Controversy over fashion billboards near one of New York City’s Jewish communities is bringing some unlikely allies together.
H&M Fashions recently replaced a non-Tznius billboard on the BQE just outside of Williamsburg with another advertisement. But Jewish community leaders say that while the new billboard is better, they still aren’t happy.
“If the current picture is offensive then it doesn’t matter that it’s the lesser of two evils. It’s still an evil,” said Rabbi David Niederman, President of UJO.
Rabbonim and Askonim from organizations representing tens of thousands of Jews complain the billboard’s sits next to the BQE, the main transit route between Williamsburg and Boro Park. The rabbis are being joined by other religious groups equally upset with the billboards. “I’m Muslim, I’m a Sunni Muslim, and I feel the same way. No kid should be exposed to that,” community activist Carlito Vega told the media.
H&M, a global fashion company headquartered in Sweden, said in a statement:
“it is certainly not our intent to create controversy or offend the public. We want our ads to surprise and touch people, not upset them. We do follow up every campaign and take immediate action if necessary.”
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48 Responses
If it’s that bad that other (Non-Jewish) communities
are against it too, not just one group.
Then yeah they should take it down, otherwise
I don’t see why they should- this is a free
country and people can post things where they want..
if you don’t like it MOVE TO ISRAEL. Everyone seems
to have to accommodate us like they owe us or something.
i think its a chilul hashem
NYpHotoGrapher,
I think you’re a bit wonky. Even the goyim themselves know that what they’re doing is wrong, just look at an advertisement from
a half a century ago or less, you almost never evn SEE a woman there, and when you do, they’re all wearing long sleevd jumpers etc. Hantige tzaten liyder, you cant even find a normal ad without a immodest picture!!The “normal” goyim themselves are fed up already. They dont owe us anything, they owe themselves a bit of mentchlichkeit!!!!
Dear Photographer:
I can understand why you want to allow anything and everything. You don’t want anyone to cramp your style.
But, in a land of diverse cultures, like the US, we have to avoid offending our neighbors, if we want to get along and avoid conflict.
Let H&M just try to put up a billboard showing Muhammed in charicature–or even worse–next to a pig.
The Muslims will burn their stores down–all over the world.
It’s a country that gives people fredom to choose a legal and decent way of life–not “HefKeRus.”
I haven’t seen it (BH), but I know first hand how NYC is full of this stuff, even on the sides of buses – what makes this billboard worse?
to #1 you hypocrate…when they burned the missionery material in a snall community after it was given to them by missionery prostilizing yidden in a jewish state you complained see article ” residents burn – – – testament” may 20, poat #2..”BURNING WHAT IS SACRED TO OTHERS…DIGUSTING” !! and noe you tell uss to move to israel, so ypour problem is not burnig other sacred book, free speech ..your priblem is you maybe jewish phisically, but l’mayse your are agints the torah (the rel version “so hkaheis again http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/18519/Or+Yehuda+Residents+&+Students+Burn+New+Testament.html#comments
I’m an adult and I find it extremely offensive to sometimes when I least expect it catch a glimpse of an advertisement featuring a scantily-clad woman (or women). I usually keep my eyes either to the pavement or not focused on any particular object, but that doesn’t shield my eyes from the filth of this world. We may be living in Golus and shouldn’t expect them to bend to our religious needs, but the fact still remains that if enough people complain something might be done about it. It’s a pity that these advertisers feel the need to sell their products and fashions using nudity and improper depictions of people.
This is a Chilul Hashem and a big reason for the shidduch crisis. If we can fix this and make an incredible Kiddush Hashem it will fix the Shidduch and Tuition and Gas Crises.
Are we living in the USA or Mea Shearim?
this is so ridiculous no respect for our country.
There is somuch worse going on in the chassidishe velt why focus on this?
H&M capitulated they changed the sign what more do they want this sounds like a shake down jesse jackson style…what a shame!!!!
Here is a solution..DON’T LOOK AT THE SIGN!!!!
NYpHoto
Sounds like if its only jew’s getting offended then its ok, but if other religion’s are offended then it might acually be offensive? Seems like your not to sensitive to the jewish cause! Move to ISREAL and vote left YOU,LL feel right at home!
Bubby:
Quite the contrary, it is a Kiddush Hashem. It shows that Yidden do not want to contaminate themseves with lewd images.
H&M considers all feedback from marketing tactics and will take action when needed. Every situation that garns media attention is meticulously scanned and proper course of action taken. We do not attempt to bother consumers in any fashion and a subsequent response to recent issues will take place.
#1, this isn’t a utilitarian dictatorship, this is a representative democracy, which means that unlike the world we used to live in where we were forced to follow what outsiders demanded of us, we can speak up for what we want to be in our communities. Why is it that if ONE muslim speaks up then suddenly you decide that it’s OK for us to have rights??
You think Israel is any different??? There frum Jews are by no means the majority, but they’re much more vocal about their beliefs there and so they get recognition. People need to realize that in a democracy we ARE entitled to dictate what goes on in our neighborhoods, no matter how much that may differ from other’s views. We don’t need to hide our religion and our beliefs and give in to the mainstream american culture, we have rights in this country and if a billboard in an area with many Jewish citizens offends thousands of religious Jews, then why shouldnt it be taken down?
#2, how is this a CHILUL hashem? Any goy who actually cares will see how the Jews want to keep pritzus out of our neighborhoods, is there any greater kiddush hashem than that?
While that advertisement might be non-tzniut, we do not live in our own country. The same constitutional freedoms that allow us to practice our religion protect such advertisements. If the advertisement is offensive one can turn their head away or try another country. I would suggest Iran, they likely would not allow such advertisements.
I’m not sure why the Jews should “MOVE TO ISRAEL” but if non-jews are involved, then it’s o.k. Why don’t you tell them to “MOVE TO SAUDI ARABIA?”
I also don’t understand why this could be called a Chillul Hashem. It would be a Chillul Hashem if someone vandalized the sign or did anything illegal, but they are exercising their right to protest. This is a capitalistic society – if more people call the advertisers and say that they love the ad, they will keep it. If people protest it, they will pull it. As Jews we have an obligation to keep ourselves as pure as possible in a legal manner and I fail to see why this isn’t a Kiddush Hashem and an attempt at maintaining our Kedusha in an orderly, legal and effective way.
A Chillul Hashem!?
Just the opposite! You have a group that has civilly approached the advertiser and requested that they be sensitive to their society. Any community that has a board, has the obligation to make everyone in the community feel comfortable within their sorroundings. I don’t see why this case would be any different. This is a just democracy and the community has a right to request the advertisement be taken down.
And as matter of fact… I think this is a Kiddush Hashem! They’re showing that they have morals and that they find the advertisement morally offensive.
“MOVE TO ISRAEL”!!! ????
Who believes that is better?
But, true we are in golus, and need to understand that this is not our country.
However, we can request that advertisers be more sensitive to our desire to not poison our eyes and souls by being forced to see this stuff.
And… if you are a driver, you can’t drive with your eyes closed.
And… there is no way to have our kid’s eyes closed.
But… what gets to me is, that if it were just us, frum Yidden who were making this request, so many of you would be “uncomfortable” or embarrassed that we are so “backwards” that we want to turn the clock back to the 50’s in advertising.
But, the moment another religious groups says the same thing …. Oh, now it is fine.
This reminds me of the Chassidishe man who was on a bus or train, and a secular Jew addressed him and said, “I can’t believe you feel it is okay to dress this backwards, especially in public.”
He replied, “Excuse me, Maam, I am Amish. This is how we dress.”
She said to him, “Oh, I am sorry, you can certainly dress as you please. Please forgive me.”
He then addressed her, “Maam, if I am Amish it is okay with you, and you seem proud of me that I am keeping my tradition of modest behavior and dress. But, when you believed I was Jewish, it embarrassed you that a fellow Jew cared about modesty and Jewish tradition.”
How sad.
Chilul Hashem is right on!! It not Maeashearim,and its 4sure not Iran,dont like it move,its a FREE COUNTRY.
To NYpHotoGrapher: Yeah it’s a free country, but that means people are also free to protest!
To BUBBY: And before you start judging what is a chillul Hashem or not, consult your Rav. Asking him if defending Kedushas As Yisroel fits the bill! As long as they do it in a respectfull way, why is that any less than admirable?
When I was in middle school, one company was running a very provacative ad for perfume on the city busses in our neighborhood. Many of us wrote (polite) letters requesting the removal of the ad and explaining that such an ad made many in our community avoid that brand altogether. Apparently, it wasn’t only the frum community that objected. They eventually pulled the ad, and the local newspaper quoted the company as saying that they regret that they ad offended many people in the community. One should never be afraid to stand up for one’s principles – so long as they are handled in a respectful manner.
What people have to realize is that if we want this country to be free for us to be jewish, It has to be free for other people also. lets not forget that. were in galus And its not our country to impose our beliefs on others.
#2 What is the chilul hashem here. Everbody else can complain about things in their area but frmmer yidden can not. I recall on the MTA buses there were offensive ads and Agudath yisroel complained to the MTA and they were removed but when chsidishe yidden complain then it is a chilul hashem. No wonder Moshiach is not here yet the sinas chinom is terrible. Also, # 1 I am soory to tell you that sometimes in Israel there are offensive ads and they are not removed.It is very upseting but here in Chutz Laarerz they are more understanding.
I don’t understand the comments. NYPhotogrpher believes that if non Jewish groups agree then it is OK to object but if only Jewish groups want to object, that is not OK.
Bubby believes that objecting to non tznius billboards is a very serious avayara.
Don’t we have the same freedom to object as they have to put up the billboard?
If you don’t like it, then move to kiryas yoel! I’m sure that over there, there are no such pictures!
NYpHotoGrapher,
“I think you’re a bit wonky. Even the goyim themselves know that what they’re doing is wrong,
just look at an advertisement from
a half a century ago or less,”
Thats great. I am sorry you are so old but
this is the generation of today get over it.
“Dear Photographer:
I can understand why you want to allow anything and everything. You don’t want anyone to cramp your style.
But, in a land of diverse cultures, like the US, we have to avoid offending our neighbors, if we want to get along and avoid conflict.
Let H&M just try to put up a billboard showing Muhammed in charicature–or even worse–next to a pig.
The Muslims will burn their stores down–all over the world.
It’s a country that gives people fredom to choose a legal and decent way of life–not “HefKeRus.” ”
I’m not even sure what your post had to do with mine…but
a picture of a women on a billboard is ridiculous, it doesn’t directly
offend us, it’s more of something else to complain about.
Our community should work from the inside first before
complaining about some stupid billboard, there are enough
problems within.
“to #1 you hypocrate…when they burned the missionery material in a snall
community after it was given to them by missionery prostilizing yidden in a
jewish state you complained see article ” residents burn – – – testament”
may 20, poat #2..”BURNING WHAT IS SACRED TO OTHERS…DIGUSTING” !!
and noe you tell uss to move to israel, so ypour problem is not burnig other sacred
book, free speech ..your priblem is you maybe
jewish phisically, but l’mayse your are agints the torah (the rel version “so hkaheis again”
Spell check that entire thing then get back to me.
Still after a long time figuring out what each word meant
I have no idea what point you are trying to bring out.
“NYpHoto
Sounds like if its only jew’s getting offended then its ok,
but if other religion’s are offended then it might acually
be offensive? Seems like your not to sensitive to the
jewish cause! Move to ISREAL and vote left YOU,LL feel right at home!”
No. What I meant was that if the Jewish community
is complaining because of some stupid billboard and
the only reason they are complaining is 1.Bored
2.Because they might have some dirty dirty thoughts
then yeah they should shut up and get over it.
IF other people from the community complain because
it is TRULY inappropiate and not because of some
dirty thinking then they should take it down and
put a picture of……..ummm I’m not sure what can
be considered clean anyway.
“#1, this isn’t a utilitarian dictatorship, this is a representative democracy, which means that unlike the world we used to live
in where we were forced to follow what outsiders demanded of us, we can speak up for what we want to be in our communities.
Why is it that if ONE muslim speaks up then suddenly you decide that it’s OK for us to have rights??
You think Israel is any different??? There frum Jews are by no means the majority, but they’re much more
vocal about their beliefs there and so they get recognition. People need to realize that in a democracy we ARE
entitled to dictate what goes on in our neighborhoods, no matter how much that may differ from other’s views.
We don’t need to hide our religion and our beliefs and give in to the mainstream american culture, we have rights in this country and if a
billboard in an area with many Jewish citizens offends thousands of religious Jews, then
why shouldnt it be taken down?”
You see the second line is a problem because Williamsburg
isn’t Jewish OWNED.. And maybe a lot of people there DON’T MIND
and maybe even LIKE IT. Is that so hard to believe? Are you going
to judge them now and say they are sick because they don’t think like you?
“Why is it that if ONE muslim speaks up then suddenly you decide that it’s OK for us to have rights??”
I do not recall this EVER. Yes you choose some things because
it’s America but again how many people actually CARE…And again
Williamsburg isn’t owned by Jews, you can go to Kiryas Yoel or something
that is a place where no outside elements make it in.
Israel is no different because you are HERE complaining about it…
Why are you here? Ok I thought so. If all religious Jews from here moved
to Israel and the ones in Israel demanded a religious state not a Jewish one
I think something MIGHT change…But that aint happening because you
are here complaining about a STUPID billboard.
This is not the same as living low in golus like we have been for 2,000 years – NEVER before did we live anywhere with scuh low standards of modesty. Saying ‘well, if you dont like it move’ implies that it’s moraly acceptable to look at such images – anyone who calls themselves frum, and has such a disgustingly secular attitude about this ‘free speech’ nonsense – where in the torah does it say one is entitled to freedom of expression? last time I checked, we follow hashem and his torah – not thomas jefferson.(where is there even any speech in this? please, in the 30’s they had the same constitution and no one would have tolerated this – filthy pritzus today has simply blinded the eyes of even good yidden to the truth). Anyone who says ‘well, just dont look’ or ‘move if you dont like it’, I am sure has some kind of hana’ah from these things, and simply wants to rationalize their lack of shemiras einayim by saying that it’s the 1st amendment or whatever.
protest the billboard all you want … H+M wants to sell their product, and are advertising a certain lifestyle that may appeal to some people. For them to keep the billboard there is bad business, and a waste of advertising money.
That being said, however, we also have no right to expect them to change it. In the end, sad as it may be, immorality is legal, so you cannot expect them to cater to your (correct) sensitivities unless it is in their best interest
Matisyohu28 (#29), once again you are 100% correct.
to#1 NY photographer…you know you are a hypcrite..when in eretz yisroel the yiddishe medine people in a small town who were incensed that missionaries were going arownd and trying to prostelize yidden(imagine yidden going protylizing in vatican!) so they took the missionary material which was given to them and burned it, you said “..burning what is sacred to other people..disgusting” “.. see article” student burn – – – testament…” may 20 post #2.. and now you say “free speech…go to ISRAEL”!so the bottom line is as we derived there (may 20 article)post #14 you are not shomer torah u’mitzvos what are you doing on this site and dispenceing anti torah views?. also over there you first say “burning …sacred..disgustin..” and then you say “..so yeah they probably burned torah too ..” so as you first were worried the they burnd sacred ..- – – testemaent more than they burned torah. we have reyoh to this svarah but too long to print…
to #1..you say this is a free country people can do what they want..so since its a free country, we can protest against influences contrary to our morality, and we we mean all religous people whether jewish, muslim catholic, chris..for there are plenty of religious people who are against this immorality (and, no, immorality is not relavant). So just like you and your immoral friends have a right to shove your decadence down out throats, so do we, all religious people of all nations, have a right to shove it back..and you should know that we are the majority (all decent moral people of all religions), the problem is “all it takes evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing” (think thats how the saying goes).. and thats why all the lefty g-dless organizations (aclu can be considered the leader of all these org.) have their way…
to anyone post #7 excuse please was accidently “pushed button before finnished and corrected..never said me no klotzeleh.. also ding busiess so cant concentrate..
to #2 bubby .. first learn the meaning of “kiddush hashem ” and “chillul hashem” which is not what you seem to think, and then decide if this meet criteria..
to #28..again..the point is you belong on not yet frum site (conservative reform regressive we mean progressive etc. whatever they mean )..so how come you come hear and sputh forth anti torah views free speech by us is only if not against torah principles..
to #28 paragraph 7 (?) you say “some stupid billboard…” so thats what we were ponting out..for you its a stupid billboard you are probably from the one who enjoy it as you point out “and maybe some even LIKE it…”(pragraph 10 (?). you say “i’m not sure what can be considered clean” paragraph 8 (?) we say “not surprising, not surprising..”
to #1 NY photographer (who somehow stumbled on a site he doesnt belong to)..you say “everyone seems to accommodate us like they owe us or something” first of all its not only “US” the same is being accomodated to people of other religions ,muslims ..(plenty things).christians (EG:chris..trees..), so tell me you hate yourself that you are angry that you dont like to be accommodated (others call this “self hating jew..”)but we have chasahd your not jewish…. (we know, your going to say “translate that word (chashad) into english..” that also prooves your no toirehdige yid ,who know this yehivishe sprach (you dont know what that means either..)
to #1 ..as we mentioned in the “yehivah burning article.you refered to”- – – testament”..is also prooves whereyou stand in yiiddishkeit we at torah true yidden dont writeold or new…”v’lo yehei torah achares..”http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/18519/Or+Yehuda+Residents+&+Students+Burn+New+Testament.html#comments see post#2
This billboard incident is yet another example of how the low the standards of morality have dropped. It seems as though anything goes. I think it is a beautiful Kiddush Hashem when the goyim see how passionately we strive to uphold our values, especially when it is conducted in a dignified manner. When we try to maintain kedusha and Kvod Shamayim in our midst, we will hopefully be zoche to S’yata D’Shmaya and success in our efforts.
I also agree with #29. In Yiddishkeit, we dont dress and act in any manner and then tell people not to look. A person who is sensitive to immodest sights and is careful about what his eyes see means he understands what an effect an immoral picture can have on his spiritual well being. There are stories of gedolim whose mothers took special caution and care to cover their eyes and avoid certain places, so as not to taint their pure eyes, and the greatness that they were zoche to because of it. I remember once hearing a beautiful story. A chareidi man sat down on a seat on a bus and a little while later, an immodestly dressed woman sat down next to him. The man rose and took a seat near a secular man. The man questioned him as to why he had to switch seats so quickly. Why couldnt he just not look and what did he think would happen to him if he did. The frum man answered him that only a blind man can stare into the face of the sun. For a person with healthy eyesight, it is too strong and overpowering and the person is forced to look away. The same applies to our spiritual vision. When a person isnt vigilant about the sights he sees, his eyes become cloudy and blurred with impurities. Being careful about Shmiras Einayim ensures that an individual’s eyes remain pure and untainted.
What we see has a tremendous impact on our spiritual wellbeing.
We are the bastion of modesty in a world gone wild. Protests like this show we have not surrendered to the outside world.
If it would be a dangerous junction, you wouldn’t think twice about protesting to have it made safe. Why should our yiddishkeit be any less important.
Who gave us a rifht to protest? We’re in Golus.
#29
I totally agree with you. Many people who say well don’t look is an indication that their spiritual sensitivities are lacking.
nothing wrong in protesting in a nice way.
part of “free country” means the right to state our opinions.
In view of some of the above comments I take the opportunity to explain some aspects of what is Kiddush and Chillul Hashem which I heard from Harav Mordechai Weinberg ZTL. The following is an exact quote of his words:
1)”The main Kiddush and Chillul Hashem is what transpires between Yidden themselves. As the Pasuk says Viniskadashti besoch bnei yisroel and Vinischallalti besoch bnei yisroel.
2)The second type of Chillul Hashem is what the gentiles will say about our actions as we say in Shabbos Musaf Lama Yomroo Hagoyim. But if what is being done is intrinsically correct then irrelevant of what the goyim say is does not constitute chillul Hashem in any way.”
In this case Yidden are respectfully requesting that lewd images should not be visible in their midst. As such this is not only not a Chillul Hashem but on the contrary it is a Kiddush Hashem. It shows that Jews do not wish to be contaminated with immodest images.
For the sake of complete acuracy my posting in #46
should have been:
In view of some of the above comments I take the opportunity to explain some aspects of what is Kiddush and Chillul Hashem which I heard from Harav Mordechai Weinberg ZTL. The following is an exact quote of his words:
1)”The main Kiddush and Chillul Hashem is what other Yidden say about our actions. As the Pasuk says Viniskadashti besoch bnei yisroel and Vinischallalti besoch bnei yisroel.
2)The second type of Chillul Hashem is what the gentiles will say about our actions as we say in Shabbos Musaf Lama Yomroo Hagoyim. But if what is being done is intrinsically correct then irrelevant of what the goyim say is does not constitute chillul Hashem in any way.”
In this case Yidden are respectfully requesting that lewd images should not be visible in their midst. As such this is not only not a Chillul Hashem but on the contrary it is a Kiddush Hashem. It shows that Jews do not wish to be contaminated with immodest images.
The corection I made was in the first sentence of number 1. I apologize for the error.
“MOVE TO ISRAEL”!!!
When you’d find a swastika painted on your car you’d also say MOVE TO ISRAEL!!!, or you’d put up a fuss with the police department? same whem a thug comes over to mug you, you’d also say MOVE TO ISRAEL!!!, or you’d put up a fuss with the police department? how about a chilul hashem? you’re in golus… you don’t like everyones expressions? just MOVE TO ISRAEL!!!
Why when your soul/neshoma gets offended, you’re very comfortable with sending everyone to Israel, it’s chilul hashem, and a free country.. otherwise when hurting your guf or even your prestige, … your not so lenient. time to open a mussar sefer.
to #48 he doesnt know what is musser sefer..have chashad he’s not a yid..from the tone of his writing “burning sacred books..disgusting…” “old” testa- – – t” yidden dont refer to “old” or “new” ani mamin shlo tehai torah achares…”
49- if so many of the ppl posting here are suspected of as not being jewish – what are you doing on a goyishe website??
to #51 see #51
#52 – do you mean to say, “look into the mirror?”