You know the expression, time heals all wounds? Or, forgive and forget? Well, sometimes that just doesn’t happen, try as you may.
When I was a young teenager, I was enrolled in a new Yeshiva high school that had just formed a couple of years prior to my enrolling. My young, recently married teacher was also our Rosh Yeshiva. The yeshiva was very resolute in establishing a reputation in being second to none, and would thus place burdens upon the students to perform at very high levels.
Yeshiva’s schedule was approximately from 7 am until 9 pm. I couldn’t learn at that level of intensity, so-needless to say-my minutes weren’t fully maximized. The vibes that I received from the faculty were that I was a liability to the institution. A pariah, if you will.
Perhaps what was most painful was that every time my parents received an update, they could never find anything nice to say about their son or his development. It stung. And worse, it deteriorated the relationship between me and my parents.
The hanhala had no idea of the personal struggles that I was going through that made ideal concentration on learning unfeasible. If they knew, perhaps they wouldn’t have judged.
Now, decades later, I am not angry at the Rosh Yeshiva, because at the time he was young and inexperienced. It was like he knew how to transmit information but had no training (presumably) or tools to care for souls. Thus, how can I hold a grudge? He was ill equipped. Granted.
Nonetheless, I truly wish he’d do a personal introspection and reckoning and one day surprise me with a phone call requesting forgiveness for times he inflicted anguish, perhaps being totally oblivious to it at the time.
Do any mechanchim really make that cheshbon hanefesh of upon whom they may have left a scar of pain, and reach out with humility and reconciliation?
I truly hope that mechanchim that read this will take my words to heart and see the awesome responsibility that you carry. It’s not easy having the toughest job on earth!
Name withheld upon request.
NOTE: The views expressed here are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of YWN.
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32 Responses
While the situation has improved since the years of this writer’s anguish, the problem still exists. What seems to be missed is that חנוך לנער על פי דרכו refers to the customization of the chinuch to be compatible with the talmid, not the style of the rebbe. Now that classes are large (yes, 25 is large), this is a challenge for anyone, and no one can fault the rebbe that is intimidated by this daunting task.
At the end of this all, discipline is a necessary part of the equation, and needs to be done in a manner in which it is effective FOR THE TALMID. Whether it pleases the rebbe is not relevant. Chinuch is not about the rebbe or teacher, but is ONLY about the talmid.
I assume (based on having held many long deep discussions with mechanchim) that they sometimes do have recollections of their past experiences with talmidim, and there is sometimes guilt and remorse. But there is another element that some of them have expressed. They are wondering whether the moved to ask mechilah is a denigration of the respect and honor they carry by virtue of their position. Asking mechilah is a seriously humbling experience, and someone of authority may feel humiliated by this. Yes, I have heard this enunciated clearly. It is sad that they take such a position. We are never in a holier state than we are on Yom Kippur when we recite viduy many times, not even saying it quietly. This is a position of strength and one that is truly praiseworthy.
To the writer:
That rebbe might not have done that cheshbon hanefesh. Or maybe he did, and failed to identify the situation you addressed. Or maybe hie did recognize it, but cannot humble himself to ask mechilah. Many possibilities exist. It is also far less than universal that we make cheshbon hanefesh as prescribed by our leaders of mussar. Who knows? If you were to ask my advice, I would direct you to work on shedding the resentments, and getting on with your life. Easier said than done, but there is far more control to make that happen than any of the alternatives.
Move on dude! Life’s short and sweet enjoy the present and the future.
If:
“NOTE: The views expressed here are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of YWN.”
then why write this?
” SEND IT TO US FOR REVIEW.”
It’s not easy having the toughest job on earth!
What a true statement!
If only the pay would fit the אחריות!
You write that it caused friction between you and your parent’s.
Would I be right to say that nowadays parent’s would just blame the school?
How can someone realize they did something wrong if they were oblivious to it?
I’m so sorry your maalos weren’t appreciated by your Rosh Yeshiva. I’m sorry your weren’t appreciated by your parents because of what your Rosh Yeshiva told them. You are, and always were, appreciated by the Ribbono Shel Oilum who created you the way you are.
It’s a pity when Rosh Yeshivas think they can create a yeshiva with the perfect specimens of which there are non on this Earth, including such Rosh Yeshivas who severely lack in kiddos and appreciation that everyone was created differently. There cannot be a yeshiva with only metziyunim and metziyunim are not perfect either. As long as every talmid tries to shteig in their own way, the what’s important and most importantly that’s what Hashem wants.
I’m not commenting on your case, but i want to bring out a few points.
1. I’m not so sure that part of the responsibility is also the psychological situation of the students. It’s a nice bonus, but the main issue is to teach yirat shamayim and torah.
2. Because there is many students involved it’s impossible to know exactly what’s good for every individual, so there is mistakes, it’s normal.
3. When rules are made for the institution it automatically means that it will not suit everyone, also at home when we do rules, many times they are not good, but we still do them, cause overall they help us with our plans etc.
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“It’s not easy having the toughest job on earth!”
I respectfully disagree with the last comment of the letter writer.
Being an educator may very well be the job that carries the most responsibility on Earth.
Many typical jobs will become “the toughest job on earth” for anyone inadequately trained for the job.
A properly trained and experienced educator who has been given the proper tools to do their job and still considers their job to be the toughest job on earth is definitely in the wrong profession.
As a bystander reading this letter I am wondering if you asked your parents if they made a cheshbon hanefesh for sending you to a yeshiva that was not meant for you?
You wrote “Perhaps what was most painful was that every time my parents received an update, they could never find anything nice to say about their son or his development. It stung. And worse, it deteriorated the relationship between me and my parents.” Did you approach your parents about switching yeshivos or did they just ignore the fact that you were floundering?
I am in chinuch leadership. First of all, thank you for your letter. Before I sat down to write, I made a cheshbon hanefesh.
I’m sure that your old rosh yeshiva has no idea how you are feeling. If he did, he would probably apologize.
People are human. We make mistakes. Daily.
In the early years of any mosad , leaders will often set policies that are what they perceive for the greater good. Then, talmidim who don’t conform become a threat, because others can learn. It’s very difficult to walk the tightrope and your rosh yeshiva was young and inexperienced.
It would be nice if he would apologize, but he probably never will, because he probably will never know. Try to forgive and move on. But again, thank you for reminding me to think back.
Ksui:
Point by point rebuttal.
1. Absolutely wrong. The yeshiva is loco parentis (on-site parental authority) while the child is there. They are fully responsible for the welfare of the child, his health, his safety, and his emotional health. No, they may not be required to be therapists or physicians any more than the biological parents are. But the Chazal of כאילו ילדו is NOT a statement of merit, but one of responsibility – as has been emphasized and repeated by the Gedolei Yisroel for many generations. The emotional health of the child is the responsibility of the yeshiva while the child is there. To participate in doing something damaging to the child’s emotional health is a severe form of malpractice on the part of the yeshiva. “Above all, do no harm.” The tasks of teaching yir’as Shomayim and Torah are impossible while damaging the emotional health of a child. I am beyond shocked you would suggest otherwise.
2. Rules in yeshivos are necessary evils. The daunting task is to insure that the rules assist the talmidim in the mission of helping them succeed. Once the rules do otherwise, there is a problem. The required individual attention can do wonders to help the yochid. Dismissing the fallout of individuals as normal is NOT an excuse to ignore the yeshiva whose rules result in damage. Nor do the yeshiva’s successes with the majority of talmidim exonerate them from responsibility for those that did not succeed. The Chazon Ish ZT”L stated clearly that the mission of creating yeshivos to address the needs of the tzibbur (transplanting Torah after the Holocaust) was accomplished, and that chinuch now needs to attend to every yochid.
3. Correct in noting that rules help the rule makers (parents, yeshivos). They are not designed to help the children. What is sad is that חנוך לנער על פי דרכו tells us that the mission of chinuch is not about our convenience or plans, but about the ultimate success of the child. When we get stubborn about compliance with rules, we are broaching the defiance of our ultimate mission. No, we cannot be rule free. But when we lose the focus, as your comment implies, we have a real problem. And all the direction of our Gedolei Yisroel about chinuch has been thus rejected. I suggest you examine any of the many seforim on chinuch that document the statements and directions from the Chasam Sofer, Rav Ovadia Yosef, Rav Shach, Nesivos Shalom, Chazon Ish, and others. I choose to listen to them and follow their guidance, not the stuff heard from frustrated menahalim and mechanchim who believe they have a different mission.
@The little I know
This happened to me many years ago, but I remember it clearly because it made a tremendous impression on me.
A high school Rebbe once threw me out of class for a really unfair reason. However, within the hour, he went looking for me in order to apologize. He said with genuine sincerity that he was wrong and he should not have kicked me out. He invited me back to class for the next session.
At the time, I wasn’t mature enough to realize it (I related it over laughingly, to my friends), but now, many years later, I see what a massive effect it had on my own relationship to others. Whether in learning, marriage or any other personal interaction, I find myself being relatively honest about my mistakes and owning up to them. I attribute this Middah, directly to that event.
Please tell the Rabbeim that you speak (and have spoken) to that the respect that I have for this Rebbe, is exponentially greater than it would have been, had he not apologized.
Hi. Not to belittle what you went through…but imagine the following…
You know the expression, time heals all wounds? Or, forgive and forget? Well, sometimes that just doesn’t happen, try as you may.
When Yankel was a young Rebbe, he was enrolled in a new Yeshiva high school that had just formed a couple of years prior to him being hired. A young, 9th grade Talmid was in his class. The yeshiva was very resolute in establishing a reputation in being second to none, and would thus place burdens upon the Rabbeim to perform at very high levels.
Yeshiva’s schedule was approximately from 7 am until 9 pm. The student couldn’t learn at that level of intensity, so the Rebbe simplified it. Needless to say-his minutes weren’t fully maximized and he lost his job. The vibes that he received from his students and their parents were that he was a liability to the institution. A pariah, if you will.
Perhaps what was most painful was that every time the Rosh Hayeshiva received an update, they could never find anything nice to say about the Rebbe. It stung. And worse, it deteriorated the relationship between him and his Rosh Hayeshiva.
The Talmid had no idea of the struggles that he was going through teaching unruly students that made ideal concentration on learning unfeasible. If they knew, perhaps they wouldn’t have judged.
Now, decades later, he is not angry at the Talmidim, because at the time they were young and inexperienced. It was like they knew how to absorb information but had no Derech Eretz. Thus, how can he hold a grudge? The student was ill equipped. Granted.
Nonetheless, he truly wishes the student will do a personal introspection and reckoning and one day surprise him with a phone call requesting forgiveness for times he inflicted anguish, perhaps being totally oblivious to it at the time.
Do any talmidim really make that cheshbon hanefesh of upon whom they may have left a scar of pain, and reach out with humility and reconciliation?
He truly hopes that Talmidim that read this will take his words to heart. It’s not easy having the toughest job on earth!
Name withheld upon request.
It goes both ways.
The problem is a rosh yeshiva who has no clue what he is doing other then the fact his rich shver stopped supporting him should not be allowed within 1000 ft of a bucher, these people do far more damage in any molester ever did
no nonsense-
IT DOES NOT GO BOTH WAYS!
Every Jewish Boy belongs in a Yeshiva (although this doesn’t mean that the Yeshiva he’s currently in is the correct Yeshiva for him.)
Not every Jewish man belongs in Chinuch!
BFG:
Completely agree. I have been privy to several similar situations, and the occasional rebbe who does the outreach you described becomes one of the successful and unforgettable ones. Teaching the midoh that when one behaves inappropriately, hurts others (physically or emotionally), or disciplines when it was not the best approach is priceless. Any talmid will learn more from what the rebbe practices than from what the rebbe says. Midos are learned primarily by example, and the academic aspect of that (such as mussar schmoozen or sifrei mussar) are a small supplement to that. If a rebbe has a mission to teach yir’as Shomayim, all the lectures and shiurim are a drop in the bucket compared to the role model he provides. The sifrei mussar actually state this.
The Besh”t noted that learning the sugya of “machlif poroh bachamor” is limud haTorah, a limitless virtue. Practicing it is greater. If we move from sugyos hashas to midos, the practice is the goal, and the limud just a tool to achieve it.
As you wait for your Rosh Yeshiva to come and beg your forgiveness, I am certain you also wait for your parents and all other authority figures in your life (your rov etc) to come crawling and begging mechilah. You do write that the relationship with your parents deteriorated, but you take no blame, instead you point to others.
All those authority figures from whom you received “vibes” – as you call it, that you are a liability, a disappointment, a pariah, if you will. All those that did not shower you with (undeserved) compliments and those that did not sing praises about you to your parents.
All those authority figures that (YOU think) did not know of your personal struggles and what you were going through, they must all line up and beg your forgiveness. They judged you on your actions but did not know that you had “excuses” and can justify your wrongdoings.
Hey buddy, we judge people by their actions. If someone acts like a beheima we assume he is one…and he is, even if he has personal struggles. Just because a beheima is going through stuff, does that make him less of a beheima?!
Rebbetzinetc.
I find your comments unkind. The writer mentions not being able to keep up scholastically. No mention of mis behavior.
I assume this took place quiet a few years ago. In those days parents were not so open to their child complaining about his work load etc.
The father was most probably invested in his son going to a top notch yeshiva even if he was not up to par.
Having said that there are unfortunately a lot of people who should not be in chinuch.
My best advice for the letter writer is to let go of his pain and resentment hard
as that will be because at this point he is hurting himself the most.
We should all remember that the only thing in life we have control over is our reaction.
Dr. Pepper…
You are correct. Thank you.
I agree wholeheartedly that ALL students belong in Yeshiva and not every person “in Chinuch” belongs there.
Sometimes, however, (a VERY small sometimes,) the fault (or some of it) belongs to the student.
Once again, thank you for your input.
Unfortunately there are many adults walking around today with PTSD from their Yeshiva years. This isn’t meant to bash rebbeim as I am sure they were the best available at the time considering the lack of resources back in the 60’s 70’s and 80’s but the main point I believe is that we need to recognize the traumatic effects and baggage that some of us are carrying and be open to getting help even 40 years later.
Rebbetzin G:
Your comment is condescending and offensive.
The writer described his experience, and the facts as reported addressed a yeshiva that did not fulfill its mandate of providing an emotionally safe space for him. Your defense for the yeshiva includes the following points – each either refutable or completely ridiculous.
* Taking no blame, pointing to others. Come on. He is describing the experience of his childhood. He shared that his behavior was acceptable, but that he could not keep up. Instead of working with him, trying to help him, they failed to care. The parents, as many others, have been guided to never take the child’s side, only the rebbe. That is absurd, and totally incorrect. Likewise, always taking the child’s side against the rebbe is absurd and incorrect. If the kid cannot have a proper relationship with the rebbe, at least he should not feel rejected by his parents. If you can spell your screen name, you should have enough intellect to grasp this.
* Undeserved compliments. You’re getting petty. No, undeserved compliments teach dishonesty. But it is a rare exception that a kid is so awful that nothing positive can be said. Besides, it is not about compliments. It is about showing the kid that you care and want to help him succeed. That should be the mission of the yeshiva, not its reputation or image.
* Excuses, justify wrongdoings. You’re kidding. None of that is reported by the writer, and making up these accusations is worse than the fabrications of the impeachment obsession congressmen. Struggling to keep up is not a wrongdoing; it’s a shortcoming. No, I’m not being picayune. I just refuse to lay accusations that are untrue. Perhaps this kid lacked the ability to keep up, and should have gone to another yeshiva. Your accusations fail to approach emes, and fail to absolve the yeshiva of the responsibility to make a sincere effort to work with their talmid.
* Beheima. You’ve stooped to a new low. Name calling, someone you don’t know, based on assumptions that are complete fabrication. Guess what? Even if you are suffering from your own issues that prompts you to release that emotional energy by writing derogatory comments, you are still fully responsible. The difference is that you have no clue about anything approaching fact, while the disparaging commentary you have concocted is totally baseless. Just because someone has an issue with a mechanech – that means he is a beheima?
You have some cheshbon hanefesh to do. I was horrified to read your comment. I don’t agree with defending incompetent mechanchim, but it’s one thing to speak about them defensively. You went on an unprovoked and lying attack. How dare you!
And another thing…stop being a victim! Enough with the feelings that “Oy poor me, I was wronged and someone needs to apologize to me”. It is…pathetic. I am not saying, “Man up”, but I am saying become a mentch and you won’t be spending a lifetime searching for the missing apologies.
@ the little I know.
I disagree. A yeshive is a place where the boys spent most of the day, so it makes sense that because they are boys with no seichel yet, the magid shiur should give them a bit of chizuk and should show interest in their private life etc.
But all this is just smart to do, not a must do, unless it’s a official yeshive for shwache bocurim.
If the magid shiur is a very warm person and he is capable he will be more Iinvolved with the bachurim if not not.
Bachurim that have problems must be lucky and have a warm magid shiur, not of them are, they should have go to a yeshive that is made for this.
Rules are made because they good in general, even they are not good for some individuals, so it means a few bachurim will suffer. It’s life. It’s yeshive.
Rebbetzin:
You have moved into a level of cruelty that is incompatible with being a Yid. What would you do if you were subjected to bizyonos? Would you “get over it”? I would hope so, but that doesn’t always happen, even with effort (as this writer expressed as having done). There is a contemporary “value” in today’s society that heralds victimhood. But that is a matter that has no basis in truth, just the delusion that one has been violated. The responsibility of the mechanech for the emotional health of the talmid is not imagined, and it is a rather central concern of the mechanech, as stated openly in the works of the Gedolei Yisroel. The failure to accomplish this might not be intentional or malicious, but it certainly fits the category of שוגג קרוב למזיד. That ought to appear in bold font in a true cheshbon hanefesh, and that is the point of the writer. Your offhand dismissal is not compatible with Torah value. As I noted before, where is your cheshbon hanefesh? How can you be heartless enough to blame the victim?
The little you know – The OP uses the euphemism “couldn’t keep up”, do you think it means merely that his academics (eg test grades) were less than stellar? It means he couldn’t keep up with the level of observance – he came up short on shmiras hamitzvos and yiras shamayim. And he is being a “model b’miktzas”! He is megaleh tefach u’mechasa tefachayim. Don’t be naive! This guy breached mitzvos and fulfilled isurrim b’hiddur l’chol hadayos.
When someone doesn’t “keep up” it is like “ha’bor rek – ain bo mayim” instead his days in yeshiva were filled with nechashim (nachash hakadmoni) v’akrabim.
I know this type. The one who blames the yeshiva for his failure in yiddishkeit. I ain’t buying.
And “the little you know”, basic principles: this guy has a teviya (claimant) against his rebbe/rosh yeshiva. The rebbe is assumed to be correct (we must be dan lkaf zchus) unless the plaintiff /claimant establishes his teviya. We MUST question the validity of unsubstantiated claims rather then blindly (naively) accepting them as toras Moshe. That is the PROPER approach. Instead you immediately side with the tovaya and incriminate the chekas kashrus of the rebbe. Shame on you!
Rebbetzin:
I repeat that your own cheshbon hanefesh is called into question. You have zero authority to direct your “dan lekaf zechus” to the rebbe and away from the talmid. Yes, ZERO. If you believe that, you have not entered the study of mussar altogether. I have not trashed the kashrus of the rebbe as you have done to the talmid.
There was no mention of aveiros chamuros that you have chosen to apply to the talmid. None. All you know is that he could not keep up with the academics, and wasted his time. Do you know that he was watching schmutz during gemora shiur? Or have you concocted that on your own? What a chutzpah! What reprehensible midos!
I am not accepting that the talmid is completely kosher. The rebbe has a responsibility to the talmid that goes beyond academics, and failed to carry out those obligations. A rebbe that deserves to remain in chinuch builds a talmid and does not destroy. No talmid will be perfect (and no rebbe will be perfect). Not recognizing one’s own shortcomings is a failure to oneself, and a deficiency in the cheshbon hanefesh. The difference here is that the talmid has no responsibility to the rebbe. But the rebbe has a responsibility to the talmid. What part of that don’t you grasp?
I see that your understanding of chinuch has no commonality with the direction and guidance of our Gedolei Yisroel. And you don’t exactly understand basic human psychology either.
The little person that knows very little:
“I am not accepting that the talmid is completely kosher.” So now you finally concede that this little “tzaddik” is “not completely kosher”.(In my kitchen, food that is “not completely kosher” is actually completely treif – does this point go over your head?
Yet, you continue to trash the Rebbe without any factual basis, pure speculation and conjecture: “The rebbe has a responsibility to the talmid that goes beyond academics, and failed to carry out those obligations.” While at the same time (toch kidei dibbur) claiming “I have not trashed the kashrus of the rebbe”. Does this trashing of a Rebbe and then denial come from “the study of mussar” or is it from “the direction and guidance of our Gedolei Yisroel”?
Why would you blame mussar or gedolei yisroel for your own trash and blatant azus ponim of a kofer hakol? WHen someone acts non-mentchlich, I call him a beheima (although I must apologize to the beheimos for associating him with them).
Rebbitzen:
Your rudeness in commenting seems to be your pattern. And I can also make a few diagnostic observations about your personality. But I won’t stoop to that here. I will respond to the remarks you seem to consider pointed attacks.
The writer openly states he was not the ideal student. Yet, nowhere did he report being a troublemaker or behaviorally problematic. That is what you bestowed on this writer, in complete violation of so many Divrei Chachomim. I note that this is not a perfect bochur, as he stated himself. This becomes a problem because every yeshiva exists for imperfect bochurim while the yeshiva wishes for perfection. And that responsibility to work with that falls on the hanhala. It is a moot point whether the yeshiva should have accepted him. But now that he is there, they have a primary responsibility to deal with it.
If one of your children was less than perfect, would you reject or repair? I noted earlier that כאילו ילדו is a responsibility, so stated the Gedolei Yisroel for many generations.
I am not trashing the rebbe. He is not perfect either, and that is not trashing. And his true strength would be detected by his ability to honest about things like this. The erudite pilpul might be truly impressive, but will not become his invitation to Olam Habah. And, yes, this comes directly from the study of mussar and direction and guidance of our Gedolei Yisroel.
Perhaps you can show me some proof that I produce trash, am an azus ponim, or a kofer hakol. I wait your evidence of any of these things. I could not detect even shadow traces in my cheshbon hanefesh. Until then I will IY”H sleep well, as I have been quite honest in my relationship with HKB”H. Disagreeing with the “Rebbetzin” does not qualify me for any of these statements.
Lastly, you stooped quite low, with no support for it, in calling the writer a beheimoh. Would you make such pronouncements about a biological child of yours who had issues? This mechaneh shem business has no place in Yiddishkeit. You tried that with me because we disagree, something not approved by any baalei mussar. And you do this to someone you don’t know with no supportive evidence. This is serious problematic behavior. Check the mirror. As I noted before, cheshbon hanefesh.