46 Responses

1. I guess you think you know better then rav Gershon edelstein hamalbin es pnei chaveiro birabim ein lo cheleck bioilam haba

2. Finally!

3. I read a very clear interview that Rav Shlomo Kamenetzky gave to Mental health professionals in regard to this case. He said that the Beis Din was reliable and Chachmim, and therefore we can rely on their psak. Why cant the Yeshiva world post something from a reliable source to help people work this trauma through? Did your board decide not to post as to not get involved? Left wondering where does this site stand in our community? With the ones who always believed in the view in shoving it under the rug?

4. It’s possible YWN is following advice from gedolim:

   https://vinnews.com/2021/12/31/official-response-to-walder-affair-by-rabbi-edelstein-shlita-these-matters-must-be-dealt-with-confidentially/

   The problem is that this policy unfortunately aids the abusers.

   However in today’s day people are no longer willing to let high-profile abusers get away with it because they finally found a way to bring them down and protect the victims via social media!

   If we had a system that works in a way that was effective and enforceable then things would probably not have to go public.

   On other sites you can view excellent responses by Rabbi Eisenman, Rabbi YY Jacobson, Rabbi Shimon Russel, Rabbi Yanky Horowitz, etc.

5. Right on! You said it! Thank you for saying it! This idiocy that lashon hara should be our gravest concern regarding this horror story is insane. That its not addressed and used as a teachable moment is tragic . May cw yemach shemo and others of his ilk receive the gehinnom they so justly deserve leolam vaed.

6. It’s possible YWN is following the hadracha from Rabbi Edelstein who says that these matters must be dealt with confidentially.

   The problem is that this policy unfortunately aids the abusers.

   However in today’s day people are no longer willing to let high-profile abusers get away with it because they finally found a way to bring them down and protect the victims via social media!

   If we had a system that works in a way that was effective and enforceable then things would probably not have to go public.

   On other sites you can view excellent responses by Rabbi Eisenman, Rabbi YY Jacobson, Rabbi Shimon Russel, Rabbi Yanky Horowitz, etc.

7. Thank you so much for writing in. I had reached out to the Yeshiva world asking why they did not publish any form of response but did not get a reply. Like you, I am not a victim/nor do I know any, but my heart breaks from the silence of this website, and other frum websites. My heart breaks for those who are forced to suffer for years and years in their own silence.
   May Hashem heal them

8. Thank you.

9. Yes we have to make sure this does not happen again and support the victims but by talking about it did you hear what he did he’s a this and a that is not going to help anyone the only way is to be on the look out the whole time for such things and report it straight away not 20 years after it starts but think about his family what it has done to them as well and not let’s be the cause for more suicidal actions

10. I read this Rivka Cohens letter how she seemed upset that YWN avoided discussing the CW story. I was very impressed that the vast majority of chareidi news sites avoided reporting it. There was nothing to be gained by harping on this tragedy. So many tens of thousands of kids read his books so why confuse them. My little daughter overheard that chaim walder died and was sad. I did not tell her he committed suicide. I just told her he died of Corona. I don’t believe we need to confuse young minds. I am also not removing his books from my house. As an American I never had any of my kids look to meet an author of a book they read. I feel by harping on this story it only increases the pain to his family. As far as keeping children safe every normal Yeshiva has put in glass doors to their classrooms or put up cameras. No school wants to be sued. There are anti religious forces looking to continue harping against our communities as a means to destroy us. Yes parents in every community be they jewish or not must keep their eyes on who their children’s friends are as well as neighbors. One must be careful of guests that are invited when one has children. Do not have guests who may poison young peoples minds. If you do Kiruv you must be extra vigilant. If you need to debate against atheism or evolution,do it in a private room away from kids. Let the CW issue die down and let each parent decide if they want to keep the books. Friend of mine suggested just cut out his name. Kids don’t care who wrote a book as long as they enjoy it. Let’s be Mispalel for peace.

11. thank you Rivka Cohen

12. Your embarrassed? You state openly that you aren’t a survivor nor is anyone you know.
    So let be be frank. KEEP QUIET!

    See I grew up with this stuff happening all around me. I watched it happen, stopped it from happening, and cried when it happened. you see, i knew victims, AND i knew the perpetrators. Perspective.

    One thing I did learn from all this, many times in the rush to help a victim people turn on a (SUPPOSED) perpetrator. They do so with ruthless coldness, believing this to be the best way to support the victim.

    THIS IS A LIE!!!

    ANY THERAPIST WHO PROMOTES SUCH SHOULD LOSE THEIR LICENSE. And any organization, (yes, amudim, I mean you) should do some SERIOUS soul searching and redirection.

    So. I dont know about the specifics of the case. You contend that 22 people who dont know each other, live near each other ect. wouldnt lie. That IS a strong argument, though you glaringly forget about possible social media contact, or copycat syndrome.

    But that isnt the point I attempt to make. The point is I DONT KNOW if he did or didnt, nor do I know of a conclusive investigation. I believe THAT is why there haven’t been as many articles as you would like. I think the websites did a fine job of reporting on the matter as it stands. Murkiness.

    In short, ALL THAT IS GOING ON HERE IS A “WITCH HUNT” FOR A MAN DEEMED GUILTY PREMATURELY, JUST TO ASSUAGE THAT PART OF US THAT WANTS TO LEND HAND TO THE VICTIM.

    THE GREATEST ATROCITIES HAVEALWAYS BEEN EXCUSED AS A RESPONSE TO VICTIMHOOD!!!

    And as of yet this is no different.

    This story is a sad and terrible saga, No victim should be left in the cold, and no per should get a pass. But your “logical” claim that the number of people coming forward, proves his guilt, just wont make the cut.

13. Your comment is based on complete speculation and you are fabrication facts. . .

    YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING TO BE FACT

    22 people? do you know them? does anyone know them besides for a single rabbi eliyahu? Did anyone specifically a professional pick apart their stories to verify trUth miraculously? they are all anonymous expect what is stopping it from being a lie? if they came out in public you can make the assumption they are not lying but they are not public, no one know them or snything, just building a case on faulty foundation

    we can also perpetuate claims that there were 40 people, no one know ans there is apparently no barometer for verification

14. How do you know that they do not know each other,how do you know that they do not know each other?

    How do you know there they are from all different spectrums and ages?

    also miraculous that they all ended up speaking to the same single person prior to it being publicized

15. Rats, why do you lie to your daughter? If you lie about small things, she will question everything else when she grows up. This is basic common sense in chinuch. Your white lie is actually a major harm to your child

16. There is a major flaw with the following argument:

    “I am a thinking logical person who knows that when 22 people say they were molested by the same man (not to mention all the other evidence) they are not lying. People don’t usually lie about being molested. It is not really something people want to flaunt. Definitely not 22 of them. 22 people who don’t even know each other, don’t live near each other, don’t all just come up with the same story.”

    In the USA, there are far more than 22 people who claim that they were abducted (and molested/experimented) by aliens. These people don’t know each other, are aware the story might be ridiculed, and yet they insist that the same or very similar experience happened to them.

    Following the logic of the writer, these 22++ people must be telling the truth, and aliens are abducting, molesting, conducting experiments on humans. At least that’s the conclusion that “must” be reached by any “thinking logical person”.

17. Nothing is proven. It just make his guilt highly likely. Amudim is absolutely correct in decrying the outburst of protection of his reputation as compared to the relative silence of compassion for the victims. You, chash, are guilty of giving greater weight to the wrong cause. Helping a victim is not about shaming the accused perpetrator, it’s about supporting people who are obviously hurting, regardless of whether or not their claims are verified.

18. YWN offered to pay for my therapy for questioning this

19. No one is claiming proof of guilt. You don’t need proof of guilt to go to the authorities & report someone to begin an investigation. You don’t need a proof of guilt to warn people about a potential predator in their midst. If you wait for proof of guilt, many more people may be harmed before you get the proof. It’s actually very difficult to reach an absolute proof of guilt in these cases. What you can get is a raglayim ledovor, which means a significant amount of circumstantial evidence has been uncovered which points to a clear suspicion of abuse.
    That is enough to go to the police report him as per the the American Gedolei Yisroel as stated at the Torah Umesorah convention, & Rav Elyoshiv. I don’t know the Israeli shittah as of now. The bottei Din who were mefarsem their opinion hold that enough evidence was gathered & there was a clear danger that the person would hurt others. There is a lav in the Torah of Lo saamod Al Dam Reiacha, & once a clear suspicion has been reached, it’s a chiyuv to save others from harm, even if in the end we might find out that we were wrong about the suspicion we had about the person & he is completely innocent. Of course, once the danger has passed, it would need to be publicized that it was a mistake. Over the next few days & weeks, I believe a different opinion will emerge from the Torah leadership in the US over the way this case was dealt with in E. Y.

20. 1. We must take HaGaon HaRav Gershon Edelstein shlita’s Psak on this recent tragedy to heart, very seriously, and follow Rav Gershon Edelstein’s words.

    2. As an interesting aside, leading DL/RZ Rabbi Shlomo Aviner has said essentially the same thing as Rav Gershon Edelstein regarding this tragedy.

    3. There was no conviction in Beis Din of bah al eishes ish in this case. Or, for that matter, of ANY thing else at all. If there’s even an accuser, it is anonymous. The accused never was even given his day in Beis Din.

    4. All the accusers are anonymous. All the accusations are hearsay. Even the number of accusers is all based merely on media reports, which have zero credibility. For all we know they are all completely fictitious.

    5. The rogue so-called dayan/”rabbi” who conducted a “beit din” trial in absentia, KNEGED HALACHA, has no credibility whatsoever, his a Kangaroo “beit din” notwithstanding. Rav Gershon Edelstein shlita said, as a result of his pubic accusations without a true Beis Din, that fellow with the kipa sruga covered up by a black hat lost his chelek in Olam Habah, he has blood on his hands and is responsible for driving the person to mental insanity resulting in taking his own life.

21. Why are you claiming he has been deemed guilty prematurely? This was a ruling of the Beis din based on much evidence, including audio recording of him threatening a victim.
    If he was innocent, he would not rush to kill himself.

22. I will admit it. I do not agree with a lot of what the abuse say is required thinking and behavior at this time. Not only that I think they caused a lot of collateral damage (ironically the person I think they damaged the most by their screaming was an alleged victim)Am I a terrible person who protects and enables abusers? You may think so. Are you going to change my mind? Not if you scream that at me or tell me how stupid I am for thinking differently than you(which is the response I always got when I used to post on these areas. ) Am I going to change your mind? No chance. I won’t even try. So let’s stop this conversation. Nothing good is going to come out of it

23. This should read

    I will admit it. I do not agree with a lot of what the abuse ACTIVISTS say is required thinking and behavior at this time. Not only that I think they caused a lot of collateral damage (ironically the person I think they damaged the most by their screaming was an alleged victim)Am I a terrible person who protects and enables abusers? You may think so. Are you going to change my mind? Not if you scream that at me or tell me how stupid I am for thinking differently than you(which is the response I always got when I used to post on these areas. ) Am I going to change your mind? No chance. I won’t even try. So let’s stop this conversation. Nothing good is going to come out of it

24. I know I will get a lot of dislikes on this comment, I am in no way defending Walder but I feel something must be said. My first question is If Walder did such things over 20 years, to so many people, how come no one came forward until now? Rav Eliyahu is a posek, a rav I don’t know what information Rav Eliyahu was privy to, but as a layman something doesn’t sit right with the way this story was handled. Imagine you’re walking to shul and you see a pashkavil with your name on it. It says you’re a crook and a thief and signed by a prominent rav. You walk into shul everyone is staring at you. Just then your phone rings you answer, Its the rav who signed the pashkivil and he wants to meet you. Would you go meet him? Yes, Yes there are sick abusers around, but there are also those that make up stories or embellish stories and even those that make up stories to blackmail people. I have a relative who was accused of hitting a student in his class. He was put on leave for a few days which itself was embarrassing. It turned out if a boy was playing around the rebbi banged on the boy’s desk, this boy went home and said the rebbi hits my desk, but the parents only heard the rebbi hits me. Even after this was clarified the damage was done. About a year ago a friend who is a principal told me how the camaras in the class saved a teacher. A 6-year-old boy told his father the teacher put him into a room by himself. Even worse when he “escaped” he told another teacher who ignored him. Everything the boy said was true, but thankfully the camaras were able to show the entire story, Once Haaretz published the accusations the rabonim should have taken the position of trust (the abused) but verify I think this part could have been done better.

25. @rats there are alot of good books written by priests maybe you and your friend can just cut out the name so your kids don’t realize

26. We know several rabbonim in Israel- rabbis who know the dayanim involved and who are not 100% certain that the story is true
    They feel many details don’t add up, besides for the fact that nothing was done according to Halacha
    For one thing- if so many victims came forward, why wasn’t the police called? Certainly that would have been prudent with such a dangerous molester. If he was invited to bet din and didn’t come out why didn’t they issue a Siruv?
    I’m not saying he is innocent. I’m saying there’s a lot of shady stuff going on we don’t know about and people who know more than we do are not so quick to condemn a man. There’s a lot of questions especially regarding these so called witnesses. Nobody but this bet din knows who they are
    They testified without the defendant present
    We might never know the truth
    We should shut up

27. A teachable moment would be that, in addition to always protecting anyone in potential danger, as the Torah commands, we also always have to follow the rest of the Torah, not emotional assessments that 22 people “can’t be lying” (theoretically, they certainly could) to therefore CH”V that the Torah exists and “cancel” someone before his day in Beis Din.

    There are two very separate matters to address in a terrible matter like this: the alleged victims and the accused.

    One matter is the alleged victims, who need to be listened to by parents, therapists, rabbanim and the like. They need to be cared for, supported and helped.

    A very different matter is the accused, and here is where the Torah has unfortunately been in grave danger of being trampled on, ch”V.

    Speaking badly about a Jew, destroying his reputation and preemptively depriving him of every possible source of parnassa, potentially leading up to him (wrongly, of course) taking his own life, are all decisions that takes someone with very, very broad halachic shoulders to make, if anyone today is even capable of making the halachic call to do all that.

    Lashon HaRa encompasses numerous issurim, for starters. It is not a small matter to throw out even a portion, never mind the entirety, of sefer Chofetz Chaim’s applicability to a particular case. There are numerous other issurim that are violated in “canceling” or totally destroying a Jew, as happened here.

    Had a recognized Beis Din held a standard court session – in which the judges had no prior bias and had not heard one side first – in which they followed the Torah’s requirements to hear both sides together, and then, had they issued a ruling that it was a mitzva to do all of the above, and perhaps even also writing a teshuva justifying the same, then that would be one thing. But that’s not at all what happened here.

    Let’s be sure to keep everyone safe. But let’s also hope that there was no “eevus haDin”, making “crooked” the Torah’s laws, here. Klal Yisrael is already in desperate need of a yeshua and doesn’t need any more problems ch”V.

28. Gut voch from Israel.

    “We know several rabbonim in Israel- rabbis who know the dayanim involved and who are not 100% certain that the story is true
    They feel many details don’t add up, besides for the fact that nothing was done according to Halacha
    For one thing- if so many victims came forward, why wasn’t the police called? Certainly that would have been prudent with such a dangerous molester. If he was invited to bet din and didn’t come out why didn’t they issue a Siruv?
    I’m not saying he is innocent. I’m saying there’s a lot of shady stuff going on we don’t know about and people who know more than we do are not so quick to condemn a man. There’s a lot of questions especially regarding these so called witnesses. Nobody but this bet din knows who they are
    They testified without the defendant present
    We might never know the truth
    We should shut up”

    THIS ^^^^^ And I say this as someone who has reported terrible abuse since 1984, when I was a young teacher (including incest in the frum community), so I certainly don’t shy away from the truth. The trouble here is, the sequence of events seems lacking in due process. Is this the way a Beis Din usually works… deciding on guilt – or innocence – before a full, transparent hearing is held? If so, I pray my family is never called to Beis Din here.

29. I want to thank the author of this letter. Not because I agree, but because it brought out the resulting comments.

    Too many news sites have comments bashing the Gedolim for their stand (or rather lack of one) on the matter. I suspect they were actually involved in the background, but yes or no it’s not my place to have a opinion in how the Gedolim work.

    This incorrect letter B”H brought out many people showing that they have emunas chachamim and that whatever Reb Gershon says goes!

    I’m sorry to those in chu”l who have an issue with this because their Gedolim say differently, however the way it works is that the Gedolim of Eretz Yisroel superseded those of chu”l. So while those in chu”l are of course entitled to their opinion (unlike the layman on the street who feels he must open his big mouth to share his irrelevent thoughts on the matter), they must bow in deference to Reb Gershon and even more to THE Gadol haDor Reb Chaim!

    You may notice I’m not discussing the actual case. This is because Reb Gershon made it clear that we may not.

    One more thing. The Rav of Tzefas is a real Rav who has been at the the public forfront of fighting the current government in trying to detry Judaism. He has the support of the Chief Rabbi Rav Lau, who refused to cave under pressure from the Minister of irReligious Affairs to fire the Rav for daring to take a stand for the truth against the practical goyim running things with a rag on their heads that they call kippot!

    With all that being said, he made a mistake here. Reb Gershon referred to him and his buddies knot by name, but very clearly) as responsible for Chaim Walder’s death. He is a human and in my personal opinion (which I will happily rescind if it proves to be different to Reb Gershon) I think he got in too deep and couldn’t back out. Yes he has blood on his hands, but he must be remembered for all the good he had done at the same time!

30. The pathetic and moronic people who are focused on keeping situations of this nature ‘quiet’ are oiver on LO SAAMOID AL DAM REY’ECHOH.

    Just THIS WEEK one of his victims COMMITTED SUICIDE due the umming and arring taking place across the community, that facilitates abusers and abuse like this. (Check the Israeli news – for some inexplicable reason this story has not been reported on YWN???)

    It is the DUTY of YWN and everyone to publicise the details of what happened – this should be the FIRST story.

    This is PIKUACH NEFESH, otherwise it is 100% guaranteed that this will happen again and again and again and again.

31. Yehuda2001 – so you decide which Daas Torah suits you and others “made a mistake”

    Why don’t the yeshivish oilam use Jastrow or Steinzalts Gemorah – as Rav Zimmerman said about CW, would you want these people educating your children?

    And to those with misguided Loshon Horah concerns, YW articles on Lev Tohar cult are permitted?

    And as to how it can go on for so long without people coming forward, look no further than the Jeffrey Epstein saga – most people go weak at the knees when seeing wealthy, powerful or famous individuals. The don’t, can’t or often refuse to see them for what they are – a mortal human being.

    If he was sure of his innocence, why not attend Beis Din to disprove the allegations.

32. Regarding Rabbi Edelstein, see https://vinnews.com/2021/12/31/official-response-to-walder-affair-by-rabbi-edelstein-shlita-these-matters-must-be-dealt-with-confidentially/.
    “An official response to the Chaim Walder affair has been published in the name of Rabbi Gershon Edelstein. VINnews published a response immediately after the suicide but since then we have learned from Rabbi Edelstein’s family that the response (i.e. that adulterers receive the World to Come but public shamers do not) was based on what Rabbi Edelstein told Chaim Walder himself before the suicide. The addition stating that the suicide was murder (because he was driven to it by those criticizing him) was not apparently said by Rabbi Edelstein himself but was said by some of his close disciples.”

33. yehuda2001 At what point does “Emunas Chachamim” become Avoda Zara?

34. What people are forgetting here is that this is NOT about you. This is about your innocent, beautiful children who are potentially being sexually harassed and abused, just like hundreds of other Jewish children have been already. To those that commented and said they don’t believe that the 22 victims who bravely came forward are telling the truth, I can’t image that you would tell your own child that you don’t believe them if they were Chas v’shalom abused. If someone speaks up, they can prevent others from being harmed as well.
    We see over and over again that people who are in positions of power and political good standing, take advantage of their position and preform horrible Aveiros. It is a shame that we are struggling to see that those people misrepresented our people, and chose to harm others rather than to heal others. This pains me deeply.
    Those who fail to believe the 22 victims and choose to not use this unfortunate story to educate our children are being outright destructive.

35. CHASH:
    thank you for taking and effort to write. You saved me a lot of time!
    Standing up for victims of abuse does not mean jumping to conclusions, and even when guilty there is a protocol that must be followed.
    I myself have been dealing with the aftermath of abuse for the last few years, and it is literally constant suffering – when verified by a reliable Beis Din, the abuser should be locked up for life, but that does not mean blasting him in the media, and certainly not before the honest Psak din.
    Amudim is a good organisation and they do a lot of amazing work, but the they must not go against Gedolei Yisroel, even indirectly. Very sad and disappointed.

36. 22 people did NOT go to beit din. The so-called beit din had *third parties* testify (allegedly) on behalf and in the name of the 22. But the supposed 22 never showed up to that “beit din” that, kneged halacha, accepted testimony outside the presence of the accused. For all anyone knows there could have only been 2 accusers with the rest fictitious; and it could all be complete lies.

37. What happened? I dont know. One thing is clear, all the well meaning yentas in the comments section of YWN and other social media sites contribute nothing positive to this tragic situation.

38. To all those that say that there was no police report, from what I heard there actually was a report being opened that week and that’s exactly when this murderer decided to murder his himself.

39. Alabama people aren’t questioning whether or not to believe 22 people claiming abuse, but whether or not there are actually 22 claimants.

40. “I guess you think you know better then rav Gershon edelstein hamalbin es pnei chaveiro birabim ein lo cheleck bioilam haba.”

    Human beings are not infallible.

41. what is molestation, what is harassment? a touch in the private places? a pinch? a nasty look? or a violent rape?

    we seem to gather all the possibilities in one word and assume the worst. There is no way for the average person to know the real truth, but we do find everyone has an opinion.
    But the reality is that without a proper court hearing both sides and sifting through all the evidence and testimonies, there is NO chance of coming up with the truth. and even some courts are not 100% either.

    but best is to do a few things:
    1. Observe the rules of ‘yichud’ – do not seclude yourself with a member of the opposite sex, it is smart and it IS halacha.
    2. report as soon as possible improper behaviour as soon as possible and not wait 20 years. This should be stressed in the home and in the school.
    3. avoid getting involved in taking sides in cases like this . As R. Edelstein says, it is lashon horah, and murder….

42. All the comments here in which the writers believe the issue of whether there is an issur of malbin pnai chaveiroh is dependent on whether the accusation is true or not fail to understand that the issur is even if it is true, and even if the subject did not yet do teshuva. We learn the issur of malbin pnai chaveiroh from hocheach tocheach as emisecha v’lo sesa aluv chet, that there is an issur to embarrass him. And the chiyuv of tochochoh is on a person who has not yet done teshuva and even if he still has the status of a roshoh. So the issur d’oiraysa of malbin pnai chavieroh is even if the accusations against a person are true and even if he is a roshoh. Rabienu Yona in sharrei teshuva says that we see from the gemora that the issur of malbin pnai chaveiro is yehareg v’al ya’avor, from the gemora that says mutav lo l’adam l’hatil atzmoh l’kivshon ha’eish v’al yevayesh es chaveroh ba’rabim, and he says this is because the issur of lo sesa alyuv chet is an abizrayhu d’retzicha because the victim has the blood drained from his face.

43. Rabbi Shraga Feivel Zimmerman
    Speaking Out Against Abuse

    TorahAnytime Links
    🎥 Video https://MyTAT.me/v173791
    🎤 Audio https://MyTAT.me/a173791

    ➡️

44. What happened to the Torah ways of dealing with such things that been totally totally forgotten????????
    Why was he in one room with so many girls what happened to the issur of Yichud
    That the Torah put forth that
    והייתם נקיים מה’ ומישראל
    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

45. The comments on this forum are appalling, since this a a Yeshiva site. Kudos to this letter writer.
    Hichos Loshon Hara DOES NOT APPLY here since Chaim Walder was a predator and there are 23 known victims and who knows how many did not come forward. And his inartistic suicide letter was first hand proof for every reader to know of what a murderer he was up until his last breath on earth.
    I don’t know what Rav Gershon Edelstein’s thoughts are, but he is wiser and smarter than me.
    Since we value our children and their future above all else, let’s protect them from people like Chaim Walder and call him out!

46. fgh: There is not even a single accuser against him. Other than anonymous claims by anonymous third parties. None first hand. All made only to the media or a kangaroo so-called beit din that operated kneged halacha.

    HaGaon Haav Gershon Edelstein shlita denounced the travesty that was done against Walder, leading to his going insane and taking his life. Rav Edelstein said that person has Walder’s blood on his hands.