[AUDIO IN EXTENDED ARTICLE]
Michael Savage, a nationally syndicated conservative talk radio host, had some harsh words for the orthodox Jewish community who engage in Metzitza B’peh. In fact, Savage devoted his entire show yesterday to slamming the practice, and spared no words for the Orthodox Jews.
He debated Orthodox Jewish callers for more than an hour in his show, which aired on Monday April 8.
He began his show by quoting the following Fox News article:
After undergoing an orthodox circumcision ritual, two infant boys have contracted herpes – with one testing positive for HIV-1, the New York City Department of Health said yesterday.
The two boys, members of the city’s ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, were circumcised in the Jewish ritual known as metzitzah b’peh, in which the practitioner, or mohel, places his mouth around the baby’s penis to “cleanse” the wound and suck away blood, Medical Daily reported.
A week after the ceremony, one of the boys developed a fever and a lesion on his scrotum, according to the health department.
In 2000, the city began requiring parents to sign consent forms acknowledging the health risks of this practice following a string of incidents that included 13 cases of herpes, with two resulting in brain damage and two others in death, according to Medical Daily.
None of the parents of the two boys signed these forms, said Jay Varma, deputy commissioner for disease control at the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. One of the mothers, who was not identified, denied receiving a consent form to sign, Jewish Week reported.
Varma said it was “too early to tell” if the babies would suffer long-term health consequences from the infection. Neonatal herpes can cause death or serious health issues among infants.
Dr. William Schaffner, chair of preventive medicine at Vanderbilt University, told media there is no safe way to practice this kind of ritual. “These terrible infections are completely preventable,” he said. “They should not occur in the 21st century with our scientific knowledge.”
Some rabbis have defended the long-standing practice.
After the city enacted the informed consent law last year, Rabbi David Niederman, executive director of the Hasidic United Jewish Organization of Williamsburg, told ABC News, “This is the government forcing a rabbi practicing a religious ritual to tell his congregants it could hurt their child.”
“If, God forbid, there was a danger, we would be the first to stop the practice,” he added.
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43 Responses
The Fox News article has some misinformation as no baby has contracted HIV yet from MBP. THe DOHMA has acknowledged that fact so expect a correction on that aspect of the story in the next few days.
And now…let the cries of “they are trying to outlaw bris milah” commence.
Well I think he has a point in the first nine minutes.He wants an answer its a good question and rabonim that know how to answer they have to stand up and answer these questions he is mevakesh the emes in a way. He truly does not understand as well as many frum yidden do not understand.May I say there are alot of rabanim that cannot answer this question.
And guess what you cannot steal from people and the government and think its ok.
How about the total lack of ahavas chaveirim and ahavas yisroel from within us. If we loved each other if we truly loved our own kids (yes if you watch bad videos and you do immoral things on a regular basis if you show up to davening late talk by davening talk about other people a whole day ehat do you think a frei person will be saying
Indeed –he’s true to his name he is a true savage after all. –Displaying his true colors
oh wow the fist caller was great I a so proud of him
I have stopped listening to him a while ago, when I heard him talk against Rabbis, he was making fun of Rabbi Akiva and all the tanna’im and Amoro’im.
Its not hard for someone that has all the mic controls and to sound right, he is in his own shell and thinks that only what he thinks is right is right and everyone else is stupid.
His real name is Michael Weiner and he is likely a self-hating jew considering that he hides behind the name ‘Savage.’
Having said that, maybe he does have a point… Its sad that frum yiddishkeit has become a blind mimicry of “azoiy hut de tateh getuhn” without any thought to the rationale of what is being done…
of course. he’s a frei jew. I expect no less.
When we banned the internet, we should also have banned WABC.
The only other option to be able to logically explain to our Talmudim, the true source of whatever we do.
crisis of the week: its a typo, they mean HSV-1 which is herpes
Savage thinks he can throw whatever medical garbage he wants at his listeners because he got a Phd in nutrition 30 years ago.
the truth is that herpes ca affect both the upper and lower body and move back to neurons in the area. this is a problem with herpes that affects the face as it will go back to cell bodies in the brain and can cause meningitis and encephalitis in babies and is very serious. when it infects the genitals it moves back to neurons in that area and does nothing more than give a rash. Some acyclovir and everything is fine.
Many of you guys are too much…you adore the bum when he slams Obama…and hate his guts when he slams MBP Many of you have as much sophisticated nuance as as does an angry adolescent.
If no one can answers these questions then all of us, Jews, are guilty of a HUGE CHILUL HASHEM!!!
Fox News has since removed the mention any HIV. You’ve got to ask where did this HIV remove originate from. Fair and balanced.
It wasn’t a typo, it was an uneducated report reading HSV-1 as HIV and then blowing it up.
I debated SAVAGE on his show last night for about 10 minutes (10:35 Eastern).
The main points I made are as follows:
1. The City has absolutely refused to do DNA “fingerprinting” test to match the DNA of the hepes lesion with the DNA of the Mohels–WHY?
2. In the absence of any positive link of this sort, the City is reduced to speculation, based on the fact that one event followed the other, and on statistical analysis of the probabilities that this could be merely a coincidence.
3. Such a stitistical approach is invalid when you have such a small database of anecdotal cases to work from.
Agudas Yisroel has filed statistical and epidemiological
analyses by top PHD’s, refuting the City’s case as a fraud and a misrepresentation.
This data is avilable for anyone’s inspection at:
http://brisnyc.com/Statistical_Malpractice.html
while mr. savage has a very entertaining and sensational way of talking about things. He is also very dangerous. he knows enough about yiddishkeit but obviously doesn’t believe in it. You can never know when he’ll take that entertainmment on yourself. He is a radical rightwing but even the right don’t trust him cus he’s inconsistent in his beliefs. This is why I’ve refrained from listening to him cus while I have laughs about others and issues , i don’t know when it’ll be about me.
deepthinker
you were absolutely great as well as the other callers it was a big kidush Hashem to show the world that if you learn Torah its machkimas pessy and no one could stand up against a proper Kollel Yungerman that toils in torah Harevanya in Torah not crossed legs and an arstcroll approach just simple hard work working on teich pshat and the like not taking the easy road.
As for one point I will tell you that would have shtuched him out in the first place is the fact that how does he know that mila is beoso makom the fact that he takes that for granted proves that he agrees with the chachomim like the gemoro goes through the shakla vetaria the only way we know it is because our helige chachamin taught us
geula
He is not dangerous you have to be able to think and come out with answers.This is precisely why we have issues with children today there are questions and kids dont get the answers cause the father and mother have blank faces they have no idea where they are coming from its because you are afraid of your own ghost guess what there are answers for everything LEARN LEARN LEARN hours a day even if you claim you do not have time you still have more time then the previous generations.
the brain is like metal if you leave it be it starts to rust rust learn Torah challenge yourself to think not be afraid of questions questions are good its the people that don’t learn and are robbing future generations of their past DA MA SHETASHIV LAPIKORES
know what to answer.
not turn a blind eye to a radio host HE IS NOT THE PROBLEM
we have to produce chinldren every single bochur girl yungerman should know how to answer these questions in a heart beat
Yira,
Aside for being a kool aid drinking non thinking liberal, what do you have against WABC Radio? I am no fan of Weiner Nation or of the toyta person they have in morning drive time or of mustache man. If you don’t like it, don’t listen. You could listen to AirHead America — oh they are off the air because no one listened to them.
Although he did not make much sense and was clearly unnerved by the more educated callers,it is not appropriate to respond.Furthermore some of the callers sounded foolish and we would be better off without this chillul Hashem. It is beyond me why ywn would give any focus on this,it is certainly not news! Let questions be answered only by those who really know the answers and they are our beloved GEDOLIM(probably not anyone listening to talk shows!) CASE CLOSED!
He was so off
He called it barbaric, not the cutting but the MBP. That makes no sense.
He compared it to female mutilation the Muslims practice . As one caller pointed out ” how can one compare MBP with female mutilation?”
He said he believes in the “old testement”
#20 (mully) – Not news? This is not news?
Are you out of your mind?!?! Savage just informed 8 million Americans what the Frum Yidden do, and this can cause a major snowball effect on national news & national talk-show networks. And this is not news?!?!?!
Maybe the jerks (yes I said that) at the Agudah and the rest of the organizations who are our “leaders” (not) and who “represent us” (not) should get THEIR ACT TOGETHER AND SPEAK UP AND DEAL WITH THIS IN A NORMAL WAY. Not like a bunch of crybabies, and stupid threats of lawsuits etc.
It’s about time that people say it how it is. Our askanim have failed miserably on this.
He wants to ban bris altogether. The only bris he would allow is surgery when the person is an adult and so chooses
He his a Kofer and clearly played with people’s emotions by depicting a picture of an old man doing MBP
He knew that that sounds worse than the cutting itself because on the cutting he can’t say anything yet as too many people would scream…
But on MBP he sounds like he cares for the “children”
Did anyone hear his garbage about the effects on the child….
He sounded stupid and played on the misinformed people emotions
The moment I heard him degrade Rabbi Akiva and Amoiraim, I stopped tuning into him, and this was about 6 years ago. A loud mouth who will say anything to stay in business. A rotton human being and a disgrace to our religion
Sam, with all due respect (although not much is due)
teh Aguda has long said from Daas Torah that we have nothing to gain by debating this in public. I beleive it may even be printed in the Rabbi Sherer book.
There is no way to convince the average goy, not-yet frum jew and even alot of frum yidden that this is normal.
that was years ago, now in this day and age of hypersensitivity to abuse and molestation even more so. its a nonstarter.
Problem is if you dont draw the line and defend bris, then anything is fair game, shichta etc.
In other words I fully agrtee with their approach and fully disagree with yours
If we don’t learn how to answer these accusations, we’ll soon find Shechita banned in the U.S. as well.
@Sam the Man,
The Agudah and other askonim have not responded because they can’t. There is no real basis for this practice in halacha. It is not a requirement of bris milah, merely a suggestion by chazal which is no longer relevant since the nature of infants has changed.
Once again the entire frum world is being held hostage by loud vocal chasidim who believe that judaism means not changing one iota from the way their grandparents operated in Europe. Pathetic!
Rebyid40 says:
bingo mp was based on medical belives at that time that is why they said do it so the baby is not in danger if it was really part of the bris the talmuld would not has said that is why one can do it on shabbos it simply would have said of course one can do it on shabbos it is part of the bris
Git Meshige says:
April 9, 2013 at 2:07 pm
he did not he simply poinred out trufully that they did not not have the medical knowlege we have today and that is a fact
Pardon my mentioning this, but will some one tell Michael Savage that this is what Gay Men practice on each other and they are basically the biggest spreaders of AIDS.
Rebyid40
U r the pathetic one here!!!
Your ignorance shows!
The Talmud Rambam and gedolei Acheronim talk about it. Go open a Sefer for a change
Al Titosh Totas Imecho alao means nothing to u. Congratulations for reaching step closer to being a ” conservative ” Jew
We have been to countless Brisn BH whenever heard of a problem, it’s your yeter Horaah talking and we r not imtreated on what he has to say!
Reply to No. 27
Who says you have the right to speak despairingly about Chasidim? I don’t care if you tell me you have as an American “freedom of speech.” We have a Torah that tells us what you can and can’t say called – Chofetz Chayim, Hilchos Loshon Hora or Shmiras HaLoshon. Learn halacha before you start badmouthing people!
“HIV” ? there is a difference between the erpes virus HSV and the HIV virus qwhich causes aids. this error which seems to have started with Faux news has taken on a life of its own spreading pure libel. savage ranted several times about a baby getting “HIV” and even here, YWN copied the mistake. when are people going to correct it and start checking their facts before repeating what they hear/copy/paste?
My limited understanding of MB’p is that it is done for medical reasons, to promote blood flow and thereby reduce the risk of infection; it is not commanded by halacha. If that is correct, then there could be better ways to accomplish what MB’p is intended to do, by using a medically sterile mechanical suction device to accomplish what the mohel is now doing with his mouth. Can anyone explain why a sterile mechanical device cannot be substituted for a mohel’s mouth?
nfgo3
good question as amatter of fact the talmuld never says B’Peh nor does the rambam just Metzitzah
Which is why i listen to Mike Fransesa on the FAN. His passion about sports and his amkus into it inspire me to do the same about Yiddishkeit
jewish source:
I’m really happy for you that you know exactly what would solve the problems of this generations. Even the gedolei hador have had a hard time figuring that out. In regards to “He is not dangerous” He is indeed. I’ve listened to him speak, he has no boundaries and while you may think his ramblings are deep or insightful, it’s just entertaining and sensational to listen to. He uses the shock factor to get his audience to listen and has a funny way of expressing that. In regards to any inyan in halacha and to chilukei dayos. Mr. Savage is a man of his own opinion and surely doesn’t understand the meaning of eilu v’eilu. And if you disagree with the fact that there isn’t only one opinion and that in this case he is wrong then you too are a huge am haaretz. No man can tell another that there is one answer to questions in the torah unless if it’s a chok. And by you saying that answers must be given and implying that Mr. Savages answer is the one then you’re point of not giving answers to kids becomes even more contradicted by urself. Because giving only one way as an answer is worse than any answer.
Peakman, about 6 years ago he called the Sanhedrin, arrogant. Look it up . He hates the talmud, he hates Torah Shebal peh. He claims he loves G-D. Muslims and radicals also love G-D, but are they right?
sam the man.
You wouldnt only be considered an am haaretz dummy or a shame for humanity by any descent normal yid. But try to speak these few words to any respectful goy and you would understand and finally learn how a brain unpolished becomes a brain tarnished. I have no idea what you’re doing commenting on a yeshivish site. I always wonder why, haters like you still have an interest in people like us. Perhaps you don’t find your place commenting on secular issues and get bullied for your transparent brainless comments; cus no matter frum or not. A brain and character remains the same. And those are two factors you must have to survive the outside world too. I suggest you begin working on your midos and start respecting and understanding things that even my christian neighbor understand. otherwise you’ll loose both worlds.
Anyone that changes their G-D given name, Weiner, to a farshtinkine name like Savage, needs no explanation as to what their agenda is. Michael Weiner is a Jew that is a wannabe Christian. His mother is a Jew and that makes him a Jew, no matter what he says. He hates Torah Shebal Peh with the same vitriol his Christian counterparts do. Its a shame he was not around at the time of the Holocaust because he would have been rounded up with all the Orthodox he so despises. But he will get his fair share in the world to come and he will face the truth sooner rather than later. Hope he either gets off the air or peigers quickly
34 (nfgo3),
because thats the m’sorah! you libs are always treading all over the tradition.
the other reason “MAY” be that the suction is better BP than with an intermediary.
there is NO reason anyone including herr bloomberg should be treading on bris mila and its about time all the MBP deniers out there realize this is FAAAAAAAAR BIIIIIIGGGGERRRRR than just MBP. Today its MBP and tomorrow its the whole thing.
There’s a reason why England Banned him from entering; he is an inciter, a hater and that can cause danger.
When this all started about 7 or 8 years ago we had rabbi zimmerman speak to my night kollel on the subject. One of the things he said is that rav shlomo zalman aurbach ztzl told him that using a tube and suction from the mouth was 100% considered metzizah BPeh. When r zimmerman asked him why he didn’t publicize his psak he stated “I’m an old man and don’t want people to break my windows”. This shows that some hard line metzizah bpeh supporters are blinded by minhag and refuse to listen to psak especially if it can protect these rare cases while still keeping the minhag.