Rav Chaim Kanievsky Shlita, of Bnei Brak has called on Yeshivos to fire Arab employees, stemming from the murderous attack in Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva.
Apparently, rabbis from a local Bnei Brak Yeshiva had concerns after learning the Merkaz HaRav terrorist was a Jerusalem resident, and they asked Rav Kanievsky regarding and elderly Arab employee in their yeshiva, stating he has worked there for many years. The rabbis added they do not fear the elderly employee is tied to terrorist activities, but nevertheless feel compelled to seek Rav Kanievsky’s ruling on such a serious matter.
The rabbi expressed surprise upon hearing Arabs are employed in the Jewish schools, adding there are many Jews seeking employment and in need of Parnassah. When Rav Kanievsky was asked if his ruling should be publicized, he stated “certainly” and now, after his ruling is public knowledge, hundreds of Yeshivos around the country are expected to follow his decision.
Rav Kanievsky is a son of Rav Yisrael Kanievsky ZATZAL, (The Steipler) and the son-in-law of Rabbi Yosef Sholom Elyashiv Shlita. He is also a nephew of Rabbi Avraham Yeshayahu Karelitz ZATZAL (The Chazon Ish).
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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48 Responses
i dont think it will help. the arab will be upset, that he was fired, and will return and open fire. but if reb chaim said we must listen
The full report says that “Rabbi Kanievsky went even further, saying that Jews should refrain from employing any non-Jews, not just Muslim Arabs, and instead grant livelihood to Jews, unless there exists a huge disparity between the costs of the labor.” Unfortunately there is very often such a huge disparity that employing Jews is just not finacially possible. That is why so many Yeshivas and private individuals employ Arabs, Romanians and other non-Yidden. Next we will be hearing that the heads of the Mosdos are in America looking for more money as their wage bills have gone up.
reu ki manhigeinu haim gedolei hatorah
Not to doudt what the rav said. But I”m afraid that this will only make things worse.
rav kanievski has at least as much seichel as you do. if he said get rid of them he has checshbonos. he is not oblivious to what is going on. btw- dont they get upset when we retaliate . maybe we should refrail from fighting back because it upsets them
Arabs should NEVER be even given the chance to work for a Yid EVER!!!!
If Reb Chaim Kanievsky or any Gadol for that matter, says something. Thats it. No questions, no arguments. Nothing to be afraid of. The Rav knows what hes doing. When the Rav talks, its Hashem talking to us. Besides the way we are going to arouse Hashem’s mercy is by doing what the Almighty says, and that means listening to our Gedolim. Its a win win situation 🙂
da’as torah is da’as torah woe be unto those who dont listen!!!!
For safety purposes one should NEVER allow any stranger in his home who could turn out to be against you. If Arabs are causing trouble,don’t let ANY Arab in your home.The day may come when you’ll R”L regret that you ever did anything good for an Arab.
I fully agree with Monsey Guy!
sb – dont worry – leave the worries for our manhigim because they are the only ones that know how to find the correct solutions – maybe if we would’ve followed what they said in the past we wouldnt have gotten into such a terrible matzav to begin with.
well maybe they should also ask , if there is a need for a SHOMER @ the entrence of each door..& that wohld really solve alot of problems that were brought up…
Da’a torah has spoken. How can anyone have the audacity to even comment along the lines of “I don’t think it will help, but….”
Perhaps this is why our Galus keeps going and going….We must listen to, trust in, and blindly follow the Divrei Chachomim, especially the Gadol Hador!
Even if in our little minds we can’t grasp the correctness of his words, it is Dvar Hashem medaber Mitoch Grono shel Tzaddik!
When I lived in a chareidi community in E”Y, there was a very poor family with young children. They employed the young husband/father to pick up trash in the yishuv and keep the area clean. Unfortunately he was fired within 3 days, because the people objected that it was befitting a “Torahdik Jew” to have such demeaning work. Mind you, they didn’t offer to otherwise supplement his income, they just fired him because his work wasnt dignified. It is due to such attitudes that we have Arab workers, because most Jews won’t work for minimal wages or do work that they feel is beneath them, or their communities won’t allow it..
There are many details here that are not clear. Did Rav Chaim actually pasken to fire the old arab who has worked for many years in the yeshiva? This is difficult to believe as it would violate the basic tenet of Hakaras Hatov due to an employee. If this old fellow is not a terrorist and faithfully does his job, it would be an extreme act of achzarius to fire him simply because of his race or out of revenge for the attack on Mercaz Harav with which he had nothing to do. It would actually be a very Nazi like thing to start firing people because of their race or religion. I know, because that is what the Nazis did to my grandfather in 1937. Did Rav Chaim actually advise publicizing such a thing on the internet where things can be taken out of context and distorted? A more likely scenario is that Rav Chaim advised against hiring young arabs from neighborhoods that are known to be hostile to Jews such as East Jerusalem or potentially have ties to terrorist organizations. All of the mindless,brainless, commentors who can simply lift their arms and without any critical thinking and shout Yawoul Mine Fuhrer are really a disgrace to the Jewish people.
YOU NEVER EVER GO WRONG LISTENING TO DAAS TORAH!
Did we forget the STORY OF PURIM; didn’t the Yidden in Shoshan go to the party of the King in order to show they are friendly? Didn’t the Yidden think Mordechai was CRAZY for showing (openly) that he will not going to bow down to Homon? Of course they did, and what was the out come? he was right & they were wrong!
Homon, Pals don’t bring the terror, our moving away from Hashem does.
SOME PEOPLE UNFORTUNATELY DON’T GET IT!
boruchhashem – you said the same thing I did but much better. Boruch Hashem you made the point better.
THIS WEEKS HAFTARAH SAID MOASTO ES DVAR HASHEM & SHAUL HAMELECH THAUGHT KEYYAMTI ES DVAR HASHEM, WE SOMETIMES THINK WE R DOING THE RIGHT THING BUT GEVALT HOW MUCH MOASTO ES DVER HASHEM!! EVERY WORD OF REB CHAIM IS KODESH KODOSHIM WE WILL KNOW SOON EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANT, WE WILL SEE THE WAY REB SHMUEL DEALS WITH THE ARAB WORKERS IN HIS YESHIVA & WE WILL LEARN…
YOU NEVER EVER GO WRONG LISTENING TO DAAS TORAH!
SOME PEOPLE UNFORTUNATELY DON’T GET IT!
There is this terrible story of the “Lamed He” which happened in ’48.
A group of jewish soldiers met an old arab on a desert road. He begged them to give him some water, otherwise he would not survive. They revived him and let him go.
He afterwards snitched on them to some armed bandits. They ambushed the group and r”l killed 35 of them.
How is this for “hakoras hatov”?
The story of purim… Let’s not repeat history ח”ו by not listening to our גדולים.
Well, Daas Torah is Daas Torah. They should try to employ Jews. Someone who has no job at all will work for the money they are offering. And if not, there are many Romanian, Russian (non-Jewish), and other workers available. Rav Chaim knows better then all of us.
I think the Mir hasn’t used arabs as workers for many years. The story I heard was because there was a maaseh with an arab worker who put a bomb in a loaf of bread. Anyone know if this is true?
Was this arab who went in the merkez harav yeshiva worked over there?
#15 IM…..are you in dreamland? were you on mars the last 50 years??.. are we talking about just anybody…we are talking about a race that can’t be trusted ,that can smile on you and stab you the next second behind your back, what HAKORAS HATOV??..if the next min. they are going to slaughter us. What stupidity to compare to what the nazis did to your grandfather ..were the jews going around slaughtering germans ,bombing schools etc etc..!!! why dont you go back into your hole instead of coming out with such brainless comparisons..we are picking on him because of race or religion??!!…it doesnt even pay to waste time refuting your idiocy???!!!! yes this old arab that has been working many years in the yeshiva can be contacted by the sub-human animal barbarians and be inducted to the “cause” with promise of 72 you know what, and since you dont know who it is going to be …chamira skante ma issurah,we have to be choshed everyone..your talking about achzoriuous…”v’rachma reshoim achzoriy’ mishley…”kol s’he marachaim al achzori soif s’he zchzori al rachmoni”… and we are not talkig about slaughtering this “ol man” just to keep him away from these holy talmidim that learn torah
“Not to doudt what the rav said. But I”m afraid that this will only make things worse”
Two jews are at a firing line, before a Nazi gunner who is getting ready to shoot them. One says to another “my blindfold is too tight”. The other whispers angrily “Quiet, you’ll only make things worse”
“YOU NEVER EVER GO WRONG LISTENING TO DAAS TORAH!
SOME PEOPLE UNFORTUNATELY DON’T GET IT! ”
First of all, DON’T USE CAPS LOCK. Second, Daas Torah is not necessarily equal to yuor local rebbe, or even a gadol, or even a gadol ha’dor.
Although HaRav Kanievsky’s, Shlita, words need clarification, one thing is for sure. We need to take a lesson from Purim and realize that our Gedolim think much deeper into their statements (and actions) then we believe. Klal Yisroel, for not listening to Mordechai HaTzaddik, were almost wiped out. Let’s not make the mistake twice.
BTW – I don’t know how credible the press release is, but this is a clipping from Arutz Sheva. ““According to Jewish law, it is completely forbidden to hire Arabs, especially in yeshivas,” Rabbi Kanievsky said. “There is a concern of endangering lives.”
The rabbi continued, explaining, “After all, we are at war with them…and are there not Jews that can work and make a living?”
Asked later if his words should be publicized, Rabbi Kanievsky said: “Certainly,” according to the News First Class site.
Rabbi Kanievsky went even further, saying that Jews should refrain from employing any non-Jews, not just Muslim Arabs, and instead grant livelihood to Jews, unless there exists a huge disparity between the labor costs.
The rabbi’s family told Arutz-7 that the Yom Chadash report is 100% accurate and explained that “although there can be financial justification for hiring foreign workers, G-d forbid should we hire Arabs. We are at war with them.”
IM you are so off base, you are not even in the playing field. Many communtities have started already years ago to fire and dismiss all ARAB workers. This pasuk of REb Chaim, was written up in the Israeli papers, and also he said, “WE ARE AT WAR WITH THE ARABS, THEY ARE THE ENEMY”.
Awesome!
Wow jent1150 take a chill-pill…this aint good for your blood pressure. If you have a difference of opinion youre free to write it but no need to write it in a way that even heats me up thousands of miles away!!!
Regarding R Chaim’s Psak, even if logically one might find a few flaws in it, a godel’s word is beyond logic, he is the mouthpiece of Hashem and its our chiyuv to listen to him.
We’ve heard of “loyal” Arabs who turned on their employers of many years and murdered them. It is hard to know which Arabs can be trusted or which can’t. We are in a tough situation. The state of Israel can’t last. It has to be in the hands of the Arabs before Moshiach comes according to the Navi. How this will come about is frightening, but, firing all the Arabs won’t prevent the nevuah from happening.
Baruch Hashem the Gedolei Lita are back! It’s common sense…
#15 I.M. Reading your narrative I understand where you’re coming from. I trust the readers won’t judge you too harshly for your perceived naiveté. you see, in the clinical world you would be diagnosed as suffering from a case of Stockholm syndrome. Nothing that can’t be treated, with a few visits to my office. (Medicaid accepted)
I still don’t think it is wise to publish this psak on this website. Rav Kanievski’s instructions to to publicize his pask is to reach the relevant audience, not here.
Jent1150 I am not in dreamland. This old fellow worked for a long time in the yeshiva and is obviously not a security threat. To fire a person like that without cause is Achzarios and quite frankly Rishus and the fact that other arabs are evil is not a justification. You would not want to be judged as a Jew based on evil actions perpetrated by Jews who are bad and you should not be advocating collective punishment for gentiles either. Your usage of the term Sub-Human to describe all arabs is particularly repugnant. Sub Human or Untermentchen is the term used by the Nazis to describe the Jews. It was this terminology which allowed the Nazis to dehumanize the Jew and make it easy to exterminate the Jews because after all they are not human they are sub human or vermin. I am sure you are not advocating extermination of the 3 million plus arabs living in Eretz Yisroel. First of all this is not what Daas Torah is calling for. Secondly that would be Retzicha, as arabs are not Amalek but rather are Bnai Yishmael. Thirdly,according to many, albeit not all Gedolim, the reason why we have a problem with the Bnei Yishmael is because we have violated the 3 shvuos by establishing a Jewish State by force before Mashiach has arrived. Fourthly, even Meir Kahane did not advocate extermination of the arabs. He called for transfer, a euphemism for deportation and he allowed in his ideology for arabs that would be accepting of the Jewish state to remain as citizens or Geiray Toshav in the Jewish state. I stand by what I said and I think Bnai Torah and Yeshivos have a responsibility to act Bdarchei Noam to all especially an old arab who has been employed for a long time in a yeshiva. Who knows what Zechusim this old arab has in helping the yeshiva in his capacity as a long term employee.
i say even if you have to pay a lot more that is the highest tzedoko
Nothing new here. Toiv Shebegoim … beshas Milchama.
a terrible thing happened to klal yisrael with the killing of eight nesichim kedoshim v’tohorim in the yesihvah merkaz hatorah. let the posek hador says we are to eliminate all arab workers from yesivas,we have yo listen to him. its a matter of pikuach nefesh.he is das torah and no godol will oppose him.
the arabs will suffer their own consequences.if this muderer did not know the yshiva this would never happen. we have no choice. the godol says they go out, they must go out!
I can’t believe that yeshivos in E”Y were hiring those behaimos to begin with. So often it takes divrei Rabbonim to tell us the obvious!
Reb Chaim Shlit”a has now proven himself to be the Godol Hador “V’ailov Thismeuen”
I find it amazing, shocking and hypocritical that so many commenters here are so “pro-Daas Torah”, yet when it came to the post about the concert ban I was from the only ones defending the Rabbonim.
The overwhelming majority of comments were disparaging the Rabbonim, using all sorts of convoluted arguments, instead of simply saying “they know better”.
Now everyone is pro-Daas Torah.
Rabbosei, Daas Torah is Daas Torah across the board!!
Not only when you agree to it!!
Enough Chutzpah! Enough hypocrisy!
thank you frumyid1
well said!!
to #38 regarding #27..first when you qoute “dass torah” is that your own “dass torah”..you keep on comparing what real dass torah paskened to nazis see#15,#38..from your hashkofos you dont even sound like ben torah rather more like irans fuhere abajjjj what ever his name ym’s (hope ypu dont mind i use yemach shemo on this rasha) you seem to be over protective on yismaels children(see rashi hakodos breishis 21 posik 17).also there is al pi torah such a thing as collective punishment see kedoshim and gemmorah shevuous and the reason mentione there can aptly be applied here, this is another givaway on your part..you keep on plupkening on pointers we didnt even mention..extermination of arabs,riasous ,achzorious,( nobody advocated to catch arab and tear him limb to limb and hang from lamp post..and i don’t have to tell which “race” do these things all over the globe not only to jews)you say “obviously not a threat..” maybe if you’ll read again or mayby 5 times #27 you’ll understand why its not so obvious, also seems to me you sound like the leftist israeilies who side wih our enemies on all occassions..also those who send suicide bombers that destroy live and implant nuts and bolts into human brains that they are praglyphig for life etc. etc. atrocity after atrocity…see what they are doing all over the globe. they dont need dehumanization by us they already de-humanizesd themselves so don’t go comparing again to nazis. anyway your whole pshetel is not nogay..who advocated exterming arab in this subject (not hiring your enemies) you say”you would not want to be judged as a jew based on evil actions perpetrated by jews that are bad”.. now if those bad jews act like that because their religion teaches those acts then one would definately not blame if anyone one would be suspicous of jews so again your showing you are living in a hole. What these sub-human barbarians are doing all over the globe is what is taught in the koran and what is going on in yisrael is just part of that belief..now where does the shita of the holy “Divrei Yoel” come into discussion here to this subject of hiring or not hiring our enemies to protect ourselves here and now?lets make chazoreh …aczorious is like killing one even your enemy and tearing him limb to limb and hanging it on lamp post ( remember fallujja also the two isralie soldiers who by mistake made a wrong turn and were caught by ,yes, those sb-human barbarians and tore them apart( ..dont forget jews didnt do this in nazi germanry{have to keep reminding you since you keep comparing (sic))…rihsous is not when godal hador ,poal yeshious paskens not to hire our enemies to protect ourselves even old “innocent” arabs who can turn into sub-human bomb {re-read #27)and you know what… again you say”this is not what dass torah is calling for” is this your own dass torah your are referring to?..i also have chashad you are one of yismael’s planted so he can help subverge, by them every tiny winy bit helps to their long term goal..all your you comparisions to nazi germany THIS IS REPUNGENT..you use those fancy terms (which also agivawty on you hashkofos) on the wrong things
Thegreatfixer –
Your welcome. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this way.
May Hashem help us all.
If there is going to be an economic war against the arabs, how do we justify buying from the Arabs during Shmittah?
An economic boycott of firing arab employees is a good a deterrent to terrorism as anything the gov’t has come up with yet.
I.M. u really don’t get it do you? Weare talking about protecting ourselves(ishmartem m’od lnafshoseichem).PLUS,even with your leftist Hillary/barak hussein obama bin ladin leanings,u should be ashamed(ignored)to question Maran Rav Chaim SHLITA
THIS WAS HAGOEN RAV KOOKS DAAS TORAH ALSO …RIGHT BEFORE THE CHURBAN IN CHEVRON YESHIVA ….MAYBE WE SHOULD OF LISTEND TO OTHER RABONIM WITH A DIFFERENT OLD FASHION DAAS TORAH ..