The following letter was submitted by a YWN reader regarding an incident which he called “racist attack” at LaGuardia Airport in NYC. It is a copy of a letter which was sent to the TSA, TALKLINE COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK, ANTI DEFAMATION LEAGUE, SENATOR CHARLES E. SCHUMMER, ASSEMBLYMAN DOV HIKIND, AIR CANADA – CUSTOMER RELATIONS, THE PORT AUTHORITY OF NY & NJ, AND A LAW FIRM.
April 22, 2008
In regards to: Flight AC707 @ LaGuardia Airport
Administrator
TSA 1
Transportation Security Administration
601 South 12th Street
Arlington, VA 22202-4220
SUBJECT: RACIST ATTACK AT SECURITY CHECKPOINT
Dear Sir / Madam
Any attempt to articulate my feelings of anguish and distress, and truthfully, disgust would ring hollow. But under the persuasion of my wife I have agreed to take five minutes of my time to write and inform you (hereinafter any reference to ‘you’ is in fact referring to the organization you work for, I appreciate that you personally have nothing to do with the incident I refer to) concerning the racist attack I was privy to just hours ago.
Yes you read right ‘Racist Attack’.
The manager on duty at the time of the attack was a Mr. Eli although his part in the incident was minor. Unfortunately the name of the employee herself I didn’t manage to get.
The story is relatively simple, one you have probably heard thousands of times. I had made a request of the employee to allow me to bring a bottle of water through the checkpoint the reasoning being quite straightforward. It was Passover, a time when there are even greater dietary restrictions for Jewish people. Every single food item must be specifically marked as “Kosher for Passover”, foodstuffs that are obviously only available at a Kosher grocery. I therefore requested, as a religious right, and to stop me literally from having to starve myself, that this bottle be let through.
At this point I wish to strongly advise that I am not complaining as such about my request being denied. I understand there is a law, and I equally understand that to change this law, I would have to contact my local senator and not the customer service section of your company.
Instead I wish to bring to your attention the abusive comments that were hurled at me in a most offensive and embarrassing way in the presence and earshot of staff and citizens.
Quote: “Hell, I don’t give a $#$# about your religion” exclaimed the female employee. Followed by “It’s always the same (with you people), this time of year” by the manager on duty.
I have nothing further to say. At this point I am again brought to tears by the horrific memory, and have at this point decided to investigate my legal options and rights.
Regards,
“NAME WITHELD UPON REQUEST”
Editors Note: Anyone wishing to complain to the TSA, can send an email to [email protected] or [email protected]
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66 Responses
Terrible Story reminds me again of Eisav Sonei et Yaakov.
Please do not get me wrong. I think what the employee said was horrible.
But, I would like to point out, that at LaGuardia Airport, and some others in the NY area, they do get a constant stream of frum Yidden who are sometimes obnoxious in the “extra favor” requests, and with an overall attitude that they should be above the rules, and be allowed all kinds of favors. We are also sometimes the cause of delays with our fumbling and bumbling with all the car seats, and baby equipment.
I have often been embarrassed myself by the actions and words of my fellow frum Yiddin.
Maybe, just maybe, if we acted more menshlech, we would not receive responses this bad.
Now, I am not saying this letter writer was wrong, or had an attitude. But he may have been the innocent one who received the backlash following all the others traveling before him this Yom Tov season.
So, though of course we should be treated with respect, and never subjected to the abuse shown above, we CAN also do our part.
We can try being polite instead of rude.
We can try smiling instead of showing an unhappy face.
We can try extra hard to follow the rules.
We can try friendly behavior instead of grouchy.
We can speak to these people as if we actually believe they are human, instead of talking to them like they are stray dogs.
We can also understand that the TSA employees must be extra careful with us. Many potential terrorist types, can easily disguise themselves as one of us, and some have already tried this. This may not be OUR fault, but we can understand that the TSA needs to be careful with us.
Also, besides the obvious necessary profiling, we tend to try to walk through with clothing, hats sheitlech, and every conceivable obstacle to their safety checks. I can’t think of any group who is harder to check than the frum people, but some of us are also the most impatient, and lacking in understanding.
I am sure it is only a small minority of us who behave like this, but, since we stand out so clearly from the rest, it seems like it is a trait of ours.
So, maybe if each of us can try to be extra specially nice to the goyim we deal with, we can improve matters at least a little.
I always found, that when you are unhappy with the way you are treated, the best attack is to kill them with kindness.
I know it can’t hurt. Can it?
Again, this traveler is missing the point. This situation is no different than the shoteh who didn’t sit down when asked by the flight attendant, the tipish who wore tefillin on the train, etc. Who exactly do you think you are to request a waiver of the security laws because you are thirsty? Here is a suggestion – instead of creating a chilull hashem and using yiddishkeit as your weapon, why don’t you drink before the flight??!! See, then you possibly won’t be thirsty on the flight. Goanis!! No?
to #3 – why do flights serve so many in-flight drinks? All should follow your advice to drink before the flight and starve until arrival.
Please do tell us how you were able to determine the duration of the flight, particularly when following all the rules to arrive at least an hour before boarding time, accounting for average flight delays at a busy time, and the distance from the arrival airport to the nearest destination with suitable beverage?
Granted that a domestic flight is a reasonable assumption.
#3,the point is not that he is using yiddishkeit as his weapon. He surly would have accepted a polite no from the officer. But to hurl insults at his religion? Lets turn the table around. Imagine if the traveller was black and the officer yelled racial slurs and degrading comments at him. Sharpten would have jumped on this case in a flash. But since he was an orthodox jew, an easy target, noone would flinch.
In other words you are condoning the actions of this officer. Have a little sympathy will you for a temimusdige yid. Don’t be such an appologist for the racist animals out there.
Very good point DM its nice to see a fellow jew that has a brain in his head. And Mr. Dreifer you are dead wrong.
Replies #2 and #3 said it all. Let us not always play the part of the poor victim. Our own behaviur has to be beyond reproach so that we don’t cause more problems. Our way of dressing and behaving is being imitated and used as a disguise by evil doers to hide behind to cause trouble.
Let me get this straight. This person was worried about being hungry/thirsty on his flight and the only way to handle it would be to bring a bottle of water on the plane? Why didn’t he bring an apple, or an orange, or grapes or celery to slake his thirst or satisfy his hunger instead of trying to pull the religion card? What religious right is there to bring water through the checkpoint?
I understand theres an inyan not to buy foodstuff over pesach but in a dire necessity (like in an airport and you don’t have water) I think it’s muttar
BTW #3 is missing the point flights are usually longer than 1 hour and sometimes even if he drinks Before Security he could still be thirsty afterwards
I dont think it was a nice thing for the employee to do but to call it an “attack” is overreacting – I dont even thing this employee is necessarily anti semitic – just probably had a long day – no need t go crazy on this one
In line with #3, most bottled water has a hashgachah. Bottled water doesn’t need a separate kosher l’Pesach Hashgachah.
The passenger could have bought another bottle of water with a Hashgachah INSIDE the security zone.
On the other hand, there is absolutely NO excuse for the alleged behavior of the TSA agents.
#3 he clearly stated that he understood that there are laws and he was not upset about that. It was about the comment.
The employee may have not been happy with this guys attitude but they must remain professional. As a member of the public service I have been kicked, smacked, spit at, you name it and I always remained calm. While I think too many people get offended way to often these days I don’t think this was such a case. Such comments should be with held no matter how the employee feels.
Perhaps this guy should write to the Water Board and make them check all his tap water for chometz and to put a stamp on his faucet. The TSA people are stressed as it is, and making an unreasonable request like that is asking for trouble. Since when does plain water need a hechsher? Next he will be asking the air carrier to check seats for shaatnez.
Maybe you can ask the manager to bring on a blow torch to kasher your seat. The manager is correct. As a frum person, I often cringe at the way us jews behave. The comments were not racist or anti religion. The comments were an outward manifestation of the animosity we have instilled in the outside world by constantly asking for accommodations.
To comment number 3, and any other anti Semitic Jews out there. I happen to personally know the gentleman to whom this story occurred and can assure you that; a) he is a most polite person and b)he attempts to be ‘mikadesh shem shomayim’ in his every deed. Had you read the letter properly you would notice that he wasn’t complaining against the reply as much as the ‘retort’ which was a clear breach of his rights and in fact our civil liberties as human beings and citizens of this great country.
You don’t always have to be persuaded by your wife, you know!
True, the TSA officer was a blasted idiot and was wrong. So, what are you going to do, kvetch? Just say right back to him, “Gee, that was nasty!” and move on with your life.
Have you ever been to a Chinese Auction or Kiddush in Brooklyn? The way one Jew treats another and treats the working staff, I start the evening an Oheiv Yisrael and leave an anti-semite. While it was unprofessional for this employee to say what she did, I can’t blame her all of for her feelings.
A “justajewishguy” if you personally know the guy that this happen to then please personally make sure he gets this message…
1. You can buy bottled water after the TSA check point at LGA
2. Water does not need to have a Passover symbol
3. Next time he fly’s (or on his return trip) check the water on the plane he might be surprised to see that the water is “ou-p” (even thow you dont need it!
I agree the security officers’ comments were disgusting. However, we are in Golus and we should try to minimze our asking for special favors when there are other alternatives. FYI, I flew today and the water both on the plane and at the kiosk in the airport had an OU with the passover “P”.
I commend the letter writer for showing restraint-I wouldve knocked the witches teeth out of her head and then gotten a good lawyer to get me off.
Dear Fellow Bloggers Shlita,
With all due respect to all of you. Does anyone understand the phrase “Akati Avdei Deachashveirosh Anan” really mean? It means as long as we are in Golus we better act as second class citizens. Is this traveller telling us a Chidush? We don’t know how they feel about us? We have to “Tcheppe” them to find out? We should be thankfull that we’re living in America “Malchus shel Chesed”. You want “rights”? Pray for Moshiach!
A Gutten Moied
No doubt the tsa employee was dead wrong.
But racist attack, c’mon.
People always try to pull shtick in the name of religion and it gets annoying.
We need to organize a handbook of behavior for Yidden in public.
This should include not getting out of your seat until the plane has fully stopped.
Etc etc.
The no liquids thing is stupid everyone know it but please leave religion out of it.
The reply was unprofessional at best, and yes you should be exploring your legal rights at this point- if this statment was made to an arab at ramadan, or a black person, the outrage from their community would be audible, shame that some members of our community don’t have that basic decency that our goyish neighbors do- ignore them- after consulting with the many lawyers in my family, some of your desired outcomes should include: at the very least those employees can be put on probation, a letter should be placed in their permenant file, and they should have to go through “sensitivity training” which is usually in line with the protocol for these organizations anyway, when a complaint like this is filed appropriately. Hatzlacha.
to #6, i wouldnt say #3 is dead wrong. There is some emes to what he is saying. I hope your not blind, but open your eyes and look around. We jews brought this upon ourselves. i am not defending this woman but between me and you, with all the jews flying somewhere for pesach you can imagine how many ridiculous requests and things she had to deal with.
Hi Everyone,
I’m a TSA screener at a Category I airport. (Not quite the size of a La Guardia/O’Hare/etc. airport, those are Cat X, but I have worked at them)
I am going to be very frank. This whole episode is very tragic. Tragic in the sense that it could have been avoided from the beginning.
Please do understand that seldom few screeners actually know a single thing about halachos of Pesach or kashruth or anything, and even fewer than that care.
With that in mind, when it comes to special cases regarding these manners: DO NOT TALK TO A SCREENER ABOUT ANYTHING REGARDING DECISION MAKING. YOU WILL GET BURNED DOING THIS. ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY REQUEST TO TALK TO A SUPERVISOR OR SECURITY MANAGER. DO SO CALMLY AND KINDLY. DO NOT MAKE DEMANDS!
Let me repeat this.
DO NOT TALK TO A SCREENER ABOUT ANYTHING REGARDING DECISION MAKING.
Screeners at these large airports see a constant flow of people and have only one goal: screen as quickly and effectively as possible. The name of the game is to try to get everyone in and out of the checkpoint as quickly as possible. People get very angry very quickly if ANYTHING causes them any delay, which will make them complain loudly, because people are very selfish, impatient, and arrogant.
Because of this, even the nicest, most positive screener can not avoid many confrontations in a single day. It is an inevitability. This is very stressful. Do not expect any sort of sympathy or kindness from the average TSA officer.
So do the screener a favor and get him out of the picture. Ask to see his supervisor or manager or a lead screener RIGHT AWAY, these people are paid to deal with problems even if they don’t want to.
I am sure the passenger in question was not the most patient and calm during this ordeal, and attitude is everything when dealing with a Transportation Security Officer. I can tell you from personal experience that a person’s tone is the real decider in their situation’s outcome.
When you talk to the supervisor, do not address them rudely or expect them to know anything about anything. Simply explain that due to the passover holiday, your dietary laws have become very restrictive and you are only allowed the bottled water you have. Then ask them if they would allow you to take it aboard, with full understanding that they will be opened and tested. The name of this test is a Liquid Strip Test I do believe. If you ask them to use a Liquid Test Strip on the bottle they will most likely know what you are talking about, unless they are a trainee.
Please keep in mind that you will absolutely not be able to have more than one bottle if any at all. I am telling you right now that you would be very lucky to be allowed even one bottle so if you can’t bring the six pack of kosher l’pesach waterbottles, don’t be surprised shocked or angry.
Making a scene and threatening lawsuits is absolutely ridiculous. This is a total chillul hashem.
Please consult http://www.tsa.gov to familiarize yourselves with the rules. Plan ahead. Contact the TSA either at the website or call the airport. You can actually call and talk to the TSA at your airport.
I know from experience that when groups with special needs, such as schools for the handicapped, plan to travel and they are passing through our airport they call ahead and let us know what’s going on so we can prepare ourselves to deal with special circumstances.
I hate to say it but aside from the comments of the employees the fault lies with you.
Threatening lawsuits only makes you look even worse. Roll with the punches. Not everyone likes Jewish people. You should know that by now. Suing someone isn’t going to change anything, except for the worse. Many of these large airport screeners are the lowest common denominator, so don’t expect them to be anything other than that. Just deal with it.
B”H I have never had to deal with any anti-semitism in the workplace or from a passenger. In fact, I am valued for my ability to act as a liaison between the TSA and frum passengers to ensure that security procedures are being followed while remaining extremely sensitive to the needs of the frum.
With all of this in mind, I hope everyone has a good and safe Chol Hamoed and Yom Tovim.
Amen to #3…To all the Charedi frumaks who want to fly on yuntev and simultaneously shirk TSA rules, it would be better not to make a chilul Hashem in golus. It’s irrelevant how nice and polite this person is. It is also irrelevant how mean the goy was. If you are going to force the goy to accept your frumkeit for your convenience, either drive, take a bus/train or stay home!
To #8: I could not agree with you more. Why did this person not bring anything else to eat, why does it only have to be that bottle of water and nothing else.
To #15: While you might know who he is, it does not change the fact that this whole thing could have been avoided, like everyone is saying and just bought a bottle of water on the other side, water does not need any special hechsher over Pesach. (As a matter a fact, my Rov told me that in my office (where jews & non jews work together I might add) I am allowed to take a drink from the water cooler this week, he said all I should do is move mu cup a little lower from the spout.)
So its obvious, that it is not a problem to drink any type of water and that no special hechsher is needed. So like it has been stated above, had he not tried to go above the law so too speak (even though he may be a nice guy and no one is saying otherwise) and just bought other food or water after the checkpoint, we would not be discussing this topic here at all
Drink away, a gut moed and chag sameach!
last I checked, most major kashrus organizations allow bottled water w/o hasgocha for pesach. why not buy it after the checkpoint? Or bing an empty bottle. Letting him through with a prohibited item would of cost people their jobs. Next time, read the FEDRAL regulations before heading to the airport. This was not pikuach nefesh, and I’m sure they had to put up with a lot of other people who may not of been as mild mannered.
‘I dont give a BLANK about your religion’
For heaven’s sakes isnt America the LAND OF THE FREE;?? Isnt it everyone’s right to practice their religion and shouldnt it be respected by higher authority?
These comments are mind boggling; Why does everyone have to assume that the guy was impolite when its so obvious that the manager was so nasty?? If there would have been a request by a Non Jewish passenger on behalf of a baby or an elderly individual, I’m wondering if the reaction on this board would have been the same.
3, your post takes first prize for the most pathetic ever!
why in the world couldnt you buy a bottle at duty free
#15- it doesn’t matter whether he’s a nice person. i mean it’s a positive thing, but here even though the officer/mgr was completely wrong in their rude remarks, did your friend ask a Rav about the issue of not having what to drink on the plane? yes, it’s a safety/health issue- flying to eretz yisrael (for ex) without drinking can be a serious health issue. but did a Rav pasken that he MUST take bottled water onto the plane and not drink what they give him?
I also fear, like those above, that even if there was courtesy, the basic request is outlandish (and unfortunately this DOES happen too often)- this ISN’T a case of a Jewish woman asking to be checked in a private room so she doesnt have to reveal her hair to public- this is a TSA policy- how can he expect the officer to yield to this need? and the real question is should he even expect it! in these cases I would definitely ask a Rav especially because of the chilul Hashem and eivah it causes, all because of the the shmeck of a doubt of chametz being in the water bottle on the plane.
regardless of this person’s experience and results, we each need to learn from this situation and be careful about what we’re requesting,whether it’s ABSOLUTELY necessary (even if that means ASKING A RAV 1st), and if so, what would be the BEST way to go about it.
May we each be blessed with the clarity and foresight to prevent such situations from ocurring and may we only serve as positive examples of Judaism and its adherents.
Moadim L’Simcha.
——————————————————————————–
Maybe you can ask the manager to bring on a blow torch to kasher your seat. The manager is correct. As a frum person, I often cringe at the way we Jews behave. The comments were not racist or anti religion. The comments were an outward manifestation of the animosity we have instilled in the outside world by constantly asking for extra accommodations. ——————————————————————————–
In line with #3, most bottled water has a hashgachah. Bottled water doesn’t need a separate kosher l’Pesach Hashgachah.
The passenger could have bought another bottle of water with a Hashgachah INSIDE the security zone.
On the other hand, there is absolutely NO excuse for the alleged behavior of the TSA agents. We can try being polite instead of rude.
We can try smiling instead of showing an unhappy face.
We can try extra hard to follow the rules.
We can try friendly behavior instead of grouchy.
We can speak to these people as if we actually believe they are human, instead of talking to them like they are stray dogs.
Let’s not always cry’ victim’ any time someone seemingly wrongs us. The agent was mean and behaved wrongly,but our fellow Yid must learn some anivus and stop the ga’avo-dig behaviour. We can be a very chutzpadig people sometimes.
While it may be true that Jewish travelers have many requests, this does not excuse the racist outburst and tirade of this farshtunkena lady. It is simply not acceptable and she deserves a substantial consequence more than just a mere reprimand. I hope her boss throws the book at her. To the victim of this oral abuse I suggest that you speak to a lawyer about the possibilities of a lawsuit.
Yes what the officer said was very wrong.
But look at the attitude of the letter writer. Since when does water need to be kosher let alone kosher for Pesach? Its a nice perk that some water companies pay for a kosher symbol but, ask your rabbi and see if you actually need it. Ask if you need it for tap water.
The letter writer talks about taking a bottled water through security as a “religious right.” He writes that he needed this bottle to “stop me literally from having to starve myself.” It is melodramatic. It is wrong.
He knew there was a rule. He knew he could get a $3 bottle of water on the other side. And if he couldn’t do that there are bathrooms with sinks; not ideal but better then ‘starving oneself.’ Pesach changed nothing substantial.
I am disgusted by the sinas chinam displayed in certain comments.
During the Holocaust, many people smuggled religious articles, such as a siddur or tefillin, into the camps. Some were most likely caught and killed. Do you say they are to blame and they should not have been so stubborn to their religion? The Germans warned them, so the Germans did nothing wrong by killing the criminal? After all, it was the law!
It is very sad that Yiddin more readily side with an obnoxious goyish beast rather than a fellow Jew, regardless of the specifics of what happened.
Seeing as bottled water is made both carbonated and still on the same machine, and nearly all carbon dioxide used is a by product from beer and chometz, all bottled water needs a hechsher for Pesach.
@15 — While I do not doubt the discretion your friend exercised at the airport, there is a principle in the secular of KISS — Keep it simple. Who are we to say the TSA employees are racist? It was certainly a racist and inappropriate comment, but what do we know of these people circumstances. I agree with #10 — prhaps they were on an extra long shift. Perhaps other people had been less then kind to them.
Airplane flights are not a right, they are a privilege — the laws and rules regarding them are well known and documented. It is up to us as to ensure our needs are met within the context of those rules. When I transit security, I have as little with me as possible beyond the clothes on my back — generally my laptop computer (if that), cell phone, siddur, tallis, teffilin, keys, wallet, and an EMPTY water bottle. I am invariably through quickly and quietly.
The TSA scanner’s attitude and response was unprofessional, and borders on racist, but would she be any less racist had the statement been “I’m sorry sir, but I do not have leeway for a religious exemption”. No remains no.
[And to what extent is the scanner’s sex relevant here?]
Did the person who wrote this letter “sign” it “NAME WITHHELD UPON REQUEST”?
It may be that this person included his or her name in the original letter and this was left out in this post. However, if they did not include this information, then I think that this was a mistake.
One must be willing to stand behind what one writes, and the way to do this is to include one’s name and other identifying information.
Professor Yitzchok Levine
K 112
Department of Mathematical Sciences
Stevens Institute of Technology
Hoboken, NJ 07030
201-216-5425
201-216-8321 (FAX)
[email protected]
http://personal.stevens.edu/~llevine/
Flying eruv pesach was not an easy picnic.
There were a few frum people who came a few minutes before the gate was closing and these people were cutting into the line that was boarding and caused a tremendous chilul hashem.
The goyim were all asking these people to get in the back of the line and these people refused.
It would be nice if rabonim could talk about mentchlichkeit and geneivah for a change instead of the other stupidity that goes on in daily life.
Chilul hashem topics is a MUST.
Chilul hashem can also be caused from one yid to another and is a very misunderstood subject. many people think that chilul hashem is only in front of goyim.
Why is it that we just can’t be patient?
Making a kiddush hashem can cause us great wonders in our life even year later just from causing one great kiddush hashem so lets think how we act in front of others ALL THE TIME and lets DO THE RIGHT THING.
WATER DOES NEED A HASHGOCHA TODAY. This has become a complicated issue. Call the OU and they will explain why the water needs hashgocha.
What WATER DOES NOT NEED is a P for passover.
Years ago having a kosher symbol on water was just marketing and the companies wanted it because consumers demanded it. Consumers have no inkling on what goes on behind the scenes with any food product let alone water.
Again, WATER DOES NEED CERTIFICATION TODAY. For more info call the OU or your “trusting” hashgocha agency.
THANK YOU.
dear moderator…isnt the heading “racist attack” overdramatized… “attack” usually denotes physical asult (assault, for those who are particular of spelling, grammer..) ..didnt read in article as such
While it may be true that Jews have many requests, this kind of behaviour is totally unacceptable. This farshtunkena woman deserves to be fired for her openly racist tirade. Could you imagine her saying this kind of garbage to people of a different religion for their practices? That would never happen because they know they would be fired for that. To the victim of this abuse I strongly urge you to take a lawsuit for one reason. You are going to win, go for it. You deserve the compensation and it will send a very strong message to other potential abusers.
#30,
Land of the free does not give you the right to bypass laws, the employe can get fired for racist comments but its free speech.. she didnt discriminate.
#37 what absolute rubbish.. did ANYONE force this guy to fly ? NO.. he used bechira chofshis and went to the airport..
I sincerely hope your not recommending frum yidden “break the law”
I will bet you serious cash that stores past the gate have bottled water with a hechsher.
Is it just me, or dothe rest of us fast for 25 hours on tish b’av and yom kipur..
And yes I agree… jews these days make the BIGGEST chilul hashem.. both the parents and the kids and the kids are really behaimos!
If I made the slightest chilul hashem growing up.. I got such a smack in the face…
And if I was the least bit disrespectful to a adult, it was soap in the mouth for me.
Its pirkey avos which says “hevai mikabel es kol haadam biseyver panim yafeh”
We learn from that, the chiyuv in being polite and such..
Learn to say “please” and “thank you” and if your kids make a chilul hashem… I strongly recommend you petch and zetz..
#40 – your comment is dead on. Yasher Koach.
#37 – are you serious? Demanding to bring bottled water on a flight=smuggling tashmishei kedusha during the Holocaust? Also, would you ever agree that one’s actions are considered a chillul hashem, or must we always side with the Yid in every case? And if not, it is sinas chinam? The fifth chelek of shulchan aruch applies in this case (SECHEL!!). Look it up.
#30 – thanks for the award. Whew, I have so many people to thank, but time is short, so I’ll limit the grateful remarks! I’d like to thank my parents for instilling in me some semblance of sechel and derech eretz. I’d also like to thank my rebbeim for teaching me how to behave and act when unfortunately, one is not surrounded by the daled koslei beis hamedrash. Thank you!
#15 – Maybe you should inform the flyer that he has no “special” civil liberties, notwithstanding that he is a frum yid. It is a tribute to this country that we are made to feel so comfortable that we may request a religious accomodation without fear of our lives. Of course, without using your “kup,” one can be led to believe, like you do, that this is a civil liberty and right. And if I don’t agree, I’m an anti-semite. Oh well. I’ve been called worse.
#4 – does the duration of the flight really matter? I only made a suggestion to this poor helpless yiddle, who, nebach couldn’t think of any other option than to ask for an exemption due to his religiuos right. But you are right, there was no other way out, since he would otherwise starve, as he put it. Oy.
#5 and #6 – Yes let’s turn the table around shall we. You are probably correct – if this happended to an African American, Sharpton would be all over this. Unlike this yiddle’s reaction…Oh, wait a minute! Hasn’t he wrote to just about everyone he could think of – TSA, TALKLINE COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK, ANTI DEFAMATION LEAGUE, SENATOR CHARLES E. SCHUMMER, ASSEMBLYMAN DOV HIKIND, AIR CANADA – CUSTOMER RELATIONS, THE PORT AUTHORITY OF NY & NJ, AND A LAW FIRM? So, isn’t he also looking to garner publicity for this incident? Just like Sharpton?
Yasher Koach to all for a very interesting dialogue on this issue. I believe at the very least that it warrants further discussion. Gut Moed.
D. Reifer
If no 42 reads no 38 they mill see water does need a hechsher for Pesach, chometx is on the same filler.
#27 FRUMSCREENER offers the best advice so far. However, the TSA employee’s behavior may be understandable but is unacceptable. As the TSA is a federal agency and the screener’s federal employees, Therefore, it was in effect the Federal Government making these remarks. Though there is a rational basis i.e. national security for the ban on liquids that may not be enough to overcome a challenge based on the anti-liquid policy having a disparate impact on Orthodox Jews’ right to interstate travel, a fundamental right under the U.S. Constitution (this may not apply to the present case as it traversed an international border)
The employee’s statements are particularly distressing as they reflect a long standing or accumulated animus thereby become a form of profiling which is absolutely contrary to TSA/DHS policies.
Clearly, to avoid the 42 USC 1983 claim the TSA is looking at from this passenger in the future lies in screeners receiving cultural sensitivity training as well as clearer policies between the airlines, TSA and other appropriate agencies develop and formulate guidelines regarding the accommodation of religious observance.
Chag Kosher V’Sameach
Bernard S.Antin Esq.
Southfield, MI
After reading all of the above comments I am left amazed at how many of you can criticize a frum ben torah, without even knowing who he is! Do we not have a chiyuv of dan lecaf zechus? We must assume that he is, as one poster has testified, a true gentle, kind, yorei shomyaim, frum person. Now lets get to the facts. Being that This traveller was flying with Air Canada it is extremely important to note. On all Air Canadas domestic (USA and Canada) flights, the only water that is offered to economy class customers, is tap water, which is served from a reusable plastic pitcher. The pitcher was no doubt cleaned amongst other Keilim, making the water ossur to drink on Pessach. Many writers suggested not drinking untill he lands. Anyone who has flown on Air Canada, especially from LGA knows all to well that a 1 and half journey can easily turn into a 4 or 5 hour plus trip. If you dear readers can manage that amount of time without water then hurray for you, but according to airline safety guidelines, it is very important for the health of all travellers to drink lots of water during their trip. (We should also be dan lecaf zechus that this traveller had a medical condition which required him to drink lots of water throughout the day). Lastly many of you suggested the writer just buy a new drink with a kosher for passover label after security. I can not say for cetain, but last time I went looking for a bottle of water at the LGA terminal shops, all they had for sale was Dasani bottled water. Being that
dasani is not bottled at source, does not have a kosher for passover hechsher, and that it goes through a filtering system, We should assume the above mentioned traveller did not want to take a risk and consume that water.
To poster number 3, you tipshus causes more chilul hashem then it prevents.
Not getting into whether it was right or wrong to send the letter, it was definitly justified.
I believe you are being overly sensitive and exhibit a lack of understanding. These airline security people make minimum wage and it is quite a thankless job and tense job. They can lose their jobs by violating rules. Your “special needs”, from their standpoint, is neeldess added work, tension and frustration.
You have to understand, just imagine if thousands or even only hundreds of frum people travelling on Pesach wanted a special exception it will cause chaos in the system. Maybe a terrorist dressed as a frum person will carry explosive materials in a Kosher LePesach bottle.
There is a purpose for these rules- to protect us, which must be respected.
Rather than causing a ruckus at the airport with low level employees, it would have been much wiser to contact the airline in advance to discuss options for providing for your needs on board.
1. when i travel overseas (sometimes on domestic, too) i take an empty soda bottle, and fill it at a water fountain past the checkpoint (disclaimer, i almost always fly newark, so no problem with copepods) so i’ll have enough water for the flight and connections, itself (in case the stewardesses are too lazy / uncooperative to bring me water or other drink. hydration is important on a long flight, as is walking around every now and then, for health reasons.
2. bottled water that has added co2 NEEDS hashgacha for pesach, because the source of co2 (the bubbles) is (usually) derived from chometz yeast. (though somehow the o-u gives hashgacha to aspartame that has the same problem.)
3. the jerque who davened on the plane should be thrown out of his local shul, after he arrives home.
4. i have friends/clients who are trying for years to get a kosher food concession at some airports, and the problem is (besides the claim that we are always looking for a “deal”) that they are looking at volume, not convenience, and face it — we dont have the volume, compared to liquor, and big name franchises, which is what they want. let alone milchig in the morning, meat at night, etc. and i’m not talimng about different hashgachas, etc, which they know about — dont think not. (actually, i’m surprised the airlines put up with it — hashgachas, i mean)
disclaimer — flight attendants — you are not allowed tro say stewardess.
just stick the water into your pocket not the x-ray and they wont find it
bottled water needs hashgacha because bottlers usually run grape juice through the same bottling lines.
(though its a cold process, and we can assume “rov” that this bottle is not the first of the production, but for some reason, my argument is not accepted (except that the mashgiach uses this rationalization to exclude the first few bottles, or spill out the first few quantity.)
Yes this is a very embarrasing incident, I really feel bad for you.
But a law suit?! Grow up.
This will be just more frum food for the NY Post.
# 40 Prof Livine 9 line signature He’s a proud Proff. 9 lines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! take a lesson from the Prof. Dont hide behind a mask.Yes he sighned his real name, not in 9 lines though!!! Prof
some people (including some members of my family) do not drink tap water or even buy water on pesach. all their bottled water is purchased before pesach. the reasoning for this is that chometz is not botul b’shishim on pesach & you never know what is in the water supply. The same premised is used by people who do not buy eggs or dairy on pesach. you don’t have to agree with this chumra, but kindly respect it. not everyone is like you & pressurized cabins are dehydrating. you also have no clue how long the flight was or how long before the flight he checked in. kindly take the time to engage your brain & think before opening your mouth to criticize. just b/c you eat kosher l’pesach chometz doesn’t mean other people hold by this.
i don’t see anything racist or anti-semitic in agent’s comments. she only said she does not care for religion, without mentioning “jew” or “judaism”. i would imagine she could say the same thing to a kristian – security does not care about religion. so insensitive – yes. anti-semitic and racist – no. but i would imagine good lawyer in our suit crazed society can make something out of it.
When I read this story, I realized that this is one of those tragic cases of “He said-she said”. Each side, the frum side and the goyish side, should be given the benefit of the doubt. On one hand, you have the irate TSA employees who have probably been hassled with numerous liquid containers without a religious exemption to fall back on, and on the other, the irate passenger who has nothing to eat and wants a bottle of water that they know is for sure ok to eat. Whether the bottle needs a hechsher or not is besides the point. I am not going to be bashed or belittled based on where I am holding religiously.
I have had my fair share of disgruntle employees. That being said, I have never been subjected to horrific treatment when I am “understanding of the laws” and behave in the same polite manner as the author of this letter.
I decided that I was going to refrain from commenting, with the hope that the parties involved can clear up this huge mess. After all, I wasn’t there, so who am I to pass judgment?
That was until I read # 37’s post.
For you to make such comparisons during Pesach, a time where we celebrate our freedom from slavery and the birth of our nation, has literally left me speechless. Did you just not use your brain when you callously compared this woman’s idiotic comment to the horrific actions of the Nazi’s?
I’m sorry, I am looking for the part of the letter where it states that she took all of the passenger’s belongings, separated him from his family, cut his hair, tattooed his arm, forced him to work hard labor, and sent him to the most horrible of places to meet his Creator. I must of missed it, please send me your version.
And then you call the employee an “obnoxious goyish beast”. You know, there was a whole nation of people that thought we Jews were “goys” and “beasts”. How you are able to compare Nazi dictatorship to a law that is geared to protect us from another group of people who are STILL TRYING TO ANNIHILATE US is truly remarkable.
Clearly when you wrote the words “Sinas chinam” you meant it for the words in YOUR post.
With chillul Hashems occurring daily, we frum yidden having to bear witness to the horrible actions and behavior of our fellow Jews who present themselves as living a Torah way of life, it is no wonder that we may tend to side with the goys.
# 57: I think your “just b/c you eat kosher l’pesach chometz doesn’t mean other people hold by this” comment is on the same horrific level as # 37 view of that the TSA agent is as horrible as a Nazi.
“just b/c you eat kosher l’pesach chometz doesn’t mean other people hold by this”
Comment by frumnurse — April 24, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
UNBELIEVABLE. SHAME ON YOU
Since when does plain water need a hechsher? Next he will be asking the air carrier to check seats for shaatnez.Comment by chassi
TO YOU CHASSI YOU ARE EXTREMELY SARCASTIC!!LETS ALL BE NICE!! MAYBE IT’S BEYOND YOU TO BE NICE BUT BE NICE? MAYBE? EFSER?! ANYWAYS A GUTTEN MOIAD
Mr. Reifer,
My pleasure:))))
you say ‘Here is a suggestion – instead of creating a chilull hashem and using yiddishkeit as your weapon, why don’t you drink before the flight??!! See, then you possibly won’t be thirsty on the flight. Goanis!! No?’
Eh, umm,,,,,Who gets the credit for teaching you that its not important to be dan your fellow Jew ‘Lecaff Zechus’?????
Is there a possibility that this passenger is not well and needs fluid more frequently? Bh I have no health problems but as much as I drink, the second I get onto a plane I become thirsty again,
Did it ever occur to you that this man is not aware that they sell water with a Hechser past the
security counter or was too pressured at the moment to think about it?
Oh , and dont you think labelling this incident as a CHILLUL HASHEM is abit of a stretch??? At the most, you can say its a bit too demanding but it CERTAINLY doesnt disgrace the Ribono Shel Oilom!!!!
to all of you who feel you are perfect and have perfect behavior, shame shame on all of you. klal yisrael needs a maletz yosher and not katrugim. who do you think you are to go ahead and knock the behavior of klal yisrael, you should take out the sefer chafetz chaim and learn the halachos. you were not there and therefore have no right to judge. i’ve traveled with twins alone and the tsa was very cosiderate regarding taking along to drink, there is nothing wrong with asking nicely- yes, yes or no, no. there was no reason for the comment of the tsa officer, i do feel that it was a horrible comment and a racist comment.
This is an ongoing problem.
I recently flew out of JFK and was stopped at security for having a yogurt in my bag ( I was not aware this was not allowed as I had never been stopped before it), I asked the employee to allow me to quickly eat, and she refused saying I would have to go back out (and wait on a 1/2 line again! ), at that point she just tossed is in the trash. I said “YOU cant do that” she began yelling at me that she “doesnt need permission to do anything” .
She was nasty/inappropriate/ and simply stupid. I’m glad that MY yogurt is a “Serious” security threat.
P.S. her supervisor, was equally nasty about the whole situation.
to #67 — my mother’s aunt went back to hungary for a couple of years from “palestine” in the 1930’s. when she came back to “palestine” she knew to bring a crate of apples. sure enough, the british confiscated it, and of course had a treat of hard to get apples that night.
the truth, my father used to overly complain when he didnt get his kosher meals on a plane in the old days (when they served meals). but you have to suffer for yiddishkeit!
the solution — search only those we KNOW are a threat — the muslims. but we’re (the us) are too screwed up to do it that way. the old elal (and domestic flight security in israel) way.
Granted this was not handled correctly from all parties but I would like to see TSA investigate this and let the screener know that they CANNOT talk like this to anyone. As it is when you approach the magnetometers the TSA people are busy yelling at you at the top of their lungs diff instructions like shoes off and boarding passes out etc. I sometimes feel as it I am CHV about to board a one way train in Germany.
I was once flying from an out of the way location in MT to NY and I thought I would have no problem bringing 2 small containers of cottage cheese with me but TSA claimed it was a liquid. WHAT A CROCK!
Kitzur a mayseh, they should really be given training on how to talk to people and not AT people.
Once in a while it is good to be reminded what the real face of Eisav looks like. American Jews live in relative peace and although there are occasional incidents, as a whole they can practice how they like.
Let us not get too comfortable in Eisav’s territory! Our place ultimately is in Eretz Yisroel with Moshiach as our King.
Let us be zocheh bekarov beyomeinu!