesmen the doctors and layers are mostly not doing that great in our community. It does provide a stable parnassah which can’t be underestimated but doest provide enough for our lifestyle. I AM TALKING FROM EXPERIENCE AS I AM A CHASIDESH GUY THAT BECAME A PROFESSIONAL AND GRADUATED WITH AN ADVANCED DEGREE AND MAKING 250K AND STILL STRUGGLING!!

59. to Mr. Fake News
    most schools dont file a 990 as they are set up as congregations
    dont label anyone lazy or uninformed it does nothing for the argument

60. Is $7,500 to $11,000 for tuition really a “crisis” in Lakewood for tuition? In many, if not most, areas tuition is three times that. It is not pleasant, but far from a crisis. And there is a fairly straightforward solution, you prepare yourself for and get a decent job that pays well, work hard, eliminate or defer unnecessary expenses, and you pay the bills.

61. @IsraelLakewood:

    I’m not sure why anyone could not make it on $250K per year.

    Of course Democrat NJ is about 10% illegal aliens, and NJ state income taxes and property taxes are some of the highest in the country so that doesn’t help things.

    You might want to check out Quicken Simplifi, a very useful budgeting app.

    $250K is a lot more livable than the $50K medical billing jobs (no degree required) advertised in Lakewood.

62. Yossies:
    Out of 20+ Schools I am dealing with currently, only 2 are registered as congregations. Both of them were initially opened as congregations and then were repurposed later.
    Obviously, there are many actual congregations I deal with as well, but that is not the topic of conversation.
    I prefer to ascribe to ignorance or laziness what would otherwise be explained by malice.

63. Israellakewood: Based on your rants, and your claim to have an “advanced degree” from Yenavelt University (certainly not in economics), you may have a good case to sue your alma mater for refund of whatever tuition you paid since you claim inability on $250k/year to “support your wifes and children”. Perhaps retain help from a counselors who will assist you in budgeting your quarter million dollar income since many of us know of frum families in the tristate area who are not doctors and lawyers who get by on much less than that.

64. @israellakewood, when reading through your nazi originated concern of big Jewish families, i was literally wondering why didn’t say something else, but then I saw it in the next comment of yours:]#7 let’s educate our boys to have successful careers such as medical and law degrees to enable them to make a respectable parnassah.
    Come one go bash bashing the frum tzibbur but only you will suffer that “no-one” listens to you…

65. After reading quite a few of the messages here, I must admit that I should not have written that story that happened in london, as the wrong lesson not only can but will be taken from it, btw don’t think I don’t appreciate things, i have worked in more than one school, once teacher, once a secretary amongst other jobs, and am still owed thousands upon thousands, unpaid for years on end, so i do appreciate things, but just couldn’t take the blanketing of things.

    Anyway, YWN PLEASE DELETE ONLY THE STORY FROM MY LAST MESSAGE NOT THE OTHER PARTS.

    P.S. I was wondering, that there might be an awful but factual whirlpool going on here, and someone needs to take the courage, and cut things where they are now bfore…
    Basically, the chad gadya goes,
    the Rebbe’im and teachers can’t pay their children’s school fees.

    the Rebbe’im and teachers can’t pay their children’s school fees because they do not get paid.

    the Rebbe’im and teachers can’t pay their children’s school fees because they do not get paid, because the parents of his/her students don’t pay.

    the Rebbe’im and teachers can’t pay their children’s school fees because they do not get paid, because the parents of his/her students don’t pay, many times because they themselves are teachers or other jobs that don’t get paid.

    The answer is, and I am sorry to say this, and do not regret writing it,
    Is the Self-centredness of CERTAIN NOT ALL gvirim in our communities.
    There are who give money, but as Americans might be shocked to hear, giving £500 here in the UK makes you deserve a whole arrangement, placard, ad, present bla bla bla (and then how much of it is left over, can’t the gvirim be mochel on the about-to-go-in-garbage presentations in order that that vital money can be used to pay their staff).

    Now if it was a simple yungerman, i understand the appreciation, as he gave a real tangible piece of his parnassah, but that guy, who just sold his “very” old 5 year old Range Rover, or had the whole house redone, because it didn’t match his mood that day (and at the same time tsss’s and tuss’s about it being crazy that matzah and etrogim are so expensive), can jolly well afford something more than that, before deserving the falling-to-his-feet treatment.

    I have worked in the past for some real big names in the “world” of gvirim, and can say that there are not many that can part from their money, it is a big hard nisayon, but that is where the answer lies, I think.
    No, not everyone should go to work ch”v.
    There needs to be Torah going the whole time, so yeh.

66. bubbs ,

    Probably the most level headed and worthy of reading comment on this entire post! Deserves an article for itself. Sadly will not happen in this lifetime!

    I actually once asked this question to a very choshuve person. The answer he gave was “I imagine our gedolim thought of this question and stil feel this is the right way”. Stupid me didn’t press him further. I don’t see this as a very strong answer given. I don’t question our gedolim but many of us have seen over the years how gedolim tried tackling tough issues and failed. I don’t know if we have any gedolim capable of really making serious changes to the “system” we created over the past several decades. Everyone is scared to touch anything controversial. Perhaps I am wrong, I don’t CHAS V’SHALOM mean even ONE WORD against our gedolim. I just think there is a serious problem and I’m not so sure the gedolim have made an ACTIVE decision allowing it to continue, rather it is a a passive decision just because they know they can’t change it.

67. First of all, keep the attacks coming on the evil non-paying parents (including the evil parents who are in kollel and the evil parents who are spending all their money to travel the globe each year), on the evil paying parents who pay too much, on the evil janitors who are being paid too much, on the evil administrators, on the evil gvirim who aren’t paying their Fare Share, &c. &c. &c. I love it.

    Truthfully, we won’t know what the root causes are until we get actual transparent data from mainstream yeshivish schools, and be able to compare it to historic data or compare the data among schools.

    It would be really helpful if schools begin to publish their budget and the pay scale for teachers & hanhala. Keeping financial information hidden means there’s a fundamentally unhealthy relationship between the hanhalah and parents, no matter how many good reasons you have for this mistrust.

68. Only Hashem knows what you can really afford. And If your paying that He will grant you siyata dishmaya and your kids will excel tremendously. Yup, thats why its often the rich kids that dont do well in school…
    You focus on you and hashem will solve the worldly problems

69. “You focus on you and hashem will solve the worldly problems”

    So then its hashem’s will that these schools close (presumably because they are failing in their mission) and the good schools stay open and that parents shouldn’t worry about the increasing tuition since hashem will grant them whatever it takes to pay their bills.

70. There is no reason to believe that a crisis exists. Only a few weeks ago, over $10 million was spent collectively by frum Jews to excessively celebrate Pesach. Frum jews have bucks…big bucks. They dont prioritize where the money should be spent. If frum people would have a better opinion of yeshivas, the financial problems would fade away. Yeshiva administrators and owners have yet to make s convincing case as to why yeshivas should receive additional funds from parents and donors.