42 Responses

1. i agree one hundred percent

2. I agree 1000% We must not sit silently and say
   “nebach, what can we do?” There is a lot we can do! 1) we can protest 2) we can daven 3) We can write our elected officials 4) We can make sure not to vote for officials with opposing views on moral issues 5) we can daven some more!

   This new law and the liberal attitude in America will be its downfall. We must strengthen ourselves in Torah, Avodah and Gemilas Chasodim. Moshiach is on his way. We must pray to merit going along withhim when he comes.

   The Brisker Rav Zatzal would always say “If something hurts, you scream in pain” If we are silent about this To’eva, it means it doesnt bother us!

3. Although this behavior has been around forever, the crucial difference in Sodom, according to CHAZA”L, was that the Sodomites performed official marriages openly and brazenly, “KosVim KeSuBa”–it was not a surreptitious activity–it was “GAYPride.”

   When a nation publicly declares the legitimacy of this perverted behavior, it is considered a rebellion against G-D’s plan for the continued existence of Mankind–“Lo ToHu BeRaAh, LeSheVes YeTzARah.”

   When a King sees that people are rebelling against Him, he takes action!

4. Mr. Topas, Thank you for you well timed and important message.

   May all pay heed.

5. Hellow mr. Topas

   Front raw seat / Yosheiv Rosh – by Rabbi Cohen’s shiur. You are 100% right and many of us share your view.

6. The scary part about this is the irrationality of it. If someone has those urges, fine, but don’t flaunt it. This group has been discriminated against in the past and now feel that they have the right to badmouth people who get married the NORMAL way (Ie Man and woman) because that serves due justice. They seem to think their way of life is normal and that everyone should do what they do. Do they not realize that if everyone did that it would mean the extinction of the entire human race?
   Just a thought

7. Reuel:

   Your excellent letter should underscore the importance of never voting for a rabid left winger such as Obama.

   California jurist are appointed by left wingers. — Who in turn pen decisions that legislate immorality from the bench (the lefties call these decisions “progressive”)

   G-d Help us if the USSC would have been in the hands of a leftist President.

   Make no mistake Rabbosai–The only reason to’eiva marriages are not federalized is because of great Justices such as; Alito, Scalia, Roberts, and Thomas that were appointed by Republican Presidents.

   We should continue to daven so that the morality of this country should not sink further into the sheol tachtis H-shem yishmor.

   For this reason, we were blessed the last eight years that we had a President such as George W Bush who understood the power of the USSC and appointed some of the best justices so that toaiva never becomes nationalized.

   On a side note: Watch out you chevra in NJ. You are next. The NJ supreme court appointed by the gov (that some of you voted for) is the most liberal in the union.

   This is why I never understood why some people do not take into consideration the whole picture when voting for gov or senate.

   I wish people would vote with seychel thinking of the entire picture.

8. This is the beginning of the end for the USofA History shows that when a society relaxed its moral codes as the USA is now doing they result was being wiped off the map. There is no other result.

   The US will go the way of the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Spain etc The common thread in every demise was To’eva

9. Oh the bitter galus that we live in!

   I think that this is an example of what emotional intelect can do (and go) when it is not being guided by the purity and sanctity of the Torah. In fact this is really nothing new, it just the evolution of what has been taken place the past 40-50 years. Once upon a time this was considered inappropriate behavior (as well as all levels of modesty) Yes ( the actions) were done in the times of Rome amd Greek, but society as a whole did not permit just open and public behavior. Then this movement came into exsistance. Shocking and repulsive as it use to be, they continuosly brought it into mainstream (public conversations, protests and display) where it got to the point where people are so desensitized that it’s tolerated and even accepted as normal now.

   What can we do about it?

   Saddly very little. In Israel we need to speak out such events and make it known that not everyone is agreement to this derogatory union. Here in America we have to set ourselves and good role models and make sure Taharas Mishpacha is kept to it’s fullest. Show how special marriage is and make sure shalom bias rules our lives.

   On a separate issue but very much connetcted to this issue we need to be better educated as well. With the break down of the family structure there are more and more yiddisha neshomos that are falling into this To’eva trap and are being misled into beliving that this the way that they are created and that there is nothing that can be done. This is false. 1st we have to pre-empt this by giving our boys good male role models that can help build thier self cofidence as well as members a jewish boy/male. We need to give our daughters the mothers that can nurture them and pass on the virtues of a bas yisroel. We have to look in our shuls and see who is going to sit with the boys who don’t have a father to show them the place in their siddur. Who will take in the girl that doesn’t have the loving family dynamics and give her a safe place? Instead of pushing these children away we need to find ways to include them into mainstream Klal Yisroel. 2nd we have to stop listening to thier false claims and call it what it is.

   I fear for America as well, but this is nothing new and is a world wide epidemic too.

10. B”H I have to echo Mr. Topas’ words. I remember vividly several years ago that I was on the telephone with one of my friends and we were briefly discussing the fact that men who engage in to’eva, using each other as “women” was against Torah. I was overheard by coworkers, who then proceeded to persecute me to the point that I had to resign from my job. I became an outcast in their eyes. I wasn’t too popular anyway, being Chasidic. It was fine, Baruch HaShem, because I knew why it happened and I was very thankful to HaShem that He created the situation of my telephone call to bring about that particular outcome. Baruch HaShem that there are those in Jerusalem who will protest publicly and openly against those who sin against HaShem and Torah.

11. I found it quite interesting that the news stories regarding the toeva marriages and the tremendous floods in the midwest were being reported one right after the other.

12. I agree with the opinions of all the previous commentors, and as an orthodox Jew, I obviously believe that To’eva marriages are wrong and immoral. However, whether we like it or not, the same things that have made this country so great are eventually going to lead to its downfall. The liberal movement will keep on “progressing” this country until there is not a shred of morality or descency left. And they are not necessarily wrong for trying. If 51% of this country believes that such marriages are proper, then perhaps it is, according to the way this country was created, moral and legal. That’s democracy – which actually means “rule of the mob.” That’s the separation of church and state. We get our freedom of religion but others are free to have their own, albeit misguided, views. If a majority of the country believes that marriage can be between 3 people or between people and animals, then that might be the law too. There is no end to where this can lead. And who are we to impose our religious or moral beliefs on others and obstruct their pursuit of happiness. That’s the slope this country is going down, and there is no way to stop it. Heck, the Supreme Court is busy giving rights to terrorists that are trying to kill us to be heard in civilian courts. So when we catch Bin Laden, he can show up to court in an expensive Italian suit and rave about the depravity of this country legalizing gay marriages and then get acquitted for insanity and get a position working for President Obama brokering peace talks with Iran. You can try to fight it, but the flaws of democracy and our society are glaring. G-d bless America, and to quote a bumper sticker, we evidently need a lot more “America bless G-d.”

13. YWNshould not discuss politics

14. #7. What is so interesting is that 8 years ago, the heimishe community was so fearful for Israel, because of the possibility that George Bush “might become President. Amazing that he turned out to be one of the, if not the most trusted friend Israel ever had.

15. We MUST always vote for the canidate that opposes this garbage. Keep in mind next years NYC race for mayor where 1 candidate is part of this group. It should be made clear that the orthodox community will not vote for her!!!

16. Dear straightshooter:

    As President Harry S. Truman used to say: “If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!”

17. The US is going. Been reading the financial news lately? I never thought of connecting that to this, but it is an interesting thing to think about. Except that Europe seems to be doing well and they are more liberal about these things.

18. leonard613(#7),
    While I agree that we are more likely to get good judges with a republican than with a democrat, it doesn’t always work that way. David Souter was appointed by the first Pres. Bush and John Paul Stevens was appointed by President Ford.

19. While we complain about to’eva marriages being sanctioned by the government, many of us keep on voting for democrats. Stop! Vote Republican or stop complaining.

20. There’s always one in every crowd: “YWNshould not discuss politics” sayeth straightshooter. Well straightshooter, you just shot yourself straight in the foot. This is not about politics. It’s about the moral obligation to take action and responsibility on an individual basis to combat the rapid, frightening decline of the society where we have found a safe haven. But that safety is only because of Hashem’s grace, which depends very much on our actions and what we try to do about the terrible conditions around us. Even if its only davening for people to change there ways, its something important, positive and NOT POLITICS.

    Thank you.

21. Pashuteh Yid,
    Thanks for pointing out that the sin of Sodom was their torture of the girl who saved a starving beggar (this was meant to discourage its citizens from feeding poor people). And the threat of Anshei Sodom to the malochim was, again, intended to humiliate them & discourage further visitors. Obviously the Christians who invented the term “sodomy” based on this incident were not aware of the meforshim.

22. We are guests in America. A guest cannot whine or we’ll be on the next train out of here.

23. This isn’t just politics. It’s how do we explain our position without being perceived as bigoted.

    I was in the library and saw a preschool children’s picture book (!) about how a boy got up the courage to tell a girl how he felt. Bad enough it’s preschool. But in a few years, there’ll be a book about a how aboy got up the courage to tell another boy how he felt.

24. flatbusher/14 – Don’t fall for these Sodomites and their media enables) propaganda. They constitute less than 1% of the population.

    And let us not fear the truth. It is not only “marriage” that we oppose for these miscreants. We oppose these abominable peoples entire behavior. They and their devious deeds should be driven into the ground.

25. You know, I always learned that the sin that was the final straw for HaShem, that brought the mabul, was ganaiva. Yes, we were punished for all the sins of immorality, but had there not be widespread stealing, HaShem would have shown rachmonus and given the people time to repent. I heard an excellent shiur by Rabbi Eli Mansour on this exact point.

    I’m not saying to’eva is okay, it’s clearly assur, but we all have our own sins to eradicate if we want to bring Moshiach and stop all the punishments that are being visited on us. It’s easier to point fingers at others than make changes in ourselves.

26. In California a state constitutional amendment defining marriage as only between one man and one woman has qualified for the November ballot.
    That should reverse the 4-3 decision from their supreme court.
    The biggest threat to most countries is getting an extremely weak national leader.
    The Talmudic expression is per my best recall “When the Master wants to punish the flock, He appoints a blind sheep to lead”.
    Let us pray that we do not get a “blind sheep” this year.

27. Perhaps comments to bulletins such as this one should undergo a little more moderating? After all, isn’t this ‘Yeshiva World’?

    This comment should really be posted directly to the moderators, but even YW members should be concerned for the language and the content on this site.

28. flatbusher 14
    Pashuteh Yid 17
    anon for this 23
    Tzadik in Peltz 24
    gamzultova 27

    Each one of you in a different way objected to the Mailbag letter by Mr. Topas. It is amazing that, when somebody writes and posts something pointing out an issue and urging people in a calm and sincere fashion, to try and do something positive, navel-gazing nudniks pop out of the woodwork to say “poo-poo”.

    Some guys come up with a lumdishe teretz why the writer is wrong. EG: It wasn’t really toeva by Sodom, so forget the whole thing. Brilliant. This is what your Torah study does for you? It leaves you with the special talent to find a chiluk why action shouldn’t be taken communally or individually and so you can keep stuffing your face with chulent and not worry about the world going to pieces around you.

    Pashute Yid is so Pashut, he complicates everything to the point that he understands nothing. The point of the letter was that the steady and rapid moral degenerecy of the country is dangerous for her welfare and, consequently for the welfare of the Jews. No, says PY, everything is just great. The fact that the largest state in the country has legally sanctioned one of the worst sins of the Torah and given it the same status as one of the great mitzvos of the Torah (marriage) PY says: “no problem”. I’m sorry, that’s just shtus. Anon is happy with this nitpicking nonsense as well.

    Tzadik in Peltz is cowering somewhere in a closet imagining that Topas is suggesting something as outrageous as davening for the country to change direction or to vote for politicians according to their stance. This is whining? This is going to get us kicked out of the country? Rather, says TIP, if the country keeps degenerating, we have a much better chance of everything staying just fine if we join him in the closet(sarcasm intended). Let me remind you that Germany between WWI and WWII also degenerated like this and it gave the nazis YM’S a perfect opening to come on in and “clean up”. And let me remind you also that Jews are very much identified with this moral degenerecy because they occupy many prominent positions in politics, the courts, the media and Hollywood that have presided over this cesspool hamisgaber.

    Gamzu: this IS about making a change in ourselves. We should change ourselves from people who pretend you can ignore what’s going on around you, keep voting for money for mosdos and foodstamps and Israel or whatever “Jewish” causes and escape the inevitable wrath of Hashem. Mark my words, He will “mun” us why we didn’t fight against these things using the political process and other peaceful means, including looking into how our own ruchnius is being bashmutzed with what’s going on around us. Of course, improving ourselves is always part of the answer. But saying we can just stick our heads in the sand is not.

29. What shocks me most about this whole article is the signature on the bottom. You are a lawyer and living in lakewood?? Well props to you my dear friend. Someone is finally showing the world that you dont have to be learning in kollel all day to be considered a talmid chacham.

30. TownShrier,

    It’s true that the Nazis associated “To’eivah” practiotioners with Jews, in the sense that those individuals who refused to change (mostly men) were persecuted and sent to concentration camps, where they were subjected to work that was intended to weaken/ kill and various types of cruel punishments and death. They were differentiated from other prisoners by the inverted pink triangle they wore. The Nazis killed them for the same reason they killed the Romany, retarded, mentally ill, and infertile,–because they would not perpetuate the Master Race. Obviously their hatred of the Jews was completely different though.

    Your words to Tzadik in Peltz seem to indicate that you are concerned the United States is headed this way as well. I pray that’s not the case. Obviously everyone should vote for the candidate he thinks is the best; if you choose this issue as your primary/ sole criteria in voting for a candidate, you are free to do so.

    Actually my comment about the primary sin of Sodom was meant to point out the ignorance of many Christians on this particular issue. Obviously the incident of Sodom is not our main source for labeling this behavior as a sin.

    By the way, throughout this post I place “to’eivah” in parantheses to indicate that my meaning is the same as the letter writer’s, as this is one of several behaviors (including cheating through weights and measures) that the Torah labels as “to’eivah”

31. Pashuteh Yid

    First, I want to thank you and praise you for not knocking my head off. I was pretty sarcastic and you replied like a mentsch. Kol hakavod.

    There’s still some issues:
    You wrote:

    “In addition, if your cause involves allowing your religious beliefs to infringe on the secular principle of personal freedoms, then don’t be surprised if certain religious non-Jews decide to forbid Jewish practice of religion on the grounds that it goes against their own religious beliefs that only Christianity is valid.”

    Now, neither Mr. Topas nor I have suggested anything of the kind. Mr. Topas spoke of the “nation’s moral heritage”. I am also saying that America’s moral fabric is critical to it’s status in Hashem’s eyes. No one needs to impose a particular religious belief to say these things. They are embodied in the founding documents of the country, in the writings and speeches of the founding fathers, particularly Washington and Lincoln, and in the strong “Judeo-Christian” tradition of the people (that is, until liberalism came along and started trashing it).

    Topas is also clear and I agree, that we are talking about using legitimate means, on a personal, communal or political level, to influence the debate. This does not mean at all imposing a Sanhedrin or Jewish Shotrim or insisting that the nation adopt laws from Vayikrah. It means dignified, legal efforts, in every sphere to try and change the situation, for the welfare of the Klal and Klal Yisroel.

    Therefore, the dire consequences you project are simply not the logical or likely reaction to such efforts. Having said that, the opposite is true: Gentiles are much more likely to resent the prominence of Jews (real or perceived) in the many areas of American life where they have promoted the toeva agenda. I am much more fearful of that reaction than one that might emerge from speaking out and working to encourage a return to healthier morals.

32. anon for this

    I think you missed the point about the nazis. What I was saying is that a climate of brazen immorality so demoralized the German people that, when the nazis showed up, the people were primed and eager to have someone come in and take charge to reverse the trend. (Paradoxically, history shows that many nazis themselves were incredible sickos in the area of “personal morality” (ie: big ba’alei toeiva) besides their evil murdering ways). I wasn’t talking about the nazis particular attitude toward the pink triangle people, but the fact that part of what brought them to power was the moral decay itself, including a lot of toeiva.

33. TownShrier,

    If you are looking for a “natural explanation” for what brought the Nazis to power, I think the main motivation was the difficult economic situation in Germany. Of course most of the world was suffering as a result of the Great Depression, but the situation in Germany was more difficult because of the sanctions imposed by the victors of World War I. It seems to me that most Germans cared more about starving than they did about what the “pink triangle” people were doing.

    While you find it surprising that many high level Nazis had poor “personal morality” despite their treatment of “pink triangle” people I think the two behaviors are related: some of their aversion was due to the fact they recognized this behavior (or its potential) in themselves and were disgusted by it. If more than one US Senator is capable of this sort of hypocrisy I don’t hold Nazis to a higher standard.

    Do you think that there could be a backlash against the Jews due to their association with this? If so exactly what form do you think this would take. I personally think that due to the stance of the Agudah and other Orthodox organizations this is not likely to happen.

    Certainly in the past there’s been a backlash against Jews who were associated with unpopular movements in America’s history. The examples I’m most familiar with are the “Red scare” in the 1950’s and the Civil Rights movement in the ’60’s. During the 1950’s, many Jews in the entertainment and other industries were blacklisted due to their actual or perceived association with Communists (and in some cases, their refusal to name names). During the Civil Rights movement, many Jews marched along with African Americans and helped register voters (Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner were the best known of these). I don’t think that in either case Jews in general suffered as a result of these movements.

34. Pashuteh Yid said:

    “Townshrier, while I hear what you are saying, but another problem is that from recent news events, it often turns out that the strongest family-values politicians are actually the weakest in their personal adherence to the cause. It is easy to make noise, not so easy to control one’s own yetzer hara. It is hard to know who to trust on matters of morality.”

    PY: what’s your point? Because we don’t know who’s really moral, we should not fight for morality? I don’t get it.

35. Anon: I did not say that immorality was THE reason for the nazis rise to power. Of course, b’derech hateva, there were other reasons, and the economic one may have been paramount. But if you study the nazi propaganda, they appealed very much also to the German desire to return to greatness, hard work, moral purity (as they defined it) and thier revulsion at how the nation had sunk very low in these things. They coupled the ideas of morality with the necessary work-ethic, patriotism and devotion to nazi ideology in order to pull the country out of the economic depression.

    Anon for this said:

    “While you find it surprising that many high level Nazis had poor “personal morality” despite their treatment of “pink triangle” people …”

    Where did I say such a thing? I am not surprised, just pointing out the paradox, not the surprise that people who oppressed the pink triangles were themselves often engaged in the same behavior.

    Your question about the nature of a backlash is somewhat naive for a student of Jewish history and the dynamic of anti-Semitism as a supernatural force. Your point about the stance of Agudah is exactly my point: if the frum world can make a strong enough impression on the larger culture, be a light unto the nation, we may avert disaster altogether. That is what I would advocate, which includes a change of course in the tendency of many Orthodox organizations to back candidates even though they promote legal recognition of Toeva. Moreover, the question remains if the efforts of the Orthodox world will be enough to offset the high profile Jewish presence on the other side of this issue.

    Your comparisons to the Red Scare and the Civil Rights movements are both erroneous. In the case of the heavy Jewish role in the American communist movement, we are suffering from it to this day. If you study contemporary anti-Semitic literature then and now, you will find that a repeated theme is that Jews are behind the communist movement, still seek to undermine the country and are viciously hated for it. It is only the Grace of Hashem that has kept these sentiments from boiling over into the larger public debate. That, and the fact that, since commies and liberals run the education system, two and now three generations of Americans have been raised to think the commies were the good guys during the McCarthy era.

    When it comes to the civil rights movement, you’ve got two problems: one, the civil rights movement wasn’t a decadent movement that undermined the moral fabric of the country; two, a great majority of America recognized that the civil rights movement was just. Therefore, the whole constituency for hating the Jews over their involvement is rather limited to the deep south, neo nazis and white supremacists. Thankfully, they are still (for now) very much fringe groups who are rejected by the overwhelming majority of Americans.

36. TownShrier:

    Please explain this sentence in #39:
    “Your question about the nature of a backlash is somewhat naive for a student of Jewish history and the dynamic of anti-Semitism as a supernatural force.”

    I’m not familiar with much anti-Semitic literature, so if you say that the idea that Jews are behind the Communists movement is an important theme in today’s publications, I will agree with you. But given that communism is no longer perceived as the threat it once was, how much influence can this literature have? Are there really more people who are concerned _today_ about Red-loving Jews than there are who those who hate Jews because of their association with the Civil Rights movement? And yes, there _are_ people today who would call the Civil Right movement a “decadent movement that undermined the fabric of our country”.

    Regarding the McCarthy era, I believe that most people today don’t believe that Communists were the good guys; rather, they were turned off by McCarthy’s blanket accusations of thousands of loyal Americans. According to an editorial I read in that bastion of liberal thought, _The Wall Street Journal_, those who investigated actual spies believe that McCarthy gave spy hunting a bad name.

    Of course it’s important to note that the execution of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg associated Jews and Communism in the eyes of the American public more than anything McCarthy said. The publicity surrounding the trial frequently mentioned the fact that they were Jewish. And they were (and still are) the only Americans executed for espionage in this century.

37. On the commies vs. civil rights activists, you and I simply have a difference of opinion on the metzius: I think much more Jew hatred was spawned by their association with communism than was ever spawned by their role in the civil rights movement. In terms of continuing effect, the more dangerous is the affiliation with communism, because it was an existential threat to the country, whereas civil rights are not, to say the least. Moreover, many people believe that communism is quite alive and well under a different name and is still doing great damage: its called liberalism now and it infests our politics, our media, our academia and our culture. Paleoconservatives, such as Pat Buchanan, have never forgiven the Jews for it.

    Re: the McCarthy era, we also disagree. The public, not the WSJ, has been re-educated to think that the communists were just starry-eyed idealists who stood up for their principles and were victimized by the most evil man in American history, Joe McCarthy. McCarthy did not give spy hunting a bad name, but he gave the anti-communist movement a bad name, which did make it a lot harder to root out the stunning number of commies who populated the State Department and many other vital government agencies. McCarthy was right, but he went totally overboard in his approach.

    As you noted, the Rosenbergs were the only American spies executed (albeit in the last century). Their devotion to communism helped stamp communism as a Jewish or Jewish-influenced enterprise.

    Leaving these movements behind, one still has to look around today at the number of extremely liberal Jewish judges (Ginsburg, Breyer on the SCT), liberal Jewish academics (Chomsky, Finklestein, many others), politics (Feinstein, Lieberman, Waxman, Wechsler endless list) media (NYT, NPR, etc) and entertainment (Streisand, Gefen, Spielberg, etc.) and you can see that there is plenty of fodder for any committed or willing anti-Semite to look around and decide that Jews play a big role in a lot that is wrong with the country, starting with the moral decay.

38. I agree 100% with #7. The liberals have taken over our country that has been the epitome of peace and freedom, allowing us to have the “basic and fundamental right” of the 5 freedoms, including religion. where would we be without it??? Keep what the liberals (obama and clinton included) have done to us in mind during the upcoming elections and vote republican/ conservative. for the good of yiddishkeit in america.

39. Pashuteh Yid

    Re: #42. You have an unusual talent for misconstruing what I write. I am not looking to “blame” one particular segment of the people. The whole topic of this thread, starting with Topas’ letter is not to blame any particular group but generally what we can do to improve the moral condition of the country. If anything, it is just because this latest development of raising Toeva marriage to a new legal status and therefore giving it extraordinary prestige and acceptance that sparked a new level of concern based on Torah sources that treat this particular issue with more stringent regard.

    I’m not interested in dealing with anyone’s Yetzer Hara except maybe the Yetzer Hara that says: “Ah, what’s the use of doing anything, it won’t help” or the one that says “Well we have lots of other problems” or the one that says “Well, you aren’t so hotsy-totsy either, so why pick on this particular group”. Respectfully, you’ve demonstrated on this thread that someone can come up with a thousand reasons not to do something, so I have to ask: “What Yetzer Hara are you listening to?”

    Last but not least, I want to repeat so you can’t make the same mistake again, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HARMING ANYONE OR PICKING ON ANYONE. I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO TO INFLUENCE THINGS IN A BETTER DIRECTION SO WE CAN AT LEAST SAY WE TRIED TO PLEASE HASHEM, WE TRIED TO PREVENT HIS ANGER FROM POURING DOWN ON THIS WONDERFUL COUNTRY. Yes, this may mean right now trying to prevent more Toeva rights, but only because it is the leading edge of the moral decay right now.

40. to #14 flatbusher..this is not the way it works with the riboni shel oilem..he doesn’t go according to percentages…to #27..gamzultova you say..”for toavah hashem would have given time to repent”. well, he gave 120 years but pshat is if not for the bein adom l’chaveiroh..he would not have braught mabil but would be manish in other ways…while we are at it, see whats going on globally, the yakrus ,stocks plummenting commodities shooting up, world threatened with yishamaels einklech bombs, worldleaders are guiding us like blind sheep to the slaughter with help of the lefties(see what this idiot lefty supreme court justice kennedy passed to give those subhuman stoneage barbarians rights like a US citizen )..so if you think this is happenstance..see ramban shmos 13 posuk 16 divrei hamschul “v’hoyah l’totafos bein einecho”.in middle, v’atah oimer loch and plenty other mekorim..the bottom line is VAIN ISH SOM AL LEV..that could because, among other things, the world is degnirating into immoral bottomless pit. de velt is nit hefker tzu tuhn vos mevill ..the ibishter doesnt care the we have freedom

41. To: Reuel E. Topas

    May I suggest to you and your co-religious
    friends several things:

    1) More Talmud Torah

    2) More davvenning

    3) More deeds of kindness

    4) Be careful of all goy–including me.

    A goy,

    Gerry Mullen

42. Stangers in a strange land. Rabbi Miller ZT’L always spoke about the importance of making, private demonstrations as every great avalance starts with a mere snowball. WE ARE THE PATRIARCHS OF OUR FAMILIES AND IN OUR FAMILIES. May Hashem send the Mosiach soon to return us from the strange lands we find ourselves exiled to.