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People think there is an easy solution to the problem, there isnt an easy solution and probably no solution
And the problem will only get worse as rents go up and there are more kollel familes than there were in previous generations, whereas before maybe a grandparent could help because they were professionals, today the grandparents are also kollel family with alot of grandchildren and they cannot afford to help the tutiotn
Tell it to the Bank or Power Company the yeshiva is a Makom Torahand a holy place and that they should not foreclose or shut off them lights because you are 6 months behind, See what they tell you
Obviously the teachers need to get paid first, but the reality is if there is no building there is no yeshiva and Rebbes and Morah’s are more forgiving than the Banks or Power Companies.
Personally I would not take a job that paid me occasioanlly when they had the money
Some tutition money is uncollectible for various reasons. The most simple reason is the person just doesnt have it
the real world economics to not apply to learning Torah.
If for some reason a major expense cannot be paid to an outside vendor (Like a bank) then the yeshiva will have to close. I know of at least one shul (not a yeshiva) that was forclosed on and became a church because the bank sold to the highest bidder (Once the bank controls there is nothing you can do about it)
I said Viable, I didnt say it was possible now.
The only other viable idea Ive seen is a communal tax and that also has serious flaws (Like it cant be legally enforced and what if the person really doesnt have the money how are you going to get them to pay)
The problem is there isnt any easy solution, Vouchers is probably the only viable one but even that has serious flaws (Like the government having the right to dictate what is taught)
Many times they dont have the money and unfortunatly the mortgage or electrie bill comes first because if you dont pay the mortgage the building can be repossed and if you dont pay the power there is no heat or lights.
Abrham Lincoln
George WashingtonIm not here to defend Joseph, but Czar Nicholas II was executed by the Bolshevicks in 1918. It was impossible to shoot pictures of the Czar in the 1920;s, he was already dead
I find it ironic, People are complaning that union teachers are paid high, but have no problem giving some Morah with 7 kids and a husband in kollel minimum wage to teach the kinderlach
Getting a “Rechnitz” to pay is a bad plan, what if one day Rechnitz loses his money or when he hits 120 years and the money is not available anymore. You need a community buy in however that isnt going to work for alot of reasons, but in your example how are you going to get the orthodox to pay for a non-orthodox school or how are you going to get people to pay, How are you going to force them? How are you going to force a Senior citizen on a fixed income to pay or someone who lost their job
People feel obligated to give a tzdekah who calls them up, no matter what the cause
Opening up new schools is easier said than done, You have to have $5-$10 Million just to acquire the land and build the building, then you have to get kids to enroll, then you have to have afew million more to get teachers and other adminstrative personal (like Janitors, secrataries etc)
Just look around you, you will many times see buldings that were started but stopped in the middle because they didnt have enough funds
Go walk around in a yeshiva, Unfortunatly not everyone is such refind person, you will see plenty of bochrim with “Unwhite” White shirts or shirts not tucked in
McDolands on Ben Yehuda was pretty cheap (If you have dollars anyway)
Spilling something on your clothes is a normal every day occurance, It happens every day. A drink accidently spills on you, you drop some food on your shirt. You are not changing your clothing because you accidently spilled some tomato sauce on your shirt at lunch. You wipe it off as best you can, but its still leaves a more of a mark on a white shirt than a colored one
The problem with the white shirts is that for most people it might actually be more a chilul hashem as opposed to more “modernish Clothing”
When one is wearing a white shirt with dress pants, the shirt has to be tucked properly into the pants otherwise you look very shlumpy. It doesnt look very refined at all, it makes you look like a slob. Shirts that you wear untucked you dont like a slob.
The other problem with white shirts is if you accidently get a stain on them during the day, the stain tends to be more prominent as opposed to a differnt color shirt where the stain can be obscured or hidden. Going around with soiled clothing does not make a kiddush hashem. even a simple water stain looks alot worse on a white shirt than a blue shirt
ASAIK the only other animal that is milked that is Non-kosher is a camel and Camel milk is not cheap either.
I dont see people running up and wanting to drink Rat Milk
If people would go to a dairy farm they would realize that its impossible to milk anything but a cow there.
One you cannot easily milk a pig, Unlike cows that are quiet when they are milked, Pigs are very restless animals and will not stand still while being milked and more importantly, NOBODY milks a cow anymore, its all done by machine with these pipes that fit on the cows udders, and machines suck the milk out of the cow, The pipes do not fit on a pig and lastly even if somehow you could milk a pig (It obviously has been done) the milk of a pig is worth more than milk from a cow, there is no financial incentive to do so
Its a vacation no doubt, but its also the first time many girls (and boys) are away from home without rules from their parents. Its very likely the behaviors you are speaking of here would happen in the US as well if the teenager went away to a seminary here in the US. The seminaries in Israel depend on money sent from rich parents in the US to stay open so they are willing to look away at certain things
I have to agree with the OP, A year in Israel is basically a year vacation
Habochur, nice false dilemma. Let the bachurim lift weights and read classic literature for an outlet.
Another thread many stated that JRR Tolkein was not accpetable
Crony Capitalism is not real Capitalism
I am just going to answer about some non-orthodox who do not charge
What they do is they have a few generous rich members who have agreed to basically pay the bills of the temple
It does a great danger to discuss this topic. If one thinks a Gadol has Ruach HaKodesh there are people who will specifically find something they were wrong about (and unfortunatly those things come up, Most famously with the Holocaust) and then discredit everything else they say
Whatever happend to the good old days where everyone dressed up as Morderchai, Esther, Achasveroah or Haman
Is it interesting? To me it was.
Is it current? Yes.
That makes it news.
Is it yeshivish? Hmmmm. ..thats a good question.Like it or not intermarrage is here and not going away R’L (Even in the charedi world, it unfortunatly exists) , there are many offspring from such unions and we have to deal with them whether we like it or not. PUtting your head in the sand and saying it doesnt happen, just isnt going to work
yes a goy can make a kiddish
Hashem
but in certain cases we can’t
take money from them for charityMost tzdakahs would take his money especially since he is a Zera Yisroel.
is it healthy for yeshiva bochurim to learn from a artscroll?
I was under the impression that he was referring to someone currently in yeshiva. Meaning, it’s not anything like 70% 30%. It’s 100% of the bochrim who are following the rules are not using Artscroll. The question is about a subset of the population, not the whole population. Obviously, Artscroll is a positive when you consider the whole population. We aren’t ignoring the lesser-educated masses out of meanness here, we’re ignoring them because they were not the subject of the question.
If you are going to phrase it that way, then the answer is I DONT KNOW and nobody knows either, Every Bocher is different. Until you know who the bocher is, you cannot answer the question. If he doesnt need it, then its a negative, but if he cannot learn without it because of his language skills then its absolutly nessasary
My understanding is that the yeshiva cares about the process as much as or more than the result. Therefore, if 30% can’t learn without it, the yeshiva should be helping them to learn how to learn without it.
Some just cant and telling someone to try harder wont make it so. Different Bocherim have different learning capabilities
These are just wild guesses, but I can assure you its not 100% to 0%
Perhaps 70% of bochrim the Art Scroll is a hinderance to learning , but for 30% its nessasary, Do we sacrafice the 30% who cannot learn without it or do we hurt the 70% who can
I am certainly up to having him help me raise money for my Tzdekah, I am not up to having him get an Aliyah at my Minyan
Dont be so sure about that
And unfortunatly the reverse is probably true as well. Someone who is not Halachically jewish, but the whole world considers to be jewish does something terrible, its likely a Chilul Hashem
Like it or not, Look into this mans life beyond the fact that he is actually only 1/4 Jewish (His father isnt halachically jewish either, Only his fathers father is jewish) , His actions are a “Kiddisuh Hashem” if one can say that for someone who isnt halachically jewish , but everyone thinks he is jewish. He gives time and money to jewish causes, He stands up for jewish people like in Pittsburgh.
Being a famous Sports star can make a difference to many organizations especially with help financially
There certainly are Poskim (Like Rav Ovadiah Yosef) who would allow him to convert on a much quicker track than just some random person off the street
But in many cases you’d be hurting them if you advised them to use it.
ive actually had this discusion with some good learners and even they told me while they didnt need the artscroll, they felt more people benefited from it than was harmed as the language did pose a significant barrier to many bochrim,
Just because something was done a certain way in the Alter Heim, doesnt mean it should be repeated
I mean the Choeftz Chaim learned by Candlelight even after Electric lights were invented.
There is a reason ArtScroll is there and in many cases by encouraging people not to use it, they are actually hurting the learning as maybe someone doesnt get some words and then loses the meaning of the whole Sugya, and perhaps worse gives up
You mean the whole point of this thread was to prove that frum jews Ch”V live outside of Brooklyn R’L?
Oh, I totally misunderstood this thread.
I thought the 5 Towns were Boro Park, Kensington, Flatbush, Williamsburg, and Bensonhurst. <.em>
Incorrect, the 5 towns are BP, Flatbust, Williamsburg, Monsey and Lakewood
zahavasdad, I’m sure there are women who dress tzniusdig in the 5 Towns but when you walk down the streets they are full of pritzusdige looking frum women with very long wigs, tight clothing and short skirts. I’m from upstate, but sometimes I find myself in the city in certain frum areas in Brooklyn and the way frum women dress I find is repulsive and irresponsible, and brazenly and publicly trampling on halacha. We have it to a lesser extent where I live, it’s not so bad as certain frum communities in the city. The first time I saw a frum man with a kapl and beard and his wife walking next to him wore a mini skirt I was shocked. This is insanity.
The 5 towns is not in Brooklyn
The other 99% of Jews in Lakewood that dress tznius should not be lumped in with the criminals. Don’t lump everyone together.
Well then dont lump everyone in the 5 towns either, The people are not monolithic there either
Im sure Hashem gets lots of Nachas from communities that dress Tzniut, but have FBI raids for some white collar crime, After all they are dressed Tzniut and the crimes are against the goyim anyway
I thought OP meant
Williamsburg
Borough Park
Monsey
Kiryat Joel
LakewoodYou talk like the non-modern crowd is all one giant connected conspiracy thinking with a unified brain. I am not guilty for something a random guy in Lakewood does. This thread is a region-based discussion, not community-based. If you thought moving to Lakewood would cause a guy to fall into the temptation to commit welfare fraud, then warn him by all means. However, that is not the subject of this thread. You are welcome to make a thread about those problems in Lakewood, but this is about the Five Towns.
You are doing exactly what you claim I am doing, You are lumping everyone in the 5 towns, They are not Monolithic, there are all kinds of people there
And for the record I do not live there and never have lived there and I dont really go there that often, I actually go to Lakewood more than the 5 towns, I do know a number of people quite well who live in both places
I did hear another story from another Rav, Sorry I forgot his name. He used to go to some office every year and collect a check from someone who wasnt religous. It wasnt a huge check, but it was a decent amount
Then the man died and his son took over the company. The Rabbi went to see the son about the donation. The Son cursed out the Rabbi and threw him out of the office and told him never to come back. The Rabbi cried and his advisor said, Why did the Rabbi cry and the Rabbi said the donation was the only link the father had to yiddishkeit, Now the son refuses to continue that link there is no more link and he was crying because of that, not because he was thrown out of the office and told never to return
Taking “Dirty” momey is a problem. If the RY knows the money comes from suspect sources like Drug Dealing or theft then it is polluted money and should not be taken no matter how much it is
I did hear a story that the Menhel of Yeshiva of Brooklyn refused to take a donation from Barbara Streisand who graduated from there, so some do refuse the money if they dont like the source
ZD, go ahead. In which communities do tax evaders, child molestors or people stealing government benefits like Medicaid or section 8 parade their crimes in public?
Lakewood: 159 People Took Advantage Of Controversial Medicaid Fraud Amnesty Program
NC
you obviosuly missed my point, When you wag the finger at someone , Be careful they can wag it back at you
There is a differnece between money from a Mechallel Shabbat and a Thief.
I think we can agree that someone who is a Mechallel Shabbat can be a good person otherwise with good Midot, Just not religous for whatever reason (Maybe they werent brought up that way) . However being a Thief or money obtained via other ill gotten methods (LIke Drugs laundering) has Bad middot attached to them
A Mechallel Shabbat who gives Tzdekah is more of a Tinok Shenihba than a thief of Drug dealer
CA:
1. Giving tochacha is a halachic obligation.
2. In any event, we’re not even talking about giving tochacha to individuals; here we’re talking about crying out against a widespread public trampling of halacha, that’s not only an individual aveira but rather an aveira that the meizid baalas aveiras causes masses of otherwise non-sinners to become sinners b’shogeg (at the least). Among many other aveiras here we’re dealing with machshil es horabim, לפני עור, etc.
Since its a Mitzvah from the Torah to give tochacha for people not dressing tzniut in the 5 towns, I guess its OK to give Tochacha for communities that have tax evaders child molestors , People stealing government benefits like Medicaid or section 8