Zushy

Shimon Nodel

still have not understood your pint

Take London, for instance, or the coastal plain in the Gush Dan area

These places are near the sea.

Environmentalists insist that in FORTY years present day London will be under water.

Were the sea to have been the height it is today it should have flooded the Roman city of Londonium

Ditto for the ruins of Acco, Ceaseria and Yaffo

And the Netherlands needed dykes to protect from rising sea levels 500 years ago, but before that they were good to go.

כל הנ”ל מורה שפני הים עלה הרבה במשך השנים, אלא שברוב מקומות פני היבשה גם עלה – כמובן על פי ההרים וגבעות שנבראו מששת ימי בראישת,

le’maaseh ocean levels are rising

Whether from melting ice floes or some new rain vais ich nisht

BTW I am serious, but i know nothing at all about any of the sugyas involved.

Zaphod

Neither are next to the mir, both are a five minute walk. They definitely should have taken the mir into account – it’s the biggest place in ….

The light rail might be a solution HOWEVER they admit themselves that they planned it when the city population was FIVE million, and they do not expect it to be ready before the city hits TEN million.
Leaving the protests out, the entire Bar ilan / yinrmiyahu is steadilt ebing renovated with high rise buildings, as is the parrallel Rechov Petach Tikva, and the population in these places is tripling – and these people are primarily car owners.

Taking into account transpratation needs of a major part of the population should be a basic requirement for any governemtn.

SHIMON NODEL
really sorry if I wrote anything hurtful, please be moichel.

Chareidim currently consist of 12% of voters, there are widely considered to be three more seats of approx 30- 40,000 votes. [Eitz, Chutnikim, and Yerushalmi] although this cannot be proven. Additioanlly over 25 % of underage citizens are enrolled in chareidi education. It’s still 17 or 18% rather than the twenty I quoted.
My own opinion, and opening post was based on a simple premise that helping the transporattion system will benefit everyone.

Shimon Nodel @ YWN coffeeroom

I am not under the illusion that only chareidim exist

I am under the extremely true fact that many many people Charedim and otherwise would benefit massively from easier access on the main roads and interstate highways and everyone would gain tremendously if Teveria, Beit She’an and Ashdod would be far more accessible – all three are major cities.

Additionally, like it or not, 20 or 25 % of the country are chareidim, and 50% of immigrants and 70 % of tourists. They say a rising tide lifts all boats, surely basic infrastructure to benefit a massive part of the population and tourists will benefit anyone.

In fact, with respect, you seem to be under an illusion in assuming – as the previous government did- that ignoring Chareidi needs will help the rest of the population. In fact in is remarkably non sensical to imagine that denying chareidim basic infrastructure helps anyone at all.

The biggest illusion is imagining that Charedim are treated as equal citizens. There is no other settlement the size of Kiryat Sefer which can only be accessed by a one lane road.

Let’s not forget with all of Lapid’s noise about non working chareidim, allowing more access to housing jobs and education – and allowing more to reach and benefit from home based businesses and services will undoubtedly help everyone.

One additional idea that I forgot to mention:
On the red line of the light rail a stop outside Zevill – Mir would benefit everyone. Although many people exist besides for charedim, the fact that five thousand plus learn nad work around the mir surely requires some basic consideration.

Avira

You are entitled to disagree with me

You are also entitled to suggest that i have misunderstood Ma’aneh Chacham

However, i politely suggest that you read it first and then comment.

Sorry

I live here in E”Y and don’t know much about cars. Private cars don’t really exist

Whichever car he had, which i assume was nice, has been transferred to R’ Moshe Sternbuch.

I assume neither R’ Chayim nor R’ moshe knew the make of the car.

“This has got to be the most disturbing posts you have ever written. You have no business teaching.”

Sorry s’yag I dont teach …. I definitely wouldn’t confiscate shoes …. I have way too much trauma

Yes, the kid asked mehcila, and he was old enough to understand.

Kuvult I hear your point

However

1) You cannot compare this ti regular rescue efforts. The Zionists were literally סןף מעשה במחשבה תחילה to destroy these people’s religion

2) I am talking this person’s heroism per se.

My thought was that today the papers shouldn’t be respecting someone who played a massive part in such a thing.

The point of the zaide zatzal was that the SUV is not maileh or moirid

It’s the person

If on eis not machshiv the person when he is by himself

then don’t be machshiv the SUV either

If the gavra is really worth while thne it is a different stroy

R’ Chayim’s SUV was forwarded to R’ Moshe Shternbuch

y1836 Thanks very much.

I thought of them, and of R’ Aryeh Levin

Avira

I am seriously not suitable to discuss people – on both sides of the fence – who are light years greater than me. Obviously if something was said that it clearly neged the toira then it is wrong. The point I was making was that Rav Kook was respected tremendously during his lifetime, and at least in terms of encouraging mitzvos hatluyos ba’aretz played a massive role that it felt until today.

I genuinely don’t know about Rav Hutner. I’m from the UK and have merited to live for many years in e”y bs”d. My quotes are based on things I heard from elderly people in Yerushalayim including the Auerbach family

Concerning Maran R’ Shlomo Zalman, a grandchild told me:

a) he was mechabed Rav Kook with sandaka’us for his first son – during the lifetime of his father and shver, both of whom were gedolim in their own rights. [When the eitz party started, the joke was that both HaGaon R’ Shmuel and HaGaon R’ Dov Tzvi Karelenstein, [ben HaGaon R’ Yerucham Fishel] had the same sandak, but as you write, I digress.]

b) he stayed in his shiur a second year, although his father R’ Chayim Leib was reluctant about the idea.

c) he had a picture on his wall, I think the only not family picture.

d) he was aware of the reluctance of those that surrounded him with Rav kook – in fact the sefer me’oirei Eish was not republished, since he insisted on Rav kook’s hascama being printed, while the family felt very strongly that it shouldn’t be printed.

e) by R’ shlomo’s Zalman’s petira and shiva some wanted to take the picture down, but in the end they left it in place.

Concerning מרן הגרי”ש אלישיב

a) the comment was readily repeated during the “ליבה” story. I assume if you check any Israeli news website from that period you will find it. it was about fifteen years ago. The gadol in question was Maran R’ Aharon Leib.

b) Although R’ Elyashiv learnt by himself he considered R’ Hirsh Pesach – his wife’s uncle – a primary force and influence on his life, and i understood [again from one the Auerbach’s] that this included RESPECT [not acceptance] for HaRav Kook.

HaGaon Rav Elchanan was an exception in his generation – he was literally the only visiting rosh yehsiva not to speak in RIETS. His views, and those of R’ Aharon Kotler are very very well known, and were expressed clearly at the k’nessia gedola, however they are not the majority. My only point was that people have misconstrued the mainstream view and even people who do not necessarily consider themselves adherents of R’ Elchanan’s extensive views seem to think that Rav Kook is a pariah.

Older people have mentioned about Rav Hutner with Rav Kook, and a much younger protege R’ Sholom Schwadron. Again, an older person told me that today the world thinks of Pachad Yitzchok, and the sefer machshava, they perhaps heard of the tisch and the spodik, but they have forgotten the colorful character, the “cheftza” and the charifus that made Rav Hutner stand out when the Chevron yeshiva came to Yerushalaim. [it may have changed, I am not debating that possibilty]

Ziknei Yerushalayim also told me that the Brisker rov was reluctant to talk about Rav Kook or Rav Herzog. He discouraged people from directing big questions to them and was disappointed when someone suggested that he be machriya the question about the dateline. All in all The Brisker Rav had a pachad of establishing the Rabbanut as the senior beis din, with his wisdom and foresight he realized that it would not necessarily always be led by talmdei chachomim.

R’ Elyakim Schlesinger is rosh yeshivas Haromo in London, not lucerne. Rav koppelman zatza”l was Rosh yeshiva in Lucern and was a talmid of R’ shimon shkop and was מעמיד תלמיידם לאלפים

Rav Schlesinger’s yeshiva is very very small. primarily family and a few followers. He is a talmid of the Brisker Rov and the Gramad, but in beis brisk his version of events is not considered completely accurate. He is known as a tremendous tremendous kana’i, and is a nephew of the legendary R; Amram Blau – son in law of his brother R’ Moshe who was poisoned by the Zionists.

There is a brilliant book that is written by someone more mainstream, In their shadow By Rabbi Lorinz, he received beautiful haskamos from many gedolim and really really had an insider’s view.
He clearly lays out the anti Zionist stance, and the feeling of despair Toira Jewry felt, but steers clear of criticizing Rav Kook or Herzog.

I have lived in ge’ula and spent hours in conversation with people who gave me the impression as being close to the main players, and this is my impression.

Finally R’ Chayim Brim related the following.
R’ Chayim Greinaman was a son in law in yerushalayim and for a short time lived in the kerem neighborhood, where his first child was born. He was mechabed the hailige Chazon Ish with sandaka’us, It was one the only occasions that the Chazon Ish came to yerushalyim.
The Cישzon Ish came to visit the Brisker Rov – it seems this was of the very few occasions that they met. they discussed things for a while.

After they left, the Chazon Ish commented the brisker rov has good eyesight, he can see ramifications thirty years ahead.
The Brisker rov said the Chazon Ish has koichois, I wouldn’t consider uprooting the trees he sets out to uproot.

[The Gramad – then a bochur of 30+ – was present and remained very quiet. The Chazon Ish later commented די בריסקר רב האט א זון וואס איז א מלאך, נישט קיין מענטש.]

והמבין יבין

This fellow told me that he was a child no one, no one debated Rav Kook’s gadlus,

Everyone knew that before one shemiita R’ Yosef Chayim Sonnenfeld, Rav A Y Kook and Rav Moshe Kliers- then recognized as the three senior gedolim in e”y traveled extensively to be mechazek kiyum shemiita. Their journey had an effect for years.

R’ Shlomo Zalman published me’oirei ha’eish at an extremely young age with two haskamos, R’ Chayim Ozer and Rav Kook, and refused to allow it republished without Rav Kook’s Haskama. He also had a picture on his wall of his rebbi muvhak, Rav Kook.

The Tzitz Eliezer also published with two haskamos, The hailige Marcheshes, and HaRav Kook.

Rav Yitzchok hutner zatzakal spent time in yerushalyim as a slobodka / chevron talmid, and viewed himself privileged to have to spend time with Rav Kook, and discussed with him sugyas in Nazir. [till today Rav hutner’s he’arois written on Nazir and Rabbeinu Hillel’s pirush on toras Kohanim are used by those learning those sugyas, and were wirtten during this tekufa.

On one occasion some mehsuga’im went around yerushalayim writing graffiti that a certain odom godol = Kook. Greatly disappointed the askanim came to the z’kan hador, the demi-super centenarian R’ Elyashiv and vented to him about this graffiti.
R’ Elyashiv’s response “איך האב געווווסט אז ער איז גאר גאר גרויס, אבער איך האב נישט געכאפט עד כדי כך” – Ich hob gevust az er is gor gor grois, ober ich hob nisht gevust ad k’dai Kach. And R’ Elyashiv was not known for exaggerating.

The same person told me that as long as Rav Kook and Rav Herzog were Rav HaRoshi the Brisker Rov respected them as talmidei chachomim. [Not thier hashkaphos, not did he encourage big shailos to be brought to them, however he recognized their scholarship.] Only after Rav Herzog’s petira with the installment of —– did this change. And the Brisker Rav was not known as a proponent of Zionism.

Today’s generation believe Rav Kook was some sort of unrespected zionistic messianistic pariah, however, in truth his gadlus was recognized during his lifetime and many mainstream gedolim considered themselves privileged to have been his talmidim.

Guys,

dis no fair

no fair at all

me started dis thread

and everyone ignorin’ me and me posts and me subjects

“Zushy, Avira D’Ara, EJM and the other posters above are all expressing an opinion of one Daas Yochid, a Hungarian Rav who went against the entire rabbinic establishment, and spent decades attacking the Gadol Hador Rav Moshe Feinstein. His closest students became the Neturei Karta who kiss and hug with Arafat and are best friends with Hezbollah and Iran.”

Man alive. אם אין דעת הבחנה מנין

There are too many things happening on this thread …. however …..

1) Gedolim are way way way above our hasaga. This applies to gedolim today, and kal vechomer to those of previous generations.

2) יישוב ארץ ישראל is potentially a מצות עשה דאורייתא I assume I am not only one on this thread who is zoche to fulfill it. In this matter alone the Satmar rov zatvkal was indeed a daas yochid.

3) there are numerous adherents of the basic ideology of אסור להתחבר לרשע אפילו לדבר מצוה who keep away from voting. I have heard estimates that they could potentially bring two more seats for UTJ. They still do not חלילה hug רוצחים etc, aderaba they are known for their extensive אהבת ישראל

4) those that hug רוצחים were severely criticized by the leaders of the עדה החרדית – the successors of one of the Satmar Rav’s multifaceted roles.

5) Many Gedolim – for example’s sake only מרן הגרמ”ד הלוי – expressed regular opposition to the government, nonetheless they encouraged יישוב הארץ and refused to leave ארץ ישראל

6) The settlements of beitar and Kiryat sefer were built near the major population centers, as such Maran HaRav Shach zatzvkal was unopposed, in fact they viewed them as a solution to the housing crisis.

7) The example I raised was Immanuel, in that case Maran Harav Shach was indeed opposed.

8) As far as i understand Maran Sar Hatoira and his father before him, accepted Rav Shach position on these matters, as such it does not make sense to name a settlement after him.

9) The point I was stressing was opposition to settlements. I do not understand how the position of the Ponevezher Rav [or, yet unmentioned, Maran HaGrach Shmulevitz] concerning the state is necessarily in disagreement. The main pro and anti zionism debate was not the purpose or the subject of my thread.

10) there are numerous members of the dati le’umi community who are medakdek in toira and mitzvos, and unfortunately there are many balck hatters who are not. As yidden we respect and embrace everyone, and we also do not dream of understanding anyone else’s nisyoinois. [Nonetheless there is a undeniable “mainstream”, additionally there remains a small proportion of those from a dati-le’umi background who are “mitchared” and change their levush. Everyone understands that levush is supposed to represent something.]

שבוע טוב ובברכה ומרבה לכל המשתתפים

נא לעיין טוב במה שכתבתי, אשמח מאד מאד לשמוח הערות והארות

זושי