New York City’s incoming comptroller, Brad Lander, said that he would use all of his power and resources to force yeshivas into teaching secular curriculum.
“The state law is very clear that all schools, including private and parochial schools, have an obligation to deliver substantially comparable and competent secular education, especially where the city is contracting with those schools for transportation and books,” Lander, who is a Jew, told the JTA.
“It is a responsibility of the city as a whole and the comptroller in particular to be paying attention and audit and make sure those obligations are being met,” he added.
The issue of teaching secular subjects in yeshivas has been a matter of heated debate in recent years. On one side are a group of people who say that yeshivas have the obligation to teach secular subjects, while on the other side, many say that the law infringes on the religious freedoms of yeshivas to determine what subjects are appropriate to teach their students.
As comptroller, Lander will have the power to audit yeshivas and determine whether they are meeting state requirements for secular subjects, though he noted that he does not have the power to force them to change their curricula.
“This is critical,” Lander said, speaking to the New York Jewish Agenda, a liberal group he co-founded. “Making sure that all our schools, including our yeshivas, provide the education that our kids need and deserve is part of our job together and one that I’m going to be spending time on.”
Lander also noted that the district he served for a decade as a city councilmember prior to being elected comptroller, has a large number of non-frum, liberal Jews as well as some frum ones.
“My district has the Jews on probably the furthest left of the spectrum and the furthest right of the spectrum in New York City,” he said. “I love my [Jewish] practice. That said, I have been enriched as an elected official and as a Jew by my engagement with our frum cousins.”
Not a word from Comptroller-elect Lander about the abysmal state of NYC's public schools, where (outside of Park Slope) children struggle for an education and fear for their lives on a daily basis. But, by all means, target yeshivas.https://t.co/tjLm65BkdT via @jtanews
— Kalman Yeger (@KalmanYeger) December 19, 2021
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40 Responses
Yeshivos SHOULD teach secular studies, but don’t they already? As far as I am aware the students coming out of eighth grades of yeshivos far exceed in knowledge those coming out of most public schools. However, I can’t say the same for yeshivah high schools. Ask a high-schooler (from any school) where is the country “Africa,” and they will get confused. Never mind that it’s a continent (which I bet you didn’t know).
The short and long answer is “don’t take any funding from the Government”.
That’s what the Amish are doing.
“I love my [Jewish] practice.” There is nothing even remotely Jewish about his practice.
I don’t see how enforcing Yeshivos to teach a minimal amount of English is “anti-Yeshiva”. Does the author believe that places like Torah Vodaas, Chaim Berlin, and Darchei Torah are not Yeshivos?
For those like @motacha11 who are saying that 8th grade Yeshiva talmidim know more than public schoolers, that’s only in places where they do teach English. In the Yeshivos where there is no secular studies, 8th graders can barely order a pizza in English or point to Eretz Yisroel on a map of the world.
move to florida
He will fall like the מתיונים
He obviously doesn’t mean secular education because as comment #1 points out we already have that
What he is talking about is CRT, evolution, and gender fluidity
@yudel. You are correct. If we don’t take their money, they can’t tell us what to teach.
The short & long answer is:- Have mandated vaccinations & face mask being worn all day by all students & rebbes Zero exceptions, and government would be less antagonistic towards Yeshivas.
what’s he talking about. lots of yeshivas still give regents in high school
I graduated from Yeshiva Chasan Sofer with secular studies’ high school by taking the regents and receiving an academic degree. In order to gain a good job, the yeshivas should encourage vocational training.
The Rambam says that the those who sit and learn and rely on charity they rob people and ashame the Torah.
Naftuli Moster, sure got to Lander quickly.
This is an embarrassing hit piece and the anti-intellectualism being preached is shameful. Yeshivah students should not be deprived of subjects that will allow them to prosper professionally if they so desire.
“Does the author believe that places like Torah Vodaas, Chaim Berlin, and Darchei Torah are not Yeshivos?”
No, let’s be honest about which Yeshivos he is referring to. The overwhelming majority of litvish yeshivas, including the ones you mentioned, are providing at least a “substantially comparable and competent secular education.” He is talking about certain segments of the frum community where boys graduating 8th grade are reading and writing English on maybe a second grade level.
When ever this issue comes up cries of Anti-Semitism quickly follow. Officials are given tours of Yeshivos like Darchei when we all know that isn’t who the critics are actually referring too.
If you want to argue that Yeshivas have the right to not provide (or provide minimal) secular education, fine, but at least be honest about what is going on.
Zaydim byad oskay torasecha
This guy is a typical helenist (Yevanim) supposedly doing us a big favor. Klal Yisroel has always suffered from these elements ‘ VEHAKODOSH B”H MATZILEINI M’YODOM
@147
In any normal country, you would be locked as a danger to society, for threatening ridiculous violence.
What scores do the Makas Choishech get on the regents and what do frum schools get? Maybe he should be focusing his agenda on the shchorim.
Eliezer you are an am Haaretz all the Achronim and all gedolim know that Rambam too and many other Rambams that you don’t.
The rambam also says a person should make sure that their wife doesn’t leave the home more than twice a month. Is your wife tied to a leash
The Comptroller has no legal power on this issue.
It will be wise to offer a carrot approach – provide at least partial vouchers to private schools that teach general subjects at some minimal level. Make kids pass standard exams, publish results, and let parents decide what they want. Publishing results is important because possibly many parents do not understand how well their kids are taught these subjects.
I also do not like the word “secular” which means “having no religious basis”. This is coming from religions that separate the world into what Hashem can get involved and where He should not. We don’t believe in that. We believe that two people arguing about a tales is Torah.
I assume that most commenters on this site have a yeshiva education. From the quality of English in their comments, it is clear that some yeshivas are doing a bad job of teaching English.
And if Reb Eliezer’s comment about Rambam is correct, i.e., those who sit and learn while relying on charity for their support are robbing others, then lots of learners are robbing the rest of us.
Wishing him hatzlacha in his endeavors.
@Chaylev Halyah
I didn’t know that making people wear a mask and get vaccinated to stop the spread of infectious disease is violent.
We all know that some Yeshivas give a substantial education and others don’t. Unfortunately, the ones that do sometimes end up as a cover for the ones that don’t. Better education has been correlated with higher levels of wealth and health. It’s something we should all support.
Do NY yeshivos and BYs participate in any standard testing – either the same that pubic schools do or separate private school tests? Anyone knows test outcome for their school or just their child? If not, maybe you should ask for test results – or test your kid yourself. For example, IXL provides a test showing what grade level the kid is by area. There should be many others. Post results here!
It’s clearly intended to be a hit piece against the Chareidim. I said INTENDED! If this jerk cared about the citizens in his city he could have began his tenure as Comptroller caring about the citizens of the city and the values that have become so degraded. Take for example the e-bikes, scooters and bikes that zoom down the streets and sidewalks worries or concerns about people! I came in from out of state for the day to help my mother go shopping. She’s afraid to walk lest she get hit by one of these high-speed reckless riders. Why doesn’t this “so-called” caring newly elected newcomer attend to real issues facing all New Yorkers? Answer: He doesn’t care about New Yorkers – he cares about himself and his anti Yeshiva policies. His lieutenant might as well be Naftali Moster.
if yeshivot alreadsy do teach secular studies as they did half a century ago, why all the concern. anyone who returns yeshivot to the level of secular studies of Torah Vo’daath (ie maddah)or NI or CC of fifty years ago, tovoh a’lov beracha.
I recall years ago when boro parkers had a sticker on their car to vote for the mentch Lander. He is a leftist DemocRAT who would love to put same gender education into yeshivas as they do in public schools. Time to move to lakewood or Jackson. What will be done with the empty Yeshiva buildings as yeshivas in Brooklyn are losing 30 to 35 per cent of their students as residence move upstate or New Jersey.
Yasher Koach to him. I applaud his efforts and I firmly believe any boy growing up in whatever family should have the opportunity to learn secular studies as well. What many Jews fail to understand is that there needs to be a healthy balance. Just secular studies is bad too, but we cannot have everyone shteig in torah all day. It makes them unable to get further education and confines them to lower wage salaries in some small shuk somewhere.
Mr. Lander was my councilmember. He is so left, woke and progressive he makes DeBlasio look like a right-wing conservative. Mr. Lander do the job you were elected to do and leave us alone.
Our Yeshiva system gives the students the most important skill they need to succeed – thinking skills. Every beis midrash bocher is expected to be able to write chidushai Torah. The argument that chasidishe kids can’t speak English is a red herring since this has nothing with the schools. As long as parents speak to their children exclusively Yiddish and the culture frowns on speaking English nothing will change in this area no matter what the state does.
@ah yid “Every beis midrash bocher is expected to be able to write chidushai Torah.”
Really?
As long as parents speak to their children exclusively Yiddish and the culture frowns on speaking English nothing will change in this area no matter what the state does.
While many of those kids will manage to acquire language and other minimal secular skills on their own, some will not. Its abusive to these children to deny them the basic language and academic skills they will need to earn a parnassah and function in society . I don’t really care for Lander’s politics but he has NEVER advocated for teaching “CRT” or some of the other “woke” garbage attributed to him.
Hey is lander from landers college
The public schools are churning out communists, socialists, gender mutilated, depressed and suicidal masses who do not know basic math, history and English. But yet they are busy with us Chareidi Jews.
@Marxist:
kshmo ken hu – like the name, is he (or she)
the rambam was supported by his brother for decades until he died and he was force to become a physician
I read some literature on Rabbi Shach, zt’l, who said: ” the greatest nation of the 20th century was Germany. Germany excelled in mathematics, medicine, law, humanities, philosophy, etc. And look what they DID ?? (Holocaust) !!
Knowledge is fine but without a greater belief (education) in the sanctity of life and property–i.e. morals, ethics—such “education” leads to anarchy,cannibalism, cruelty ,and inhumanity–and that is what Olam is now on a fast track towards—I would ask all Jews to do More Talmud T_orah (MTT), More Davvening (MD) and More Chessed (MC)— doing so will be a blessing: to themselves, to their families, to their communities and to Olam.
A goy, all the best,
Gerry Mullen
AH YID AND PHILOSOPHER: YOU GOT IT RIGHT.
THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF SECULAR EDUCATION DOESN’T HOLD A CANDLE TO A GAMARAH KAPP. OUR MOSDOS TEACH CRITICAL THINKING, ETHICS, MENCHLICHKEIT, AND YES- EVEN SECULAR SUBJECTS FAR MORE ADVANCED THAN ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL CAN BOAST.
OUTCOME:
PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS WORK FOR LITVISH LAWYERS, WHO IN TURN WORK FOR CHASIDIC REAL ESTATE INVESTORS.
And the corrupt evil woke Brad Lander is fully aware of this fact. As comptroller he has no clue how to fix the deteriorating Public School System, so out of jealousy and animosity he assumes that attacking our yeshivos will solve his problems and make him look politically good.
It is very sad that so many commenters are just assuming, with ZERO basis, that the self-hater Lander is only concerned with the yeshivos in which “eighth graders can barely order a pizza.” How short is our memory? When the Board of Regents went after our afternoon studies, they were not just threatening the Yiddish-speaking schools. Their unrealistic mandates for secular studies threatened Chaim Berlin and Torah Vodaath just as it threatened Satmar and Belz.
It is very important for us to read between the lines and recognize immediately who are our friends and who are our enemies. Whatever your personal opinions about what schools should be teaching, we must all unite against government meddling in our yeshiva system. There should be no place for the government dictating to us how to run our yeshivos. Then you are free to send your kids to whichever yeshiva floats your boat.
For all of you who seem to think all these jerks (Nicolas Moster, Brat Lander and all his friends who are Jewish), are truly worried about Chassidish Yeshiva Boys not being educated enough to make a living/order a new face mask/fill out a vaccine form:
Ever heard of B&H photo (the owner is a Satmar Chosid from Boro Park)?
Know anyone in a nursing home (more than 50% of those in the US being owned by Orthodox Jews, many who never took a single high school class)?
Purchased anything on Amazon (even shipped and sold by amazon.com)? Based on unofficial stats, 4.5-5% of ALL Amazon sales come from A SINGLE ZIP CODE IN BROOKLYN, and it’s NOT Park Slope! I’m not even counting Lakewood or Flatbush etc. which would bring it to 8-9% And that was in 2019, it may be much more now.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/leticiamiranda/amazon-orthodox-jews
That’s not to even mention those who make a living within their community as small business owners or blue-collar workers (do you remember how much your plumber or electrician charges?).
The list goes on.
Maybe all that’s missing by ultra-Orthodox is gender fluidity and other nonsense?
And maybe he’s just a self-hating Jew.
Yeah, all his friends are Jewish -besides Linda Sarsour.