The following is via Breaking911.com:
A push by Virginia Democrats to loosen restrictions on late-term abortions is erupting into a fierce partisan clash because of a viral video in which a lawmaker acknowledges her legislation would allow abortions up until moments before birth.
Gov. Ralph Northam (D) added gas to the fire Wednesday by describing a hypothetical situation in a radio interview where a newborn infant who is severely deformed or deemed “unable to survive” could be left to die. That prompted accusations from prominent Republicans that he supports infanticide.
In the viral footage, Virginia House Majority Leader Todd Gilbert (R) questioned Delegate Kathy Tran (D) about her legislation.
Gilbert: “Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth … she has physical signs that she is about to give birth would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? If she’s dilating?”
Tran: “Mr. Chairman, that would be a decision that the doctor, the physician, and the woman would make at that point.”
Gilbert: “I understand that. I’m asking if your bill allows that.”
Tran: “My bill would allow that, yes.”
WATCH: Virginia Democrats Propose Bill Allowing Abortion Up Until Moment Of Birth
— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) January 30, 2019
On WTOP’s Ask The Governor, Northam defended the 40-week abortion bill saying, “If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
“I think this was really blown out of proportion.”
WATCH THE VIDEO:
Democrats said their views were being deliberately mischaracterized by the GOP for political gain.
“Republicans in Virginia and across the country are trying to play politics with women’s health, and that is exactly why these decisions belong between a woman and her physician, not legislators, most of whom are men,” Northam spokeswoman Ofirah Yheskel said in a statement.
Republicans countered that Democrats were upset because their “extreme” views on abortion were being made clear to the public.
“What my Democratic colleagues are most concerned about is what this moment actually revealed. It was a moment of unbridled honesty about their agenda,” said Republican Del. Todd Gilbert, referring to a video exchange between him and Democratic Del. Kathy Tran.
Existing state law does not put an absolute time limit on abortions and Tran’s legislation does not alter that.
Her legislation would reduce the number of doctors who would have to certify late-term abortions are needed from three to one. It would also delete the requirement that doctors determine that continuing a pregnancy would “substantially and irremediably” impair a woman’s health. Instead doctors would only have to certify that the woman’s health was impaired.
Supporters said the changes in law would help reduce the bureaucratic burdens women face when dealing with difficult decisions involving late-term abortions, which often involve serious medical complications.
“We must trust women and their health care providers,” Tran said at a Monday subcommittee hearing, where her exchange with Gilbert was recorded.
Opponents of the legislation, which has failed in both the state House and Senate, said it would give essentially allow for late abortions on demand.
Prominent Republicans and conservative media outlets helped spread the video exchange to a wide audience, with more than 2 million views as of Wednesday.
“What is happening in our country. This literally makes me sick to my stomach,” tweeted Nikki Haley, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, in response to the video.
What is happening in our country. This literally makes me sick to my stomach….#AdoptionIsAlwaysAnOption https://t.co/OdAU4gjMh8
— Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) January 30, 2019
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio was one of several Republicans to denounce the comments, tweeting that Northam is openly supporting legal infanticide.
I never thought I would see the day America had government officials who openly support legal infanticide. https://t.co/VzM4FPO7QT
— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) January 30, 2019
Yheskel, the governor’s spokeswoman, said Northam was only trying to describe the “tragic or difficult circumstances” involved in a late-term abortion.
“Attempts to extrapolate these comments otherwise is in bad faith and underscores exactly why the governor believes physicians and women, not legislators, should make these difficult and deeply personal medical decisions,” she said.
Republican House Speaker Kirk Cox gave a floor speech — which speakers almost never do — Wednesday where he publicly scolded himself for not doing more to restrict abortions and said he worried Virginia was on the verge of adopting abortion laws similar to those in liberal states. New York just approved an abortion-law overhaul that includes a provision permitting late-term abortions when a woman’s health is endangered.
Republicans currently have a narrow majority in the Virginia General Assembly. Virginia is one of only a handful of states to hold legislative elections later this year and Democrats have a strong chance of taking control of the legislature.
President Donald Trump said he thought the controversy surrounding Tran and Northam’s comments would be a boost to conservatives.
“This is going to lift up the whole pro-life movement like maybe it’s never been lifted up before,” Trump said in an interview with The Daily Caller.
(AP / Breaking911.com)
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42 Responses
A Virginia Democrat
This is the reason
The US is a champion of word rights?! Ha, ha what a joke!!!! With legalized murder of babies, sick and older people, and with the so-called “mental health practitioners” and doctors enabling mental disease and physical mutilation of people to “become the opposite gender”, and with parents deliberately creating mental and emotional health issues by with “gender confusing” their own kids; the US is a cesspool of human rights violations and disgusting barbarism and indecency.
S’dom
A Dem
It wasn’t blown out of proportion. The dems are showing you who they really are.
Philosopher is 100℅ right. This country is headed in very very scary direction.
Baruch Hu Elokeinu sheb’ra’anu lichvodo, v’hivdilanu min hagoyim, v’nasan lanu toras emes…
We don’t rationalize and justify cold-blooded murder!!!
I heard the following from a chashuva rov who deals with lots of otd children
“We never know why things happen in this world and we font know hashems cheshbonos but perhaps one could see a correlation between pushing the child molestation issue under the rug for so many years, killing innocent children mentally, phsycologically and even causing a high number of suicides etc. and this gezaira on mass abortion killing up until the end of the trimester and the gezaira on the secular dpt. in schools
Something to ponder over.
Just remember this when they cry crocodile tears for Palestinian children…
Why isn’t she being arrested for incitement of murder?
In the video, he says that the government shouldn’t be involved in this decision.
Democrats believe that the government should be involved in everything, except for this!
This is one of the only reasons that we need government, so that people don’t kill each other!
I have great gratitude for these Dems.
As a small boy in class when learning about the evils of Sdom V’amorah etc. or about the more recent terrible Churbon of 70 years ago it’s been hard to fathom that there can actually exist such Rishus. They prove that there CAN BE AND IS such amazing Rishus alive and well.
‘Rabbi’ of Berlin? I know of some other ‘leader’ of Berlin who held this opinion.
The third semester is before delivery PLEASE distinguish!
If the head appears outside the mother then it is too late to abort!
Abortion after 40 days is only allowed if the woman’s life is in danger.
But Bris Milah and Scheta, these evil immoral democrats ARE concerned! With these wicked democrats, It’s a race to the bottom of the cesspool. Baruch Hashem we have Mike Pence as our Vice President.
The same Mike Pence who argued back in his Indiana days that since all human life is “so sacred” anyone participating in an abortion should be subject to capital punishment??
I just listened to the governor. At what point did he in any way say that it’s ok to kill a baby AFTER it’s born?
Why accuse him of something he didn’t actually say? It just makes the accusers seem a bit crazy and unhinged.
Not getting involved,
So true. Kaparos is their huge concern, shechita etc…… What a twisted demented world we live in.
ocho sinco
Why isn’t she being arrested for incitement of murder?
Because she hasn’t done that (among many other reasons). Go look up the definition of incitement.
Gadolhadorah
Yes, the same Mike Pence. Do you have a problem with capital punishment for abortionists? It’s exactly what the Torah requires of the world’s nations.
GH that is what Torah says as well. It’s one of the sheva mitzvos bnei noach- murder. I have two sefarim on it and yes abortion is murder (unless necessary to save mothers life) and anyone who participates deserves capital punishment.
(Actually applying this though would require more care in the justice system so innocent people aren’t killed but that’s a separate issue.)
adocs, I can’t listen to the video because of my internet filter but in the article it states “On WTOP’s Ask The Governor, Northam defended the 40-week abortion bill saying, “If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.””
Now how is that not murder of a baby that is born already?! The infant is STILL ALIVE AFTER BIRTH!!!
Gadolhadorah, what is your point? Because, according to you, Mike Pence is a horrible disgusting Nazi who wants to execute abortion provider it is OK with you to murder innocent babies after the birth.
This thread needs clarity. The previous president and his Czar made it clear that abortion should be up to a certain age post-birth. Don’t forget, more specifically, it was okay to practice abortion even after the procedure fails and someone is born. When the President was only a Senator, he didn’t muddle his position.
Let’s move on past that historic day 10 years ago now, and move on to Congress. Remember when the Pelosi party fought to make the US the only partner of China to have the least restrictive and most dangerous procedures available? Even Europe doesn’t go so far (yet, they allow for therapeutic suicide as far as I’m see it).
So, out of context? I don’t buy it.
Philosopher,
Which of those words you quoted promotes murder? Please be specific.
I dont get these democrats. They are proposing that it is OK to kill a baby via lethal injection, however they are opposed to capital punishment via the same method. Further proof of the olam hafuch the democrats live in.
Democrats declared open war on humanity.
Dems =Demons
What’s new?
adocs, are you really expecting them to say “there will be an option of killing babies after delivery?”
The words “The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.””
That means that the infant AFTER DELIVERY is VIABLE AND ALIVE and the family and mother can THEN decide if they want to RESCUCITATE the baby!
Are you that dense not to understand clear sentences?!
In any case, whether in or out, it’s murder of a full-fledged human beings!
The only time abortion should have been legal was for the mother of ALL Democrats and Liberals. We then would not be having this discussion
Philosopher,
Are you that dense not to understand english?
ALIVE does not necessarily equal VIABLE.
There are unfortunate situations where an infant that is born alive, has NO CHANCE of survival for more than a few hours or days. Is one required to take heroic life-saving measures in such a case?
Letting someone who is imminently terminal, die peacefully, (subject to discussion with a qualified posek) is NOT MURDER.
So let’s revisit the smoking gun words…
“The infant would be kept comfortable.”
Seems OK to me.
“The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired”
In a situation where it would be permissible to refrain from lifesaving measures, (yes, such situations do exist, both in infants and elderly) it is not necessarily prohibited to prolong the life either. Hence the “resuscitated if…the family desired”
“and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother”
Again, since lifesaving measures may sometimes be withheld, this is a valid statement. Perhaps measures were taken and now the family does not want the patient to unnecessarily suffer.
This is not meant to defend unjustified abortion. But don’t take someone’s words out of context and accuse them of murder.
Philosopher,
One more thing
“In any case, whether in or out, it’s murder of a full-fledged human beings!”
That is incorrect. A fetus before it’s born is not yet a full fledged human. A full term fetus that threatens the life of the mother may be sacrificed to save the mother BEFORE its born. However, at some point during the birth, that changes and the baby is now equal to the mother and may not be killed to save her. It is now a full fledged human being.
But you don’t need to take my word for it. Just ask any qualified posek.
Adocs, you wrote “ALIVE does not necessarily equal VIABLE.” True. That’s why I used both terms.
A full term fetus is a full-fledged baby, period. What the halachik ramafications are if the fetus endagers the mother is a different discussion than what a full-term fetus is- it is a fully developed baby.
Why are you bringing up an abortion if the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother? I have not discussed that here at all. We have discussed terminating a baby after it’s birth or right before birth. This is murder. Abortion is murder ( unless the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother). To discriminate against disabled babies and withhold treatment is murder- just like the Nazis discriminated against disabled people. Once all available treatment has been tried and there’s nothing to do- then there’s nothing to do. But to withhold lifesaving treatment because a baby is disabled is, besides discrimination, is outright murder. Liberals can’t discriminate against gays or transgenders of 50 or so genders…, or whomever else these idiots don’t want to discriminate against, all of a sudden, against disabled babies they have no problem to discriminate against them and withhold medical care?!
If Hashem yerachim someone is terminally ill and there’s nothing that can save them, they can discuss with a posek their options regarding withholding further treatments. However I have seen terminally ill patients that everyone, including doctors, have thought there not going to make it, and they keep on living for many long years. Deformed and disabled children have a right to be given a chance to live just like everyone else! What right do mothers and doctors have to be selective in whom to administer medical care? Who can live and who can die is not peoples choice to make. Only God who creates life can decide who will live and who will die!
According to Judaism, every moment of life is precious so even babies who only live for a few hours or a few days should be given a chance. Many babies have beaten the odds and gone on to live long lives.
The problem of liberals is that they don’t value life, only comfort- they care that the baby should be comfortable but do not care whether it lives or dies!
Adocs, stop being so dishonest. The governor is not discussing letting a baby die naturally without taking heroic and futile measures to save it. No bill is required for that! No law has ever required such measures, and nobody has proposed any such law or is ever likely to.
The governor is discussing a bill that allows a mother to decide, for any reason she likes, to have her baby killed at any time before birth, even while she is already dilated. And the governor was asked what if she decides that during birth itself. And he says they should deliver the baby, make it comfortable, and then discuss whether to kill it. If the mother wants a dead baby she is entitled to have one. There is no other word for that than “murder”, and it is shocking that the mainstream news media are deliberately ignoring it.
adocs, the Torah says a fetus from 40 days (i.e. not an embryo) is a full fledged human. Killing it is murder, and a ben-noach who does so must be executed. To be clear, the din of killing a fetus is exactly the same for everybody, as the din of killing a ben noach. There is no difference.
A fetus who is threatening its mother’s life may be killed to save her, not because it is not a person but because it is a rodef. A rodef may be killed no matter how old he is. The reason it may not be killed once the head has emerged is not because its status has changed, but because it is no longer the source of the danger to the mother. At that point משמיא קא רדפו לה, childbirth is a naturally dangerous process and that, not the baby, is what she is at risk from.
Can YWN post the rest of the bills that were proposed/passed regarding abortions? It is really unclear from the article and all we have are opinions.
“New York just approved an abortion-law overhaul that includes a provision permitting late-term abortions when a woman’s health is endangered.”
If that’s all that New York permitted, then I don’t see what the uproar is about.
From the article, it seems that the Virginia proposed bill would allow much more leniency on abortion and very much lessens the requirement for the mother to be at risk.
Philosopher
“According to Judaism, every moment of life is precious so even babies who only live for a few hours or a few days should be given a chance. ”
no that is according to you. you are mixing up your boich with Judaism. For example according to (almost?) all poskim there is no obligation to resuscitate an ancephallic baby (look it up) . This is actually the more “popular” option that abortion halachicly, since fewer poskim allow abortion (Tzitz eliezer being the most prominent, Seridei eish only up to 40 days) than to “let the baby die” as the governor said (Was he quoting R” Shlomo Zalaman, who said the same?) Though not to “kill” as the headline lied.
Thee are the cases he is talkig about. This may or may not surprise you but after a viable birth the doctors never ask “so whats the story, are you keeping this baby or are we putting it in the abandoned baby closet”
Adocs: (Or your real name: Ezra Friedlander/Avi Shafran):
According to Jewish Law, a fetus is fully alive. The Rambam clearly says so. There are technical reasons why Jews don’t get the death penalty for abortion, but a non-Jew would! So stop supporting murder.
I have a question for her:
What if there’s a person who clearly should have been aborted before their birth (e.g. because they propose bills that suggest killing babies is ok) but mistakenly wasn’t aborted, can you abort her life 40/50 years later?
ubiquitin, it’s true that stillborn babies are not tried to be rescuscitated, and I have not spoken about these babies. You are mixing up the metzius of a baby whose heart is not beating to one that is not breathing on it’s own. Let’s say a baby is blue, or simply cant breath on it’s own do you think it’s not rescuscitated? This happens every day where babies are given medical help to enable their breathing. So if they are disabled they can’t dont have to be given a chance?
In any case, while the article is not clear about it, the governor seems to talking about abortion of disabled babies up to birth and therefore causing them to be delivered not breathing after birth. But even if was talking about severely disabled children born not being able to breathe on their own, only healthy children will be rescuscitated? The mother can have a say to let a baby die if it’s born disabled?
ubiquitin: thank you for bringing some sanity into this discussion.
yeshivish hockstar: you better go back to yeshiva. The Rambam says no such thing and you are wrong about a fetus being fully fledged human being.
ubiquitin, Ok, so I just educated myself of what an “anecephalic” baby is so disregard my previous comment to you. It’s not only babies who cannot survive that the governer said parents will have a choice not to rescuscitate but also babies with “severe deformaties” the family will have a right to kill. Not rescucitating a baby who can live = killing.
My comment about rescucitating babies are for those who may have a chance to survive but as humans we cannot know for sure and they may only live for a few days. It was not about rescucitating babies like anecephalic babies which have no chance of living at all.