The Jewish Week is reporting that the first Hechser given by Conservative rabbis in the NY area, has officially opened.
According to their report, the certification was formed in Suffolk County after a restaurant’s owner said the Orthodox supervision he had was so costly he couldn’t make a profit.
The following are excerpts from their article:
“We’re doing it as a community service” at no charge, explained Rabbi Howard Buechler, spiritual leader of the Dix Hills Jewish Center. He and three other Conservative rabbis from neighboring synagogues hired a mashgiach or kosher supervisor in August for Bagel Boss/Deli Boss on Jericho Turnpike in East Northport.
“We got involved when it became known that he could not afford the hashgacha [kosher supervision] he had, and the local Jewish community wanted to ensure that a quality kosher establishment remained under reputable hashgacha.”
The new mashgiach works Sunday through Thursday, and the four rabbis conduct spot checks on Friday and throughout the week. The meat kitchen is closed on Shabbos, but the restaurant is open and sells previously made meat items, as well as dairy products.
Until three years ago Hebrew National’s kosher supervision was unacceptable to the Conservative movement. But that changed when they met with Rabbi J. Howard Ralbag, the supervising rabbi of the Triangle K. Together they spent three days inspecting the ritual slaughter and food preparation at the company’s plants in Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa.
The resturanrant owner says he has noticed fewer Orthodox customers in his store, but that only about one-third of his clientele is Jewish.
During the lunch hour one day last week, a customer at the dairy counter asked for bologna and cheese on a bagel. Told that it was not permissible because it was a kosher establishment, the customer asked for and received the cheese on a different plate.
Note: The Hebrew National logo was removed after the Ralbag family complained. -admin
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46 Responses
An absolute fraud.
Hi – I don’t think it’s nice to put a picture of Hebrew National next to the article about conservative rabbis. I realize that not everyone eats triangle k but Rabbi Ralbag is a frum Rabbi.
This should be publicized in all the FRUM papers so that nobody is nichshal.
Now all those cheeseburgers lovers will enjoy the real deal.
so… pointless… *shudder*
something sounds not kosher here
Mr. Moderator,
It is extremely not right that you use a Hebrew National logo for this story. Hebrew National is certified by Rabbi Yosef Ralbag and his son Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag, whom regardless of what we all think or know about the Triangle-K are shomer torah u’mitzvos.
When they took over the hechsher they made a number of takonos at Hebrew National from what they had before under Rabbi Stern a”h. Don’t get me wrong, the fleish is still not glatt but non glatt doesn’t mean non kosher.
ml
I agree with 3 … they aren’t giving the hashgachah on Hebrew National…
1-7
Its more then that because of the monoply of an Orthodox Hashgacha they charge high prices. Not to say they should not charge or not make a profit but their prices are so high that it does cut into profits of those that are trying to support their families. They should consider lowering their prices and more Jews will have more choices and those that do not keep Kosher will be able to eat a Kosher meal and who knows this my turn them towards a Torah Life.
People wake up. This is a harbinger of things to come. The Orthodox monopoly of kashrut aupervision is under very serious attack. Do you people honestly think that only Orthodox Jews keep kosher (atleast at home)? I’m no expert, but I’d venture to presume that the percentage of Conservative affiliated Jews who keep kosher homes is higher than you would imagine. The percentage who buy only kosher meat, higher yet. Reform Jews are coming back to traditional observances and we can expect the percentages of them who will keep kosher in the home to rise into the future. These non-Orthodox, kosher observing Jews will be more than happy to accept the new and cheaper Conservative hechsheirim. They will buy the meat and other food products supervised by these non-Orthodox rabbis. Moreover, since (for now at least) the supervising rabbis are not taking a fee for their hechsher, that savings will be reflected in the price of the products under their supervision. Those who maintain Orthodox supervision, which is far costlier than non-Orthodox supervision, may very well see a diminution in their sales with varying degrees of severity, depending on various variables (i.e. geography, the food in question etc). What will that say about the economic value of Orthodox supervision? Think about it on the brand name level. What might happen if, foe example, a Conservative rabbi approaches the Heinz corporation and offers to provide kashrut supervision for half or one third the cost of the OU’s supervision. Heinz may very well, based on market research, determine that it is worth it to drop the OU for the cheaper Conservative hechsher, even if they lose a portion of the Orthodox market. A sleeping lion is awakening and his roar may very well be fierce.
the only way we will be able to clean ourselves of these destroyers of our Jewish faith is if the Orthodox come out with a campaign and clearly attack head on the illegitimacy of the conservative reform movements.
most Jews including Orthodox don’t understand how unacceptable and compromising these movement are to our faith.
illini07,
It happened to be a news site and a it is a break-through having a conservative Hashgacha.
Looking down at the “Tinokos Shnishbu” themselves is wrong, but looking down at the acts themselves, and at the misleaders – is right.
#9 is right, it is also an insult to Rabbi altusky ztl who was universally a huge Tzadik and HN’s mashgiach for many years – conservatives jews dont deserve mention with them and fall under UVEEARTO HORO MEKIRBECHA
iib001 & cantoresq,
Your points are WAY off base here and it is very clear you know nothing about kashrus.
From reading the story I could see EXACTLY why they dont have frum hashgocha and that was from the little mention of cheese in the place. A reputable hechsher would not certify this location without a MASHGIACH T’MIDI.
Also, you are pointing at the OU which is also very incorrect. As a very “local” establishment they would not be OU certified, as they would be certified by a local organization which we should all praise for not providing hashgocha.
Having been in the kashrus industry for well over 20 years, I would be willing to bet – so to speak – that there is more here than meets the eye or what the drive by media elected to report.
Granted the proliferation of kosher certified items in North America is nothing less than 100% Chasday HaSh-m, we will IYH continue to have products certified by reliable hechsherim.
ML
We are seeing groups that are having private shabbos ‘services’,”frum” nussach with a woman doing the Kabbolas Shabbos and Lecho Dohdi,and giving ‘shiurim’to men and women in ‘Torah’ and ‘halocho’. Conservative hashgocho? Oxymoron. Either it is 100% kosher or it’s not kosher at all. It cannot be any other way. There is no ‘conservative’ or ANY ‘ branch’ of Yiddishkeit as per Toras Moshe. We must do something NOW to keep Yiddishkeit AUTHENTIC!!
How many different USA constitutions is this country going to have? There is ONE standard,one rulebook,or it must be called something else. Don’t call this Kosher or Jewish. IT IS NEITHER!!!
How about having Halal Hechsher?
This is really not good news, there are those who keep kosher and are not too in tuned to the certifications and who gives them. This will make the choices for the uninitiated even harder.
# 15 “conservatives jews dont deserve mention with them and fall under UVEEARTO HORO MEKIRBECHA” Wow. I was just reading in another comment about the taanis earlier this week that we have a saying that every generation that doesn’t merit the rebuilding of th beis hamikdosh it is as if it were destroyed in that generation.
With comments like this, Reb lakewood, You are r’l demonstrating midos kamtza u’bar kamtza. No wonder the geuloh is delayed. You’ve just tarred an entire group of Jews with the thought that they should be DESTROYED! that’s the word you used. I know dozens of conservative Jews who could instruct the most heilige yidden from Mea Shearim to Boro Park to Lakewood to Stamford Hill to Gateshead to Monsey to Kiryas Yoel to Bnei BRak on the imperatives of Tzedokoh and ahavas Yisroel. Dozens who know what “kol yisroel areivim ze bazeh” means better than most frimme yidden. And you want to eliminate them.
What a wonderful comment on the hashpooh of Lakewood on contemporary Jewish thought. And I am afraid it is not just one man’s opinion. My nephew’s getting smicha soon there and I wonder now what he’s being told about his fellow jews?
You and I may agree that the influence and instruction of Conservative Rabbis is contrary to daas Torah, but that takes away nothing from the brotherhood and sisterhood of every Jew, no matter what he calls himself.
I even know one woman, a conservative rabbi, who when she was the rabbi of a conservative congregation in Waco, Texas, refused to “perform” any conversions because the access to kosher food, jewish education, and a Jewish “lifestyle” was impossible for someone “new” to Judaism, and they couldn’t live a complete Jewish life. Sounds like this woman, as misguided on many things as she undoubtedly is, understood more of what it means to consider the needs and actions of a fellow Jew or potential fellow Jew more than you apparently do.
For my part, if your words were written in haste, or imprecisely, I can be don l’caf zchus. But what impression do you think this makes on a conservative Jew who reads this? or a BT whose family is conservative? Is this the image of Lakewood Yiddishkeit you want to project?
It is very important to post such an article. Many people just look for any Kashrus symbol and it’s good enough for them. Knowing that conservatives qlso giva hashgochos should be a wake up call for them.
By the way, are the Kashrus organizations we have till now all so kosher?
Feif Un writes:
“Well, he saves money by getting rid of the frum hechsher, but he’ll lose more by missing his frum customers.”
In some neighborhoods that is true, but the arithmetic does not always work out that way.
And knowing what I know about the East Northport frum community and its size, I would very, very strongly suspect that the frum clientele who have walked from the East Northport Bagel Boss (including many I personally know) are more than outspent by the non-frum or goyishe trade that has come into the meat section.
The problem at the BB is that because they sell meat, they need a mashgiach temidi. Because there is now no mashgiach temidi, even the dairy/pareve stuff is assur.
Mr. levin;
Do you know me that well that you can make such a conclusion and dismiss what I wrote? I own a Kosher Glatt etsablishment and I think I know what I am saying. It is possible however I did not express my self well and that is why you wrote what you wrote.
Have a good Shabbos!
i am sorry to inform all but the Triangle K is not one that most g-d fearing jews trust. There has and is many problems with kashruth. Whats worse is that he has his psak ro back him while ALL the leading poskim do not hold of his psak. The kashruth of his plants are not to be accepted. Plain apple juice is a problem as does he kashur his pasturizers which have “blius” fromt he treif runs or the treif product flowing on the opposite side of the pasturizer heating the “kosher” product.
Yeshiva World knows what they are doing.
the conservative and reform movement is outright apikursos and has without dispute led to the destruction of Judaism. The intermarriage and dilution of standards, the complete disregard for the serious ness of Halacha is all due to these movements.
On a public level as opposed to a one on one level where we try to be mekarev every Jew, these movements are the poison to Judaism that ccontinues to destroy our Holy tradition.
#12 hit it on the head. You haven’t seen anything yet. Wait until the companies figure how little they make from the frimeh buying their products, wait until the companies discover how much cheaper and easier these other bufoons will be and down the drain will go the OU and all the hashgochos.
see a little into the future only by coming with a clear campaign that these guys do not represent or follow Torah law and distiguishing ourselves from them do we have a chance.
Conservative it is Judaism its not. Ralbag – Triangle K – Cheese and meat- open shabbos.Phony rabbits soory rabbis its all clear Its not our chelek!!!!!!!!!!!!! its sheker gomur.
During the lunch hour one day last week, a customer at the dairy counter asked for bologna and cheese on a bagel. Told that it was not permissible because it was a kosher establishment, the customer asked for and received the cheese on a different plate.
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ROTFL!
#
The babble from some closed minded critics here is laughable. How about applauding them for caring about kashrus and having some standards? Why do you holier than thous think everything is a competition over who is better?
Hooray for the establishment for being so concerned with kashrus.
Comment by The Town Crier — December 21, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
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Gevalt geschreit! I hope you are being sarcastic given the standards mentioned above!!!!
torahis1, once upon a time the NY State law required Orthodox supervision. That changed when NY State realized that century old law was probably unconstitutional. The Kosher Law Protection Act of 2004 requires that consumers of food represented as kosher in New York be provided with information identifying the person or organization certifying that food as kosher.
My view of this whole thing: All of this is a matter of percentages. If you buy glatt kosher meat its probably not glatt in the traditional sense but its very likely kosher. The laxer the kosher standard the greater the possibility its in fact treiff. Is this store really ‘kosher’? I have no idea. I would not rely on its certification. But I think its great if people who otherwise would eat trieff eat this level of kashrut instead. Because there is a good chance the food is kosher.
To those who worry about the Orthodox kashrut supervisors being cast down you should know that the majority of the ‘kosher market’ is in fact non-Jewish. Moslems are a huge portion of the kosher market. I’d be much more worried with the rise of the hallal certification (modeled on kosher) then I would be about Conservative supervision. The fact that the OU and the other kosher supervisors are pro-Israel gives the hallal certifiers an advertising advantage in the Moslem communities.
Who will be certified first by the conservatives?
McDonald’s, Burger King or Wendy’s?
The law in NYS is that if a company or establishment claims to be kosher they need to prove it with a kosher letter of some sort that clearly matches the location or product. The state cannot mandate that kosher is ONLY orthodox. Therefore this location could have conservative “supversion” and still be alright with the State.
A friend gave me a perfect example of this where in Western NY there is a small company that repacks items some kosher certified product under a plain “K.” He used to be under a reliable hechsher but the cost was too much for him so he decided to register with the state as a certifier. He told my friend he is proud to the the first lutheren giving kosher approvals.
For the person who wants to Save Lakewood,
While you might be correct that the agency is not one that is used by “inzir” crowd, far be it for you to question any of his “kulos.” I wouldnt touch most of the products either but I am willing to bet that you will NEVER know in halocha what they have fogotten!
They may have standards that date back many years but who decided that what current “standards” should be? The “big boys” on the block. Currently they dont want to play the same game (a friend of mine has what seems like a good reason why they havent upgraded standards and another major certifier was able to do just that and BH become just as reliable as any of the “big boys”) and that is their choice.
We should have an Association of Torah Yidden (ATY) to insure no impostor poses as one.
It would also help YW in moderating the comments. (i.e. Members Only).
I couldn’t trust an ORTHODOX Rabbi for
supervision on Chickens, in Monsey.
So should I trust Conservative hashgacha
at Bagel Boss or Bagel Deli???
Calm down,
the chazon ish was posek there is no real apikores nowadays, they all have a status of tinokot shnishbu, from lack of anyone who knows how to repremand properly. He adds that even if you reprimand him it ain’t enough, ’cause we on our low level don’t know how to do it right.
Any one who works with kiruv (I do) knows how much the conservetive and reform jew nowadays is a complete tinok shnishba. It’s is very rare to find a real ‘maskil’.
May g-d bring all the jews together, and we should stop preventing the redestruction of the beit hamikdash. AMEN
comment 36 mark levin.
i may live now in Lakewood but i conside myself an out-of towner who grew up away from the east coast and whos home has had the honor of hosting many leading rav hamachserim mark levin. I have had the opportunity to meet and hear these selfless treu tzadikim who work so hard for the klal and make sure to their best ability that we all keep a true kosher home.
I am someone who has been in Hechsherim for 20 years. In the 70’s a relative of mine was starting hechserim visited a plant which he found Lard (pig fat) and the product was under the Trinlge K. He contacted Rabbi Ralbag who was not fazed. Obviously this person never again considered lending his name as a mashgiach for any product under the triangle-k. Is this a KULA that “Rabbi ” Ralbag knows halacha better then me. I know the basic torah.I have a mesora. what heter is there for chazur treif? WE HAVE A MESORA HOW TO PASKEN AND WE HAVE HAD RAV MOSHE FEINSTEIN, HARAV SHLOMO ZALMAN ORBACH, WE HAVE HARAV ELYASHIV. DID THEY MATER GELITEN??? FROM CHAZER????TREIFOS??? Rabbi Ralbag makes a mockery of halacha. its called twitsting the torah. “chazer Fisiluch”
When other Hechsirim take over a product or plant that was previously under the triangle -K, they wonder why is the new hechser so stringent? Why so many logisitcal and by product changes? why are they planning on visiting so many times and reviewing records vs the one in a few years if at all that Rabbi Ralbag supposedly visited.
Yes when i am shopping in lakewood nj stores with products from The triangle K, Half moon K, and also carry questionable hechserim such as CHug Chasam Sofer and Chasam Sofer (because everyone now want mentos)- I wonder what are we thinking?
The stores themselves should review with their rav what hechserim are acutaly reliable TODAY whether its a major organization or a very yiddish or chasiddeshe symbol. Some of the hecasherim are great and some are lousy. People assume that just because it looks jewish and the store owner is cosheve- that its good. DONT
people are not up to date and dont know the kashruth problems that arise from anything inclduing products that gets pasterized or cooked.
I am very close with someone who has been in Hechaerim for almost 40 years. He could have opened a major hechser many years ago which could have made his family very wealthy. He will never do so.Instead he is affliated with many hechserim and not a full time employee of any hechser. The major Rav Hamachserim trust him and he relates to them all Shailos and they Pasken or bring it to even higher dayanim should the need arise.
If he sees something not correct in someone elses plant or something arises he will diplomaticly call the other Hecsher and notify them. When nothing happens, its the Rav Hamachser of that product that needs to have the guts to make the recall. He was properly informed.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they dont.
Savelkwd
Are you not embarassed to write the way you wrote, besides the bizuy Talmid Chachom sheboh, where the gemorah says “Eish Ochlosoh”.
Living in brooklyn and having met rav ralbag on numerous occasions, Rav Ralbag is a great Talmid Chachom and yirei Shomaim, having read your post it is obvious you have a personal ax to grind, as being your self involved in Hashgochos, as you write ‘I am someone who has been in hechsherim’
You write about your supposed mesorah “we have Reb Moshe Feinstein”,
Call Reb Dovid Feinstein Shlita and ask him about Tri k, His father Reb Moshe Zt”l was a close friend of Rav Ralbag and supporter, as Reb Dovid will testify and has told me how he was makpid to carry their products in his fridge.
No one is asking you to eat anything , but to say total lies that sound as absurd as your spelling, about pig in plant under the tri k , and then in that same post mentioning gellatin, I personally inquired from the Rav hamachshir it happens to be the tri k never gave a hashgacha on any gellatin product, even though there were matirim like Rav Chaim Ozer Zt”l, (something you obviously are ignorant about).
But legufah shel inyan about the post with the Hebrew natn”l logo, anyone with any know about what is happening in kashrus can tell you about the great takanos these Rabanim have done for thousands of freie yidden that want kosher meat, new shochtim and bodkim, a friend of mine lives in the midwest, and sees these shochtim and bodkim that came in from e”y for this operation, all talmidei Chahchomm and yirei shomaim.
So its not Glatt (so dont eat it) but like someone in kashrus told me he heard a posek say privately,”it has been one of the greatest accomplishments in kashrus in the past twenty years that yidden all over America should eat kosher and not ch”v neveilos utreifos”.
I dont know what you have been fed being some outta towner, but not being motzi shem rah and saying shekarim, rechilus and l”h is obviously not one of them.
how do you continue allow these posts, moderator??? how can you approve them? It’s disgusting. Feel free to email me at [email protected] and tell me what your justification is for doing so.
Please remove Hebrew National Logo, this has nothing to do with the article. Why are you insunuating that Hebrew National is under conservative hashgocha, this is misleading and frankly libelous.
Guys, let us not put HaRav Ralbag’s Triagle K in the same boat as Conservative Hashgachas. There is a big difference.
True most of us chareidim do not eat many items from Triangle K, due to his using a few heterim & kulas that we don’t hold from. He has the hechsher on many items that the OU would not touch.
It is not that we do not trust him. He is an honest man, and the products he certifies are truly what he says they are. But, as with any hashgacha, you need to know his rules.
Just like with the OU and OK and a few others that most do “trust” …. one needs to read what they write, or phone them and ask their policies.
Many are not aware that the OU and those others, use a heter for bishul akum based upon the concept that “Canned foods do not need bishul Yisroel, since a king will not eat canned food.”
Many question that, and say, “If the TYPE OF food would be eaten by a King, then, it is OILEH AL SHULCHAN MALACHIM and we would be machmir and not eat if it is not bishul Yisroel.”
So, many do not question, and assume if it has an OU it is bishul Yisroel, after all the OU would never allow bishul akum! Wrong.
For instance Tuna and Salmon. Kings eat tuna, and certainly Salmon Steaks. But the OU says they would not eat canned tuna or canned salmon, so they allow bishul akum in canned tuna and salmon and all other canned good. They explain this on their own website. They tell you that if you are machmir on Bishul Yisroel, you should not eat their canned products unless it also says Bishul Yisroel!
The OU is on the package, but it is not lying. What it stands for is only what they say it stands for.
The same for the Ralbag’s heterim on oil, carmine, or whatever else we disagree with. OU says NO to the oil, Tri-K said yes. That is why he has all those chips, I guess.
OU (Belsky) said “No, aim mevatlin issur lechatchila.” Tri-K (Ralbag) said, “The shaila is brought to me in the ship at the dock. It is already bedeievad, not L’Chatchila. The issur is botel, it is kosher.”
Two different ways of looking at it. I tend to agree with Belsky, but I would not say Ralbag’s oil is treif!
DISCLAIMER: THE STUFF I WROTE ( oil, carmine., etc) IS SECOND HAND. I DO NOT CLAIM ACCURACY ON THE SHITAS QUOTED. SOMEONE MAY HAVE TOLD ME INCORRECT THINGS.
If you ask Aryeh Ralbag, he will clearly tell you what he bases his rules on. He will clearly tell you HN is NOT GLATT. But he has improved the shchita they had. He made great improvements since he took over after Rabbi Sterns was niftar. They were his conditions for giving approval.
So, he took a Hot Dog that many, many non-frum Jews were eating, and made it kosher. Not glatt, but kosher. Is that not better than treif?
Conservative hashgacha is different. Yes, it is again a matter of different rules, but there is the idea of how they look at halacha, minhagim, mesorah, and ./…. Shabbos.
Oh by the way… talking about needing to check on the organization’s rules….
SEPHARADIM: You are not allowed to eat a lot of stuff with Ashkenazi hechsherim. We Ashkenazim use a heter in commercial kitchens that is NOT acceptable to Sepharadim. That is on bishul akum. Many Ashkenazim allow a mashgiach to turn on the the PILOT LIGHT in the oven in the morning and or on the stoves, and a goy to cook all day long. This is not acceptable to most Sepharadi Rabbonim.
Most rule that is the flame on the stove is turned off, (not the pilot light, but the cooking flame) a Yid MUST Turn it back on or the food cooked is forbidden.
This can apply to food at a restaurant or chasuna.
So, one must know what the organization’s rules are.
att emesvssheker.
for your curses – you can keep. Bilam Harasha cursed and Klal Yisorel was blessed. HOW CAN YOU CURSE?
I bless you with Arichas yomim and may we both live happy a joyfull years.
Sorry about the spelling if that makes you feel better. I did post it late at night and it happens. If it bothers U so much. O.K. I may not be great at spelling but do you know what is “kosher”? Have you been exposed to soemthing that “claims to be Kosher” but is not. Ask the people in Monsey? Five towns? Washignton Heights ? Clevland? Chicago?….
I do apologize if i am across wrong. But I did not say Rabbi Ralbag gave a hechsher on Lard or that it had it in the product. I ask for Michela if that came across the wrong way.
i said he does not check his plants as they should be checked and his standards are only his. That is why he is one of the largest hashgochos as he does not properly check his plants or products as they should be thereby creating kashruth issue with his products. In addtion many of his heterim are not accpeted by others. He in fact may be a great lamdin but there needs to be an acceptable mesora that obviuosly other would hold of.
We as consumers are looking to hechserim to properly visit, research and inspect the products and their plants properly. This is the issue.
What was considered kosher 10 years ago can not simply considered kosher today as many plants are not producing only one product. They must produce anything they can to stay in business. This is why plants needs to be inspected and visited more then ever.
The fact that rabbi ralbags plant was having hot clam juice as a heat exchanger on the same line as apple juice thereby heating the apple juice and making it treif. Yet the product is sold under the triangle K and is even sold in some Lakewood stores.
IF THE OU,OK, CHOF-K, CRC and many leading hechserim can not simply trust the Triangle K , then obviously there is an issue. ALL HECHSERIM use most of the others Hechserim by-products. When it comes to the Triangle K it usualy raises a red flag by all the leading hechserim.
DOES THAT NOT TELL YOU SOMETHING? What this means is that it is NOT POLITCIAL AS YOU CLAIM, ITS ACTUALY A KASHRUT ISSUE THAT MANY HAVE WITH RABBI RALBAG “heterim”.
As you say and I agree I have a “beef” when people claim to be “Kosher”. as your name states “EMES VS SHEKER”
YES -PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF WHAT IS A TRUE RELIABLE HECHSHER THAT MOST POSKIM AGREE ON.
As one leading Mashgicah stated to me” Rabbi Ralbag uses the same heterim as the conservative “Hechserim” use”. TO CLARIFY – RABBI RALBAG makes heterim that no one else would ever agree or accept.
I Can not believe that the Feinsteins would allow the Triangle K in their homes. But you say they do?????? I guess you know better.
i stopped reading the posts after the first few, so if I repeat what was said please forgive me.
this has nothing to do about MONEY –
think “Commack kosher”
YW editor the link is to the story regarding this case: http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/September-October-2002/story_marsh_sepoct2002.msp
this is about destroying Torah true values and watering kosher laws down the same way that they have watered down all other aspects of halacha.
In NJ, the certificate of Kosher supervision must identify the affiliation of the Rabbi providing the supervision.
First of all the Jewish week is wrong about it being the first conservative hashgacha in NY. ABout 3 years a cold stone creamery got the hashgacha of the local conservative place. They saw they didnt get any extra revenue so the rov who used to give the hashgacha on that bagel boss (before they went to conservative) approached them and now they make a ton of money from the frum community. I am very close with him and he told me that there are very few frum people out there and its not worth it for them. This is the only bagel boss that had this issues, the rest that still have hashgacha are still fine.
#23: you are not talking ‘tzim zach’. first of all, I like the way ppl always know the exact reason why Moshiach isn’t here yet. secondly, you’re talking about a lady rabbi (called “rabbit” by some..) who was so mehudardig she didn’t want to “perform a circumcision” because of Kashrus… how ironic. sorry. “Impressive”!
Dear YW Editor
Thank you for being an honest moderator and removing the Hebrew National logo.
savelkwd
you are saying pure lies about a frum rav, “same heterim as conservative rabbis”..!!!anyone can say or write anything about anyone its called sheker and motzi shem rah!!!
i personally have been a mashgiach in plants that ran their apple juice and have seen masgichim and kashering going on between clam juice and apple juice just like it is being done for ou and ok products, pls resist your lies and get a life.
this reminds me of the lies that were spread when back in the eighties they gave the hashgacha on coke, people like you spread the rumors that there are rabbits eyes and cat brains in coke until the ou got the hasgacha, and how quick the rabbit eyes rumors disapeared.
For some reason there are pure lies being spread that any honest person would call the rav hamachshir and confirm whats true, try it i have done it a couple of years ago, for your info he gave me all the info the way it is, and he told me that never was there a hechsher by them given on carmine or gellatin, or other rumors …that your ilk spread.
If there are kulos they rely on he will tell you straight out, but having been a masgiach for kashrus it is not any different then the other hashgachos, same basic kulos on manufact lines.
ATT #53 you are being motzei she rah and saying I am saying lies.
The product was Motts apple juice and i personaly knopw the mashgiach that saw this.
The SAME moshgiach who is trusted by all leading hechserim such as the OU and The OK AS YOU MENTIONED and also the Tzelimer, CRC, Chof K, KAJ and even the Bedatz Yerushalayim to name a few. SO STOP WITH THE ATTACKS ON ME AND ASK YOUR SELF WHY IS IT THAT SUCH A “CHOSEVE RAV” HAS SO MANY POSKIM AGAINST HIM WHEN IT COMES TO KASHRUTH? he is casuing many people to drink and eat food that has 100% kashruth production problems.
If clam juice is heating apple juice on a heat exchanger the apple juice is treif 100%
savelkwd
save your self from further lavin before saving a town.
Like I said i have been a Mashgiach for them on their Motts as i have been for other Hashgachos in the same plant. Whenever there was a run with clam juice there was a total lockout system in place and a masgiach would come in to kasher with a full hagalah the equipment prior to motts apple juice, this is been going on for years as i have done it myself for years, as a matter of fact i know a few other mashgichim who over the years have done this run for them.
I will call Rabbi Ralbag tomorrow personally or his sons who live in lakewood and verify the above.
But to post absolute stupidity about heating up apple juice with clam juice is an outright lie as i have witnessed. ( btw product is heated with water or steam not with another juice, as is common knowledge to anyone that knows anything about pruduction lines)
att Gaby: learn more about what is going on in your plants and products and save us the laven.
Funny thing? I know the person who actually saw this. Were you there with him?
Contrary to your information above, product can be heated by another product and not just steam or water as you stated. So I guess may learn something from someone else instead of thinking you know every situation.
In addtion have you ever heard of a circular pipe being split (partitioned) with one side running cold product being heated by the other side running hot product. Check it out.
on another issue if the liquidis pasteurized and the other side of the pasteurizer which is filled with liquid (water) is not drained and “properly” koshered from the run before which may be clam juice or any other type of not kosher juice which could contain carmine, grape juice or such, would indeed cause the simple 100% apple juice or orange juice to not be kosher according to halacha. The pasteurizer must be drained and properly kashered before producing any kosher product.