In reaction to the opening session at the Annapolis Peace Conference, the following statement was issued by the leadership of the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America (aka: the “Orthodox Union”) – in reaction to the statements made by Israeli Prime Minister Olmert and Palestinian President Abbas, as well as the Joint Understanding of the two leaders announced by President Bush:
Amid the commendable efforts by President Bush and Secretary Rice to settle the Israeli-Arab conflict, we are deeply concerned that this latest effort has been launched with a focus more on speed than substance. The Palestinian leadership appears more committed to regaining control of Jerusalem than on restraining terrorists in both the West Bank and Gaza.
We are also concerned that Israeli Prime Minister Olmert did not explicitly resist Palestinian President Abbas’ claim to a piece of Jerusalem. In fact, Mr. Olmert indicated in his address that “the reality created in 1967 will change greatly” and that such a process “is inevitable.” We disagree – the re-division of Jerusalem is not inevitable, nor is it necessary.
In addition, we are deeply troubled that the “Joint Understanding” issued by the Israeli and Palestinian leaders refers to a mutual commitment to “confront terrorism…whether committed by Palestinians or Israelis.” There has been no Israeli action against Palestinians that can possibly be equated with the suicide bombings, roadside shootings, or rocket attacks that have been inflicted on thousands of Israelis in the past several years. The onus for restraining terror is squarely on the Palestinians – and they have so far failed miserably to do so.
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Let us all remember לב מלכים ושרים ביד ה’ and with that we can stop being ma’amin in boser v’dam, rather we shall do teshuvah and increase avodas Hashem
The only way to stop the momentum to give away part of Jerusalem is for all religious parties, including Shas, to leave the government IMMEDIATELY. That would result in the government falling and new elections.
The Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel made it very clear to the Novominsker Rebbe when he visited there that the issue is THE SAFETY OF THE YIDDEN IN JERUSALEM AND ALL OVER ERETZ YISROEL–PERIOD!
Why all the discussion of Zionism and other issues that just confuse everybody?
Olmert is hell bent on committing national suicide.if the quotes mentioned are true he has lost everything.
mr deepthinker
THE SAFETY OF THE YIDDEN IN JERUSALEM AND ALL OVER ERETZ YISROEL- was on the line during the disengagement also. Notice the kassens shot into ashkelon, netivot (charedei community), sderot, and as they get bigger rockets, the rest of the YIDDEN IN ERETZ YISROEL are in danger!!!!!
As I stated in an earlier post, we ALL need to proclaim that:
1) WE THE JEWISH PEOPLE PROCLAIM THAT WE ARE THE RIGHTFULLY DEEDED OWNERS OF THE LAND IN QUESTION.
SAID DEED BEING CLEARLY SHOWN IN THE BIBLE.
2) THAT WE HAVE BEEN TEMPORARILY SENT OUT OF THIS LAND BY OUR CREATOR TO LIVE AMONG THE GENTILES, AND THAT, THOUGH GOD ALLOWS TEMPORARY GENTILE CONTROL OF THIS LAND FROM TIME TO TIME, TITLE REMAINS WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
3) WE THE JEWISH PEOPLE CLEARLY TESTIFY THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT NOW CONTROLLING THIS LAND OF OUR HERITAGE DOES NOT REPRESENT THE JEWISH PEOPLE AS A WHOLE, AND HAS NO RIGHT OR POWER TO DO SO.
4) ANY DEAL, SOLUTION, COMPROMISE, OR ANY OTHER SUCH ARRANGEMENT AGREED TO BY THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE GOVERNMENT CURRENTLY IN CONTROL OF THE LAND OF THE JEWISH HERITAGE, (BUT ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE) IS NOT BINDING ON THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
5) THEREFORE, ANY SUCH AGREEMENT, SIGNED BY MEN WHO MAY REPRESENT THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT OF THIS LAND OF THE JEWISH HERITAGE, (BUT WHO DO NOT REPRESENT THE WORLD’S POPULATION OF JEWISH PEOPLE), WHETHER OR NOT RATIFIED BY ANY GOVERNMENT ANYWHERE, DOES NOT TRANSFER PERMANENT TITLE TO ANYONE, AND THAT NO MATTER WHAT ANY MEN MAY AGREE TO, PERMANENT TENANCY WILL REVERT TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE AS A WHOLE UPON THE COMING OF OUR MESSIAH.
AGAIN: THE LEADERS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL DO NOT REPRESENT THE JEWISH PEOPLE, AND HAVE NEITHER THE RIGHT NOR THE POWER TO GIVE AWAY LAND RIGHTFULLY BELONGING TO US.
THEREFORE: ANY CHANGE OF CONTROL OF SAID LAND IS ONLY TEMPORARY, AND ALL RIGHTS TO SAID LAND WILL REVERT TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE UPON THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH. (THE JEWISH MOSHIACH, AS UNDERSTOOD BY ORTHODOX JUDAISM)
BimHeiru Beyumeini.
The above statement should be promulgated and signed by as many of us as possible, and so published. or else …. MAYBE … the goyim may have a cause of action to block our regaining control of OUR land when Moshiach arrives….
Heck, if Olmert respresents the Jews, and his government is giving away this land, it can be said the Jews have given the land to the Palestinians legally.
After all, if we do not “divorce” ourselves, from any connection with Olmert’s government, and their negotiations, the Jewish People as a whole due to the actions of those in power today, may have a legal or maybe even halachic right to give away Eretz Yisroel permanently.
DM Seriously do you live in LA LA LAND?
“WE the Jewish people proclaim””…to who, why should they care what less than 1/2% of the Jews have to say, lets cry out to avinu bashamayim and be proactive.
Most of our reps in the government are in agreement that this peace conference will accomplish absolutely nothing. Quite honestly, I do believe that they are correct. Unless there is a majority of public approval on both sides of the talks, there will be no compromises, no settlements. The Islamic reps are firmly stating that they will not back Abbas, so we are left with many people who will not adhere to any agreements or decisions made. I highly doubt that there will be any sort of compromises reached.
My Father A”H once taught me. Trust in the BaSherfer completely. But remember, you can purchase 10 gallons of the best paint, a half dozen rollers, pans, brushes and tarps. Place them all in the middle of the living room floor of your home, and say, “Hashem, I trust you completely, paint my house for me.”
My Father promised me, that a week later the house would remain unpainted.
Of course we need to cry out to Hashem! That goes without saying. Everyone knows that!
But, at the same time whatever we can physically do is our job to do.
Just like if you are crossing the street, and a truck is about to run you over, you don’t stop and cry out to Hashem, YOUR RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN, and cry to Hashem while you are running.
I just don’t want the world courts to say, “The Jews gave that land to the Palestinians. Don’t listen to them whine now. It now belongs to the Palestinians.”
I want at least somewhere it should be remembered that Olmert and company DID NOT REPRESENT ME. HE NEVER DID, AND NEVER WILL..
Let is cry out to Hashem Yisborach, but at the same time have major protests to show the world that the Jewish People are not giving the land away, only the leaders of the State of Israel are, and that they do not represent the Jewish People.
DM:
Fear not. When Moshiach comes, even the goyim will recognize the rishus of the tziyonim, and will not mistake the actions of the zionists with representing that of Judaism.
Let’s look at the positive side of this development:
The SATMAR REBBE, ZT”l, said that the Zionist MeDina must come to an end, before Moshiach comes.
Perhaps that is what is happening seeing before our very eyes right now!
deepthinker:
I have no doubt that will come about. The Satmar Rebbe/Rov is right.
But, I still pray that:
1) It is done without loss of Human and especially Jewish lives. Remember, those Israeli soldiers, even the majority who are not frum at all, are tinokim sheshishbau, and we must pray to Hashem Yisborach that we do not loose Yiddishe lives, frum or not frum.
2) If we lose Eretz Yisroel to the Goyim taking it away from us in war, is one thing. If we GIVE it to them, they may have a teina to Moshiach saying we GAVE it to them therefore there may be yiush of our rights. I heard this svora from a Yeshivish Rov. I do not know its validity. He was certainly not sure, just “trachting”
Either way, it is best to not lose our land by giving it away.
Or, if it MUST be given to the Palestinians and/or Arabs, we, the Jewish People might could publicize that the Israeli government does not represent us, or our rights. That the Jewish People do not relinquish their rights to the Land of their Heritage, and will claim it back when Moshiach comes. Thereby maybe eliminating the Yiush issue, if it is one.
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But, I have no doubt the Satmar Rov ZY’U was right. Remember, his was only one name among many who said the same thing.
As one “modern orthodox” Yemenite Rov told me: “Satmar Rebbe’s Shita? It is all in the Igeret L’Taiman! The Rambam clearly told us to stay in Taiman, and not move back to Eretz Yisroel in mass, as it would be a violation os the 3 shavuos.”
And he too agreed that the MeDina must fall before Moshiach could come. He said that the MeDina was M’Akeiv the Geula, and as long as the MeDina was there, it would absolutely prevent Moshiach’s arrival.
I only hope, and pray to Hashem that it is with zero or the least possible bloodshed.
It was the position of Horav Shach to give back land for peace. He said so publicly and privately. If he would have been living today, obviasly Aguda would NOT have come out with a public statement against giving Yerushalaim.
#1- Your turkey dinner has clouded your mind. This current round of peace talks is all a show before Bush and Israel can attack Iran. They need the world’s haskama before they attack and all of this is a way of uniting everyone for the eventual attack. Everyone knows the Arabs can’t keep a deal. It’s all a show! Your beloved Clinton only cared about himself while bush cares about the world and realizes the true threat is not the palestinians but rather the Iranians.
DM.
i am sure that your father a”h taught you many good things , but here he erred.had he had COMPLETE TRUST in HASHEM , so far as to swear that in a week it WILL be painted , it WOULD have been painted.but he didn’t believe that could happen, so it didn’t.
post # 7:
YOU CONFUSE THE FACTS IN YOU STATEMENT #1.
THE LAND DOES NOT BELONG TO US OR DEEDED. IT BELONGS TO G-D ALONE HE IS THE OWNER OF ERETZ YISROEL AND THE WHOLE WORLD AND BECAUSE YOU CONFUSE THAT YOU NEED TO RETHINK THE OTHERS TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE TRUE AS WELL. LOOK AT THE FIRST RASHI IN BREISHIS! THE LAND BELONGS TO G-D AND HE HAS GIVEN THE JEWS PRIMARY RESIDENCE THERE IN THEIR IDEAL POSITION AS THE ONLY PLACE ON EARTH WHERE THE TORAH CAN BE PROPERLY KEPT. BECAUSE THE PURPOSE OF CREATION WAS THAT HUMANKIND–AND KLAL YISROEL BECAUSE WE CHOSE TO REPRESENT G-D IN THIS WORLD–SHOULD KEEP THE TORAH AND MITZVOS. I THINK WHEN YOU SEE THE WORLD IN THIS LIGHT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE THE HIJACKERS OF G-DS LAND–THOSE WHO OPPOSE G-D AND HIS TORAH AND PEOPLE–ARE NOT THE ULTIMATE DECISION-MAKERS OF WHAT G-D DOES WITH HIS SPECIAL CORNER ON EARTH. G-D IS MORE THAN QUALIFIED TO DECIDE WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN THERE AND IT IS FOR US ONLY TO LOOK ABOVE FOR HIS FAVOR IN OUR ACTIONS.
does this mean that mashiach can come if this dividing of jerusalem occurs??thats good news..
however lets hope that no jewish lives get lost in the battle of gog imagog
Klal Yisroel, you have read half of the position of Rav Shach zt”l, “to give back land for peace.. to save even one neshama yisroel””. Rav Shach was speaking of pikuach nefesh, that is done, over with, dream of the past, and mainly the fantasy of the Litvush world (who did not fully comprehend the viciousnes, cruelty and animalistic behavior of the Arab velt), while the Sefradic Rabbanim who lived in the Middle East with these behamoes, NEVER EVER trusted or believed in ‘land for peace’.