As a follower of YWN I often read the comments posted by readers, which for me are representative of the chareidi community. Judging by many of the comments I boldly assume most of the readers who post their feelings are younger than I, a second generation survivor, that is to say a child of survivors. I also believe most are not living in Israel. This is based on my vibe, not factual data.
For me, prior to landing in Israel 29 years ago my life was in the Washington Heights area of NYC, the area which was a safe haven for the Yekkes, a community of survivors. When growing up both my wife and I used to think that everyone has a number on their hand for that was our reality. As we grew older and met people outside the community we realized this is not so.
We grew up in the shadow of Yasser Arafat, the arch terrorist who brought the world airplane highjackings, the 67’ war, 73 war, First Lebanon war and Islamic terror, which continued to escalate to reach its pinnacle on 9/11.
We vividly recall the tears that streamed down the faces of survivors when Israel was in a perilous situation, for they realize the significance of an accessible Jewish Homeland even while in galus. They were among the fortunate ones who got out, and they carry that hakoras hatov for being counted among the witness who live to tell of the atrocities.
I don’t wish to belabor the point but I would like to share my feelings with you, the readers of YWN around the world. I would classify myself somewhere between chardal (chareidi dati leumi) and chareidi. When I lived on a yishuv in Shomron for 15 years they called me chareidi, and when I was in Har Nof, I was chareidi light.
The point is we do not require labels nor should we be compelled to identify with one ‘camp’ or another. For me, if growing up in the USA and then moving to Eretz Yisrael have taught me anything, it is that those who wish to see Am Yisrael disappear do not discriminate and they blow up buses with any yid on board. Hitler, Arafat, Ahmadinejad and others are equally pleased to murder dati leumi Jews as chareidim and chilonim. My late father z”l taught me at a young age that the Jew haters do not discriminate.
You do not have to be a fan of the Zionist state of Israel to have a modicum of derech eretz, and even hakoras hatov, for the state with all its problems and shortcomings is host to the most Torah study that we have ever known. This is big and that Torah study is not limited to Mir or Ponevezh. The IDF is also a source of pride for the Jewish People, and while it has a very long way to go, its level of kashrus and Torah observance has increased significantly since I served many years ago.
If you do not wish to stand at attention for a memorial siren, fine – but have a bit of compassion for the yid at your side who identifies with this. For him, not standing still is tantamount to spitting on his son’s kever, a son who was blown up by terrorists or fell in the line of battle. We all do things that are not “Jewish” and we do not learn 24/7. We go out to eat, visit the Catskills during the summer, take a hop on an ATV or visit an amusement park during chol hamoed. These are “goyish” too yet no one shouts so grow up and have some respect. I dare say you would stand still on the street if the goyim demanded it, rightfully so, so why not for a fellow Jew? Baruch Hashem an avreich knows enough Torah by heart that he can recite a mishna or Tehillim during that time.
One just needs to visit the Har Herzl military cemetery today, Memorial Day, and then you can look up and thank HaKadosh Baruch Hu if you are among those who do not personally feel the pain, firsthand pain, one of the bereaved families of the over 22,000 soldiers who fell or the thousands of terror victims killed or maimed for life. Not everything that differs from our way has to be treif! This is about kovod, simply respecting another, and during the days between Pesach and Shavuos this is a most appropriate way to go.
I read the genuine concern on the website during the Second Lebanon War and Operation Cast Lead, and saw the chareidi community reciting Tehillim round-the-clock. Well guess what, these are the same soldiers you davened for then but unfortunately, not all of them made it, not all of them returned home, and some came home missing body parts.
My wife and I have some children who served/serving in the IDF and some who prefer the kollel chareidi route. We are fine with both. Last week, of the 13 eligible children and in-law children (eligible referring to their ages), number 10 proudly entered the IDF.
Some are combatants, some officers, some career officers and some not in the front lines; but they have one thing in common with the guys who are learning – they are all doing what they perceive as the most they can do for the Jewish People. I know the critics mean well but if you have to bash the state in an open forum, please at least be considerate enough to move to Eretz Yisrael and do it here, as a member of the country, and do not be brazen enough to continue sitting wherever you may be abroad and with righteous indignation labeling those you perceive as “Zionists” as the biggest problem facing the Jewish People.
Remember, it is easy to love one another after Zaka tends to the bodies from a Number 2 bus but what about when we are not at war!
Respectfully, Yechiel Spira (Israel)
NOTE: The views expressed here are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of YWN.
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24 Responses
Thank you for a very well expressed article. You put my thoughts while reading the open forum into words.
As an Jew, as an Israeli, and as an IDF parent – כל הכבוד
Very beautifully put. May Hashem bless you with much Nachat from all of your children.
Bool!
You got it exactly right!
Kol HaKavod!
Well said and a good message. Kol HaKavod. I read this morning, “Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said on Wednesday that without the IDF, the notion of a yeshiva as it is understood in Israel today could not exist.”
Well said!!!
Well said, Thank you Yechial.
Most charadi schools in Israel do tell their students to stand if they are in a public place.
As a charadi who lives in Israel and whose children will probably not serve in the army, I still feel a tremendous hakarot Hatov to the soilders and to the state of Israel without whom I would never be here. True I do not agree with a lot of things that go on in this country. I do want it to be a Torah state not anti Hakadosh Baruch hu, however I would not be here without them and Hashem!
When I was learning in Israel my Rebbeim told us that the best way to remember those who were killed is to learn in their z’chus. But if we were outside when the siren sounded we must stand.
True, but why when talking about the frum community is the site so quick to negate them, and generalize.
Yasher Koach for a beautifully expressed article!
Most real Charedim and real Yeshivish folk don’t read YWN let alone post in the Coffee Room 🙂
This entire article is very well written & true! When I came to the end of the article, I became aware of the author. Rabbi Spira (who humbly insists people not call him Rabbi) has worked very hard for many years to improve the current religious situation (kashrut) in Israel. He has chosen to improve things here instead of just bashing it or making it worse.
It never ceases to amaze me when Jewish people fight amongst themselves b/c each thinks they’re so different. Interestingly, this tends to be the case when we are surrounded by lots of other Jews, as we are here in Israel. Take those same people and dump them in the middle of nowhere – see what happens when that “mismatch” of dati-leumi, chareidi and/or chiloni meet eachother in the middle of nowhere… they quickly find their common ground and often become like best friends. How unfortunate is it that when we are together more, it ends driving us apart. Remember, as individuals we are relatively nothing compared to who we are as the collective Jewish People.
This is one of our missions in this world – to recognize the similarities and build relationships with eachother despite perceived differences. In this way we can begin to correct the sins of Rabbi Akiva’s students who did not respect eachother. Remember, these were all students of Rabbi Akiva! They certainly had lots in common but couldn’t see it. If you look at another Jew & can’t recognize him as one, then perhaps YOU need to be doing teshuva alongside of him. Help him! Bring him closer! But DON’T, C”V, drive him further away!
I unfortunately see comments on this site that declare someone or some group as not having the halachic status of being a Jew – these comments are never good and always drive a bigger wedge between the Jewish people. Please keep in mind that if you are truly that religious, then you have obviously worked on so many of your midot already – now please take the time to work on your bein adam le’chaveiro midot before opening your lips (or typing a comment). Please remember that HaRosh Yeshiva Moreh D’Asra Maran Posek HaDor HaGadol HaDor HaRav HaGaon v’HaKadosh Moshe Rabeinu, Shlita taught us many halachot – the ones that are bein adam le’chaveiro carry a great deal of weight too (as seen during sefirat haomer)!
Thank you Rabbi Spira for your article & toughts.
Yes. People forget that Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz Ztza”l told Talmidim to give up their seats on the bus for soldiers out of Hakoras Hatov…
Although I always agreed with everything you said, I too engage from time to time in Zionist bashing. I would love to think that all the bashers arn’t doing so out of hate narrow outlook and intolerance, but out of worry. With all the love of everyone, we remind ourself from time to time that the love of every Jew is rooted in our love for Hashem, and we don’t want Jews to drift further and further away…
But all too often I’m proven wrong. There’s real terrible Sinas Chinam out there.
I hope your clear message gets out there. Yishar Koach!
Finally YWN posts an OP-ED that is not so anti-israel!
Very nice article!!
Rabbi Spira,
We all respect and appreciate the work of the soliders—the issue here is a Halachik opinion of the Vilna Gaon that it is prohibited to follow a non-Jewish custom. Although the shalshan Aruch permits such customs that have logic to them, the Gaon’s opinion is that it is a prohibition from the Torah of B’chukosayhem.
The same way we do not place flowers on the keveram rather we use stones in deference of the Gaon’s opinion (although placing flowers has logic) even though you can argue that a non-religious Jew we think bad of us not using flowers, so too one is allowed to follow his Halachik convictions as long as he is not infringing on someone else’s rights.
This Halachik issue of the Gaon’s opinion is well documented in Rav Moshe’s responses and it is unfortunate that everything has to be made into a haskafa conflict and personal machlokes.
Rabbi Spira’s article is extremely well written and on point. Yasher Koach.
THANK YOU AND THANK YOU for expressing the feelings of many of those born between 1945 and 1980.
We grew up with Rabbanim, Gedolim, Manhigim that were much more community and national oriented. You, youngsters can not imagine New York in 1967 during the days prior to and during the 6 days war and its myriad miracles. My parents always reminded me what it was like listening to the voice at the UN on May 15, 1948 and the pure, unadultered happiness of klal yisroel particularly the survivors and refugees of the war. Amen vamen.
There are a large and growing kehilla of Charedei Light families….am yisroel chai.
There is a false perception in the world that the Jewish nationalists are the representatives of Jews and Jewish interests in the holy land and in the diaspora. This is clearly not so, for the proponents of a passing secular ideology cannot speak for an established People of the world’s most ancient faith. They have expounded in their congresses about creating a Utopia in the Middle East but instead have spawned the globe’s most insurmountable conflict! Rather than serving those who promise us nothing but perpetual war, death and disillusionment, let us instead serve G-d who commands us to choose life.
What does “Chareidi Light” mean.
Very, very beautifully written. Everyone needs to take your words to heart.
Chareidi “Lite” – like Bud “Lite” (it’s a spelling mistake). Basiclly not a “Maya Shorim hard line Chareidi”.
Very well written, but unfortunatly in the world we live in “everybody is a critic” so the bashing will continue.
I disagree. Any Jew in the world, including outside EY, has the right to criticize zionism. (Many [but not all] of the gedolim who did so, too, lived outside EY.)
Btw, is this the Spira that used to write and report news articles on this website?
Rabbi Spiras words are appreciated, and his point is a good one, insofar as respecting the other person even if you disagree with his ideology. In other words, if you live in Israel and you “protest” against their memorial day ceremonies, I agree with Rabbi Spira that you may well be hurting your fellow Jew standing next to you and this is wrong.
However, this does not in any way permit one to tolerate liHalacha this anti-Torah travesty of Zionism. So I believe the forums should be used to express honest opinions (and, speaking about others here, there seem to be some rather learned posts, too) about our holy Torah. Since Zionism is inherently incompatible with, liHavdil, the Torah, it makes sense to point that out as much as is necessary.
AS I said, I agree 100% with Rabbi Spira’s remarks that:
“If you do not wish to stand at attention for a memorial siren, fine – but have a bit of compassion for the yid at your side who identifies with this.”
But not at all with:
“The IDF is a source of great Jewish pride”
Why? HaKol Kol Yaakov. This is not our strength, and is unnatural. Further, war is hell, and Israel has never know a day of peace in its existence. Why should anyone be proud to be a part of that?
Everyone davens for all Israeli Jews because they are fellow Jews in potential danger, CH”V, Hashem Yishmor. (There is a famous story of the Satmar Rav, Zatza”L, not a Zionist, of course, who davened for the safety of some soldiers who were in danger.) But that doesn’t mean the IDF is a source of pride. If anything, it but one multi-faceted illustration about how wrong Zionism was and is.
and not either with:
“if you have to bash the state in an open forum, please at least be considerate enough to move to Eretz Yisrael and do it here, as a member of the country, and do not be brazen enough to continue sitting wherever you may be abroad and with righteous indignation labeling those you perceive as “Zionists” as the biggest problem facing the Jewish People.”
Aderaba. If you move to Israel, then you have to have hakaras haTov for the government who is tasked with protecting you so it would probably be proper to refrain from criticizing as much. Whereas outside Israel, you have no such obligation so you can “call it like it is”. And “brazenly” sitting abroad is part of this galus, may Hashem end it speedily in our days so we can all live in E”Y with the true gelah sheleimah, Amein.
As for the last part of that quote, it is our gedolim of yesteryear who warned that “Zionism” would be a disaster, and it certainly has been. It is furthermore quite evident that it is the biggest problem facing us as a people because it is in violation of the shalosh shevuos, which is clearly not a smart move, as R”L has been quite evident in the pages of newspapers world-wide.
The general politics is really all nothing as “Lev Melachim ViSarim biYad Hashem”. But what can be said of this massive violation of the (un)natural order in which Hashem placed us in following the churban bayis sheini?
Finally, it’s nice that there are some improvements on the observance front, even though chazir trief is still chazir treif any way you slice it.
May Hashem redeem us all BB”A.
Thank you very much #23 for the well written critique and for this rare and healthy balance of Emes and Sholom. May this “Hakatan” light of clarity serve to dispell the great darkness and confusion which surrounds us.