This statement, generated through discussions with members of Torah Umesorah’s Vaad
Roshei Yeshiva, should be regarded as a chavas daas.
There needs to be clarity on the part of mechanchim/os that the entire chain of events
regarding Chaim Walder – from the perpetrations of aggravated abuse to the
unconscionable manner in which the episode terminated – is a horrific saga of chilul
Hashem. It should further be clear that the so-called “allegations” committed by the
perpetrator have been determined by reputable dayonim in Eretz Yisroel to be facts.
The guidance that we need to give to our talmidim/os includes the notion that while
Walder’s books have inspired so many for so long, the now widely-known nature of his
character and his actionsindicate the removal of his books from school and home libraries
as the recommended course of action, as the discussions that could be generated
surrounding the author himself and the wrongs he committed would be most harmful.
Again, this should be regarded as a chavas daas rather than a psak.
What goes hand in hand with this is the concept that there can be a complete disconnect
between an individual’s talent and the evil that he commits… with the result that the
talent is to be discounted as irrelevant in such cases.
As for the appallingly tragic end to the Walder story, it must be borne in mind that when
a person, of his own volition, has committed a crime of such magnitude, he has opted
away from Torah. There can be no justification for that choice. The real focus of tragedy,
then, is the terrible impact that was perpetrated upon his victims; our compassion is
correctly directed at them alone.
As for mechanchim themselves, one central concept emerges in this context. As Torah
educators, it is imperative that we always remember to foster an atmosphere of kedushah
and personal modesty.
May the Av Horachamim have mercy upon Klal Yisroel, and may we be spared further
anguish in the future.
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53 Responses
Who cares? I can easily purchase these wonderful books on Amazon & e-bay, and better these books than Harry Potter books, and no-one has made any mention of discarding Harry Potter books.
It must be remembered that the majority of us defended Walder until he did did the unthinkable- instead of trying to defend himself to the public that MOSLTY defended him, he penned a very manipulative letter and killed himself at his son’s kever. And that’s when people started waking up to the reality of this terrible story because is he would’ve been innocent would’ve defended himself particlurlay that the majority of the public did not believe the “rumors” about him. And yet, after his suicide we were told by many leaders, that we killed him, that it’s loshen hora to talk about it, that it has to be taken care of quietly… For shame. I have not doubt that many knew the true face of Chaim Walder for decades and hushed up the reality. And therefore the blood of the innocent victims, even if they are alive, but the blood shed by Walder is upon their hands.
Enough is enough. Stop defending abusers. Many of us are not stupid to believe that every allegation is true, io investigations do need to be done, but when it is determined that an abuser is an abuser, do not shush up the story screaming about loshen hora and the sin of shaming someone in public. Our focus should be on preventing more people, children as well as adults, from becoming victims of abuse (yes sometimes adults can be victims through masterful manipulations by abusers).
“The discussions that could be generated surrounding the author himself and the wrongs he committed would be most harmful.”
Um, no. We need to have those discussions. Stop trying to hide it all.
“As for mechanchim themselves, one central concept emerges in this context. As Torah educators, it is imperative that we always remember to foster an atmosphere of kedushah and personal modesty.”
How about fostering an atmosphere where children are encouraged to speak up without fear of backlash or not being taken seriously?
Torah Umesorah, you missed an opportunity here.
Few questions:
Who are these “reputable dayonim in Eretz Yisroel” who declared the accusations “to be facts”.
There was no such statement before the “ending” of this episode. Was there a yishuv beis din afterwards for some reason? Why would they have a yishuv beis din after the baal davar is no longer around?
Why didn’t those dayanim release any statement or psak? So far all the dayanim from Eretz Yisroel who released statments claim there was no yishuv beis din.
And lastly, why didn’t the Vaad Rosh HaYeshivos sign this letter? This is a pretty serious matter. Why is the Director signing and no the Rosh HaYeshivos themselves?
GIVE HONOR WHERE IT IS DUE.
Our Rabbis have spoken and are declaring quite clearly that we don’t push this under the rung!
Yehudis21 – No where is there any indication that we “fostering an atmosphere where children are discouraged to speak up with fear of backlash or being taken seriously” Please!!
People think perfection is attainable because of whatever reason but perfection is not attainable. As Nietzsche wrote “human, all too human”, that is what took place here. Everyone has demons and it would be nice if educators would help remove the stigma surrounding “issues” so people can know its okay not having perfect feelings and learn that our job is to deal with issues and work through them in line with torah values but not think we are deviants or pariahs because we don’t fit a cookie cutter model. Banning the book of an imperfect human just drains the baby with the bath water and doesn’t even get at the heart of the problem albeit its probably the politically correct move and makes for a nice press release. I highly doubt any kid in middle school even knows the name walder appears on the books.
i’d never heard of him or his sefarim until i read about his passing.
Att: poster “147”
Why in the world would you compare walder’s books to Harry Potter?
Did the author of Harry Potter abuse and rape children???
Use your sense…
All three Dayanim on the Bais Din spoke publicly about their findings.
All others that denounce the Bais Din did not even bother speaking to the Dayanim other than the famous Berlan defender Nisin Ben Shimon which can not be believed on these matters.
Here you have one the Dayanim https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ziTNU_mZOjI
These are the words of an opportunist taking advantage of a unfortunate situation where a presumably sane man was driven from his sanity until he committed the unthinkable, as stated by Rav Geshon Shlit”a. It fits right in with the narrative of the newest ‘crisis’ of molestation and abuse. These obsessionists finally realized that they don’t control the world with the shidduch crisis so they turned to their newest obsession. I only hope that CW is the last korbon.
My comment was directed at @Yehudis21, not at Harav Nojowitz, chalila. I’m sorry that this was omitted.
@philosopher: Which Dayan, Rosh Yeshivah or Godel supports your statement?
Your piece of junk is clearly against ALL the Gedolim in E”Y, in particular Harav Gershon Edelstein Shlita, Rosh Yeshivah of Ponevez.
Likewise, Rabbi Nojowitz has to provide a shred of evidence and Rabbinical support for his letter.
Given the general audience for these books, I hardly think kids will be discussing child abuse, if they even know what it means, or are aware of what happened.
philosopher and those who insist that we “shine a light” on the problem: I have a very difficult time understanding your argument. What evidence has ever been presented that shows that if everyone talks about a person who did a bad thing, that bad thing happens less frequently? Does abuse happen less in the goyishe world where there are no rules of loshon hora? And why would it be true anyway? How does you speaking loshon horo about a dead Walder help prevent the next sicko who wants to abuse someone? And if it were true that speaking about evil helps stop it then why did the torah give us laws of loshon hora which say dont speak about evil even if its true? And is your rule true for all crimes? if someone committed murder, do you advocate that we all speak about it to stop the next murder?
I simply see no connection. Of course, people in Israel who may have considered sending their child to a therapist who may be an abuser must be notified right away as soon as there is a chashash but why must Americans who never heard of this guy – and will have never encountered him in their lives – speak about him? What good does it do anyone and isn’t it a direct violation of loshon hora?
I simply do not understand.
okay2,
I don’t think that Dayan is who this letter was referring to. This letter was put out by Torah Umesorah who would not consider a Beis Din on the far left as a “reputable Dayanim”. That Beis Din is not from our circles.
Besides, I just listened to a few minutes where that Dayan said there was no Yishiv Beis Din, because the baal din didn’t come to them.
He had every right not to go to a beis din who already made up their minds and who already to the media with the story.
The Beis Din he did try going to already went public saying the original Beis Din mishandled this.
Bottom line: If there is a reputable Beis din who issued a psak, and paskened after his death for some reason, there would be a letter from that Beis Din.
To ban his books and take away the parnassah of his innocent almanah and yesomim needs a psak of a Gadol.
Where are the names of the Rosh Hayeshivas? Why are they missing from this letter? (My assumption is that most of the Rosh Hayeshivas of the Vaad do not agree with this.)
@147 and @belev echad whom ever said that Harry Potter is ok, it’s not ok even if the author didn’t do anything.
@David the only rabbis that say what you say are the one’s from the Bnei Brak fraction and a few Mizrachi oner . All other’s say not like him. A couple of them were posted here.
And regarding the statement from Rabbi Edelstein, it seems that every few days they change the statement. Even Rabbis Eichenstein and Rubin wrote letters that didn’t exactly match all these hearsay statements before it’s changed once again.
Especially since that first statement that accused the victims of murder!!, whether it was meant that way or not, is such a dangerous statement, that it is absolutely forbidden to be Mekabel that he said it. And until convicted in Bais Din for making such a statement there is no way it’s Mutar to believe it. As you see officially family members already said that others added that part.
@Groissechucham. There is a big difference between imperfection and doing evil things – even if those evil thing stem from Taava and not from wickedness.
People abusing their power, especially heroes to children – are dangerous
Thanks for stating the abvios. These past few weeks have proven that the obvious needs to be stated. Sad testimony to what the education system has done to the Jewish people.
The one ( out of the dozens ) reason to me that makes the most sense is that any child that went through an abusive situation may feel scarred each time they see his books. For that reason alone is why we should get rid of all of the books. The fact that this became such a public issue ( which it should in my opinion ) will torment any child who was ever abused and sees his books.
Just expressing my own views but I may be wrong.
@MordechaiHatzadik you totally missed the boat. Read the letter again; the ‘Rabbis’ (as you call them) clearly say to refrain from discussing these topics are actually harmful and therefore recommend removing his books – to discourage conversation about molestation and abuse.
Were it my place, I would like to extend a heartfelt yasher koach to R’ Nojowitz for releasing this statement notwithstanding the risk of the back-lash it will surely invite. This insanity has gotten out of hand; hopefully this will finally put a stop to this.
See Rav Moshe Meiselman, Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivas Toras Moshe in EY explaining the Chaim Walder case: https://nermichoel.org/galleries/videoshiurim-detail/id/3404
“These obsessionists finally realized that they don’t control the world with the shidduch crisis so they turned to their newest obsession”
Guteyid: Shidduch crisis??? Please get help.
@Annonymouschochom
There were several beis dinim held, and quite a number of rabbis and dayanim involved, but at the time were kept mostly anonymous in order to protect the privacy of the victims.
It’s sick that people couldn’t use their common sense beforehand. Learn Sefer Chafetz Chaim! When there are witnesses who can attest that someone committed a severe aveirah, that is sufficient. It is a mitzva to publicize it, and to vilify the perpetrator.
Learn it! People don’t seem to care about lashon hara, except when it’s the halacha NOT to be silent.
Learn learn learn!
If Rav Gershon Edelstein says otherwise, I am nobody to argue. But then he is clearly being cholek on the Chafetz Chaim.
i keep on hearing THE DAYANIM. i didnt see the name of ONE dayan in this article. are they afraid of something.
Moderators Response: Here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ziTNU_mZOjI
Rav Meiselman also discussed who the Bais Din was https://nermichoel.org/galleries/videoshiurim-detail/id/3404
I am so proud of Torah Umesorah for standing up against the mindless kanaim like those on this chat who have. been parading in chareidi malbushei kavod for way too long. Rabbosai, we all are guilty of doubting the obvious because we were told it’s a Torah principle. Ad masai? How many victims does it take for a bar seichel to figure out we were wrong and we have actually enabled such a blatantly sordid horror story to be thinkable thought. There is rishus among us that needs to be outed. Get it? Listen to the ferds on this chat trying to be melamed zchus on someone who had 22 claimants (many of them tayere children!!) and ended up committting murder on himself, in stark violation of our Torah — the ultimate cruelty to his wife and children.
I don’t know why yw is not posting what other rabbonim are saying like rabbi Moshe meiawlman
httpss://vinnews.com/2022/01/06/rav-moshe-meiselman-walder-is-a-rasha-merusha-see-the-video/
Or rabbi Yitzchak Berkovits
https://vinnews.com/2022/01/02/watch-rav-yitzchak-berkovits-on-chaim-walder-narcissism-at-its-best/
Or what rabbi Edelstein shlita did say and say to say in his name this was published after the first article that was said in the rav’s name https://vinnews.com/2021/12/31/official-response-to-walder-affair-by-rabbi-edelstein-shlita-these-matters-must-be-dealt-with-confidentially/
Yes @Gadolhadorah, when did you hear about the shidduch crisis last? Or maybe you are still living in the past (as it seems from some of your wacky posts)?? I’m not saying that there is no crisis, only that it’s not discussed like it used to be.
How could the beis din determine the that allegations are a fact without hearing walders side of the story?!
Rav Meissleman does mention Dayonim, But he was clearly misinformed. There never was a yishuv Beis Din. He talks about Beis Din cross examining both sides. But the two “Dayanim” he mentions said themselves they never cross examined.
He also says 22 women testified in Beis Din, while the “Dayanim” also said it was not 22 people. It was a few people who came on behalf of 22 people. All was eid mipi eid.
He says the women went to the media, while it was the dayan before the Yishuv Beis Din.
His comparison between the one case when he was accused to CW is beyond ridiculous.
THE REAL ISSUE in this speech:
He is coming to brush away and knock down Reb Gershon shlita. In a general way. He starts off by hinting Reb Gershon, or Reb Chaim for that matter, are the types of Gedolim that don’t understand K’lal Inyanim.
He speaks very harshly against the opinion of Reb Gershon. And he knows who he is speaking against.
(The mayor of Bnei Brak claims Reb Chaim told him to be maspid, and it’s a mitzva to do so. So this speech is against Reb Chaim too.)
This type of hashkafah is completely against the mehalech K’lal Yisroel has been guided with for generations. Completely against the mehalech of all of the Gedolim in the Yeshiva world.
@MosheFromMidwood. Sadly you are out of touch with todays children. They know. They talk among themselves. They are exposed to far far more than you realize. HaRav Nojowitz did not buy his position, he earned it. We would do well to heed his words. You may be misreading them. When he refers to the books on our shelves generating discussion, I humbly think he means among the kids themselves. One tells the other, Oh I see you are reading..did you know…. Do we want our kids educated like that? Yes we must from a young age teach them about personal kavod and holiness. I am waiting for the guidelines and instructions from our Rabbanim regarding counseling and psychological or psychiatric care . Perhaps cameras in rooms, or one way mirrors etc.
I don’t understand. Is there anything bad written in the books? Do they have to burn down his house too because he lived there? On which din is this based on? Btw I don’t believe the stories a d I have no right to believe them. I’ve never spoken to the victims nor the abuser as an outsider I still keep the books.
I cant understand why religious people are supporting Walder.they want to hide everything.they thing because they frum they allowed to do anything.But critical others is allowed. The should wash there one laundry and not talk about others.Do they realy think there better than others.
“Annonymouschochom”
If you don’t pasken like the Rambam (Hilchos Sanhedrin 24:5) that he mentions in the Shiur, I’m very open-minded and happy to hear your understanding of this Sugya.
Gut Shabbos
Hashem yerachem. This clearly well intentioned letter written by a true gem of a human is sadly and infuriatingly a total dumpster fire on so many levels. I am certain it was compiled by a committee as the signed author alone would have produced something far more eloquent in its wording, logical in its structural arrangement, compassionate and pained in its tone, precise and transparent in its facts, clear in its directives and opinion, thoroughly refined in its between-the-lines implications and most importantly, more deeply empathic to the victims and survivors who might read it.
Our problems grow bigger and darker but our generation grows weaker and shallower. Hashem yerachem.
It was in his capacity as a therapist that these abuses were facilitated for the most part.
Personally, I have never been a big fan of therapists male or female as they tend to destroy more then they correct. This is not the first time that therapy has been an entry ticket into allowing this to happen.
The following book is a must to read prior to sending a child for therapy or even going yourself
Rabbonim who are oftern therapy happy would do themselves a favor by reading it as well.
Beware the Talking Cure: Psychotherapy May Be Hazardous to Your Mental Health Paperback – September 1, 1994
Are there no videos to see what talmidey chachomim say on this which are NOT on Youtube??! Some of us actually listen to the gedolei Yisroel and don’t have access to Youtube!!!!
@anonymouschochom all these things you claim about the Bais Din you know as fact? You were there or is this just what the Bnei Brak fraction party people and papers are saying as fact? Did you hear or see a personal letter written by Rabbi Eidelstein or is it all from others in his name? Do you think R Chaim knows any details that weren’t told to him or do you think that whatever he was told is what he knows? Did you hear him saying anything about it or is it also just what everyone in that city etc is saying and media printing? Do you have any idea that your messages is blatant chutzpa and rabbi Meiselman actually
knows very well about Mesora and what was the Mehalech for generations?
Btw HARAV Aron Yarchi and HARAV Reuvein Nakar are NOT Mizrachi. They are both regular Chareidi one Sephardi and one Ashkenazi respectively. And both are Dayanim Mumchim with a ton of experience especially in this field.
Btw HARAV Aron Yarchi and HARAV Reuvein Nakar are NOT Mizrachi. They are both regular Chareidi one Sephardi and one Ashkenazi respectively. And both are Dayanim Mumchim with a ton of experience especially in this field.
Did those that bash them actually speak to and hear from them? Did those that bash anyone actually speak and hear from the victims?
@anonymouschochom…why don’t you read beis din psak and then comment…you obviously don’t even understand how this works.
@josephblumenburg yes you do have a right to beleive these stories because there was already a psak its not on you to decide what you need to beleive….the amount of money you save by keeping the books won’t get near the amount you will need to spend on therapy.
@monseyss or @annonomouschochom
You are so off the mark
You spoke publicly last friday, how it is all Loshon Horah, but spewed your own hatred and Loshon Horah on Gedolim that you disagree with.
You are doing the same thing here as well.
Who are you to continue your denials of all the facts. You claim you did research. Does that allow you a free card in the Loshon Horah club? or is it only Loshon Horah if it is against a known public offender?
What is your deal?
Tell us what is behind your zeal to protect cw?
your not such a chochom and your not so anonymous!
scr we know who you are
One of the Dayanim discussing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsmxzgncXmY
I love Harry Potter. Just saying.
Females should only go to female therapists and males to male therapists. That will resolve this issue for the future to a great extent. Otherwise we will see this problem recur every few years.
There are People earlier in this thread who believe CW to be innocent…..
Can they explain why this charismatic and powerful figure in Beni Brak killed himself on the basis of nonsense rumors? In the history of klal yisroel we have NEVER heard of frum people committing suicide because of false rumours/ They stay alive and fight to clear their name.
Magenu.org has a Frum educational program to teach Parents, Hanhalla of yeshivos, Rabbeim, Teachers, and Children on how to protect kids from CSA (Child Sexual Abuse).
Lots of information on their website.
R’ Shmuel Kaminetsky Shlita said “Its a Derech Eretz Program and should be in every cheder”.
When did Yiddishkeit turn into a never-ending childish game of gedoylim top trumps???
Why do we need to wheel out elderly gedoylim and bicker about political nonsense as a replacement for understanding basic halocho???
It is so so so simple.
The crimes we are talking about here is the rape of children.
There is an obvious chiyuv deoirasah (under loo sa’amoid al dam reyechoh) to both report this, and to publicise this, to avoid others becoming victims in other ongoing situations, and to save the lives of other victims.
The people sitting on the fence are literally causing other people to die – just days after CW, a victim killed herself due to the dangerous and brainless ‘sitting on the fence stance’ that we are seeing.
The Tzfas B”D lacked jurisdiction over the case. The defendant wasn’t from Tzfas but from another city. Furthermore, the Tzfas B”D was a zionist B”D whereas the defendant was not zionist but from another community completely. Additionally, the defendant chose an alternative B”D, as was his halachic right.
And most egregiously the “Av B”D” of Tzfas was doing a media tour within days of the Ha’arerz report that started the accusations, where he was stating the accusations were true. And the Av B”D continued his media tour, giving interviews to secular newspapers and radio stations declaring the defendant guilty before he even completed his B”D proceedings. Not only that, but he conducted his “trial” in absentia, kneged very basic halachos of butei dinim. Not only did he interview accusers without the presence of the defendant, he didn’t even interview the actual accusers but rather third-parties who supposedly spoke on behalf of the accusers.
Finally, after the defendant was no longer alive, he continued his media tour declaring him guilty despite the fact that there clearly was no alleged threat to society from a deceased person.
To: UJM
OK, so let’s start with the Rambam Hilchos Sanhedrin 24:5.
This is based on 2 Gemoros as explained by the Kesef Mishnah.
No Eidim required.
AC: Sanhedrin 24:5 has nothing to do with this case. The defendant had no bad reputation before the secular newspaper article first appeared a few weeks ago. The Rambam specifically says it only applies to someone who had a continuously bad reputation. Secondly, that Rambam specifically says it doesn’t apply to someone known to have enemies. The accused in this case, as a result of his therapy work often dealing with people accused of wrongdoing and his activity to stop the wrongdoing, made enemies.
By the Rambam’s own words he excludes application of this Rambam to this case for two unique reasons, either one alone being sufficient.