The following is a letter written by Milton Steinberg of Chestnut Ridge, and appeared in today’s Journal News (LoHud.com):
Decisions we make have consequences. Those who defeated the proposed Finkelstein Memorial Library budget also have to live with the consequences of their votes. Some of them are the loss of summer weekend openings, curtailed hours, and fewer materials and programs.
It’s no secret that the bulk of the negative votes came from a segment of the Orthodox Jewish community, whose Monsey Jewish community newspaper ran ads urging defeat of the budget. As an Orthodox Jew myself, I say, shame on you.
Last year’s library budget – which barely squeaked by – instituted summer Sunday hours. The library leadership said was one of the most-asked-for changes. (Orthodox Jews can’t attend on Saturdays.) Now we lose Summer Sundays.
As a regular library patron, I notice a high percentage of its users are Orthodox, as are some employees. Even if some of those who vote “No” have little use for secular learning, they ought to think of their children, who come regularly seeking resource material for their school curriculum.
South East Ramapo Taxpayers Association took out ads urging voters to defeat the budget, yet the group’s leader, Kalman Weber, is nevertheless effusive in his praise of the library in a June 23 article, “Spring Valley library cuts hours, services.” He said: “We feel the library is doing a terrific job. It is very necessary to the community.”
Mr. Weber, talk is cheap. It takes money to run a library.
People have to learn to think for themselves, which is, after all, something central to the philosophy of the library.
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41 Responses
I don’t care much about the merits or the pro or cons of this particulas of case. But a frum yid, or a purportedly frum yid may be a more apt description, who uses non-Jewish media to publicly criticize his brethren is beneath contempt.
Perhaps the writer of this letter doesnt realize that perhaps there was “pork” in the budget that they were voting against. I am sure there was good reason for it. Any person with the slightest bit of common sense knows that the library exposes our young minds of mush to more and more shtusim and havolim than ever before. Pick up a book and the big 3 avayros could be in there.
Bottom line is I am going with the “pork” reason as I am sure there was something in the budget that wasnt liked by the frum Monsey crowed.
The author of the letter will be happy to know that living in a deocratic country allows people to vote on these things JUST like it allows him to write what he is not happy about.
I agree with Joseph (no. 1).
Who is this guy rabble-rousing to?–the Goyim?
The guy is obvously a Maskil self-hating Jew, who has internalized the attitudes of the Goyim towards frum Jews.
The writer was right people did not realize
what they were voting for ..
I myself who always voted against the library budget did not vote this year against it because they have improved their service very much
they have a very large selection of frum books
that you can not find anywhere..
All the writer wrote was that some time you have to think for yourself before you vote and not just go with the block vote when you are just biting your nose to spite your face 🙂
Sorry to say but all the local rags publish only
one mind article’s Look what happened when we got frum people on the school board the taxes went up by one thousand percent in 15 years.. go block vote and see where it gets you..
its amazing. Any time someone criticizes frum jews he is called a maskil, apikores, etc. he is just saying that the frum jews benefit greatly from the library and as such it should be funded properly.
the overwhelming bulk of the budget is for salaries and BENEFITS. At the nexr contract negotiation, the public employees should be told that they can no longer have all the freebies (free medical, free dental, free eyecare, free prescription plans).
those who work in the private sector have been paying for these things for themselves for years already. It used to be because the public employees were paid less – 1) this is no longer true and 2) if it were true, nobody is forcing people to work at the library or in any public sector job.
it is precisely because of the “fixed” or pre-determined expenses that the budget goes up. Until this is fixed, the budget will continue to go up yearly.
I have 2 points:
1. I agree strongly with Joseph that if this is truly an “Orthodox Jew”, as he claims, then these comments to be printed in the Journal News are SO OUT OF PLACE it is incomprehensible. How could a from yid attack the frum community as a whole in a newspaper read by all of the people in Rockland county, especially all those that already hate all the frum people living in Rockland. This just gives them additional ammunition to hate us with.
2. If the writer would be more in tune with the from community in Monsey, he would know that the reason all the ads were put out to vote against this budget was to protest the ever rising taxes on the community. With the school tax, real estate tax, etc… all going up by crazy amounts in Rockland county, even though the Library tax was not a significant amount, a statement needed to be made that these budgets will not just get passed through every year. So although we all agree that the Library does an excellent job, that was finally the breaking point for the community and we made our stand.
I doubt that Milton Steinberg is paying several yeshiva tuitions (as every frum Rockland citizen is) so maybe he doesn’t feel the need to make this stand.
to #1..all those who preface their comments with the wording “as a… ” EG:….holocaust survivor,..child of…. grand child of…, as a jew …blah , blah..you will notice they will always come with hepech das what they say they are…by me its “bodik and menise…” so this is another perfect example “as a orthodox jew…”` (probaly those on the boarderline {centrist,whatever that means})and kuk vos ehr halt…
1. I know Mr. Steinberg, having davened in his shul for a number of years, and he is (a) frum and (b) a civically active, concerned citizen.
The slurs on Mr. Steinberg’s frumkeit and motives are appalling.
2. The budget wasn’t defeated by the frum community. It was defeated by the apathy of the vast majority of East Ramapo Central School district voters, who could not be bothered to come out and vote. A total of approximately 1300 votes were cast, both for and against the budget, and the pro-budget votes included frum votes. That said, Finkelstein has been incredibly accommodating of the frum community in terms of content and hours, and the concerted ‘no’ vote was a slap in the board’s face.
I disagree with Mr. Steinberg’s conclusion, that it is the frum community’s fault the budget failed, although I share his profound disappointment that the budget was defeated. While no one is happy to have their taxes go up (and really, the amount was minimal), everyone who uses the library, regardless of religious affiliation, should have made it their business to vote.
I wonder how much the Jews Hating Journal News paid the writer for this “GREAT” letter! Wow! They finally found something to write against the frum Jew!
Kalmen Weber works hard to fight for our tax money! He does great work! We need more people like him.
A simple house with hardly any property in Monsey pays over $10,000 tax a year. Where does the money go? We don’t use the public schools, many don’t use the library or public pools.
Now don’t start ranting and raving about us paying instead of the tax free houses – enough of this garbage….
1 & 3 Libraries are an asset in every neighborhood, there are resources and materials needed for school and private research. Young adults can access the internet under supervision, and the secular content of books can be useful re: traveling, gardening, human body etc. I take my grandkids when they visit to the library and the photo books and special activities are wholesome. WAKE UP & and at least SMELL the coffee instead of drinking it…
While I’d rather not pay the extra taxes to have enhanced Library hours, I also don’t believe that there was a reason to have an out-and-out anti-Library campaign. Either go or don’t and if you do go, watch what you bring into your home. Used properly, much like the internet, libraries can be a wonderful tool.
Was there “pork” in the budget? Yeah, probably there was like in any other budget, but for those that it mattered to, there were good offerings (like Summner Sundays) that were lost.
Where he sent his letter may not be correct, but the writer has a point, and calling him names makes me wonder about lessons taken from a taanis. What happened to ahavas yisroel? I feel that if you don’t care about the case the least you can do is not talk about it.
As to the case itself, I do have a comment. Had I known about the vote I would have voted in favor of whatever increase the library wants. They stock more Jewish content books than any non Jewish library I have seen. The bulk of the “pork” in our taxes is for the school budget. Why didn’t I get a post card notifying me of the vote, as I seem to for every other vote?
Yisroel Moshe
… and I want to add an additional comment. what “Milt of Chestnut Ridge” wrote will most likely garner many, many extremely ant-semetic posts to the journal news AND this will probably end-up as another Preserve(get-rid-of-the-Yidden)Ramapough campaign item. (the typical blogger will call the yidden of Rockland county as non-taxpaying cheaters and the other bloggers will echo and build on it).
as Milt said “Decisions we make have consequences” Milt made a decesion to castigate his brothers and sisters in an arena that is known to produce severe anti-semitic reactions AND he choose to do this art a time when it will come to light near or during the 3 weeks when we need to work on LOVING our brothers and sisters.
…so the consequences are MORE anti-Semitic rantings and accusations in the journal news.
Whether or not I agree with the premise of the letter is not relevant. The issue here is the forum. Milt could have sent letters to the Front Page, the Community Connections, the Advocate, Yeshiva World News, Yated or any other publications that are geared towards the Yidden. He choose to send to the journal news
Yes Milt, “Decisions we make have consequences” so now you have a another decision to make: apologize for the forum in which you choose to air your complaint or don’t apologize for stirring up the hornets nest of typical journal news bloggers against all of our wonderful Brothers and Sisters living here in Rockland.
The consequences of YOUR decision, the decision that you now need to make is YOURS and YOURS only Milt. Choose wisely.
Deepthinker, easy on another yid. Please. Don’t forget that kol haposel bemumo posel.
As far as the letter writer, Mr Steinberg is concerned there are a few points to be made.
First, do you realize what percentage of the local taxes are paid by the frum? Do you know what they get in return? Not a fraction! The public schools in town have huge amounts of heimishe money to toy with and WE suffer with the tuition crise.
Second, the library as is, is big and roomy loaded with computers and books and once again service many people who pay little if any taxes. You know cause you are there. The frum people who use it are happy with the services provided AS IS.
The employes are happy as is.
Finally, I am shocked that you can talk about other yidden the way you did. It is our choice as taxpayers to vote the way we want to!!
I think that it’s you my friend who will have to live with the consequences. And as an orthodox Jew I say shame on you.
to #13…just dont be worried about lesson from tanis ,we will be doing the worring for ourselves and you for yourself…what is this, if we feel one is not doing properly, and we say so, right away you go with ,sinas chinom, loshon horah, moitze shem rah…that he goes in goyishe paper with this preface “as an orthodox jew ..un hackt oif ehrleche yisdden by zai, no matter how right he is kumt ehm gitte klep…and l’mayse he can be “orthodox jew..” biz ibermorgen..with this prat he is whatever negetive lable the posters label him..and what you say “where he sent his letter may be not correct ” you say “maybe” we say thats an understatement and that shoews plenty
This from someone who calls himself ayin tov?
Yisroel Moshe
#18:
No, your attacking Yidden who engage in Torah is not the proper definition of frumkeit.
Illini07,
Why are focusing on the trivial part of #1’s comment and disregarding the main thrust of what he said?
His comment is totally appropriate and your judgment of #1 is totally off base. Anyone who considers himself frum wouldn’t have such reckless disregard of their slander of the Jewish community which provides ammunition for our enemies.
Additionally, my daughter recently went there and saw that 3 people were doing the job of 1 person and were just milling about ignoring the patrons. There is a lot of fat in that budget and the community shouldn’t be taxed to pay for it.
Why do we forget?
Chulul Hashem B’rabim is unforgivable, even on Yom Kippur.
Right or Wrong submitting such an article is a Chilul Hashem.
instead of fighting about this why dont we try to free gilad shalit bzchus ahavas yisroel
The fact that the letter writer felt more at home in a Goyische newspaper than in the many Yiddische papers supports my point that, although he may act frum, he thinks like a Goy and is more comfortable discussing issues with Goyim.
Unfortunately, in this Golus that we live in, there are many who have been similarly seduced by the secular culture that they are constantly exposed to.
#24: As accustomed, you completely miss the point (and your misinterpretations are its results.)
to #21 well said ..to #24..yes, yes mr illini07 you are still the same…that was the taine of all machrivay hadass thruout the genrations, maskilim , modern orth…better a little bit jewish than no jewish, accomodation etc etc…
Number 24, as usual you insist on making everything into a “hate crime.”
The main thrust of #1’s comment was that the forum was wrong. A Frum Yid airing his griavances on other Frum Yidden in a Goyisha forum is just plain wrong.
Stop making this into more than it is.
to #26, #21 and like minded, lets just review illini07 shita l’gabay ehrliche yidden in following link post #4 and numerous other articles http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/17171/Crown+Heights+Man:+I+Was+Beaten+By+Hasidic+Jews.html#comments
to #30..are you suggesting you are in the caliber of those gedolim? and those gedolim.. (eyes not rolling)see ohr hachaim hakodosh bamidbar 21 posuk 17 on the words “bimcohkaik b’mishanosoim..” (in the mikrous gedolos hampoar its daf 411)
to #33 RE #24 you didnt get the point and wont bother to explain…. RE #31 you tried to weasel out over there, read all your posts there and read other posters who have also same opinion of you…plus other articles that have your posts. too late to retract as stated there, “vchol masaycho b’sefer nictovim…” and stop crying about mud slinging, me never cried about mudslinging at me …point is are we right or not
#24 said
#21:
“Because it is not so trivial. It is circular reasoning which is dangerous. By saying that anyone who would do this or that can’t really be “frum,” one is able to conveniently ignore the fact that we have problems in our community. Furthermore, if such is the case, then are there really any “frum” Jews whatsoever? Have you NEVER engaged in Lashon HaRah? Do we not all have our own personal issues to work on? If he’s shomer shabbos, kashrut, etc… (the “hallmarks” if you will), but makes a mistake such as this letter …”
This sounds like whoever is free from sin should cast the first stone. That’s not part of our religion. This person is a moser and a rodef and should be castigated severely for what he did. The Chofetz Chaim said mefarsemim hachanofim, we publicize the obviously evil and cast aspersion at them.
“The world would have precious few frum Jews if you would advocate what I am against… If not definitionally, then by the effects of people who are pushed away from Judaism by such labeling. It happens, don’t fool yourself into thinking otherwise.”
The statement that the person is not frum obviously meant he acted in a manner totally unbefitting and contrary to Torah and love for fellow Jew guidelines. In that sense, it was an outrage for him to define the act as one done in the role of a frum Jew.
In a case like this, it is not the time to worry about the feelings of such a person at the expense of the community at large.
to #35.. yasher koach for saying it for us..lets repeat these anti…when it comes to anti- ehrliche yidden they go at lenth to melamed zechus, but when ehrliche yid does something no matter how minor, they are first to condemm. will not bother to link..neber ending…klall is “oizvey torah yehallelu rasha, vshomrei toireh yisgeru bom…”
to #33 para. 2…didnt you say on other article “will not bother..” ?
Well, I can’t say I read all the postings here, as I am typically averse to lashon hara, rechilus (WHICH MANY OF THESE POSTS ARE – DESIGNED AS THEY ARE TO INCITE PEOPLE AGAINST HIM) I wanted to make a point.
People say he shouldn’t have sent his letter to the newspaper, likening it to bringing one’s court case to a secular court instead of bais Din.
Did anyone mention that he might have helped LESSEN anti-semitism by making some people out there think that maybe all the jews aren’t getting together to hurt the gentiles? That maybe they will start to separate us a bit and say, “There are some bad apples but not all Jews are money-hungry landlords,” or something like that?
I wonder why the people behind The Yeshiva World.com don’t stop some of these postings which clearly violate halacha. Last time I checked, writing the paper didn’t make someone an apikores and therefore not “amcha.”
Reading the comments left by others, I notice that the spelling, grammar, and vocabulary of almost all of the negative posts are appalling! Certainly worse than those who seem to agree on the value of a library to the frum community.
Don’t you all realize that in order to communicate on an intelligent level with the world at large your message must be properly formulated? Bad spelling, incorrect grammar, and 3rd grade diction mixed with Yiddish make you look like an ignoramus.
Try reading 2 books a week, Jewish or otherwise! Improve your language skills. As a child I read around 600 books a year. Now, I can’t afford to buy the Jewish books I would like to read. With a library, it’s practically free. Think about how much each book you borrow would cost if you bought it and compare that to the tax burden for supporting a library. Then decide whether or not it’s worth it!
A few points: The estimated increase had the library’s budget passed was estimated at $10, yes, $10 a YEAR per household. don’t lump the library in with the school taxes, which, granted, are really high. The library wasn’t asking for much, but their costs for utilities, etc. went up also. And so for $10, all the patrons lose summer Sunday hours, so the frum people who work Monday-Friday and can’t go on Shabbos would find it difficult to visit. Many of those who voted no as they were instructed to do, I believe, didn’t use their G-d given gifts of independent thought, which only humans possess, and instead made a poor choice by following the herd, so that all the library patrons are affected, not least the frum patrons.
In addition, if a Jewish paper would publish such a letter, making it possible to reach the frum community, it would not have been necessary to utilize the general newspaper.
The point of the letter was to reach the frum community and say, sometimes you should vote your conscience, not always do as you’re told. It may be that following the herd can result in unfortunate choices.
Finally, take a visit to the library in Spring Valley. It’s full of frum people. They have an extensive collection of “kasher” books, such as thoughts of Rav Eliashev, etc. If someone wants to corrupt themselves there are better places than the library to go to. They must be doing something right. They deserve our full support.
to #44 yerei…and whats the heter of going to library? also no matter how many frum books are there oh yes, so many frum yidden use it,yes yes so many talk loshon horah, me not better and lots of other..wont be meoror c’v, so does that make it mutter? and who will be mashgiach on innocent souls that shouldn’t come into their hands books on kfirah, novels that shouldnt be read by FRUM kinder or yidden…we can go on with other michshoilim… now only reyous not “boich svares” if you have heter. you say jewish paper didnt want to print, ok, so how does that make it mutter to go be mechallel hashem…(by the way that was some of teritzim moisrim had and did what thy did thruout the generations..
to #42v reb shoulem, english is the official language of this great country, our last stop in goles, which we use when we engage one our fellow countrymen, etc,but you are on a site for ehrliche BNEI TORAH so what happpend to “lo shini leshonom”?
To #45 jent1150: Many years ago in Europe Jews were confined to ghettos. They couldn’t mix with goyim, couldn’t attend their schools or work alongside them, or study for professions. Most were naturally poor.
It seems to me maybe if it could be done you would turn back the clock to the days before Jews were exposed to things like libraries. But most Yidden have to have parnossa and can’t spend all the day learning. Even in Satmar most Yidden are expected to work, putting so many in contact with the outside world. There is temptation all over, not just at the library. The best we can do is to provide the kinderlach with a solid Jewish education and guidance from their parents. Then working beside goyim and going to the library shouldn’t corrupt them.
To #38 Observant Jew: You’re right on, very perceptive. When a Jew respects goyim and behaves well it is a big kiddush Hashem. My Rov used to tell stories of Yidden being saved by goyim and even by Nazis, yemach shmom, because those goyim and Nazis remembered how well they and/or their parents behaved and they felt a hakores hatov. I think perceptions of Jews by goyim are affected more by how they behave in public than how they behave inside the yeshivos and kollelim which they can’t observe anyway.
In the specific case of the library, the staff was very grateful when a religious Jew goes out of his way to help them out, rather than by the spectacle of hordes of frum Jews who descend on the library to vote to reject a budget with a tiny increase estimated to be $9.32 a YEAR, because they were told by ads to vote no and probably never gave it a thought. After all, the ads appeared in a JEWISH paper. That’s all they needed to know.
to #47 yeri ..your teretz dont hold water…the chashashim still there has nothing to do with gehtto…(by the way this “ghetto” remark shtumt nit mit ehrliche benai toireh talk…remeber we asked to bring reyoh from halacha, shulchen urech not boich svares…and hakt nit kain chinik with this “solid jewish education ” the gemmorah sais many time times over “shani minous d’eose lamshicay bastrei” and you come with YOUR “solid jewish education…how come the gemmorah didnt come with your bright idea of “solid jewish education” oh yes, forgot, they were living in the gehttoh. and can you tell us exactly what and how do we go about it to give this” SOLID JEWISH EDUCATION” so we can know when those yiddishe neshomos are plenty fortified againt the shmutz, decadance kefirah they will come accross in those shmutz books…now let us tell you what tzaddikim said abot reading material frmm apikorsim, shmutz ..no matter what they wrote but thats too long subject
To #49 jent1150: It sounds like you object to the concept of a solid Jewish education? My whole point was that for almost everyone in modern times, it’s impossible to keep out all influences alien to Yiddishkeit, since we work with goyim, deal with them, see them in the street, etc. and the best we can do is to try to fortify ourselves to be able to withstand alien influences. Does that thought bother you?
By the way, in an earlier message you asked what’s the heter of going to the library. As far as I’m aware that doesn’t require a heter unless you introduce new chumras by yourself. And I see you use the Internet. I certainly assume you use it properly, but the Internet is much worse than the library because much worse things can be found there that are NOT found in the library, such as mamish child pornography since I read all the time of people being arrested for downloading these images to their computers from the Internet. That’s just one example of the trash to be found there, chas v’sholom.
Anything has the capacity to be misused, even the Gemora by certain people, but used properly, the library is a fantastic resource for someone who is in school or who wants to learn job skills to get ahead, or is interested in math, science, current events, business and so on. As I said earlier, not many people have the ability to just sit and learn, they have families to support and many have to make parnosa in all kinds of jobs. Better they improve their skills and work than depend on welfare.
Have a nice day.
to #50 yerei.. you say “you object to solid jewish ed..” would be a goon idea you should bruss up on your reding comprehansion and re-read post #