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Wow. .. Had to get in just once to respond to this hazarei….
Those interested in Eim Habonim Semeicha can read it in the original, or in the excellent English translation by Rabbi Moshe Lichtman,and not to rely on snippets by Joseph, and you will see halachic proofs as well as tons of proofs supporting his position..
” …. It’s downright absurd, and for anyone who knows anything about the Minchas Elozar.. .”….:Rav Teichtal was in fact his talmid and knew everything about him, you didn’t.
Calling this great tzaddik dishonest and arrogant is a reflection on yourself. The fact is that many more tzaddikim whether they were his contemporaries or not, agreed with him. Lifting a coupla paragraphs and expecting long- winded responses is futile and this thread will go on endlessly…You’re on the side of rabbonim to whose positions you adhere, fine.
Obviously, you don’t consider the other side as authoritative… I do, many do. So when you and those in agreement speak of gedolim, you mean YOUR gedolim… In the meantime, EY is a miracle a moment, an ingathering as never before, extraordinary happenings that weren’t even imagined 80 years ago.. We prefer our side, Hashem is with them and the Redemption is nearer by the day. Rav Teichtal, Hy”d was correct…
I’ll also beg you not to bring the Satmar rebbe or his shita here, because there ‘s much I can write about it, and I’m confident that the Mods will not allow it through, so go easy, buddy…. Moshiach did not come for Minchas Elazar…. he has a good chance to come for us..And would Joseph tell us about the Minchas Elazar not allowing Belz into Munkatch, and the ensuing bitterness which eventually brought a grudging agreement ???
Make your product or idea you like , unique, better or different somehow. Online selling seems easy but it’s not. It’s just a different way to do business… But if that’s what you want to do, keep plugging and don’t be discouraged right away if you believe in your product.
Les Miserables…. Suave Romney, Hillary, Kasich, McCain. Sore losers,all. Still walking in the woods, sipping diet- Stolichnaya ever since Trump won ( well, maybe not Mac)… Corker too, wasn’t selected as Secty of State… Beach bum, Bridge traffic cop Christie too, wasn’t Att.Gen… So every once in a while, he throws mud too.. I once thought Romney was a mentch.
Lemme just end with this:
Harav Bentziyon Shurin, who was only 1 of 2 orthodox writers at the once NY Yiddish daily the Forvertz , interviewed Ben Gurion in the early 60s. He mentioned the antipathy many in the frum world velt against him and the State.
BG : No problem. Let them all make Aliyah & take over the whole thing, and run it their way. BG , btw, respected Neturei
Karta exactly because at least they lived in EY.So let’s cut to the quick.
1…A Jewish State isn’t allowed at all.
2…. Even if yes, IDF isn’t kosher..
3…. Even if kosher, Torah learning protects and no need to join anyway…. Or maybe we can talk about it.
4…. Questionable dinah d’malchusa, and we need to me’ayin if even obeying traffic laws, piling sewage on Rechov Yaffo paying taxes, etc..
5…..Frum MKs, mayors, etc.. are doing the bidding of the Zionists..
6… It’s not safe there… Come to Uncle Sam’s villla.
So what’s the point of discussion altogether?
Folks, it doesn’t matter… EY is a growing miracle, largest Torah center in the world… Ki Mitziyon Teitzei Torah, from nowhwre else, even in our era…. Especially in our era..
Gra,Baal Shem, Chofetz Chaim all wanted to make Aliya…
“Is it not possible to see the hand of Divine Providence in all this?”.. whoever has opportunity but does not move to EY, will have to answer before G-D… Harav Sonnenfeld, already not a Zionist.
That’s it folks… Let’r rip…
Now let me munch on my cheese danish…Re:Spiritual minefield
Depends for whom.. I have family in IDF, sons of friends, sons of aquaintances. It’s time to stop throwing blanket statement around like that which contain a good potion of sheker.Re: when everyone keeps the Torah..
If you’re off today, spend a couple of hours with a Nach and learn a bit about what went on there.
Different eras: Torah doesn’t object to an army in any era.
Re: spears vs. jet fighters… lol, I needed that.. Didn’t have my 2nd cup of coffee yet.… To clarify… Though Chazal say that Yoav needed Dovid’s Torah, they immediately say that Dovid needed Yoav’s army in the very same memreh. IOW… they’re equal in the eyes of Hashem. I never heard anyone argue that there should be no learning at all. People with good & fair intentions should be able to sit down together and figure it out, esoecially when millions of wolves surround our little Holy land with evil intentions.It’s called , sharing the burden.
Re: I lost you
I was pointing out that an army is not against the Torah at all. That when even during a time when we had Torah, learning ,and hashroat Shechina, General Yoav went to battle even with approval from Urim V’tummim. Debate about level of frumkeit in IDF is a separate issue…… That learning in yeshiva as a stand-alone excuse for exemption because it benefits & protects , has no precedent in our history from Yehoshua on down..Re: Torah benefitting tzibbur……Chazal….
Who’s arguing about its benefits??
Quick Q: Why did Dovid Hamelech, who learned all night b’ruach hakodesh, who’s rebbe was the great Mebiboshes and was surrounded by great Torah gedolim, who had a Sanhedrin, Mishkan, Urim V’tummim, neede Yoav, also a gadol b’ Torah and thousands of chayalim ??? Why didn’t most then just pick up garbage and volunteer at the local fi
re dept.? Did Chazal disagree?? If yes, please show mareh mekomos.Manitou,
Agreed…. Gotta run… Shabbat ShalomI meant @ 3:26
manitou,….@ 3:03,
It doesn’t matter. Their premise is that before Moshiach, no Jewish government should never exist even if its run by all lav-vov tzaddikim. The “secular ” issue that opponents of the medinah talk about , is not, on a deeper level, their main beef. They don’t believe in Jewish sovereignty ,period… No Rambam or anybody else will convince them..20, 60, dina d’malchusah, etc… are just bones to pick..
The more extreme, wish for its destruction altogether, rachmana litzlon… Hashem Yeracheim and forgive their speech..“……It’s not for nothing that chassidim pronounce it “hagoon ” …….
Not editorializing, since I have no clue what this paper is all about, but just based on dialects/ pronunciations ,
which I’m very familiar with, I’ll say 2-2tango isn’t taking any prisoners tonight.Manitou,
I’m very, very familiar with Satmar tactics going back decades, so you don’t have to tell me. I didn’t read about it, I was around when they occurred… I’m not 35 years old anymore…. They’re trying to reinvent and revise some of the events, but I’ll challenge them anytime, anyplace.Re: Major Posek
1….”Major’ is a subjective word… Rabbanim on the side which you don’t respect, hold different.
2…. Even some of your “major” ravs held that non-learners should join the army.. I already mentioned a few…. Many times they’re threatened into silence or totally retract ( See Rav Shteiman in my previous post ).
3…. Don’t believe every statement coming out of a rav/rebbe’s court.. We live in an age of forgery, fraud and many kol korahs are Mezuyef thru & thru. The forged signatures, retractions, denials are rampant in EY and in the USA… You can’t believe a word a rav says until it’s been verified a million times. Even going back to the Chazon Ish… The version of any given incident/conversation involving him exhausts a library..
4…. I’m questions the motives of some of those who are against it.. May I ?? This is a way to keep their business at home… They’re afraid of losing control, talmidim, business, $$$ and kavod.. Not only is the IDF a threat ( which may make some sense) , but against the bocharam going to work, or even to trade schools and earn a decent living. They want to own them… IOW- not Leshem Shomayim.
5…. Forcing only chilonim to risk their blood and lives, is a crime. Who says so ?? Every rational Jew with feelings..For this we don’t need a posek.“….. Many MO youth are leaving yiddishkeit in droves…”
Hello..!!??
Are you not aware of this exact problem even in your own backyard?Haimy,
Where’s his signature ? Is this letter legit,or no one is allowed to ask on this forum?… and why are there conflicting reports over the years about his stance vis-a-vis Nachal Chareidi? . And if he was opposed, then why the demonstrations against him in NY, 12 years ago by the Satmar picketing him & cursing him? . And why after his petirah, the celebrations by extremists with lechaims, posters, etc. villifying him?….And didn’t Rav Ovadia Yosef also once say that bocharim should join the IDF if they’re not learning… Although this bit of info mysteriously disappeared on Inet. And unless I ‘m mistaken, same for Rav Eliyashev..
Anyway, let’em totalky disband the IDF starting tomorrow, no army at all, and call it a day.. L’chaim.Look in “Shirim Shel Shabbos” a sefer/siddur of Shabbos zmiros available in Judaica stores with wonderful mefarshim on the page.
Under the Friday night Kiddush, the Iyun Tfilah brings down a Seder Eliyahu Rabbah which says :Heaven and earth are my witnesses… whether Jew , non-Jew, slave or maid,
Each according to the deed that he/she does, the Ruach Hakodesh rests upon him/her.
For any good deed that a person does by free will, a certain level of RH rests upon him,
and prepares him to do a second good deed.
See Tractate Brachot on how a certain level of Divine Spirit rets upon parents when giving their
child a name.. Orach Chayim in Parshat Vayeitzei, I believe, writes that this is true even of non- Jews.…. Just to be clear, I was referring to Ruach Hakodesh,, not Nevuah, which unfortunately doesn’t exist today…. Hopefully, tomorrow.
@Haimy,
“…..limud Hatorah, which is our main zechus….”Nobody else learns Torah except for yeshiva bocharim?
You’re buying into the commandeered idea that only they have zechusim, and only their Torah protects EY.
What about those who work, find time to learn pre or post a hard day’s work? There’s also chessed, tzedakah done by ordinary Yidden , so many even , lifnei mishurat hadin… others who say Tehillim and daven whenever they can.. Don’t their zechusim count? Maybe it’s their zechusim who protect? Who can say, no?
We’re not capable of measuring zechusim. It’s wonderful that young bocharim learn, but it’s not meant for the majority of the masses. Our greatest rabbonim, tanaim, amaoraim worked for a living. This style of everybody continuing in kollel is a relatively new phenomenon, mostly people worked and the Jewish people survived. If it’s a serious bochar and if he can be supported by family or donors of means, then by all means.
” Yoter Yegia Kapo min Yerei Shomayim”…. I saw a vort on this that explains ” Greater is the Yirei Shamayim who toils for his food , than the Yirei Shomayim who doesn’t.”
The world stands on Torah, Avodah & Gemilat Chasadim… All of this is Torah and they all provide zechusim.Re: Krushchev
He was also creative in how to use shoes.Interesting, I didn’t know about the lawsuit, but it’s weird that we have this Smartphone that could do amazing things in a second, yet I need tools to open a pack of salami…. Oh well.
I suggest we invite a packaging expert for coffee & cake to our party and explain why I ( you too ? ) can’t unwrap plastic covers from cheeses, packaged cakes, tubs of dairy products ie sour cream, butter, etc. , packaged salads, food jars covers, etc. without a sharp knife, or literally , scissors.
It’s getting worse, I don’t know how elderly people living alone can eat anything these days without help..
I understand the reason behind the wrapping, but it’s gone extreme…. Only tonite, I almost borrowed my neighbor’s electric drill to open the seemingly thin plastic stopper on the soup crouton jar… What’s going on??… and if no good suggestions are forthcoming, I’m on a hunger strike, sipping only choc milk shakes with recyclable paper straws, see if I care…. Tired of bloody fingers..
“……I can only say, ‘Rome is burning and Nero is fideling’…..
CNN, NBC, Slimes, COMPOST, LIARS all…. They’re influencing you… Every 10 minutes , a new alarm, freakout, panic attack, urgency, scare tactic, by the ugly parade of lunatics, liars, fakers and fast talking snake-oil salesmen/women…. Some barely college grads, others former DC swamp croc-fressers… It’s to drive Trump weariness into the minds of his supporters .. Bang on Trump, Bang on Trump…. Making it sound like there’s an emergency in the country..Impeach.. Investigate.. A hate media , the likes of which I’ve never seen.
Alas , you & others are buying into it.
He’s fighting back, but sadly almost alone.I agree with Neville that he picked a mostly swamp-croc cabinet, and they didn’t do him any favors.
“…….Who knows, he might be out of office by then…..”
Sounds familiar..
Wasn’t it, among other wishful thinkers, John ( Swiftboats/Purple Heart ) Kerry making that prediction to the Iranians last year?laskern,
The other side, Antifa, were the ones that began the violence. He them out when the fake media never said a word. The same group that took over the streets in Oregon… ultra leftist anarchists.laskern,
You’re probably implying the white supremicists, whom Trump never condoned. Given our history, it’s not surprising that we Jews fear them. But in reality, they’re outnumbered by the current anti- Semites from circles of varied races and viewpoints. Jewish college students across the country are assaulted by the radical progressive libs.. Influential groups such as BLM, Women’s Gestapo orgs., political groups and such, are overwhelmingly not white supremacists, and are openly anti-Semitic. Let’s recognize the new enemy for what he/she is.. It ‘s not the German Aryan at the moment.Lololol…… Freddy the shark trying to bite a chunk
out of the other” thread’ster…”
Yes, of course. …MAGAHaimy,
Too early to predict, but to your other comments:
1… He didn’t backstab ex- cabinet … They backstabbed him.
2…. A head of state, prez, queen, king, pm, whatever, doesn’t “defer”…. He/she gets advice, then makes decisions….That’s why they’re there.
3…. Good luck with Pence. You think they hate Trump? They fairly despise Pence, a moral, religious man who personally abhors the moral degeneracy , open borders, uber taxation that the Dems & Rinos are
pushing.…… but good….
GH,
You mixed me up with Mariana.Mariana,
Flying used to be fun , exciting. No more… Get there early, security, lousy food, tighter seats, extra fee for carrying a toothpick, smaller overhead bins. My relative, who’s afraid of flying, now has 5 more excuses not to fly.Sorry, typo…. ” similar to mine”
Is it only me, or has airline food gone from fairly tolerable to almost dog food ?
Just by looking through the cellophane covering, it seems that the non-kosher trays might be just as bad, since the servings look similar to me. There’s a particular deli/Kiddush making/ takeout / company who’s pretty much a household name in the NY/NJ/CT. area who should be ashamed of themselves, but they’re not the only one.If somebody could write a parody of Robert Frost’s cryptic poem, ” The Road Not Taken”, I’d be interested to see it. There’s no agreement on its interpretation , and I always found it fascinating.
Here it is:
The Road Not Taken
Robert Frost, 1874 – 1963…..Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference…..Luv The Maven, it’t terrific.
Now if Poe would only know…..Good question , and any answer given is just gobbledygoook. That should be the employer’s 1st tzedakah of the week, but there’s no hooplah, plaque, or public honor in that.
Avram,
I knew something was fishy.
Admit it…. your bite is bigger than your bark.
Because ,I heard your’e long in the tooth..“You can’t have your cake, and eat it.”
Why not ???
The correct version: You can’t eat your cake and have it.
Which reminds me; can people stop saying , “eksetra”?
It’s ETCETERA…. et cetera.“…….:But, if you think anyone holds a candle to, say, Rav Chaim Kanievsky’s knowledge, well, I’ll say it politely, you are way, way off base…..”
I’m not commenting on R’Kanievsky who’s a great rav , but in a more general way.
Your argument , which implies utter deference to who’s greater in Torah knowledge , and I’ve noticed it’s a yeshivish argument also, is not necessarily a good one.
Yehoshua was chosen by Hashem not because he was the greatest scholar in that Dor Hamidmar… Quite contrary, there were bigger talmidei chachomim than he. The final psak in a machlokes in Chazal is not necessarily determined by the greatness of a Maan D’omer’s knowledge, as you well know.
Some of the malachei Yisroel were extraordinary talmidei chachomim.“…..You have no inkling of the extent of their knowledge. …”
Same applies to you, unless you fahrhedt them…. They also have your side’s mareh mekomot, psukim. midrashim, pshetlach, psiktas , yet may interpret them differently .“…..don’t think that you will somehow convince the Chareidi tzibbur to abandon the opinions of those rabbanim whom they recognize as authentic da’as Torah. ….”
Translation : As opposed to the rabbanim with whom you disagree , as IN-authentic Daas Torah.Just to keep in mind that the Meraglim were such great gedolim, that both Yehoshua ( by Moshe himself) & Calev ( davened at Mearat Hamachpeila) needed special blessings not to be swayed by them because they had awesome, ingenius, Torah knowledge…. which went horribly wrong.
Your comment was a polite but thinly veiled condescension…” Carrying weight” as you put it, is not necessarily a measure of anything except numbers.Not sure of the invitation protocol, but under the Constitution, the prez only has to report on the State of the Union.
He can write it or video record it, he doesn’t have to give a speech. Written as been done before.Venahapechu, Purim , is coming in early this year.
To wit: Christie, a duplicitous backstabber is called ‘once principled’.
Eat another hamantesh dunked with a jug of Stolichnaya for
this one:
Corker & Flakey once had backbone.
And yes, we Yidden show hakarat hatov for embassy to Yerushalayim,and pardon for Rubashkin…. For that alone, I’m thanking Hashem for His chosen shaliach..L’Chaim, chevra….
Hey Uncle Louie .. pass me some of your home brew…I won’t tell a soul.CTLawyer,
You didn’t write; Reagan , Giuliani, Gingrich as garbage, did you??
Something in the water in your town, counselor???laskern
Re: Chas. Sofer
I heard that pipe smoking Mr. Altusky was tough on the secular dept. and the teachers there were excellent.Joseph,
I’m for it… Thank you for responding.. I’ll work on softer language when disagreeing, and maybe you can do the same.…And as I already posted on another thread, Satmar & frum clout is waning. Obviously, entertaining the yammi,- bopped Cuomo with a bowl of peaches and Chiquita bananas didn’t do the trick.
Agudah, however, never endorsed children dressing uo in concentration camp uniforms & calling for destruction of Israel by summer camp kids…or am I mixing up Satmar with
Satmar. Is the gezeira shava Satmar, Satmar a valid one?