Should Orthodox Jews be armed like this? Assault rifles? Handguns quietly hidden in their pants? No guns at all? Hire armed guards to protect our Shul’s? What do you think? Sound off in the comments below.
These photos and videos were taken on Sunday afternoon at the Hachnosas Sefer Torah at Scheiner’s Shul in Monsey, just nearby where the attack last night took place at Rabbi Rottenberg’s Shul.
Following the shooting attack at the synagogue in Pittsburgh in 2018, YWN published a Halachis Analysis and article by Rabbi Yair Hoffman about why every Shul must have an armed guard.
Earlier today, there was a shooting inside a church in Texas. The first video below was taken inside that church.
See why every single Shul should have an armed guard:
VIDEO MAY BE DISTURBING TO SOME – VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED:
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71 Responses
Yes, of course. Every Jew should start implementing use of his or her Second Amendment rights to self defense and protection. Why the heck not?
Haven’t we learned anything from history? When are Jews going to stand up for themselves? If thugs have machetes, guns & other instruments of murder, seemingly easy to get, we need to stop being law-abiding sheeple and arm ourselves. Because as we keep seeing, no one else is doing anything to protect us. The law favors the criminal, thanks to a Marxist mayor.
Shame the local government that can NOT protect its citizens. This will eventually cause the federal government to come in and offer protection for the plain people.
It seems smart at first but this is not our way and has never been the way. This may instigate more CHSVSHLM….
Jews arming themselves and refusing to be the victims is what Chanukkah is all about.
Our Manhigim were opposed to the JDL. Ever wonder how come?
And for the record .the Wild West was full of guns everywhere . and that didn’t stop gun violence, did it?
As to the question: “why now”
the moral underpinnings of society frayed and decayed and we didn’t seem to care. We allowed our politicians a free hand and remain smug that We will take care of our own
The lower classes cannot connect the dots And are inarticulate
They suffer the most damage by it all And they react by thrashing out
WHat do you suppose is going to ensue
Adam Garfinkle, editor of The American Interest, “I don’t know of any great power in history that lost its foothold or decayed because of external reasons; internal social dysfunction was to blame.
…
health of society is its morality
Note to YWN: Misleading headline, there is no such thing as an “Assault Rifle”.
Besides the statement from Rav Rottenberg that I read on YWN, have any American Rabbonim, Agudah leaders or other organizations made any statements? Any Kol Korehs for their followers on what actions to take? Any proclamations from anyone on why these terrible events are occurring in frum neighborhoods?
Sad that we have come to this low situation and growth in anti-Semitism have we not woken up to the direct wake up call from Hashem for serious teshuva and achdus together as one loving nation? Are we still living in denial and think all this is just plain coincidence? Don’t we all know the true Torah fact that THERE’S NO SUCH A THING AS COINCIDENCE and that everything comes directly from Hashem and with a reason.
May we all wake up ASAP and do teshuva ASAP asa loving nation together so mashiach can come already
May all the sick have a refuah shleima ASAP
1) The Monsey attacker was mentally ill, not someone who would think rationally.
2) The Texas attacker knew quite well that the church would be full of armed people, yet he went in there anyway. And BTW, with all due respect to these fellows, did you see how the Texas people calmly stood up and faced the attacker? That’s something learned in combat and in the police force, not at a shooting range. Could any of these guys honestly say they would have stood up to face an armed shooter and shot calmly, rather than drop to the floor or hide behind a post, like everyone else?
Time taken to shoot attacker: About 2 seconds. Don’t mess with that dude.
Just hope next time someone doesn’t get maftir…. guns don’t go ablazin’.
Concealed carry handguns with a high level of training. Open carry is bad for several reasons.
CG1994,
1) I don’t know about you, but i’m in middle of this holiday called Chanukah. On this holiday the Maccabees – jewish warriors kicked the jews enemies out of jerusalem. Seems like arming ourselves is the jewish way.
2) The late Rabbi Gissinger asked R’ Chaim Kanievsky if his shul should hire sharpshooters, the reply was “if you want”.
I think R’ Chaim knows what he is talking about.
3) No, this will not instigate more. the only reason these attacks happen is because there is no consequence. If every potential attacker knows that in the back of the synagogue there is a gun and he will get killed if he tries anything he will not commit the attack.
4) The jewish partisans in the 1940’s had a much higher survival rate than the standard jew in the street.
5) U’shmor es nafshoisechem isn’t a joke, it’s one of the 613 commandments given to the jewish people by god.
6) When the yidden were by the yam suf with the egyptians coming in from behind, says the medrash that the yidden began davening. God spoke to moses saying, “Why are you davening to me now, this is the wrong time, EIS LA’ASOS,” and Nachshon ben Aminadav took the hint and began forging his own path. God continued the battle for him and split the sea.
7) In summary, we call it “Hishtadlus”.
One small pistol will always defeat one large machete
Stupid Idea
Do you really want our community to look like this?
Do we live in Chevron?
Yes we may have some pocket rifles in every big shul
We should hire armed security guards in all our schools & yeshivas
But we don’t live in a war town
No we are not in occupied territories
Everyone out there Just be safe
We’re still in גלות & we’re all waiting for משיח is on the way
I don’t know if I am qualified to have an opinion… is this a good thing or not … but I am very impressed with those that were interviewed. They were not belligerent – they certainly did not talk like hot heads – I wish them lots of luck and hope they never ever have the need to use their weapons. But if ch’v someone does attempt to harm innocent person(s) I hope they shoot well – like the guy in the church earlier today. Why waste more than one bullet?
If the people with the guns have been properly trained and are willing to cooperate with the local authorities, then this is a good thing. However, if they are a gang of “cowboys” looking to be a vigilante mob, it will lead to disaster. BTW those claiming that this is not “the Jewish way” are woefully ignorant of Jewish history and American history as well.
look at the video above of the shooting in the church. See how quickly that ended! Multiple citizen parishioners inside at the service immediately drew handguns on the shooter and although he did manage to get off 3 shots first, with a surprise and no warning, if nobody had been armed, b’derech hateva, he could have easily slaughtered dozens of people.
An untrained person is more likely to shoot themselves or a bystander than to kill a terrorist.
Just look at tex
Every Jew a 22
כחי ועוצם ידי עשה לי את החיל הזה
Oh YWN. You mean so well. Then you blast a ridiculous headline. Ugh. There’s not a single assault rifle pictures in this article. Why? Why? Why that headline? Are there multiple editors? I can’t figure this place out.
This is fine, but they should organize better and get uniforms to clearly identify themselves as members of the Jewish community. Otherwise it will be hard for law enforcement and other community members to discern between them and openly armed threats. They should also get weapons retention training if they haven’t already so that their weapon isn’t taken forcefully and used against others.
You mean more than 6 million ? And what ever the numbers were in the spanish inqisition and other progroms.
Yes off course this must be done in synch with prayer and love and respect to every kind of jew .
Rural farms have little risk of being attacked by burglars, hoodlums etc, reason being: “Everyone know” that many (or all) farmers have guns, firearms, rifles etc. Therefore, the word is that if someone breaks into their secluded farm houses, there is a good chance the bad guy will be shot.
My point is, word needs to get out that Jews carry. That in itself will be a deterrence. Word on the street is important to establish security. That is more effective then guards.
However, to establish this information on the street, there needs to be a factual nexus.
Doesn’t matter what I think, this is what HaShem has to say about it:
“This is the word of Gd to Zerubabel; Not by might, nor by power but by My Spirit, says HaShem Tvakot”
Zechariah 4:6
Mr. Meir Kahane started the armed JDL and look how much it helped him. He was shot dead in New York.
I agree with this 100% I just don’t agree with making a whole scene out of it
There are more armed bad guys than Jews. If we fight with weapons they’ll outgun us with bigger guns and much more people.
Weaponry isn’t how Jews fight. We have Hashem only.
@cg1994 instigate more? It isn’t bad enough yet for you?
CG1994, who said it has never been our way? I think it’s just you. Before guns, Jews in ancient times always carried swords and daggers as was customary for any adult male walking out in public. When Yaakov went to confront Eisav, he prepared a doron, he utilized the power of tfilah, and he also very strategically prepared for milchama which is physical confrontation. Only a shota relies on nissim instead of preparing oneself for protection from physical harm. A sane person protects himself and those who depend on him. It absolutely imperative Jews learn how to use firearms.
@cg1994
Really??? This has never been our way??Does your thinking apply to Israel also? Did you forget that the jews fought back against the Greeks?
@cg1994
What do you consider OUR way?
“People think the only thing that will help them is praying” (first video)
This didn’t bother me until I heard THAT
The point of antisemitism is for us to introspect and become closer to Hashem. Of course we need to make a show of hishtadlus, but we are focusing intensely on hishtadlus as if it will help instead of primarily turning to Hashem.
There should definitely be a program of providing armed and WELL-TRAINED security personnel in all shuls and mosdos. However, having a bunch of guys running around with AK-47s and ammo belts looking like Rambo in yeshivish lvush and posing for photos and grinning for the TV cameras really should not make anyone feel safer.
WE DON’T WANT TO FIGHT
BUT BY JINGO IF WE DO
WE’VE GOT THE MEN,WE’VE GOT THE GUNS,WE’VE GOT THE MONEY TOO.
@cj1994 . You obviously DON’T know Navi nor Jewish history post closure of biblical canon. Yakov avinu preparing for battle, Sh’vat Gad were always were first in battle, the story of Purim. (Jews killing their enemies?) etc. Check the requirements for Bar Kochba’s rebellion, the Maccabim, during the time of Bustenei and before (armed Jewish regiments). Long story short, is Jews were ALWAYS armed, prior to Christianity ascendance (where the persecution of Jews started en mass). You need to open your eyes and read the handwriting on the wall. Jews must be armed period.
just what we need. every loony tune in the neighborhood with a gun. i feel safe now!
Silliest quote of the day: “Weaponry isn’t how Jews fight. We have Hashem only.” (by Joseph)
Sure, that is what the Bnei Yisroel did in the midbar with Amalek and Og and Sichon and Midyan etc and that is what they did when entering K’naan and through times of Melochim – all the wars waged by Bnei Yisroel were “weaponless”! Pure silliness.
I support Isreal, though not Jewish, I stand with Jews. That said, I’d offer some advice: having armed security is nice, but a pipe dream. Without ARMED congregants in the pews many more people in that Texas church would be dead or injured. Watch the video carefully, the perp gets off two shots the third shot by an armed congregant stops the slaughter (notice that the third shot is within seconds, a head shot that instantly disables the shooter). The lesson should be taken to heart, yes we’re forbidden to kill, but that killing doesn’t include self defense. There are people(s) on this Earth who don’t understand non-violence, they only understand superior force countering that violence. This is a judgment of those in this thread who advocate no guns or armed security. If a shooter wants a slaughter, a gun free zone is the logical choice: crooks don’t like victims who return fire. Altho I fully agree with and support the Monsey protectors, they’ll be more effective if they weren’t so obvious, they’ll be less a target. Someone mentioned “gun violence”, ain’t no such thing As inanimate objects, guns require human agency to operate. My pistol, on my nightstand, didn’t shoot anyone while I was sleeping. Until PEOPLE with evil intent are held accountable for their evil nothing improves. BTW, there are stats in public circulation showing that firearms are used between 500,000 to 3,000,000 times annually to stop crime, protect one’s home or family or merely deter criminals.
We do need something similar to the JDL, if not a resurgence of the original. Meir Kahane was right about a lot of things, and there were less anti Semitic attacks once people started fighting back. My husband and his cousins learned that quickly growing up in East NY in the 50’s and 60’s. Once they saw that the Jew with a kippah was going to fight back, they backed off a bit. No one else, especially those twittering politicians are going to do a thing to help us. If you don’t understand that there are times we have to fight for our rights, then what Chag have you been celebrating these past 8 days?
However, it is also imperative that we always strive to create Kiddush Hashem. When the very obviously Jewish names on the annual worst landlord list get released, it makes my cringe. Do you think African Americans living in sub human conditions because their Jewish landlords don’t see them as human beings are developing good feelings towards us? We are all humans created in the image of Hashem. Don’t complain about racism if you haven’t made the effort to keep it outside your door too.
It says הקל קול יעקב והידים ידי עשו, we are suppose to daven. We have no gun control, so they get higher powered guns.
Many of you have strong points but your missing a fundamental concept-
It’s called galus. Galus is a reality that we are all trying very hard these days to forget. We are hosts in a medinah of chessed and we shouldn’t forget that. Many of you quote sources from tanach. Those sources do not apply in the times of galus. Who are we kidding?! We are all missing emunah. Do we really think that armed guards are going to protect us?! You all give churches as examples but the secular world has a different rule book-think about the bracha EISAV was given-becharbecha tichyeh-with your sword you should live. Should I remind THAT WE ARE NOT LIKE THEM. Our power is not in the guf. Our power is not with swords or guns. Your all fools for trying to convince yourselves otherwise. Do you think that we can change what is supposed to happen with guns and swords?! Are you serious. Wow we have fallen so low. Rebono Shel Olam PLEASE BRING MOSHIACH so these warped people can see the emes!!!!
On of you brought up Chanuka as an example-not gonna work. Do you know that chazal say that during Chanukah the Maccabees went to war only because it was to fight for the KAVOD OF HAKADOSH BARUCH HU. Do you seriously think they did it for physical prowess. Here’s proof-during Purim, when Klal Yisroel were going to be physically destroyed they saved themselves through tefillah and teshuvah. It is only for the kavod of HASHEM that they went to war against the Greeks. Look in AL HANISSIM-you think their were armed with the guns that are available these days?! If only Israel would know that-they would change the name of their team (especially when they play on Shabbos). The irony.
I cant speak for Rav Chaim but it seems that when he said “if you want” he meant to say-if it makes you FEEL safer. No gadol ever said you must, but if the emunah isn’t strong than maybe an armed guard would make you feel safer. There is also a BIG difference between hiring a non-Jewish guard (which many places do) and arming ourselves.
Another argument-‘The jewish partisans in the 1940’s had a much higher survival rate than the standard jew in the street.’ oh really now?! Did you forget that we are above mazel and statistics?! Where are you getting this from?! How about the people that were in the camps for 6 years and survived-statistically they all should’ve died the first day.
U’shmor es nafshoisechem isn’t a joke-you bet it’s not. So let’s do it all the way. How about no smoking, drugs, drinking, sleeping 8 hours a night…..eating healthy……doing exercise. You can’t pick and choose. According to the Rambam this mitzvah doesn’t mean owning a gun.
Look should we sit back and ignore-ABSOLUTLY NOT! Should we try to get government officials to help us-yes! Should we intensify security-MAJORLY! Should be tone down a bit and stop stuffing our successes in front of everyone’s faces-YES! But to walk around armed like that-IS NOT OUR WAY!
DO IT! GO FOR IT! BUT-IF YOU THINK IT’S PROTECTING YOU-YOU ARE SO SADLY MISTAKEN AND WRONG!
“There are more armed bad guys than Jews. If we fight with weapons they’ll outgun us with bigger guns and much more people. Weaponry isn’t how Jews fight. We have Hashem only.”
For the past six months, the nasty, resident troll has spouted the lie that Jews are perfectly safe in NY/NJ. Now that reality has finally slapped him in the face, he paskens that we can’t defend ourselves. What an ostrich.
Silliest quote of the day: “Weaponry isn’t how Jews fight. We have Hashem only.” (by Joseph)-
Actually it’s the only emes around here. Sorry if your having a hard time swallowing it. Those wars you quote were commanded by HASHEM. Please stop using biblical sources!! Ugh this is getting pathetic-we have a different set of rules now-it’s Galus. Check the shalosh shevuos!
“Weaponry isn’t how Jews fight. We have Hashem only.” (by Joseph) We also have “Benjamins”, the gelt needed to hire weapons., plus the political connections to get government sponsored guards (as in Europe) . In halacha, weapons are considered kli Ish (male garments), hence the opinions about Parshas Zochor for women etc., but when under attack, a women can and must also don weapons.
Eliezer: It also says that Yaakov prepared for war/physical battle with Esav. Tefilah is one component, along with bribery and physical self defense. Never forget that. When the Jews fought Amalek in the Midbar, Moshe split up the people, half to fight, half to daven. During Purim, after the decree was rescinded, the Jews fought back and killed their persecutors. On Chanukah, we celebrate the miracle of oil, but also thank G-d for the victory in battle (rabim m’atim, etc.). Hashem expects us to use our Seichel and act appropriately, not give up our lives without a fight. If there is no alternative, like during the Holocaust, then at that point you accept the decree from G-d and walk into the fire. If there is an alternative, like escaping, or arming oneself, then you have both a religious (v’nishmartem Meod) and moral obligation to protect yourself, your family, your neighbors, and your community.
Further, you can have in mind, while shooting these attackers that you are being mekayem the mitzvah of M’chias Amalek. These anti-semites are certainly Amalekim (who are scattered into all the nations, since Sancherev. Not just German Nazis.). When Moshiach comes, the Jews will wipe out Magog/GoG and Amalek. They will do this with physical weapons, not just prayer. Hashem expects us to carry out the physical battles, which are mitzvahs. I think this entire scenario is Hashem’s way of getting us ready for the final physical altercations. By training ourselves to deal with these Golus anti-semites we will be ready to shoot down the Magog’ians and Amalekim during the times of redemption.
Shlomo 2
His being described as mentally ill has been called into question. What has been revealed is that he had recently converted to Islam and that he had assaulted a police horse in the past.
FYI just curious why werent these guys hassled by LEO for having 30 round magazines doesnt the entire NYS limit it to 10 rounds ? Kudos to these guys all Jews should have at least a handgun
Shlomo: Even if we had the ability to lock up every muslim convert with a history of “assaulting a police horse”, do you really think we will be safer? In many of these cases, the attack originates with sick individuals with long standing mental illness and they are engaging in a “copycat” assault they convince themselves is legitimized by some unknown grievances they have vaguely picked up in media coverage of other assaults or searching around the internet. We need to have armed and trained security at our shuls and mosdos, but even then, do we have the ability and resources to place an armed guard at every small heimese market or shtieblach in some rebbe’s basement??
Ask anyone who knows about guns, I’m pretty sure the magazines on those guns are illegal.
שמות כב, פסוק א: אם בא להרגך – השכם להורגו
בבלי, מסכת סנהדרין – דף עב , עמוד א
המאירי [סנהדרין שם, בשם מדרש תנחומא] מפרש שהתורה אמרה בפרשת פנחס: צרור את המדינים והכיתם אותם כי צוררים הם לכם
“צרור את המדינים (במדבר כה, יז): למה? כי צוררים הם לכם. מכאן אמרו חכמים: הבא להרגך, השכם להרגו”.
Comments claiming that self-defense is non-Jewish are simply ignorant of Torah!
Dear Joseph, Mr. Meir Kahane hyd, was an ordained Rabbi from the Mir. He died as a Kodosh. 100,000 attended his funeral in Jerusalem. You best do a self evaluation why you would talk about a Kadosh Yisrael in such a manner.
הבא להרגך – start davening? No! What does Torah tell you to do? השכם להרגו Even in times of golus, even with the Sholash Shevuos, Torah tells you השכם להרגו. It is obvious, yet misguided Yidden need “proof”.
As i am reading all these comments i was waiting for the obvious: הבה להרגך השקם להרגו. Thank u Rebbitzen G for pointing this out. Of course we MUST trust in Hshm and daven. That comes first. But as american citizens i think its fair to say that we can and we should use our second amendment rights to protect ourselves. Guns save lives!!! When we are armed we can protect ourselves from evil pple. The liberals want to convince us that gun control will be the answer. Why?? Because they want us to become reliant on them so that they can ultimately control us and then destroy us chas vshalom. Its all garbage. Garbage. The most heavily gun regulated cities in america have the highest rates of gun violence. Why?? Because taking away guns from law abiding citizens only enboldens bad guys to do more crime. Unfortunately evil pple will always exist. We NEED to arm ouselves. We need to send out a messege that we wont take this lying down. Of course its all from Hshm but at the same time we recognize that we can also prepare ourselves and gird ourselves with strength. And unfortunately to deny this is foolish and silly and naive.
The concept of dying Al Kiddush HaShem and earning a special title Hy”d is something we are trying to stop? HaShem decides who shall live and who shall die. Weapons or not – they will not help. Our hishtadlus is to STOP talking in shul and spread LOVE to every Yid! If we all abide to this and instill ourselves with Emunah and Bitochon, Hashem would never allow us to be harmed. We must remove ourselves from being involved with the affairs of the government and be simple Yidden, hiding and respecting all those who hate us – because those who hate us will actually not harm us – they are puppets doing HaShem’s Will! So… guns should not be the answer to fighting back because regardless of what happens, death will come about in other ways. Take Yerusholayim Bloody Highway where many Jews get killed. Could of been a terror attack? Should of been this? Should of been that?
in simple words, we must protect our children, our wives, husbands and community what ever it takes____best take advice and move to Israel__
the cause of this is israeli violence
Kodem Kol, I mamash condemn this shooting! First things first, we gotta make an Atzeres Teffilah! Then we can talk “Veiter”
The wild west was full of guns
Life expectancy was lower and
tension wasn’t less in the Wild West
The JDL did a lot of good for its founder Mr. Kahane when he was shot dead in New York, didn’t it.
Yechezkel8: Kahane was a racist and his organizations were designated as terrorist organizations both in the United States and EY. You are entitled to your views but the facts show to the contrary.
Assault rifles?! What is the headline writer talking about? These people do not have assault rifles! Those are pretty much impossible to get in this state, are very expensive, and of little use for security. These people have perfectly ordinary semi-automatic rifles, such as the ones millions of Americans use routinely for sports and for home defense. Don’t stir up sensation where there isn’t any.
Jews shouldn’t have fought the Nazis as Allied soldiers and partisons, huh? Shoitim. There’s NOTHING wrong al pi Torah to defend oneself, their family and there communities, period. Indeed, it is a great mitzvah to do so.
That is not a stira to try to find the messages Hashem is sending us that we are still in golus and still hated. And IMO Hashem is also sending messages that we should get off all non-Jewish platforms of social media like Instagram where women are putting pictures up of them getting their makeup put on, their wigs cut and all bapitzed up. Frum women put up posts where they sing and dance and their entire family news. Hello, it’s a public forum, a little busha!
The waves of anti-Semitism must fought fought on both, spiritual and physical levels. We can’t be successful in our physical hishtadlus if we don’t have Hashem on our side.
I don’t see anybody “armed to the teeth”.
I see a couple of guys each holding a long semi automatic weapon.
Armed to the teeth by my definition , they would need a few additional hand guns , grenades, maybe a rocket launcher…….use your imagination
To TorontoRav, you can continue to daven for the zchus of dying very soon al kiddush Hashem, having the title Kodosh before your name and HY”D after your name might be your tachlis, but the Torah says: V’chay Bahem. Living is far more valuable. But if you want to be mezakeh ess harabbim, Toronto could use more Kivrei Tzaddikim, so be “mosser nefesh” l’tovas haTzibur.
One should not have to violate the law, SAFE Act, to secure themselves, their family, and their friends
Shame on Cuomo for forcing people to be criminals when trying to use their rights of defense against those that would do harm