A Mesivta in Lakewood might have broken world records on Wednesday, after dozens of Bochurim were suspended. The boys were given the boot because they chose to attend the Levaya of the Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL in Boro Park on Tuesday.
According to a report by TLS, the Hanhala reportedly told the Bochurim to stay in Yeshiva and learn, rather than travel to New York for the Levaya, but a large group decided to do otherwise. Many of the Bochurim in this Mesivta are from a Chassidish background, and really wanted to attend this Levaya.
On Wednesday, approximately 50 boys were told not to come back to Yeshiva.
Additionally, many of them are being told not to come back next Z’man (after Pesach).
THE FOLLOWING WAS THE EXTENSIVE YWN COVERAGE OF THE LEVAYA
VIDEOS & PHOTOS: Live Coverage of the Boro Park & Monsey Levayas of the Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL
Photo Essay: Levaya Of The Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL- Part 1 (Photos by JDN)
Photo Essay: Levaya Of The Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL – Part 2 (Photos by JDN)
Photo Essay: Levaya Of The Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL – Part 3 (Photos by JDN)
Photo Essay: Levayah Of The Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL In Monsey – Part 1 (Photos by JDN)
Photo Essay: Levayah Of The Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL In Monsey – Part 2 (Photos by JDN)
Photo Essay: Photos Of The Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL – Part 1 (Photos by JDN)
Photo Essay: Photos Of The Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL – Part 2 (Photos by JDN)
BORUCH DAYAN HA’EMES: Petira of the Skulener Rebbe ZATZAL
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67 Responses
When in Rome do as the Romans.
“Record breaker”
Really? Really? They were told NOT to go but they went anyway? Do the crime, you do the time.
If they felt it wasn’t right, let them go elsewhere and “prove” themselves.
Makes sense if ur in a yeshiva you have to follow their rules!!!!!
Why oh why would YWN post this? This is obviously a decision of the hanholo of the yeshiva and should not be subject to our opinions about it…
If only I could, I would open a yeshiva just for these 50 boys. They are heros. Boo to the mehahel for booting them out. Mida kneged mida – one day he too will get just desserts.
I would guess more like suspended for not listening to the hanhalah. These idiots were told not to go by THEIR REBBEIM. But they of course knew better. If they are not interested in what their Rebbeim tell them to do, only when its convenient, Then by all means chuck them out
Why won’t YWN, who never shies away from revealing names, especially Chassidisha, reveal the name of this Mossad?
This is mamish apikurses, I guess the hanhulla of this sick institution doesn’t say Birchas Hatorah everyday, where halvuiyas hames is one of the things “Shein Luhem Shiuer”.
If these boys are smart, boycott this Yeshiva and let them close down.
And then we wonder why so many yiddishe children go off the derech….
The Hanhala apparently never learned מסכת כתובות or מגילה where it stated: “מבטלין תלמוד תורה להוצאת המת”.
If yeshivas won’t allow bochurim to attend historic events related to Judaism then the boys will seek other means of entertainment.
No name?
It’s rather very unlikely that the Yeshiva had the ability to tell them in advance not to attend as news of the petira spread after Yeshiva hours and the talmidim had to leave to the levaya early the next morning, before Yeshiva started.
Such a yeshivah must be closed down.
These boys friends, must all pick themselves up and leave.
This is how these litfaks treat a chassidishe gadol????????????????
Shame on them.
If this were to be a litfak, they would say, DROP UR GEMARAS AND RUN TO THE LEVAYA.
We must hear the name of the yeshiva.
50 bucherim on the street for paying respect to one of our last gedolim. SAD. HORRIBLE
Which is the record breaker, the Hanhala for giving the boot, or perhaps the fact that FIFTY bochurim ignored the Hanhala’s instructions??? – not sure…
Its a major liability for a yeshiva or any school for that matter , if the bachurim just decide to leave the school grounds with out permission. If bachurim can deal with said school policies then go to another yeshiva which have no isdue with hefkayrus!
A. This yeshiva ignored the Gemara in megilla that explicitly states that one of the only times you could and should stop learning is for the levaya of a tzadik. (the Gemara says the exception is if there are 600 thousand which there clearly wasn’t in this case) so the bochurim were right for going
B. doesn’t the yeshiva realize how much potential learning will be lost by kicking out bochurim for missing a few hours?
In my humble opinion, Yeshivos with an excellent track record producing high-caliber bnei Torah are very consistent in their chinuch. We should trust the roshei yeshivos in their decisions, and YWN should not be mixing into the chinuch of talmidim. There is a reason that they are running a yeshiva, and YWN is running a website. Keep the two separate. If you don’t like a policy of a certain yeshiva, that’s fine. Send your son to a yeshiva which is in line with your hashkafos.
Very not right what the yeshive did, I will call it a Disgusting act
Imo the yeshiva is wrong for not letting them go.
However, mashmaas is vital and when the yeshiva says no, it’s no.
Unreal how some of you are bashing a yeshiva and more so behind some yiddisha haskafa of which you obviously know nothing……1. Against chasids( probably not if the kids in the yeshiva are chasidishe) 2. Dont know gemara?? Probably more than any of you quoting 3. Whatever their reasons for not allowing 50 bochurim to travel to ny for a levaya once they say no that is daas torah and any bochur who disregards that daas torah does not belong in a yeshiva until they realize what it actually means……i suggest for all you with other opinions to go ask your own daas torah because your torah is obviously without daas.
Sounds more like expelled than suspended…
I agree that they broke the rules but that doesn’t mean someone should get kicked out because of that. When I was in Yeshivah, people broke many rules habitually, and were rarely if ever thrown out. And they probably did worse things than go to the levayah of a gadol. And I’d bet that this same Yeshiva also has other barchurim who break rules more egregiously and are not kicked out. Sounds more like a control issue or shita.
Disturbing…
@regular guy 64. Nope. We shouldn’t. Sorry. For decades we’ve had corruption. Finally we’re starting to have checks and balances. Thanks, YWN.
I am sure the sklener rebbe zt”l who loved every Jew would of wanted those bucherim to stay in yeshiva and follow instructions of their Rosh yeshiva.
I remember when I was a bucher and was kicked out for 2 weeks because I went to a chasene out of town against the Rosh yeshiva instruction.
This Yeshiva is one of Lakewoods elite Yeshivos, where bochrim know very well what the yeshiva policies are, same litvish or chadidish, they never ever shut the Bais Medrash, well deserved punishment, they are not worthy of being part of this great mokom Torah
Until YWN knows why their Rabbonim didn’t allow their students to go, this should not be public information. Of course the Skulener Rebbe ZTVK’L was a Gadol B’Yisrael. Nevertheless the Yeshiva didn’t allow them to go. That’s none of our business why this Yeshiva didn’t allow them to go. If you don’t like the Yeshiva, don’t send your kids there! But this shouldn’t be public information. We’re doing more damage than helping.
It’s ridiculous how every little thing is viral.
If we make a mockery of of everything, you think kids will ever listen to their Rebbeim again??
The Bochurim were 100%right to go to the Levaye.The one who did the suspension has no Yiras Shemayim,.He is like the Erev Ravs who learn Gemorah on Shabbos while smoking a cigar for mental exercise.
These bochurim had all the rights, as in their mind and many others it was a clear situation of :
מבטלין ת”ת לכבוד המת
The hanhala has no rights to infringe on their halachik rights.
I’m almost certain, that the very הנהלה does not even have the capacity to pasken even basic halacha שאלות!
The facts that i verified with someone in the yeshivah is as follows :
The yeshiva did NOT say that its forbidden to go, he just mentioned that there is no חיוב to go according to a שיטה in ראשונים thats all!
In the AM after the boys were hedding to NY he said that he forbids them to go, so to all that are busy talking about listening, obeying yeshiva rules its not nogaya in this case.
In my opinion he should take them back immediately… so it doesn’t further harm the name of this chushiva yeshiva.
Asinine chinuch. Not one of the bachrim that got suspended will learn there lesson and if it would happen again they would most probably go again.
over over done….
מבטלין ת”ת לכבוד המת
Does not mean closing a Yeshiva which is an hour drive away ( or 16 hours by horse and cart) to attend a levaya even of a Godol BeYisroel. It means that for a Meis Mitzva or if a Mitta is passing the Beis Midrash, one is required to attend the Levaya.
These kids went because of the excitement of sneaking out of Yeshiva, travelling into BP with thousands of Yidden, and being part of a grand historic occasion. ( and getting a quick bite while ‘on the road’) All without permission. Most caring parents would be negatively suprised to see their boy who supposedly was in Yeshiva in LW standing around in BP trying to hitch a lift back. Kudos on the Hanhala for not allowing and respect to them to take action for misbehaviour.
Absurd. Not like they went to the movies. Attending the levaya of a gadol is a mitzvah that pushes away Torah learning, because he is like Torah himself. especially if they were chassidish bochrim.
What a shame to the hanolo, I would understand if they would only suspend them for not following instructions, although they are wrong and especially if they came from Chassidishe backgrounds. But to kick them out of yeshiva! That’s a bizayon to the the Skulener Rebbe zt’l and a very bad chinuch. Non of those bochurim should come back. Yeshivos with such yesodos produce bochurim without yiras Shamoyim, how sad.
Yisroel Yitzchok:
You couldn’t have said it better.
Makes sense, if the Yeshiva says not to do and you ignore what the powers that be say, you get the boot.
Also, maybe Chassidishe Bachurim should not be at a Litvish Yeshiva…
to think sensible what will be YOUR RESPONSE if the headline was 50 BUCHURIM OF A CHASIDISHE YESHIVA IN BENI BARK THROWN OUT FOR GOING TO THE LVAYA OF RAV SACH
I cannot believe this article is on YWN. Which chelek in Chofetz Chaim said this should be a public forum conversation. OYYYY.
CALLING ALL GVIRIM:
Please Please start a new yeshiva for these exceptional boys.
WITH TEARS IN MY EYES.
It makes one wonder if this was a Litvisha Gadol, would they also have been told not to go?
If the yeshiva as a a whole isn’t going, that means that they shouldn’t go. Usually, this inspires more rebellion.
a few points;
1. the hanahala was stuck in what to do when their is an open defiance by a big group
2. bucherim are a work in progress far from shleimus
3. i remember by rav nosson vachtfogels ztzl levaya in lakewood , we asked rav pam if its ok to meet the aron by jfk instead of shlepping to lakewood and we could leave yeshiva later , rav pam said men geit voo er hot marbitz torah geven!
4. many of these lakewood yeshivos have only one thing going for them ” good bochurim” aside from that the hanahalla offers almost nothing in terms of ruchnius or gashmius
If you ask your Rosh yeshiva and he says no, then it’s עד כאן. If you don’t ask and go, then you have an excuse.
> ehrlicheyid April 3, 2019 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm
>This is obviously a decision of the hanholo of the yeshiva and should not be subject to our opinions about it…
It is highly relevant for a number of reasons, and for brevity I will limit it to the following. Yeshivahs ask for money from the public, so the public not only has a right, but a responsibility, to know where their money is going. And of course, any individual looking for a yeshivah to attend also ha not only the right but the responsibility of knowing the nature of the Yeshivah. Though the name of the Yeshivah is not given, the public (frim this news) now at least knows to ask ant prospective Yeshivah the question about their policy.
i just made 2 calls to get the scoop
1.this is a litvish rosh yeshiva where many bochurim are chassidish / chassidish backround
2. in the morning he didnt say you cant go remember the lakewood buses left at 9am
3. when the rosh was shown the mishnas reb aaron ( by a chutzpadik bucher , which rav malkiel shlita always says over ” kenesinasah beshishim ribooy….) he answered that according to one rishon its only in the eer and not another city
if rav matisyahu was bekochos the olam would have gone
ps. sekulen can open a yeshiva with the fifty bucherim
I am so disgusted with all the nasty comments on this topic.
How can anybody judge the hanholah when you don’t even know what the full story is?
Who were these bochurim that were kicked out?
What type of bachurim/yeshiva is this institution?
What was the point being made by the bachurim when they left (i.e. was it truly l’shem shamayim, or just to be moche?)
Everybody is so quick to judge and this should not have been posted in the first place (or by the Lakewood Scoop, either.)
The people spewing their hatred for the Torah velt, I have a question for you. Did B&H close their store and allow all of their employee’s including floor salesmen to just pick up and leave??? Madison Title? Meridian Capital?
Aha, so business is more chashuv in your eyes than Torah. In the real world, you don’t follow the rules, YOU GET FIRED!
There is an old joke – Moshiach will have to be a litvak
Now I understand it, if he were a chossid the yeshiva – will not allow the bochurim to go . . .
Look Up Mesechte Shabboss 105:2 the First Tosfos!
The original question of “can we go to the Levaya and miss leaning Torah” has morphed into another question of “can we disregard directions from our mechanchim (to skip a Levaya in order to learn/ to disregard one mitzvah in lieu of another”).
To be fair, this is a question that is not for the layman but for gedolei hador.
How this dissension must pain the neshama of the Skulener Rebbi, zt’l!
I think it is supposed to go like this.
The yeshiva says, Don’t go.
The bochrim go anyway, because it is the right thing to do (especially if they are chasidishe).
The yeshiva says you are suspended the rest of the zeman (2-3 days until Rosh Chodesh Nissan).
Everyone returns after Pesach ready to shteig away!
Wow! 50! That’s a Big Gulp!
This place called a Mesivta is more like a
Mais-sivta.
I have a few ideas of what happened but HEADS UP! they are all imagination, speculation, made up ideas.
Theory #1: The yeshiva probably has been thinking lately how to get rid of some talmidim. Probably due to budget cuts, Mechanchim not getting paid, or something like that. So here presented an opportunity and they flew with it kicking out the 50 bochurim. If it wasn’t the Levaya it would have been for going to the supermarket or 7-Eleven.
Theory #2: Community pressure trying to make Lakewood Litvish again. (That would be like trying to get packages to have ‘Made In America’ again.
Theory #3: A cover up for something that was about to be exposed of the mesivta and so the Hanhala went off on this crazy tirade prohibiting bochurim from going. Imagine if the news came out that ’10 Rabbeim are suspended’, that would be a big shame!
Theory #4: There is a divide within the yeshiva between these 50 bochurim and another whatever how many more bochurim there are. The ones that remained set this up and it is they who convinced the Hanhala that these guys are up to no good.
its a shame you wasted space on this piece. the place you are talking abt has a history of abuse and dictatorship, its not a normal mesifta. this is not the first time they did this. realy if you are already talking abt that place do the world a favor and do a full report.
I give credit to these young men. They did what they thought was correct. They “got the boot” because they thaught for themselves.
> Not getting involved April 4, 2019 9:42 am at 9:42 am
Real world schools (from nursery to post doctorial) have no such thing as being kicked out for missing a day. So these learning in the yeshivah are now employees who are fired? Real world employees are protected under the law (at least in the modern western style democracies) granting them the right to freedom of religion and conscious, and the employer would be whacked by the government for blocking an employee from exercising religious rights. (The one thing the employer can do is not pay them for the day they are away). From eeoc website:
> Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation. The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee’s religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer’s business.
The real question is why this Rosh Yeshiva didn’t go to the Levya of this great tzadik Talmud chochom oved Hashem and ohev lol yehudi shbeyisroel.
Answer:He doesn’t respect the heritage of the bochurim.
Holy bochurim YOU WERE MIKADAISH SHEM SHOMAYIM.
The real question is why this Rosh Yeshiva didn’t go to the Levya of this great tzadik Talmud chochom oved Hashem and ohev lol yehudi shbeyisroel.
Answer:He doesn’t respect the heritage of the bochurim.
Holy bochurim YOU WERE MIKADAISH SHEM SHOMAYIM.Be proud!!!!
Nobody should be punished for going to this levaya. The hanhala of the yeshiva that punished the bochurim must not really know the gadlus of the Skulener Rebbe. They coul not really know the greatness of this tzaddik, or else tehy would have brought the yeshiva to the levaya!
The Skulener rebbe was one of the biggest tzaddikim in the world. Who knows, maybe even THE biggest. Only Hashem knows. We have suffered in irreparable loss.
My son’s entire yeshiva attended the levaya, but if he were in a yeshiva that punished him for going, I would be proud of his mesirus nefesh. I would tell him he absolutely did the right thing in going. I do believe in following the rules, but some situations are an exception, and this is clearly one.
How dare people judge the hanhala based on their actions?
Being Sephardi it is very hard to understand why these bochurim would be kicked out for attending the Levaya???
The Litvak yeshiva model/culture is very different and at times very difficult for Sephardi and Chaddishe kids….exactly because of this dictatorial type of leadership. I allowed my son to go late to school once so he could attend the brit of his Rebbe’s son – a Rebbe from 2 years ago. His current Rebbe couldn’t understand it. I also let my son miss 2 days of school so he could attend his cousin’s bar mitzvah…and I allowed him miss school on another occasion so he could attend a cousin’s wedding. Again my son’s current Rebbe couldn’t understand why I would take my son out of school to attend a family simcha. Seriously?!?!?! Because it’s derech eretz to attend a family weddings and bar mitzvahs and celebrate with the Baal Simcha!
These boys followed their conscious and did what they felt was right. It’s an even greater mitzvah because it came with hardship. Good for them.
Different people are mentioning that the boys defied authority . I would compare this situation like the yeshiva told the boys not to put Tefilin on , you don’t listen to authority when they go against Halacha . For chasidisha boys going to the levaia is like putting on Tefilin
To Huhh it looks to me like you are a hanhala member and therfore protecting the Hanhalah . The Hanhalah did a stupid think and needs to be called out on it in order that they stop doing such things
Yes a rule is a rule but what I hate from these Yeshivas Before setting a rule think for a second if that MANY boys wanted to go to the funeral ( it’s not like they wanted to go to the movies) be a little bit more understanding the people who run the schools call a little too far in there authorities and get a pleasure and running it like a Boot Camp without thinking sometimes. That’s what happens when you don’t come from a chassidish background they don’t have an understanding the connection to a Rebbe
Its their yeshiva, its their own business, and they can do whatever they want, period.
The crazy ones are those fools that give them money just for the sake of being “honored?”.
Even if one bachur goes off the derech… was worth it? Sometimes the yeshivas think with their head up their Ass. Not worth it to destroy a life. Idiots
why are there so many supposedly chassidishe boys in a supposedly litvishe yeshiva, run by litvishe people with litvishe hashkafos? hamibli chassidishe yeshivos bilakewood?
this story is short on facts and long on speculation.
I am amazed at how many Roshei Yeshiva and Gedolei HaDor we have giving their opinions here on YWN on the propriety of the Hanhalas HaYeshiva’s decision for their talmidim. Are we considering the following?
1. The Rosh Yeshiva and Hanhala of the particular yeshiva has absolutely all rights to make decisions on behalf of their yeshiva. Why must their decisions be tried in the court of public opinion to the point that everyone feels they have the right to comment on their decision. If you want to make decisions for a yeshiva, start your own yeshiva or join the board of this yeshiva.
2. We haven’t heard the reasons behind the decision and yet we are already second guessing it. Isn’t this tantamount to one litigant presenting his case to the judge not in the presence of the other litigant?
3. I’m not convinced that YWN has an obligation to report on these types of stories that only serve to open up a forum for everyone to comment on something about which they do not know the important details. Isn’t this simply an invitation for people to spread Loshon HoRa without a to’eles?
It was wrong to ask and then defy.
My question for the Hanhala is , if this is the punishment for going to a Godol’s levaya, then how would you punish boys for skipping out and going to a baseball game or some other such thing. There should be a difference. I am suggesting that other less drastic consequences could have been imposed in consultation with Daas Torah from outside the Yeshiva. This could have been a good teaching moment both the boys who were involved and for all the other boys who were watching from the sidelines.
To more chessed more truth , Kol HaKavod
I totally get it and you are totally cool! I come from a black hat home, yeshivish, some not so yeshivish, but B’H I connect with you. I have connected with Sefardim and Chasidim my whole life, background Tosfos Y’T, Noam Elimelech, Chida, Dovid Hamelech also my E’K is partially Moroccan. You are so very right that if there is a Simcha, Hanachas Tefillin, B’M, B’M, Chasunah, Bris, etc. you make it into a big happy time for the kids and allow them to take off. 1 day two days whatever is needed. Maybe even a half day. You know what I think happened to the velt. As goyish as we don’t want to be we became very mush like the colleges and universities. ‘I remember hearing something from a professor in college that is hard to forget. He told the class about the importance of never missing a class and said ‘I don’t care if your grandmother passes away, thats not a good enough excuse, you still need to attend all classes’. By him and the goyish velt, it means nothing. Family means nothing, life means nothing, its all take for yourself and forget about the other person. So as much as we try to stay away from the impurity around us these type of attitudes have seeped into our hearts and souls. We are very american indeed.