Manchester, usually slow and behind, has become the first Jewish town to follow America and Israel and enact the cost of a £350,000 eruv. The Manchester Community Eruv has a perimeter of more than 13 miles and covers parts of Prestwich, Crumpsall and Higher Broughton.
Organizers told the BBC the Manchester eruv is “the largest in the country.”
“It is going to make a major difference to the life of very many people including people wheeling children,” said Rabbi Yahuda Brodie, chief executive of the Manchester Beth Din. “Mothers with young children for example find it very difficult to get out of the home on Sabbath days and attend synagogue.”
The Manchester eruv took 10 years to plan and construct and is the UK’s most technically complex enclosure, according to the London Jewish Chronicle.
Eruv committee chair Shimmy Lopian told The JC the eruv will be a life-changer “making Shabbat more lively for families able to be more involved in shuls and go to the park, while disabled people can go out in wheelchairs”.
According to the Eruv website, the cost of maintaining the Eruv is estimated at £30,000 a year. This is needed to cover the costs of inspection, local authority licensing, repairs and general maintenance.
Eruv experts from Jerusalem spent 10 days inspecting the enclosure before declaring it ready for use on Friday, the UK newspaper reported. Shabbos Parshas BeShalach was chosen to start the eruv as a symbolic connection to this week’s Parsha.
But not all was honey for the relatively small Orthodox Jewish community in Manchester.
Although haGaon Reb. Menachem Mendel Schneibalg, Av Beis Din of Machzikei Hadas, was one of the leading rabbanim supporting the eruv, the Satmar community Yetev Lev (Zalis), posted messages on the bulletin board at Satmar Beis Midrash that one cannot carry this Shabbos and one must not rely on the new eruv at all.
“We order all members of the community, not to rely on the eruv installed here, including women and children, even during hard times, and not to carry,” one ad, signed by community rabbi Rabbi Mordechai Meller, read.
Satmar, combating the Eiruv, reportedly, spread false statements on behalf of Rav Chaim Halprin that Hagaon Rabbi Mendel Schneibalg is opposed to the eruv.
via Bhadrei Haredim
But a video published online by the Eiruv founders, showed one of the rabbis reading a letter to Rav Schneibalg, confirming that it was done with his consent and directing.
(Jacob Kornbluh – YWN)
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30 Responses
WHATS THE MEANING OF “ZALIS” ? WHY CANT YOU SAY REB ZALMENS??
Not much of this makes sense, besides for the many inaccuracies and grammar mistakes.
1) Why would you label a town, slow and behind. I never saw an article about Flatbush labeling it selfish and smile-free.
Additionally, we don’t like labeling people. We just had that in the Post, and we didn’t like it.
2) has become the first Jewish town to follow America and Israel and enact the cost of £350,000 Eruv.
This simply makes no sense.
3) The Eruv experts have come from Israel a few times to assist with the construction. Not just at the last second to check.
4) You also failed to mention that one of the Rabbanim involved with the construction of this Eruv, was also involved in the Yerushalayim Eruv. He said that this Eruv is actually better than that one.
Hence it should be said that those who use the Yerushalayim Eriv can definitely use this one.
5) The people who don’t hold of this Eruv, are almost certtainly people who rely on the Pesakim of the Beis Din.
Many foods that people eat have a Beis Din Hechsher. Even more importantly, virtually all Gittin in Manchester are done in the Beis Din. Hence these people will rely on the Beis Din for Mazeirim but not for some Chumros (remember its not A=a Reshus Harabim D’oraysa and has been made using as many Chumros as possible)
6) About the people above, the Gemara in Eiruvin (no kidding) 6B says that those who love heaping nonsense Chumros on themselves are ‘walking in darkness’ (based on Possuk in Mishlei)
7) For a person to talk Lashon Hara, it’s a billion times worse (even assuming that the Eruv is possul). How can people write against an Eruv but not against Lashon Harah. Its simply ridiculous.
8) There’s way more to say about this but I will end here.
Here we go again…
Why “יש לעשות כל פעולה שלא יצא הערוב אל הפועל”, and why “וכל המטלטל בעירובא דא יש להרחיקו מכל דבר שבקדושה”, why????
Why not just say that your Talmidim should not, and whoever comes from a different stream let them do as their Rav says! and it would’ve been better to throw in to stay away from Machlokes and respect the other opinion – but I guess that’s too much to ask for.
I don’t understand the very first sentence. What does it mean that in the US and Israel they *enact the cost of £350,000 eruv”?
#1, I think you will find that #3 answers your question.
someone is stealing from someone here, I have no idea how an eiruv can cost more than a half million dollars. it doesn’t make sense.
In the UK things take time and are done slowly not like in the states first do and the fix or don’t bother at all to fix
Totally wrong, mis-informed, and biased article.
The Rov, Rav Schnebalg does NOT support the Eiruv. In fact there is a Notice hanging in the main Machzikei Haddass Shul (I can send you a picture of it), that people should NOt use the Eiruv at the moment.
He did take a back seat approach until now, didnt go agaist it, bud also did not support it (hence the video)but after seeing most of the town are against it.As several major Rabbonim came out against it (especially the Litvisha), and a streong majority of his Kehilla does not want it or support it, he joined them and forbid it too.
Those against the Eiruv include letters (I can send copies of all these letters) from the most respected Rosh Hakollel in town Harav R’ Volftche Kaufman, R’ Avrohom Silbiger Rov of Chodosh, R’ Mordche Mehler Satmar Dayan, Rav Padwa fom London, and R’ Sholom Friedman from London.
Also speeches from the Satmar Rov of the “aroinim” forbid the Eiruv, and R’ Osher Westheim also gave a speech not to use the Eiruv.
The One and only Rov with all due respect, who has now come out now saying he supports the Eiruv, is in fact only Dayan Berger, thats it.
These are the true facts, do your homework properly next time, and as always you cannot rely on Non-Jewish or Secular Press, as they are completely out of touch to what actually is going on in the Frum world.
Used the Manchester Eruv.
Big Yeshakuach to Rav Avigdor, Reb M K, the Manchester Beis Din and all who made it happen!
sgotesman: The initial construction costs of the Boston eruv was $70,000, in 1992 dollars. (source: http://www.bostoneruv.org) It would obviously be more today, though I have no idea how much more. I also have no idea whether the Manchester construction was more or less difficult than Boston.
Sam07 has his facts completely wrong. As said before, (yes we all have those letters) almost all the rabbonim have said that the Eruv is kosher. Rav Vovshi said the Eruv is fine but asked his kollel not to rely on it. Which is the consensus of a lot of rabbanim.
Any Rav who doesn’t live in Manchester and hasn’t come to see the Eruv or heard from both sides is automatically discredited. (as you would with any professional)
Additionally anyone relying on Beis Din for Gittin and meat etc, should also take this Pesak. If they want to be machmir then that is fine.
As with all these things, everyone should ask their own Rav and its kind of irrelevant what anyone else holds.
As mentioned before, see Gemara Eruvin 6b for those that are Krumer Machmirim.
(have you ever gone to a rav with a maareh and then said that you are too maikel so I’m going to be another Rav that is more machmir? I doubt it but here where its not even a Derabanan, people have to hock)
In just about every city you have people who won’t use the Eruv for whatever reason. It doesn’t have to be Boro Park, Flatbush, East Side, WestSide, Chicago, Detroit, St Louis, Cleveland, Denver, LA, etc.
H’rav Yosef Binyomen Vosner shlita is the Rav of the Satmar Arony Khila in London, Not the Zali khila
#8: “and a streong majority of his Kehilla does not want it or support it, he joined them and forbid it too”
You mean he changed his mind because his baalebatim wanted him too? I think you might want to rethink that.
Satmar is against anything that is progressive. They don’t allow the use of ball point pens and carbon paper since they did not have that in Hungary when Satmar was there so it is forbidden under the catgory of anything new is assur.
HaShem should forgive them for their stupidity.
Sam07
In your ignorance and terrible English let’s tell you the facts from most rabbonim in town. No one has said the eruv isn’t kosher, as a rav of any shul they can tell their kehilla whether they should carry or not and not send out a blanket statement to cover every person in Manchester. Don’t use the eruv yourself in Manchester and therfore is eretz yisroel either if your such a machmir. So keep your misguided opinions to yourself.
Actually, #8, it seems the ones who are completely out of touch with what is going on in the frum world is Satmar. (We’ll say both Aroinis and Zalis, so there’s no room to complain.)
Actually london have an eiruv aswell (although most people don’t keep it).
Dayan Westheim av beis din of Manchester said in a drosho that those who want to carry in it then there is what to rely on that its kosher but those who want to be machmir there is what to be machmir on…
#6 “someone is stealing from someone here, I have no idea how an eiruv can cost more than a half million dollars. it doesn’t make sense”
To ask why it was so expensive is understandable. To say it doesn’t make sense is ignorance.
For example, just one open stretch that needed closing off was along the metro system tracks. This required almost a mile to be fenced off between 2 stations. The approved security fencing for this was £85,000 (which is around $140,000). This gives you a small idea of the cost such a project can encounter.
If you think you can do it cheaper, we’ll ask you for a quote next time
No. 18 please check before you post. Dayan Westheim is not av beis din of Manchester
To the mods
Can you have someone actually talk to some of the big Rabbonim in Manchester so we can get the story straight? As it stands we have no clue if this Eruv is or isn’t good and the comments aren’t helping.
Ignoring all the many many mistakes and misconceptions included in this article…
Most Manchester Rabbonim agree with the eruv IN PRINCIPLE. Satmar do not, (even though Rabbi Mehler and Rabbi Grossberger are brothers in law – just saying) and many Rabonim won’t encourage its use. However they have all stressed, that one may not look down on anyone who uses the eruv.
The first Shabbos, there were problems with it, and that is why many didn’t allow the eruv to be used. But those are being corrected this week and you should happily find many more rabbonim allowing its use lechatchila this Shabbos parshas Yisro.
Furthermore, I am sure that letter from London printed above is a fake, as the individual concerned wouldn’t put his opinions in public at this time.
It’s a tremendous shame that many rabbonim in Manchester have been ‘machmir’ out of simple lack of knowledge. Very few rabbonim know eruvin well, and it is clear that the rabbonim who have told people not to use the eruv have not done their homework.
When the mumchim were in Manchester, all rabbonim were invited to share their concerns with them; of course none of them did so, because they knew that they would have nothing to argue.
All the claims that those who are opposed to ‘bnei torah’ using the eruv are predictable and have long been disproved. It is apparent that none of the anti-eruv rabbonim in Manchester are even aware of the gedolim who would be machmir to carry in all kosher eruvin. Our forefathers (including gedolei yisroel) carried in eruvin that were nowhere near as mehudar as the Manchester eruv, yet today’s ‘bnei torah’ think they are above them.
It is abundantly clear that Manchester does not fit any version of R. Moshe Feinstein zt”l’s criteria for a reshus harabbim, and the overwhelming majority of other poskim would have no problem with the Manchester eruv either. Halevai that everything else we did benefitted from the same level of halachic certainty.
Dayan Westheim’s shiur, with all due respect, made no sense whatsoever. He quoted the Elya Rabba (brought by the Biur Halacha) who rules that where there is an additional tzad le’hetter, even a baal nefesh can use an eruv, but claimed that because the Manchester eruv includes roads that serve the broader populace of the city, that a baal nefesh should not use it. This is simply a mistake, and one that has already been dealt with by the Maharsham (3:188). Given that the Manchester eruv is an omed merubah eruv, his error is all the more fundamental – there is simply no halachic reason not to use this eruv.
The anti-eruv letter from Satmar is even worse – it says that, even besides for any halachic problems, an eruv is a michshol – this is apikorsus pure and simple. An eruv is a mitzvah miderabannan; afrah lepumeih of anyone who calls a mitzvah a michshol.
I have heard that rabbanim in Manchester are citing the Mishkenos Yaakov’s objections to city eruvin – this shows just how misguided they are. The minhag was never like the Mishkenos Yaakov – his own city had an eruv that he would not allow, and besides for which his entire argument regarding shishim ribo has been superseded.
He claimed that we should take newly published rishonim into account and that this would create a majority of rishonim who did not hold of shishim ribo (the Beis Ephraim, on the other hand, was not interested in these newly discovered rishonim). As many poskim have demonstrated (Toldos Shmuel, 3:81:7, 3:86:8; Bais Av, 2:5:2; Divrei Yatziv 2:173:1, and Even Yisroel, 8:3), even if we do follow the Mishkenos Yaakov’s line of reasoning, an up-to-date tally of Rishonim gives us a clear majority in favour of shishim ribo.
I welcome any well-reasoned arguments from the eruv-opponents, but I will not hold my breath. If they had anything of substance to say, they would have done so already.
GG yekke – most shomrei shabbos in NW London use the eruv there, and the number is growing from week to week. In fifteen years time the opposition to the eruv will barely be remembered. See also the Tzitz Eliezer’s teshuva in support of the NW London eruv (19:17).
Any one who wants to go with Dayan westheim’s opinion that a baal nefesh shouldn’t use the eruv is welcome according to the Dayan….. But he also said be a baal nefesh with regards business affairs and loshon horah etc. I can’t see satmar being baal nefesh on those issues just the eruv. 😊😊😊😊😊
#23 has pretty much covered all the ares of issue.
I’m not an expert as far as Hilchos Eruvin is concerned. What we do know is that most of the Rabbanim actually know that they don’t know enough and have taken the easy option of saying that its ok but people should be machmir. As we know, that is almost never a Pesak but a cop out.
As mentioned above, this eruv is far better than the Yerushalayim Eruv. Additionally, anyone relying on the Beis Din for gittin (eishes Ish and Mamzeirim) which the vast majority of people do, they can definitely rely on this.
If individuals decide not to use it, or Rabbanim ask that people should be machmir, that is ok. But to say that its not Kosher, is simply misinformation.
The torah these guys believe in differs from what we will read about in Parsha Yisro this comming Shabbat haboo oleinu l’tova
I still don’t understand the very first sentence. What does it mean that in the US and Israel they *enact the cost of £350,000 eruv”?
@No.11
You say I have the facts “completely wrong” but in fact you are not proving me wrong at all. Its as you say I stated “facts”, the fact is all those Rabbonim I mentioned have come out saying NOT to use the Eiruv, while only one Dayan Berger gives his blessing.
@No.14
That was indeed the case, Rav Schnebalg had his reasons for keeping quiet, but after seeing a big majority of his Kehiila does not want it, he also came out with a letter saying not to use it. So did R’ Osher Westheim also write a letter besides his speech NOT to use it.
@No.16
(Sorry about my English yesterday, I wrote the above comment in a rush, and submitted it hastily without checking it)
Its not my opinion, and I don’t live in Manchester, and I wouldn’t give my opinion, as I’m not a Rov or a Poisek, and niether did I ever say I oppose the Eiruv. I just stated facts as to my knowledge and connections, and I saw the letters Black on White, and heard a lot of details from many people there.
There has actually been Shalos raised too, for example it was pointed out that the string they used shakes too much in the wind, and is therefore problematic halachicaly. They agreed, and said they will change it, but it will take 6 months.
I do live in Manchester. Firstly reb osher told everyone the letters need to be taken down from every shul as he was talking to his kehillah only and not as a voice for Manchester.
Not a single rav who was consulted months ago made any disagreement with the plans of the eruv when it was presented only now as they don’t want to be seen as saying use it do they hide behind all the chumras that can be found in the wood work. They are in the fence because they don’t want to commit so say the eruv is fine but don’t use it shows a weak rav who won’t commit.
you know from where his father is coming and his mother as well so you understand why he hates an eruv as it says in eiruvin