11 Responses

1. This is obviously an emotional event and witness testimony about high-fiving is compelling.
   There seems to be a cultural side here – two groups have different expectations about what “wearing mask” is.
   This may be based on their prior experience. Passengers seemingly expected that they need to show compliance at critical moments, and then can be a little relaxed as long as they respond to crew reminders, then everything is OK. Crew may be considering a need to remind as evidence of infraction. This is like some cultures view 9:05 as 9:00, and others as “5 minutes late”.

   We don’t see whole evidence from the start, but here is what I can glean from these videos. These are quick notes, so please correct if I am off here:

   video 2: 4:45 apparently the lady in question explains that there were no problems, saying
   “_kids_ took masks for several minutes”

   multiple cases of masks not on nose, or on a chin:
   1st video 0:50, 2nd video 3:05, 6:20, 3rd 00:00, 00:50, 1:05, 1:24
   some of this is in agitated state, others just show that several people are not used to mask wearing.
   I am not including kids who may be hysterical at this point and not including using a tip of the nose to balance the mask.

   For a baseline, compare whether other people have the same problem or not.

2. Could have, not could of.

3. You think Frontier or any other airline would have kicked these people off merely because ONE yiddishe infant was not wearing a mask? You really think so?

   I’m betting that both stories are true: As Frontier claims, the adults were NOT being compliant regarding masks and, as some of the other passengers claim, the crew was “High-fiving” each other, glad to get rid of people who were loud, arrogant, and disrespectful towards both the crew and everyone else.

   I’m not saying that the crew was right for taking such pleasure in getting rid of them, but I’m betting that there was A LOT of abuse and obnoxious behavior that came before it.

4. The fact remains that in the 9:54 length video, after 4:40 a Chasidic woman states “the little kids wanted to eat, and they took off their masks for a few minutes”. I saw a report about some people who abused that on a recent flight by noshing (snacking) for hours. That is not what guidelines intended.

   A bit later on the same video, the young couple with the toddler with white pacifier in mouth, Yanky & Sussy, are proceeding off the plane, when they are stopped by a family member (Yanky’s father in law?) who exhorts them multiple times, in Yiddish, not to deplane, and to wait for the police to come to them. It seems that if they would have deplaned, the flight may well have taken off.

   Takeoffs and landings particularly are stressful times, and a flight crew is under pressure in general, I suspect even more so with a low-budget airline like Frontier. On a plane, they are the boss. A plane is different than a hotel, it is a more vulnerable environment. There is a certain chain of command, a hierarchy, which, if disrupted, can be bring about a dangerous situation. הוי מתפלל בשלומה של מלכות. The flight crew is the malchus of the plane. Particularly at the outset of the flight, effort should be made to start things off right.

   If a crew is defied by a group of people and need to struggle to reassert control, some subsequent celebration is understandable, even if it ideally should have been better concealed.

   We are in golus and even if they win a battle, they can lose the war, at least in the court of public opinion. That should be kept in mind.

5. “…Could HAVE said”, not “could OF said.” You lose your credibility as a legitimate news source when your English is so poor.

6. THE ANSWER IS A CLASS LAWSUIT AGAINST THE AIRLINE FOR 100 MILLION DOLLARS. THIS WILL TEACH THEM THAT’S IT’S BAD BUSINESS TO START WITH JEWS AND IT WILL SEND A MESSAGE TO OTHER AIRLINES THAT DISCRIMINATE.

7. Comments to questionable websites, press statements, and snippets of videos are not “testimony.” Testimony is sworn under oath or affirmation. Actual testimony has a presumption of credibility because most people would not lie when facing jail time if they are caught. But statements to the media to protect your image when there are no consequences for lying do not have the same credibility as testimony. As “journalists” I’d think you’d know the difference.

   This applies to both the statements from the families and their airline.

8. I was not on the plane and seeing selective video clips does not give a complete and unabridged sequence of what happened. My guess is that Shlomo 2 above has hit the nail right on the head.

   I imagine it is a bit like the Lakewood black face story. In Lakewood, the kids were dressed up in black faces. Many, if not most Chassidishe Yidden will not see anything wrong with that. It is just part of Purim. Some dress up this way some that. However, the average goy finds it offensive and the Lakewood School District is arranging to have educational programming in place by the end of the week.

   Maybe the NYS Health Department needs to provide cultural training for the Jewish Community on how to wear a mask, covering your nose and mouth, or according to other shitas first your mouth then your nose, as well as lessons on how to read a clock. If Shkiya next Shabbos is at 6pm where you live, all melocho is totally forbidden after 6pm. There is no 6:05pm, it is 6pm. Either all the adults masks were on in a fully compliant way or they were not. If you want to play Gemora kop games and eat every minute of the flight, you must expect a “Lakewood black face” reaction.

   Lastly, YWN did the right thing by publishing the Frontier statement. It either shows them up, as YWN suggests, to be wholly insensitive and unresponsive or explains to the Jewish community that when a large group of passengers repeatedly refuse to comply with the U.S. government’s federal mask mandate on an airline, the airline will ensure the Federal requirements are met, if necessary by canceling the flight. Canceling a flight is a costly exercise for an airline and not one it will take for no reason. The behavior of the flight staff may have been, and indeed seems to have been from the selective video clips sent in to YWN, wholly inappropriate. It may be that some of them should be sacked. But then it may be that some of the passengers should find their names on a no-fly list. Calling for sanctions is a two-sided game. And don’t spend any of your expected share of the $100mn class action lawsuit just yet!

9. Not even threatening a lawsuit this time, or reporting to the regulators. Thid anecdotal garbage is cheap clickbait.

10. Anyone who says that putting on a mask for a child under 2 is a good idea is risking the child’s life

11. Jeruselam Observer: Very well said. Even though it is a budget airline frontier flight crews are generally well versed in the rules. For some reason, these low cost flights on to vacation destinations tend to attract less-frequent flyers who are not entirely aware of how rigorously the flight crews are no enforcing the mask requirement since Biden made it mandatory versus the less aggressive enforcement when DOT left it to each airline’s discretion.