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That list is inaccurate
Some groups no longer exist due to the holocaust and some (SANZ) have split into several groups. Sanz is now Bobover, Klausenberg Israel, Klausenberg USA , Sanz-Gribov , and Sanz-Gorlitz
And how many people asked a Daas Torah in the 1930’s if they should leave Europe and they were told to stay
According to the Rambam, the moon is a spiritual place and not a physical place meaning the moon landing is impossible
Rav Yaakov Kammentzky according to his son wanted to see the moon landing see if the Rambam was false. So he watched the landing on TV and saw the moon landing.
Later accounts of the story removed the fact that CH”V Rav Kammentsky watched TV
Of course I wasnt born in a Shtel but my grandmother was
I remember more recent events and there is definatly an attempt to whitewash history and distort the truth.
I see it right here in this forum.
Please define Daas Torah then.
Daas Torah says as I understand it
If you want an apartment you go to the Rav and he tells you which one to get.
If you want a Job the Rav will tell you which one to get.
Modern Orthodox rabbis do not give Daas Torah opinions.
They would likely refer you to an expert in the non-torah area (Like Real Estate if you want an apartment or someone who knows about Doctors if you need medical help)
Wow, I agree 100% with Chassidic Gatesheader
I am sure none of you agree with me on any of these
Kars-4-Kids not telling people where the money goes, (I am not against raising the money for yeshivas. Just tell people you are)
Askans (I think alot of our disputes here would be elimimated of the “ASKAN” was removed)
“Hemish” kashruth stickers put on products like Twizzlers and Mike & Ike
Educational System. Secular Studies is almost totally eliminated when many times its needed for life like Math, Proper english skills (The grammar in some of the English Seforim is TERRIBLE), boys are not allowed breaks for anything because its “Bittul Torah” like sports for exercise
The myth of what judiasm was like 50,100 or more years ago. This was even obvious here when people were debating what frum women dressed like. People who lived then said one thing and others said it wasnt true. Its even more so when Shtel life was like. Bnei Brak or Kiryat Joel is not remotely like the Shtel was like in Europe.
ZK
How is a Kollel Family with 10 kids marrying off a daughter whose is marrying a Kollel guy (from another Kollel Family with 10 Kids) supposed to support his daughter, Son-in-Law and grandchildren.
One is not allowed to say anything negative about a Gadol. it is a HUGE Averirah
You might not agree with that Gadol and you might not have to follow that Gadol, but you are not allowed to show ANY Lack of Kavod to him.
Riding public transport has been around for over 100 years
The New York City Subway was built in 1905, the London Underground is older than that.
Warsaw had a tram (Trolley) from around the year 1900
So its clear this is not a new issue, Its clear The Chofetz Chaim, Rav Chaim Ozer etc all knew about riding on a vehicle with members of the opposite gender. Did any of them ban it?
A Rav went to Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach asking for an approbation on his sefer.
Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach REFUSED to give the approbation because the Rav had said disrepectful things about Rav Kook.
Rav Chaim Sonnenfeld also refused to give approbations to someone who had said disrectful things about Rav Kook.
I am surprised the Mods allowed such lack of Kavod to Rav Kook, I dont think such a similar statement would have been allowed for any other Rav.
Its never a good idea to judge a person by their decendents
the Taz decendents include the NON-JEWS Gwewneth Paltrow and Gabrile Giffords
Rav Shach has non-religious grandchildren and great-grandchildren
Never put your love for your mother under any conditions.
If your mother does marry this man, Still love your mother and respect your Step-Father (In Your mothers honor)
Fly to Buffalo and drive the rest, its usually quite a bit cheaper
Rav Moshe said you can sit next to a woman on a Bus or Subway, if you dont want to sit next to a woman, you are free to move somewhere else on the bus without forcing your beliefs on anyone else.
If a Smelly Bum sits near me on the Subway instead of telling him to move, I move (Hopefully to the next car)
Health Said
<em > Stop twisting my & others words – just to be right! Noone ever said that the Halacha is for women to sit in the back of the bus.
It’s just about keeping Halacha. Some people just want to live a Torah life because they believe in the after-life. This isn’t such a difficult concept, is it?
So in the first statment you said its Not the Halacha and in the second paragraph you said it WAS the Halacha
You cant have it both ways. Either its not the halacha or it is the Halacha.
Health
Tell us where it says Back of the Bus is the Halacha. Give some poskim, give some sources
And no I am not bonkers, I am not allowed to MUTTAR things that are assur and likewise one cannot ASSUR things that are MUTTAR
I dont know you and I dont know what this is about, but I can take a guess
MONEY.
There must have been some money dispute and those are not easy to fix
+1 health
but they have No respect for Torah
You are a sinner if you dont respect a Chumra that is not in Halacha anywhere
I did not say I go to Mear Sharim to gawk of people, I saw PEOPLE go to Mear Shearim to Gawk at people like a Museum.
There was a typo there, Should have said I SAID people go to Mear Shearim changed the meaning,
I accept people who accept Chumras are not evil as long as they dont force their views on me and THEIR Chumras dont affect my life.
If you want to constantly wear a Black Hat, be my guest
If you want to constantly wear a white shirt, be my guest
If you wish to avoid Gebroachs I have no problem with that eat all the non-gebrachs you like
However back of the bus is very different as that affects other people who dont accept this chumras and maybe even be repulsed by it, I dont think anyone is seriously replused by black hats, White shirts or eating gebruckhs
And you dont think Chilionim study secular American History of the Civil right movement, especially since jews benefited greatly from it
And the issues in RBS involve Americans who made Aliyah who definatly know about the civil rights movement
I did not say I go to Mear Sharim to gawk of people, I saw PEOPLE go to Mear Shearim to Gawk at people like a Museum. They would not have a sign about Tzniut IN ENGLISH there if this was not the case, I dont think you would see such a sign in Bnei Brak.
Ive been to Mear Sharim exacly once in my life for about an hour, bought a sefer and left
I do think its unessary and disgusting (back of the Bus), but I am willing to listen to those who think its proper to give me a HALACHIC argument.
And there is DEFINATLY a Halacha that if a CHUMRA is considered bad for the torah by the outside world, the CHUMRA might be ASSUR
I will give you this, Studying history is frowned upon in Charedi circles and it very well might be lost what back of the bus means .
However those who have studied history feel very different
And YES I do consider be forced to the back of the bus to be like cursing women and spitting at girls in RMS
The fact of the matter is I have asked for Proof this is the the halacha and the only answer Ive gotten is
“Its a Chumra”
or
“Hashem Loves this Practice”
If there was a Mehitza in the middle of the bus as opposed to the Back of the bus, you would get a VERY different response
I am quite amazed that you dont.
The is a reason why back of the bus really riles up people
I am the only Noo Yawker who hates Florida
Its pretty warm here today, gonna be 59 Degrees
And hashem hates when Daniel Pearl was killed as a jew
According to that argument, Hashem loves when Charedim throws stones at people, Hashem loves when Charedim curse and spit at girls and women going to school when Charedim visit Iran and Abdijenad and deny the Holocaust
How do you know “Hashem Loves this practice” did he tell you?
Maybe Hashem hates this practice because it causes some to hate the torah.
Since its a Chumra only observed by some, Others think its a despicable “custom”
Since you said its not Halacha, there is no need for those who dont follow this chumra need to belive it in
Why should those who think its disgusting observe it?
Just tell us what posek says back of the bus is the Halacha, What Sefer says you must have women at the back of the bus and i dont mean YOUR INTERPRATATION of the Halacha, I mean a direct halacha .
If you are going to defened this practice please tell us where you got it from.
There is plenty of reason for non-religious to go to Meir Sharim. The neighborhood has sort of cache of a place from another time, sort of a living museum.
Lots of tourists want to see it
I think it wasnt clear, Some here claimed that that sporting events was avodah Zarah, it was not about another religion
There is plenty of respect for Frum jews. Whom do you think are the main money backers of many frum organizations (Especially Chabad)
What there is NOT respect for is people who corrupt the torah but taking all pictures of women off newspapers and books, Spitting and cursing at little girls. Throwing Stone etc
When you pay a fare on a bus or Subway, the fare you pay does not cover the entire fare (in NYC the Subway Fare covers about 67% of the actual cost of the ride) the government (ie the taxpayers/voters) cover the rest.
So its just just the Charedi fare payer vs the Chilioni fare payer. Its the taxpayers/voters who are subsidizng the cost of the ride.
You cannot claim its Avodah Zarah for us, You are not allowed to make your own P’shats, unless you are a posek , Name some poseks who said it was.
According to those links some poseks do hold that its assur like Rav Moshe, but not for A’Z, but other reasons like bittul torah.
According to that links, Rav Chaim Pinchas Sheinberg allows attending sporting events and the issur only applied to places of Avodah Zarah
that you will be Oiver on Lo Sechaneim which is an issur deoraysoh to praise non Jews.
If its a Sin to Praise Raoul Wallenberg, Ill suffer in Gehenom
Not if there is government or someone elses money involved
The arguments against it, can basically be used on almost anything.
Besides Eating, sleeping and bodily functions Almost anything can be called BITTUL TORAH or BITTUAL ZMAN for example.
Rav Shach for example did not drive and took the bus since driving requires times away from torah
If you dont want to sit with the opposite gender on the bus or Subway, then Drive your own car or hire your own private bus
Actually I dont disagree with the Adminstration.
Lets say they had the event on a Sunday, they would either have to pay all the teachers, Janitors and more who would have to work (You dont expect them to work for free)
And now imagine there are 25 kids in a class, Maybe 1 parent would come during the week, but on a Sunday Both parents and 4 grandparents (Maybe Great-Grandparents-Siblings etc) would come per kid, it would be a logistical nightmare
In NYC riding the Buses and Trains are things most people do most days.
Ive been on the Buses in Israel and they are not as crowded as the Subways in NYC.
Ever ride the NYC Subways during rush hour, Where you are crowded in like a sardine?
BTW Ive been to yeshiva Chinese auctions including such as Chofetz Chaim / Bais yaakov where the prizes have been Mets / Yankees / Giants / Rangers or Jets Tickets
Ive also been on group trip to Sporting events from FRUM organizations (Baseball , Hockey and basketball) there are no group tickets to Giants / Jets
If you dont like Sports, that is fine. I am not asking you to.
However if you are going to BAN it, what “KOSHER L’MAHADRIN” form of diversion do you propose.
@choc
I havent been to israel in 20 years, but they tried the Back of the Bus here in the US too.
Back of the Bus is a real Chilul Hashem and thats not only my opinion, its the opinion of many.
@Dereach
I dont know about your Chumash, but in mine AND Rav Moshe’s I dont see anything infered about sending women to the back of the bus