The Young Israel of Deerfield Beach isn’t playing games.
Apparently, some members of the Shul participated in a “rouge Minyan”, and the Rov of the Shul is taking action.
In a letter sent to the entire Shul membership, it calls out the “raw Chutzpah and dangerous Safek Pikuach Nefashos” that these individuals engaged in.
“Those individuals who participated will be stripped of any current positions in our Shul and denied any forms of Kibudim including aliyos, baalei kriah and Shiluchei Tzibur and Maggidei Shiur.”
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Read the full letter attached below:
(YWN World Headquarters – NYC)
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67 Responses
1-Rogue, not rouge.
2- Kol hakavod.
OuT , not ouR
Rogue, not rouge 😃
To go to stores where there are 10 or people shopping for ice creams and dips is perfectly fine. But to daven with a minyan is not. Where are our priorities? Are you for real? And why is it anyone’s business where someone davens? If someone has nine sons and they daven with their father in the house, is that also a “rogue minyan”? Give me a break.
Derech Eretz Kudmo LaTorah.
If the Rav says something you listen.
Rouge is makeup. You mean “rogue”.
Will they do the same to members who keep their businesses open; also against psak and law?
Will they treat everyone who violates any other aveira in the same manner?
Will they ban smokers, drivers on cellphones, and any other group who breaks the law and endangers others?
It is obvious that both groups are wrong;
No shul member should be making a minyan if their own rov doesn’t let. If they choose to follow a different rov or differing medical opinion then they should resign their shul membership, albeit if only temporarily.
And the shul board are certifiably batshit crazy for their reaction. They have propagated machlokus with their response, torn their kehilla apart at a time when most of klal yisroel seek unity; arguably a far greater transgression than the foolhardy minyan.
The actions taken by the Shul are totally unacceptable. It is totally acceptable for their Board Members to sit inm the back of the Shul and talk throughout Davening and the Rabbi says nothing to them.
Why is The Rabbi insulted . Dear Rabbi if you can shop in a grocery store than you can Daven in a minyan with a mask . So when is this ridiculousness going to stop .
Wish the Rabbonim in the 5 Towns had the same “koach”.
Anyone see the “approved” front lawn minyanim that just could not follow the rules this past Shabbos? What chutzpah! That’s why the Rabbis shouldn’t have eased the rules – they give a finger and these baalei gaavah take the hand (including some “rabbonim”). CRAZY!!! I’m moving to Deerfield Beach!
Your second paragraph should read “rogue” not rouge”
Kol hakovod to the Rav and the Shul’s Board for speaking emes and taking immediate and forceful action. Let these mindless individuals make their “rogue minyan” permanent (perhaps they can find a venue close to the nearest ER) so they can infect one another and their families and not risk the lives of the 99 percent of yidden who followed the guidance of our gadolim and public health professionals.
Enough
Absolutely preposterous… The flu is more dangerous than this “pandemic”
Which posek every permitted this letter to be sent to the public?
Will they also kick out members whose wives don’t cover their hair or wear pants? I doubt it! Hypocrites. You must listen to the rabbi but it is ok to not listen to the torah….
Why get so emotional?
Good thing they had at least 10 people in the ‘rouge’ minyan – they can now open up a new minyan!
Time for a breakaway minyan in a new shul!
@Myob613
So, now they are allowing the worst forms of profanity on YWN?
Is that where Klal Yisroel is holding?
Time to start a breakaway minyan in Dearfield.
Enough with tyranny, dictatorship, egomaniacs.
This letter makes clear that someone’s ego got bruised when his psak wasn’t followed. Sorry but he isn’t the possek hador. Not even possek ha’ir.
Plenty of people in the community would join and support a new shul. Time to breakaway.
Will they Chas V’Sholom also be kicked out of the Kiddush Club?
A shul has an absolute right to decide its policies on membership and which members will be granted a kavod. Some of the same tzadikim who defend the right of a yeshiva to expel students who violate the rules on smartphones, are the first ones screaming gevalt when a shul excludes those who violate the directives of their rabbonim and public health officials and put the lives of other members at risk.
Without Hasra’ah this seems completely out of bounds. The Shul may be taken to a din Torah.
Amen to my friends above
Are the ppl who are machmir on sofek pikuach Nefesh- and of course everything is a safek like when a kid gets a boo boo on Shabbos and the ambulances are there in a flash, machmir on anything else.
Were any of the officers listed on the letterhead included in the expulsees? I’m not daas Torah but in general my feelings tend more towards those who say that we need unity now, not machlokes. Also I suspect (though I’m not sure) that halacha would require giving them advance warning and a chance to repent before taking such action. Such things require guidance from Gedolim.
Century Village is a gated retirement community located in Deerfield Beach, FL with 30,000 senior citizens residing on its square mile property. The Young Israel of Deerfield Beach, located just outside the gate, is the only shul serving that community. Rabbi Yisroel Edelman, a Lubavitcher chasid, has led their 1,200 members for more than a decade with great dedication, especially to the health and safety concerns of his aging membership. Two months ago, the Rabbi and the Board wisely decided that they must close the shul and strictly forbid all private minyanim since all of their members are at-risk seniors. Any breach of social distancing presents an imminent threat not only to their lives but to those of tens of thousands of other residents, many of them Jews.
The breach that occurred has no similarity to what might be happening in any other community and the local authorities have not yet relaxed the imposed heath restrictions. One can only imagine the nightmare scenario if ch”v the virus would begin to spread there.
This isn’t about the minyan, it’s about the rov’s authority. If you want to be a member of a community you simply cannot make choizek of the rov’s psokim, no matter how much you disagree with them. And the rov can’t let you make choizek of them, or he’s not a rov, he’s a shmatteh. That’s what this is about.
I have a lot to say about this incident and the resultant letter and analysis thereof, but there is so much that is wrong with this picture, so to speak, that I first need to finish crying about the terrible pain and strife this community must be living with for a very long time now that has allowed such a letter to even begin to be contemplated. Such vitriolic hatred! How sad. How utterly sad.
Another point: Even if they were right in punishing the minyan participants in the way they did, it would still be appropriate to call upon the shul’s members to daven that no one suffer any adverse consequences from the minyan, that its participants and everyone else in the kehilla be spared from any illness or other harm. This is also a good opportunity to note that I’ve been told by a senior lung surgeon that cigarette smoke exhaled by a carrier (and everyone now is suspect of being a potential carrier) can carry the virus, so the shul (and everyone else) should certainly forbid smoking in public and warn anyone who sees someone smoking to stay far away from him. The surgeon said that if you can smell the smoke through a mask that shows that the mask needs to be fitted better. May Hashem protect all of us. And may we remember the immortal words of Rebbe Chanina ben Dosa in Brochos, “It’s not the snake that kills, it’s the sin the kills,” said after a poisonous snake bit him and then died.
I believe this shul is in Century Village, which is primarily senior citizens and retirees. I see the need for them to be extra careful
Let’s be real. In the Jewish communities the virus is over, I don’t see or hear of anyone catching it. the action of the shul is overdone and is a chillul Hashem to publish such a letter. What did they do already? I’m sure they were careful to keep far apart and cover their faces. שטותים והבלים!
To ayef12: This is not just not obeying the Torah! These are so called frum people going against Gedolei Yisroel/health ministries and they are thereby becoming a threat/danger to the community at large. Going against Torah in other ways does not effect anyone else. And sure, they should do teshuva, but possibly infecting others with a killer desease, they are responsible to the public and as such have din of a roidef!! That is not called frum! That’s called crum/twisted logic!
Unbelievable hefkerus!!!
If the Rov of the shul issues a WRITTEN psak NOT to have a minyan, and members choose to ignore him, then they are disrespecting their morah d’asra and kehillah. For the sake of kovod hatorah this HAD to be done in this particular situation.
I doubt the shul sent this letter to YWN, if this letter went out to all the members then it could of been forwarded from anywhere.
Do you know that they’re going to crowded grocery stores? Do you know the stores are even crowded? I thought they had strict limits now. Don’t copy the goy in your arguments and assumptions, they have essentially admitted they have no values and ignoring reality is akin to doing something.
I hope that no self-respecting Jew ever steps foot into that Young Ishmael ever again.
So a shul splits over a political issue! This is a hiddush? Shuls frequently split over political issues, so much so that it shouldn’t be considered newsworthy.
What people fail to understand in this case is that this YI Shul is in a senior citizen community where 99% of the people are over 65 and or have other issues that would probably kill them if they were to be exposed to Covid-19. If the Shul Board and the Rabbi agree that there should be no Minyanim anywhere in the gated community, what gives these people the right to make their own Minyan? What if someone at that Minyan was a carrier and exposed everyone else there? Here in Florida, the cases are still increasing as are the deaths. When the Shul Rov Paskens that there will be no Minyanim because of Suffak Pikuach Nefesh, that is the decision that the community must follow. The Shul is 1000% correct in their decision and correct to publicize it so it doesn’t happen again.
5townsjew-
I’ll come over and help you pack.
Interesting how some people are militant about being kappos regarding their neighbors minyonim but are silent about the wine store being open, cleaners being open etc. Do you stand in Gourmet Glatt with a tape measure and post your drivel when you see ppl not 6 feet apart?
Were you up in arms in glicks bakery when ppl were 5.5 feet apart getting challah for shabbos?
I didn’t think so.
Safe trip to Deerfield Beach. You will love their rules. From what I understand, there is nothing on this wonderful earth that they enjoy more.
@Frumshmurda718
How dare you say that. I personally know of so many that died in that terrible month, including ages 32 and up.
I’m not giving my opinion. But please bear in mind that the community has many elderly people which might warrant such an approach.
While true that some states like NY and NJ have been hit particularly hard it is also true that the deaths from this terrible pandemic in NY are now less than a quarter of what it was at the height of the pandemic more than a month ago. Yet many people are prevented from going to work, school, shuls etc and are beginning to wonder why the opening is being delayed with no end in site. Big deal that in some places in NYS one can beginning in a few days go to a drive in movie theater while sitting in their car – I never understood how that could spread the disease. Much of what goes on is now illogical. If I can go to the super market or big box store with a mask and proper social distancing why can’t I go to my office with the same restrictions or for that matter a shul. The cure is now worse than the disease. 30 million unemployed, people prevented from getting elective procedures done – no its not plastic surgery I am talking about, but rather orthopedic repairs, biopsies necessary to detect cancer early so it can be treated etc. There have been many people dying at home with non covid related medical issues such as heart attacks as people were scared off by the government and the media of the dangers of going to the hospital. Child abuse, domestic abuse and suicides are up. Crime is up. Yet it seems that the only disease that is worthy about talking about is covid. Nothing else matters.
Now as far as the minyanim are concerned. Daas Torah is what we should be listening to. Having said that, I am wondering if Daas Torah would change if in a couple of weeks it wasn’t Shvuos that was coming but rather Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. The way the governers of NY and NJ are handling this with the idea of schools possibly not opening in September, I can guarantee you that they won’t allow shuls to open either. So the time is now for the members of our clergy as well as those of other faiths to approach the government to seek to reopen houses of worship with social distancing and mask requirements so that we don’t awaken one day in September and wonder about how we will hear the sound of the shofar.
There is a huge difference between moving about in a store, for necessary items and/or an ice cream shop etc. and being in close quarters for hours. And to the person who wrote that the flu is more dangerous than this pandemic – in quotes no less – (such disrespectful snark) if you have the flu, you’ll be contagious one day before developing symptoms and up to five to seven days after becoming ill. Younger children or people with a weakened immune system may be contagious for longer. There is no comparison THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH. Typos and all, Kol HaKavod to the Rav. This needs to be taken seriously.
Why are the comments above mentioning the spelling of “rogue”. It is spelled correctly in the letter and is used correctly. I belong to this Shul and there have been many notices sent by the many different entities regarding this issue. As late as last week all of the Orthodox Rabbis in the South Florida region mentioned this and the forbidding of such gatherings. They disregarded this and their Rav directly.
Can someone please explain, rationally without hysteria, what the problem is exactly if people gather outdoors with proper social distancing to daven? You can’t., because there’s really no problem. Saying otherwise is just a knee jerk, emotional response without clear thinking. Thank the media and the mayor and the governor who’ve created and nurtured this irrational fear and panic and conditioned the public to cry foul at the slightest imagined provocation. They’ve encouraged it grow to ridiculous proportions to the point where some people even wear masks while driving alone in their cars!! None of it makes sense.
are the ppl who are machmir on sofeik pikuach nefesh and chillul hashem machmir on anything else in the torah
I don’t really care what they do at this shul, but the way this letter is worded is pretty low class.
To start a formal letter, from a shul no less, with words words like revulsion and disgust is pretty…well, repulsive and disgusting.
Must be a rogue rabble rouser who wrote this.
Are you people crazy??? Actually that is a dumb question due to the fact that I feel like I am in a asylum of nutcases. How in the world can you say such things about a Rav like that. My blood pressure is currently skyrocketing. If you can live with yourself after being MEZALZEIL a Talmud Chachom like that you belong in a asylum. Next time you want to argue a decision from a Rav First lean a little so you can maybe say you are a Talmud Chachom. Also don’t have this Zilzul happen here if you have such a problem then call the Rav and discuss it with him. I am absolutely SHOCKED how low some Yidden have sunk.
Sorry not SHOCKED but rather ASHAMED!!!!!!!!
I second what mik5 wrote. And I’ll add line:
There was a long line in Bingo Supermarket (all wearing masks and adhering to social distance of course) , and someone announced “MINCHA ANYONE!?” , and people started shouting back “Hey that’s not allowed! it’s Safek Pikuach Nefashos” … yeah right
Let me start by saying that I would have written very similiar comments to the ones already made HOWEVER, you are all not being told the entire story. The Rav of the shul had heard that such a minyan was going to take place BEFORE they actually had the Minyan. The Rav then sent out a call to all members to not parake in any such minyanim. AGAIN, ON FRIDAY THE RAV SENT OUT A CALL TELLING EVERYONE NOT TO PARTAKE IN SUCH A MINYAN. The people then decided to go ahead with the minyan regardless. THEN, the letter was sent out to the shul. Not saying I agree with the letter but it sheds a new light on the situation
5townsjew, I like your idea of moving to Deerfield Beach. I believe you would fit right in. You would be able to join the kehila in the (mixed) swimming pool which they somehow figgured out how to open without being עובר on social distancing guidelines which of course they couldn’t figure out for the Shul.
King David you are a disgrace to that name. you obviously don’t understand that there is a sevara of emunas chachamim this must be new to you but if you think you know better than all of these rabonim then go ahead. Although personally I think until you have at least leaned shas 1 time before you say anything against them.
All of you have to understand that we all have to be Dan Lecav Zecus. If you look at all of the comments you see all of the times people said things that somone else explained.
Bakavod the Rav who I respect greatly, this unfortunate circumstance of a renegade minyan is not just a Florida phenom, its all over. That being said, we do not see such harsh responses to nearly put people in a semi charem. Ani katan, but I can’t see how publicly embarrassing people is the right solution. Knowing my Rav, he would never pasken this on his own and would ask the gedolei yisroel what the right response should be. There are too many noga b’davars involved in a shul that is already divided on many issues (see some of the earlier comments). For the sake of shalom in klal Yisroel, please reconsider this approach. G-d is calling out to us every day, imagine if G-d would zap us off the face of the planet when we disregarded his commands.
If it is so that the people who participated in this “rogue minyan” were themselves Senior Citizens then it’s even WORSE! If the Rav says something and they ignore him… What kind of example are these “Zaides” setting for their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren?!?!
I am extremely serious about this.
@elipp 5townjews neighbors offered to pay for moving truck they are so sick of his constant complaining.
FYI houses of worship are allowed to open in Florida for some reason the grumpy old men aka YI board didn’t want the shul to open which is fine by most because this way they can sleep later.
BTW dementia runs rampant is century village so chances are that they will properly forget they wrote the letter next week
Rebbitzen Goldenpickanicerscreenname are you normal????? This Rav can pasken whatever he thinks is right and his kehilah should follow suit
He isn’t paskening for everyone
Rebbitzeng: You do know that the Rov of this shul is lubavitch.
If indeed the rabbi was forced to sign the letter, as is claimed (therefore rov isn’t merely defending his own pride), it creates a comical situation.
The rabbi is forced against his will to sign a letter demanding that because others did not follow the will of the rabbi, those others have acted disrespectfully to the rabbi, by going against his will, and therefore those people must be sanctioned.
Wouldn’t the “forcers” that force the rabbi, wouldn’t they be acting against his will?! Shouldn’t those people that force their rabbi to sign, be sanctioned?! Are they disrespecting the rabbi?!
If these minyaners had enough gelt, no letter would be put out against them.
As Chazal say, kessef mitaher mamzerim, kal v’chomor, mispallelim.
And Akiva Rosenberg, yu are wrog. The Rav can NOT pasken whatever HE thinks is right, because his psak must be based on halacha. And if he simply paskens based on whatever it is HE thinks, then is kehilah should NOT follow suit!
Akiva: If you have ever had a back and forth with rebG on this forum you wouldn’t ask the question. You would already know the answer!
Those who are pointing out the correctness and justification (and it certainly sounds that the punishment may have been well justified and appropriate) of the shul stripping these members of their rights and kibbudim, would certainly also agree that if a Rov ruled that it is mandatory for everyone to wear a skirt that’s minimally 4 inches below the knee and isn’t tight, sheitel that isn’t too long, etc., that it would be entirely appropriate and he’d be fully justified to punish the women violating that as well as their husbands/fathers who permitted it by stripping them of any honors, rights and kibbudim
There are TWO sides to every story and this letter shows only one side, and obviously written in anger and over the top. If you are interested in this situation then you have to ask questions:
Was this minyan indoors or outdoors?
Were the people involved standing near each other or at the appropriate social distance?
Were they properly protected with masks?
Why did they feel the need to make this minyan?
Are they having any other social gatherings at this community or was this the only one?
Is the Shul in charge of the entire community or just the members of the shul?
Who wrote the letter the Rabbi or the Board?
Did the entire Board approve this letter or was it one person who took it upon himself to speak for everyone?
If you know anyone in this community call them and ask. I did. This letter is over the top and totally inappropriate. It has made a mountain over a mole hill and caused a HUMONGOUS Chilul Hashem since it has been sent around the world and posted on various websites without knowing the facts of the case. If the editors of these websites would investigate the facts, they would remove this post as to not embarrass this Rabbi and the community.
Lowerourtuition & akiva:
Are yidden “normal”?
Is our tachlis to be “normal”?
What defines “normal”?
Yidden are the Am Hanivchor, that makes us extraordinary, which means not the ordinary or “normal”.
The 70 nations of the world try to define the norms of thought, speech and behavior. These norms are usually opposed by Torah observant yidden.
In that context, I am proudly not “normal”.
However, in the context of normative yiddishleit, there are rules for sanctioning someone in niduy or cherem. A mesarev l’din is stripped of privileges in the shul. These sanctions come within those parameters (niduy or cherem).
I suggest these hapless victims of tyranny summon the Rov and his henchmen to a Bais Din!
What no one mentioned is when Rabbi Edelman asked beforehand that these minyanim should not be taking place, he specifically mentioned that he CONSULTED with the OTHER RABBONIM in Florida and they all came to a concensus that this environment is not yet safe enough to have minyanim. He did not act on his own.
lowerourtuition11210 wrote: “Rebbitzeng: You do know that the Rov of this shul is lubavitch.”
Is that supposed to explain anything?! Since the Rov of the shul is Lubavitch, does that make it ok to sanction these minyangoers?! Ma inyn shmita aitzel har sinai?!
That makes as much sense as saying” Rebbitzen, You do know that the Rov of this shul has a full beard and payos.”
There are TWO sides to every story and this letter shows only one side, and obviously written in anger and over the top. If you are interested in this situation then you have to ask questions:
Was this minyan indoors or outdoors?
Were the people involved standing near each other or at the appropriate social distance?
Were they properly protected with masks?
Why did they feel the need to make this minyan?
Are they having any other social gatherings at this community or was this the only one?
Is the Shul in charge of the entire community or just the members of the shul?
Who wrote the letter the Rabbi or the Board?
Did the entire Board approve this letter or was it one person who took it upon himself to speak for everyone?
If you know anyone in this community call them and ask. I did. This letter is over the top and totally inappropriate. It has made a mountain over a mole hill and caused a HUMONGOUS Chilul Hashem since it has been sent around the world and posted on various websites without knowing the facts of the case. If the editors of these websites would investigate the facts, they would remove this post as to not embarrass this Rabbi and the community.
Facts:
The pool is open allowing 34 people in at a time in one hour intervals with 15 minutes in between for sanitizing
There was a Yom Haatzmaut, Israel Independence Day Celebration, without comment from the Rabbi or shul
There have been other gatherings without comment
The Rabbi is NOT the community Rabbi he is the Rabbi of the YI located outside the community, but is an owner in the community like everyone else.
There are other shuls outside the community.
There are other Rabbis in the community.
The minyan was an outside minyan with only 12 people on their porches and on the grass, appropriately distanced with masks just so one person who desperately wanted to say Kadish could do so.
These people pay membership to the shul, they are grown ups and not children and can not be treated as if they are in school and the Rabbi and board are the principal and Dean.
Who are they hurting when the ban the Daf Yomi Shiur, the man who gives it or everyone who learns from him?
Who has this letter hurt the most? It has caused a huge chilul Hashem and it would be best if this thread and all threads concerning this letter be removed from ALL Jewish websites.
“BREAKING BAD” NEWS:
The letter is UNSIGNED!
The edict was never executed.
The judgement has not been sealed.
It is a draft used to intimidate, extort and dictate.
Time for both sides to apologize o each other and make sholom.