40 Responses

1. It is quite logical to ally with moderate Arabs. We got along with them in the past (well, at least they never threatened to conscript yeshiva students, or prevent yeshivos from fund raising, or threatened to throw rabbanim in prison from marrying people, or try to ban bris milah or kosher slaughter). It’s important that the Muslims realize they have a Jewish peace partner (since all they hear about are the zionists, and the zionists bargaining technique is to demand unconditional surrender without room for compromise).

2. what is this satmar person trying to do? make another war? does he want jews to suffer? we have goyim for that!!!i ashamed that he is a frum person, it is a shanda to the jewsish nation!!

3. Agree with the rabbi to some extent

4. Mosh3 – The Zionists started the war in the middle of the last century. Being dan le-kaf zechus, they might not have realized that a real estate dispute with the Palestinian Arabs would turn into a world wide conflict between Jews and Muslims. And in all fairness, the zionists believed that Jewish survival would only be possible in Eretz Yisrael. The war was unnecessary either for Jewish survival (which is based on Torah, not soldiering) nor even for the survival of the Jews in Eretz Yisrael (who in increasing ways are worse off under the zionists than under the Muslims or Christians who came before, going back 500 years).

   The world assumes that all Jews are war mongerers, and it is a tremendous kiddush ha-Shem to make clear that at least some Jews favor peace (and note that the left wing Isareli advocates of peace condition peace on the Arabs giving up Islam and becoming secular – and that is part of the reason the Muslims see the Arab-Israeli war as part of a larger war against Islam).

5. The Satmar Rebbe should take ads in the New York Times expounding his position on Israel so that the world at large is more aware of Orthodox Jewish opposition to the State of Israel and Zionism.

6. Satmars should really keep it real and leave Israel and stop reaping the benefits of living there.

7. Did he tell them everything that says in the Torah? Like that they will be our Avodim when Moshiach comes?

   Did he talk about his support of the Israeli Malchus in the time of Bayis Rishon, when we were told to be Machrum all its inhabitants, men, women and infants?

8. The rebbe said, “The Zionists do not speak on behalf of the nation of Israel and are not their representatives.” Well, neither does he speak on behalf of the nation of Israel, nor is he (thankfully) their representative.

   To #5, if he has that much money to waste on ads in the NY Times, better he should use it to improve the lot of his chasidim and bring them out of the poverty their mired in.

9. BoroPork #6: Satmar, Eidah, Toldos Ahron, Brisk, etc. do NOT take money for their Yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel from the Israeli government. They refuse money they are legally entitled to. And they do not vote.

10. And the Jewish anti-zionists lived in Eretz Yisroel before the zionists-come-latelys moved there after Uganda didn’t work out for the Zionists. If anyone should leave it is the Zionists. Maybe Uganada is still available for them.

11. #6 The Satmars can live in “Eretz Yisroel” since they don’t live there because of “the State of Israel”.

    #2 what is this satmar person trying to do? He doesn’t want jews to suffer! We have Jews for that!!! i ashamed of Bayit Hayehudi and Tzippi Livni, but he is a frum person, they are the shanda to the jewsish nation!!

12. BoroPark: If the Babylonians, or the Romans, or the Crusaders couldn’t kick us out of our homeland with Ha-Shem gave to us to do His mitsvos, why do you think the zionists will have more success in getting the Jews to give up Torah and MItsvos?

13. Dear BoroPork: (n0. 6):

    You said “Satmars should really keep it real and leave Israel”

    For your information, the hareidim were there way before the Zionists arrived during the “Second Aliya” around the year 1900.

    If they don’t like Hareidim, maybe they should leave and go back to Poland Russia where they came from.

14. In short, Satmar is not opposed to Eretz Yisrael. They’re opposed to the “State of Israel” being run and destroyed by Zionist chilonim.

    #10 Agree. The Zionists grabbed an already established country and are trying to impose their own secular anti-Jewish laws. We should send them off to Uganda where they’ll be able to do as they please and the best part will be they won’t have to deal with charedim! This might be the exact reason they wouldn’t want as they need some enemies after all.

15. Did he tell them that it’s ossur to take your brother to arka’os to contest your father’s yerusha? Did he tell them that the Torah says Yishmael is pereh odom? That the Arabs are the practical descendants to Hitler who wiped out chassidus? Probably not. He’s just like Neturei Karta. What a poor excuse for a rebbe. His father must be turning over in his grave.

16. takahmamash #8: They are very very far from being marred in poverty. In fact Satmar is one of the largest, if not largest, Orthodox Tzedakah organization and they fund the poor not only from within but also to those poor outside Satmar. Not to even mention all the chesed organizations they fund. (Bikur Cholim, etc.) They started Hatzala too.

17. what a chilul hashem that satmar goes along with arabs to hate on israel.

18. I have no problem with this clear valid opinion as part of the spectrum of Daas Torah.

    I do have a problem with making this such a focal point to the degree that it’s clearly dwarfing so many other important things. Many Satmar boys are first haters of Rav Steinman and then lovers of Yiddishkeit. In their mind not being careful in certain Halachos isn’t the end of the world, as long as you hate anyone who is Tomei enough to vote… (I’m speaking from first hand experience).

    Here is a good example: When he is meeting with people who most probably are Sonei Yisroel, albeit for a worthy cause, it would be appropriate to add that regardless of the difference in opinion the Jews in Israel are still our brothers, which we care for and wish only good upon etc. –

    But to them Kiddush Hashem is not by showing any kind of legitimacy to Jews of other opinion. The only Kiddush Hashem is to tell the Arabs “we’re with you”, aside from building Mosdos by abusing the benefits of the US government.

19. The Satmar Rebbe zt”l was vehemently anti-Zionist, but never, never sanctioned aligning with those enemies who would like nothing better than to wipe ALL Jews off the face of the earth.

    UAE officially does not allow any Jewish-owned business to operate in their ‘country’ and now they are looking to team up with Satmar because they have a common enemy?

20. Now we know exactly where Satmar stands on the issue.

21. Does this mean Satmar sides with the Arabs?

    WHY WASN’T THIS QUESTION ANSWERED? Any organization that diminishes the security of Jews in Israel, sides with the arabs. Be man enough to answer the question, partner with these Muslim billionaires and fund their program which will fund terrorism. Try to get the terrorists to then recognize who are Satmar residents in Israel to secure their safety.

22. “we do not even visit the Western Wall (Kotel) – the holiest place for the Jewish people – or the rest of Israel’s occupied land.”

    That’s funny. He was just there last year for a wedding. Interesting.

23. Huh. I thought Har HaBayis was the holiest site for Jews.

24. OH GOSH, before I even commented on this site, this discussion has been going on for years, if not centuries.

    FACT OR FICTION
    1. There are moderate Muslim leaders
    Are they believers in the Koran? FICTION
    2. Zionism sparked hatred among Arabs FICTION
    Learn about Islamic pogrom in the early centuries
    3. Charedim were the first JEWS in Israel
    depending if you are going back to Rabbi Akiva FACT
    4. There are groups that do NOT take ISRAELI $$$ FACT
    except they all use water, roads, medical clinics,
    food items, transportation and services from the
    country that are subsidized for them.
    5. RAMBAN believed that mitzvohs are most valuable
    when practiced in Eretz Yisroel — FACT
    6. The ZIONISTS do not speak for world JEWRY FACT
    and neither should the Rabbonim there speak
    for Jewish concerns outside of Israel.
    7. Orthodox Jewry is against ISRAEL FICTION

25. akuperma: anyone who for one moment believes that the Jews were treated well when living in Muslim countries or that the Muslims and Jews got along well is severely misinformed. Not counting the many pogroms against the Jews by Muslims after the rise of Zionism and the establishment of the State of Israel, there was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828. There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867. In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls and killed a dozen Jews. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.
    In what is present-day Israel, the 1834 Safed pogrom, and 1838 Druze attack on Safed were mass-murders, theft, and beatings.
    The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when an Italian monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city. A pogrom ensured.

    Going even further back, the 1517 Safed pogrom had mass-murder, theft, and beatings against Jews. In Morocco there was a pogrom in 1790 in Tetouan, started by sultan Yazid. The Jewish quarter was pillaged and many women raped.

    In 1033 about 6,000 Jews were killed in Fez, Morocco, by Muslim mobs. Mobs in Fez murdered thousands of Jews in 1276, and again, leaving only 11 alive, in 1465.

    I suggest you correct your earlier statement.

26. Satmar collaboration with Muslims endangers Jewish lives. Rav Mayer’s wife taught us to pray for the demise of sins; not for the demise of sinners. In spite of its flaws, Medinat Yisrael is a haven of Torah for tens of thousands. How will Hashem judge those who aid those who want to destroy our land and its people?

27. MDshweks: Your facts are dead wrong. Not even close to the truth. This isn’t a focus point. And it is a lie that they hate the Rov you mentioned; not even a shred of truth. And they keep every halacha better than you ever will.

    besalel: Every gentile, Arab, Christian, etc. are all anti-semitic Jew haters. But the Arabs were for a thousand years leading up to the advent of Zionism MUCH MUCH better to us Jews than the Christians and Europeans ever were.

28. If this is true, these Satmars should be given the same treatment as the Neturei Karta. The lives of millions of Jews depend on them losing this one.

29. There is a lot of truth to what the Rebbe said.
    May he take us against Moshiach speedly, and everyone will see how right he was!

30. besalel: Have you ever read what it was like living among the Christians? Note that many Jews fled Christian Europe, while few fled the Muslim lands. There have been several pogroms in Christian lands killing more Jews that were killed by Muslims from the 7th century until 1948. In fact, more Jews have died fighting the Arabs since 1948 than were killed by Muslims in the previous 1300 years.

31. chachom: i strongly disagree with your assertion that every gentile is an anti-Semite. An overwhelming majority are not. Also, i am not entirely sure how you measure which pogroms hurt more. Muslims always treated Jews like Dhimmis. (look it up). In Christian countries, over many extended periods of time, Jews were afforded opportunities to becomes Rothchilds.

    There is a reason why Jews from Middle Eastern countries are far more politically right winged than we are despite the fact that Modern Religious Zionism is almost exclusively an Ashkenazi invention. (in other words they are right winged irrespective of religious beliefs). It is because they know what it is like to live under the Muslims and no exactly how “well” they got along with them.

32. I WANT TO VOMIT AFTER READING THIS ARTICLE!!!!!!!!! Its one thing to not support or not agree with a government (that’s exactly what a democracy is). To publicly bash a government that has helped you out tremendously is completely wrong!!! Yes, I understand that they hate chareidim, but if there is even a slight spark of hope for things to change, stories like this one “dump gallons of water on an already soaking wet wick”. The fact that he the Satmer “Rebbe” was freely able to go to EY was solely because of the government, military especially!!
    Just to let you know where I stand, I am 1,000,000,000% against the new draft laws and other sanctions (and I think Lipman and Lapid need to do teshuva fast! Otherwise burn in H&*L for a loooong time) However, if you completely disrespect a government (including partnering with their enemies), there is absolutely no reason that they should have any respect or care for you. How can people respect a rav in this case?? What should someone in Kiruv tell someone who he is trying to make frum? “The Rebbe of the biggest chassidic sect in the US hates the state of Israel and partnered with arabs to publicly dismay the Israeli government.” THIS BEHAVIOR IS PATHETIC, DESPICABLE, AND NEEDS TO CEASE INSTANTLY!!! THIS IS BEHAVIOR THAT SHOULD BE COMING FROM A SEVERELY DELUSIONAL PERSON, NOT THE SATMAR REBBE!!!!!!!! HASHEM YERACHEM!!!

33. “despite the fact that Modern Religious Zionism is almost exclusively an Ashkenazi” –

    Religious people loving ZION has been around for centuries, in the last 100 years there were many “Chovevai Zion” groups even one that the Netziv belonged to. Jews in Sephardic countries, particularly Iraq, Iran, Egypt were tremendous ‘Ohavei Tzion’ and presently a large majority of RZ in Israel are sefardim. Some vote Shas who are “Zionists” and belong to the World Zionist organization, others vote Likud, BY or Baruch Marzal party.

34. Please understand that this is NOT ALL Satmar.

    This is one faction only!!!

    Reb Zalmen Leib (Williamsburg) was harshly critical of the Neturei Karta idiots who went to Iran. He would never sit down with any Arab – especially to collude against or imperil our brothers in Eretz Yisroel.

    Every diatribe posted here is against Satmar as a whole, but this meeting took place with Reb Aron (Kiryas Joel!)

35. besalel 31: Count the dead. There are millions of dead Jews from the hands of European Christians bringing holocausts, Crusades, pograms, Inquisitions, Expulsions, tach vtat, blood libels, and heck they are the ones that actually destroyed the Beis Hamikdash and Yerushalayim. The Arab Muslims, as bad as they may have been, come NOWHERE CLOSE to the European Christians murderous history against us.

    P.S. And the Sephardic Jews have traditionally been much wealthier than the Ashkenazic Jews.

36. After reading all these comments – I don’t know what to think.

    There’s so much infighting in Judaism, without blaming each other, we should look to set aside our differences and try to work together.

    We shouldn’t call people Reshaim for having a philosophy different than ours and we shouldn’t put a whole camp of Judaism in Cheirem, just because we disagree with them (i.e. don’t put “Chareidim” in Cheirem and don’t put “Zionists” in Cheirem or anyone else)

37. BTW Reb Aron of Kiryat Yoel is married to an Israeli.

38. The article never says the Satmar Rebbe partnered with the Arabs in any way – business or otherwise. It just says he met with them to explain his view that he does not recognize the Zionist state as a Jewish state. That does not contradict his visiting E”Y.

    However, I don’t understand why Jews in any situation (including the video posted on YWN explaining the Chassidic lifestyle that was seemingly aim to Goyim) need to explain their point of view to Goyim. If they have a Hashkafah to impart – let them explain it in Jewish forums.

39. You all REALLY needed thechill out. I will bet my last penny that Satmar made 100% sure these Arabs got the message that despite the hashkofic difference, Satmar would do ANYTHING to assist a fellow yid. I’m sure they got to see the bikur cholim that Satmar does oh so well WITHOUT prejudice.

    Let’s also not forget that many THOUSANDS of Satmar chasidim live in Eretz Yisroel.

40. Shomer peve ulshono shomer mitzarot nafsho/ Kuperman I trust you will never visit israel and ask the treifa police to protect you as you wend your way to the Kotel which is now in our hands because of the” treifa” Tzahal whose live were lost in capturing it. And I also hope that you will not use the electricity that is supplied by the treifa Medinah. In the end you should sit in your dollad amot and be quiet. This is a Chilul Hashem of the first order and frankly I dont care what good satmar does the cow who gives good milk also kicks over the can.