In a fascinating, and unusual half hour private conversation with Rabbi Chaim Baruch (Edgar) Gluck, Rav DovBer Pinson, and Rabbi Zvi Gluck, speaking about the need to teach the world the Oneness of Hashem, the Pope said “the greatest and most important teaching the world needs to hear is “Shema” (the Pope, said this word in Hebrew).
As YWN published earlier on Monday, in continuation of a previous encounter in Poland, the Pope also promised the elder R. Gluck that he would do everything in his power to help assist with the finding and proper Kevurah for those killed, all kidush hashem, in Eastern Europe during the war.
After promising to help with the Kevarim, Rav Pinson opened up a very deep conversation with the pontiff about the responsibility each human being, created with a Tzelem Elokim, has towards each other. And, also, how by recognizing that Hashem Echad and teaching this to the world, the world would be a better, more holier place. The pope showed great interest in the conversation and was clearly moved.
Towards, the end, Rabbi Zvi Gluck, mentioned that he has an organization called Amudim, an organization dedicated to helping abuse victims and those suffering with addiction, the pope, enthusiastically said, there needs to be zero tolerance for child abuse, and that victims must be helped.
Following the meeting, the pope came to greet each of the entire group, comprised of some frum jewish philanthropists, who all asked Da’as Torah before going to this meeting, which was in the private office of the pope, not in the usual place of meeting.
In conclusion, a few niggunim were played – creating more unity for the group as a whole.
As YWN published earlier, in 2014 the Chief Rabbis of Israel met with the Pope, with HaRav Yitzchak Yosef wearing a golden necklace around his neck that had the Luchos on it. At the time, YWN published the reason for this, and related that it was an inheritance from his father, Maran Hagaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef ZATZAL – who himself wore that golden Luchos when he met with previous Popes. Rabbi Gluck senior, wore his Bigdei Shabbos, as the practice of the son of the Chasom Sofer when he met with the Bishop in Poland.
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16 Responses
Catholics do not believe in the oneness of Hashem. They believe in a doctrine of trinity which according to most rishonim is a violation of “lo yehi lecha” and at a minimum “shituf”. Catholics corrupt the meaning of shema (even if they say it in Hebrew) to refer to the Trinity. They use the Hashem, Elokeinu, Hashem found in Shema to refer to their concept of the deity. Please do your research before printing such glowing and misguided reports.
I cannot believe my eyes.
Is this what we have resorted to? How did our beautiful and proud nation, which has withstood centuries of prosecution and oppression at the hands of these “holy” people- crusades, pogroms, blood libels, the Inquisition, the holocaust (!)- reach such a low point?! How can it be that children of the same people who (literally!) bit off their own fingers so as not to play the precious Jewish melodies from the Beis HaMikdash to their oppressors on a foreign land take part in such a shameless and twisted display of flattery? How can you dance and sing Psukkim from our Torah in front of a man who represents a religion which your ancestors gave up their lives to stay away from?! The same Torah, by the way, warns us against exactly this situation- “Lo techunem”, “Lo tachanifu”… Our grandparents from Spira, Vermiza and Magenza, who sacrificed themselves in order to stay true to their religion and their god during this time period are probably rolling in their graves! Not to mention the fact that this is not all a story of the past- not at all! The man before whom you are dancing continues to represent all that is backwards and morally wrong and will admit proudly to an agenda of missionizing your fellow Jews.
How can you sleep at night knowing the great wrong you have done to your people and their history??? HOW?
crazykanoiy – FYI – The REMA and other poskei Ashkenazim (like the Be’er Hagolah who quotes the Masei haShem)) pasken and follow Tosfot shitah that a non-Jew is NOT under the prohibition of Shituf.
I agree with the above comments. And who needs a picture of the pope with his cross adorning the pages of YWN? Totally uncalled for and unnecessary and uninteresting! Please delete it asap!!!
Gaon – Who is talking about the issur of shituf for a non-Jew? My point is that the Catholicism does not believe in the oneness of Hashem as this article would lead you to believe. Tosfos does not disagree with that at most only allows non Jews to believe in dualism.
As an aside shitas tosfos is subject to dispute as some understand that tosfos is only allowing a non-Jew to swear in the name of his deity and not allowing the belief in shituf.
Gaon – Who is talking about the issur of shituf for a non-Jew? My point is that Catholicism does not believe in the oneness of Hashem as this article would lead you to believe. Tosfos does not disagree with that, at most tosfos only allows non Jews to believe in dualism.
As an aside, shitas tosfos is subject to dispute as some understand that tosfos is only allowing a non-Jew to swear in the name of his deity and not allowing the belief in shituf.
crazykanoiy – That is not the final P’sak of the REMA and the Be’er Hagolah, as he clearly quotes the Masei HaShem in Hagadah at ‘Sh’foch Chamascha Al haGoyim’ that the Goyim we reside are NOT considered Ovdei Avoda Zara.
However, you are correct, of course it is considered Avodie Zora for a Jew and, is absolutely forbidden to enter/pray in any church.
The issue at hand, is if you can honor their leaders and that may depend on the above.
Time and again has shown that we gain nothing from bending and appeasing our haters. I bet the pope will do nothing regarding the kvarros in Europe. We need not try to emulate the gedolim of Europe who tried to appease the leaders of the Church. No need to wear the
Bigdei Shabbos, no nead to wear chains, no need to sing and make merry. Times have changed. We have Eretz Yisroel now. We are a nation with honor and dignity. We need not tremble and beg before THEM. Dovid Hamelech,ah, wrote,”esah eynei ell hehorim mayeyin yovo ezri? Ezri mayim Hashem oseh shomayim vaaretz.
Gaon: I get your point regarding non-Jews but my point was not about honoring non-Jews but that the oneness of G-d attributed to the Pope in this story is not compatible with true yichud haboreh or with the true meaning of shema.
Great job crazykanoiy and Gaon. This is exactly what a jewish debate should look like! Ignore the name calling. Points,
The popes “shema” is not our shema even though it uses the same word, it has a different definition.
Gaon, well pointed out. the articles point is not to delve into if the pope follows the rema , tosefot etc.
Comment above: “Time and again has shown that we gain nothing from bending and appeasing our haters…”
That’s not how it turned out by Yaakov and Esav’s crucial reunion.
Yes, it’s only 1 part of a 3-pronged approach, but flattery/appeasement/gifts in this situation is right in line.
Needless to say that besides the fact that I think that the posting on YWN of this visit is out of place, I just wonder what exactly was the reason for this visit? Is there something missing from this story? Why would anyone want to go to the Pope to give him Kuvod?
INTHENAMEOF SANITY couldn’t have been more right!
I am just a simple yiddishe mame…but i redid many Kvorim in Hungary some in Ukraine and Romania…..lately i found my fathers kewer in Germany…for that i did not need to go to the Pope..
On the other hand i did go to tha vatikan to try to meet Kardinal Capucci to try to save the 3 Kidnapped soldiers from Libanon Siria…..by the way with no results.
I also do not understand the wearing of a Stramel ….and the song, maybe i do not get it because i am just a simple yiddishe Mame/Babe/Aelter Babe
By the way if people are looking to find jews burried 2 people in the same whole and want to bring them to Kewer Yisroel there is a a non jewish cemetery in Hamburg Ohlsdorf where Yidden from the Neuengamme Konzentration camp were burried in 1945 as they were killed after the germans abolished the Crematoriums because the allies were arriving and did not want the jews to survive.Anyone having had relatives in Neuengamme Konzentration camp can write to me: [email protected]
crazykanoiy –
“the oneness of G-d attributed to the Pope in this story is not compatible with true yichud haboreh or with the true meaning of shema”
Agreed!
Interesting, that they have some twisted way of trying to explain how their absurd deity and trinity is compatible (see Kisvei Ramban Vol 1) . At the end of the day they still hold themselves as following the Shema despite making no sense.
On the other hand, I recall Rav Yaakov Emden holds that the very concept of Trinity is not Shituf, rather, it is true Avoda Zora, as typical Shituf means there are” two separate supreme forces” as Elokim “Acherim”… and Trinity is rather the other way around.