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The real reason I am opposed to the “internet challanges” is this is how I make my parnassah.
Its clear from the thread about auctions that many dont know how the system works and are making false Chumras and Halachas.
And Yes I DO need unfiltered internet. I sell stuff online. I dont sell Jewish stuff, I sell popular stuff and I have to know whats popular so I know what to sell. I have to use FB and Twitter to make sales. You have to for example twitter a listing to get it in Google to make a sale.
DY you were correct in the other thread. I am not B&H I am another anonymous seller on those sites (Amazon and eBay) (I do have a website, but it hardly ever gets a sale) There is no indication anything about me except where I am located.
Its clear that many do not know how making incomes online works, All they hear about is the bad stuff. There are probably alot more people like me who make their income online and need to do research online for stuff thats popular, which might mean going to websites that are “Filtered”.
Plenty of Frum Jews sell Amway. The owners of Amway are evangelical Christians who want to convert everyone and use their amway fortune to acvhieve that goal
Its not a problem (I sell on eBay and Amazon) its not a Halachic sale as a Halachic sale is money is changed hands and product changes hands which does not occur in Online sales.
Maybe B & H disables their websites, but you cant do that with eBay and Amazon
We should boycott Exxon-Mobile because they get their oil from Saudi Arabia who gives their money to Wahabis who kill Jews
We should boycott many Supermarkets because they “toivah” (Lobsters, Shrimp and Crab)
And so on
To answer the original question, while I don’t believe they are to be feared, there is good reason not to have them. We (as frum jews) believe in spending our money, efforts, time on things to help us in our growth. I’m not saying you can’t enjoy ice cream. But why bring an animal into the house when you have so much more to be doing? Teach your kids some more. If you have free time, study yourself. Give some money to tzedakah. It’s just a misuse of our valuable resources.
I am not a pet person, but most psychologists say that Pets have a positive effect on people. People who live alone for example are much happier when they have a pet. My grandparents had a dog and it was a good feeling when it went up to you for attention to be petted
For those against “Socialized Medicine”
What do you think yingerlach who live in Kollel familes do for Health care?
My point is “Schmutz Addiction” is greatly exaggerated and if you listen or watch to Pesach Krohns speech you will get to the real issue of the internet. He and many others do not like blogs that critize, some critisim is unwarranted but some isnt. Criticism for the sake of critism is bad. But Constructive Critism could be a good thing
The other thing that I think is an issue, is “New Stuff”. I used to know a Rav who would only sing Niggunim he knew in Europe, didnt matter where the new Niggun came from, he refused to sing it. In pre-war Hungary many did not even use buttons because they were “New” (They used Draw string shirts).
Many yeshivas are against Art Scroll Gemorah because they are New and have english, so if someone would have SHAS on an iPad they would still be against it and insist you use a traditional Gemorah.
But they cant say these things, so they say Schmutz . Schumtz Schmutz.
Its very easy to condemn schmutz as most people really arent for it.
What is Schmutz Addiction
Almost nobody sits and watches Shmutz 12 hours a day even teenage boys, so is someone who watch Schmutz 15 mins a day an addict?
How about someone who watches once a week or once a month?
The Pawn shop will likely give you more money than the local Frum jews
if an APP uses the internet you need the Wifi or 3G for them to work
An Iphone or Android is useless without Wifi or 3G
the internet is not just about a browser
If the only two men in the world left were Raoul Wallenberg and Bernie Madoff, I would hope anyone would marry their daughter to Madoff rather than Wallenberg.
If your daughter Married Wallenberg, your grandkids would be Jewish and they would have a Tzddik as a father and learn about proper middos
If your daughter Married Madoff, the grandkids would be jewish , Learn about how important money is and lose their neshma to it.
For all those who would not marry into a Family with non-religious members, I guess you wouldnt marry into Rav Shachs family either
If you dont learn this Gemora properly you will become a truck driver!!!!
You dont want to be a truck driver do you?
In the words of Peseach Krohn anyone who posts here (the comments section) should not get Aliyot, And Should be put in Cherem.
And we should force the bloggers shut down
The Pesach Krohn video was not a Drasha, it was filmed in the stands at Citifield before the Asifa
Who is a greater person Bernie Madoff or Rauol Wallenberg?
Ain Simcha Aleh Yayyim , Bsar and Daggim
I personally dislike Challah (Not much of a Bread eater except for Bagels (MUST be Fresh with doughey inside) , Wine it depends on the Kind, I hate “Traditional Kosher Wine (Concord Grape, Malaga)” and I hate Gefilte Fish from the Jar and barely tolerate Gefilte fish from the roll. (Only Drowining it in Horseradish makes it tolerable and then only if I am STARVING) and dont get me started on Herring (YEECCHHH!!!!)
@itche
You actually probably are. and this is not a Hashkafa .In fact All Ashekenazic Jews are probably no more than 5 or 6th cousins.
If someone is a Bt and their parents arent religious, but are respectful of their childrens newfound beliefs. (Lets assume parents are not asking children to break any laws)
What Lesson are you teaching your kids if you dont let the kids see their grandparents because their are “negative” influences at the grandparents house Like C’V a big screen TV.
Oomis said my opinion better than even I can
DY According to Pesach Kron, this website (YWN) needs a Filter and is no better than Schmutz
Do you agree with this statement?
There is a difference between objecting to Schmutz and supporting a filter.
Filters will filter out alot more than just Schumtz.
<em > I wonder how this discussion would go if the subject were traife media instead of traife food.
Whenever I see some frum kids go to relatives who have a TV in the house, The TV is the first thing that goes on. They go to the TV and stay there until they leave to go home
A man marrys a very fine girl and her father promises to support him while he learns full time.
The couple have 10 children, 5 boys and 5 girls. Each of the Boys marrys a girl whose father will support them and the girls marry Kollel boys on the condition that their father will support them. Each of the 5 Married daughters has 5 kids each.
How is a Kollel guy supposed to support 37 mouths (His 5 daughters and Son-In-Laws , 25 grand kids , himself and his wife)
Id suggest this is not the forum to discuss or ask this. I think you are much better off asking a Rav who understands these situtations better rather than take advice from people in an anonyous internet blog who dont understand the situtation you are in
You are driving down the highway and there is a big billboard right in front of you with Shmutz, There is no way to avoid looking at it as you cannot take you eyes off the road.
Obviously you cannot filter this image…What is your solution.
I was at the asifa too and I DEFINATLY heard the Skullner Rav and the Rav From Belgium (Diznger ??…Sorry I forgot his name) condem the internet as the Tumah of Egypt and the Chochma of Behamois
Absolutely wrong. Every fifth word at the asifa was “filters, filters, fiters”. From almost every speaker, the Litvish and the Chasidish.
Watch the video again…..
And just for the record, At the asifa, they did NOT promote filters they promoted banning.
One a side note there was a blogger Haredi and Proud, Many of the more modern bloggers mocked his views. After the asifa the blogger decided to shut down the blog. It was the modern bloggers who were most upset and came to his defense. They may have disagreed with him, but they liked to see his opinion and felt it needed to be presented.
Back to Youtube, yes there are videos that might be innapropriate, but youtube only puts out what you put in. If the Charedi crowd stops uploading videos to youtube, such videos as the Satmar Rebbe, Daf Yomi and other charedi oriented videos will disappear or be posted by people with more anti-charedi videos. I for one will miss those videos.
People claim about the Anti-Charedi bias, the way to fight it is to show stuff like that , It words for Chabad and they have good websites. It can certainly work for Satmar and BMG.
Yes its worse to be overweight or be a smoker, those things can kill you physically
Obesity is alot more than 10% of the frum community (probably close to 50%)
I dont know smoking rates, its probably higher in Israel than it is in the US as in the US smoking is highly looked down upon
In case you want to hear and watch the Satmar Rebbe
Look for
Historical Footage Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Teitelbaum
Most of the videos on youtube are actually fairly boring, stuff like people falling, Baby Laughing and other similar stuff
I actually also use it for travel (There are tons of travel videos there) , before I went to Italy last year I saw a few videos on what to see there.
And if you are into Daf Yomi, Its there too
Rabbi Krohn singled out YWN and VIN as the sites the worst sites especially the CR.
As far as 10% of the people being addicted to schmutz, I dont know if these stats are true, what is the definition of “addiction” if someone constantly looks at schmutz all day everyday that is a problem.
If someone looks at schmutz once a month are they an “addict”.
If we are so keen on fighting schumtz addiction, why arent we putting the same effort into fighting Alcholism, Gambling, Smoking, Food (There are probably more than 10% of frum people overweight) , Shopping , smoking, Drugs etc
And many of these behaviors are alot worse than schumtz addiction
In case you were wondering about the 1/3 of internet use was shmutz statement
The top websites are not schumtz and most of the time on the internet is spent on these sites, however these “statistics” are based on Bandwidth, the amount of data transmitted. Video requires alot more bandwidth than anything else. So someone spending 5 mins on Youtube will use alot more bandwidth than someone on YWN for 20 mins.
Most webtime is spent on sites log YWN , ESPN, FB etc normal sites not schmutz, but they dont use the bandwidth.
And if you think this is only about schmutz being banned, Watch the video of Rabbi Pesach Krohn and see which websites he condemed and no it wasnt schmutz
My son’s Rebbe called and spoke to my son. He wants to meet him tomorrow, let’s see what happens..
Is this the Rebbe that he hates? and the one you said alot of students dont like
IMO this is not a good idea if this is the rebbe
It is certainly wishful thinking that every malady affecting the charedi community is caused by the internet
Did the internet cause people to go OTD (This has been happening forever ever hear of the Haskala)
Did the internet cause people to have financial troubles because they are in Kollel
Did the interent cause the Shidduch crisis (In fact its helping with sites like J-date)
Did the internet cause people to Bittul Torah, trust me if it wasnt for the internet, people would find another reason to be Bittul Torah and Bittul Zman
Did the Interent cause the abuse crisis
Actually where are your facts, I gave you the facts that the top 15 websites were not schmutz (You can argue you dont like some of them, but thats another issue, they are not schmutz)
You are just repeating same statement without anything to back it up.
In facts it was said here 10’s of marriages were destroyed by the internet, what if I said Hundreds of marriages were created by sites like J-Date. Thousands of Jobs were created because of internet sales etc.
(And these are NOT exxagerations, I know ALOT more people who gets their parnossah than marriages that were broken up even if I dont know the reason)
The reality is people only got to the Rabbanim when something is wrong, its human nature.
People dont go to the Rabanim when they have a good job are learning nicely and their family life is great.
They only go when there is a problem. In most of these cases there would likely be a problem with or without the internet.
As much as I would like to go to the game on Sunday Night , Alas
$60 a ticket, $5 Hot dogs , $6 bottle of Soda for a total of $150 is a bit steep
Besides its a Sunday Night game and I wouldnt get home until almost 12 Midnight, some of us have to go to work
Do you deny the following Benefits
How Many Jewish babies were born because the couples met on J-Date
How much Torah has been spread by sites like Hebrewbooks.org
How much parnassah has been created from ebay, Amazon and webistes
How much money has been saved by people living in Israel being able to call families in the USA via SKYPE etc (Calls to Israel used to cost $1 a min or higher)
Etc
Yes there is “Dirt” on the Internet
there is “Dirt” in Manhattan, Why not ban travel to Manhattan
Are frum jews accessing this “Dirt” . I am sure they are.
They can also access this “Dirt” in Manhattan, Atlantic City and Las Vegas
And Yes I do think the “Schmutz” Problem is GREATLY exxaggerated.
when the Chofetz Chaim was shown the TELEPHONE, he cried, he cried because of all the Loshon Horah that could be spoken.
How much Idle Chatter occurs on the Telephone, not even Lashon Harah. Why not put a “Filter” on the Telephone.
Do you Deny that Countless Averas have been committed by the telephone , More than the internet could ever compete with
Why not put a Filter on Cars to prevent you from travelling to “Unkosher” place (With GPS and Tracking a ‘Car Chaver” is very possible)
There is no Maryis Eyin for Rest Stops along the highway
Everybody knows everyone uses them
Just check the Rest Stops along the Garden State Parkway North of Lakewood, there are always Frum people there
My Pedatriation is a Frum Female who treats her patients almost as well as her own kids. I did have a frum male Pediatriation originally and he was not as caring.
The only point of this i, There are caring Male Doctors and Caring Female doctors and there are Jaded Male Doctors and Jaded female doctors
Gender does not make you a good or bad doctor
I know this is Apikorsus, but I hate Coffee so I dont have this problem
If you have Kids, And they have to go to the Bathroom What do you do?
I have found that the bathrooms in those places are the cleanest (Certainly over Gas Stations) which are the other main public restrooms
The whole “Schmutz” thing is really a straw man, At the Asifa, they “claimed” 36% of websties were Schmutz, All these stories I see claim everyone is looking at “Schumtz”
People here have claimed the “Schumtz” is a huge business.
The truth is the Web is actually killing the Schmutz business as much of it is given away for free.
The Truth is most people do not spend most of their time on “Schmutz” websites, none of the top 15 websites are Schmutz. Most are normal sites like Google, AOL, FB , Amazon etc
The other important statistics for websites is how long a visit to a website lasts. People do not spend much time on shmutz websites, they spend alot more on sites like YWN
In Almost all these stories you can subsitute ANY modern technilogical invention.
The automobile works especially well, but you can add the telephone, Cameras almost ANTHING that is found in your average ehrich family in Borough Park or Lakewood.
Imagine the following story, there is a person who knows he is jewish , but knows very few jews. He figures he will go on the internet and find out about judaism. So he googles Judaism and because most Charedim have banned the internet. He goes to a Jews for J site as they have not banned the internet and it comes up in the search. 6 months later he is now a full fledged Jew for J.
Luckily Chabad doesnt belive in these ideals and a Google of Judaism Chabad comes out on top (At least in my google test), So this story isnt exactly true (It once was however)
I was 17 and got my license, and I disovered the Car. I could drive anywhere, I could drive to the Movies, I could drive to the Mall, I could drive and meet members of the opposite gender.
Imagine all the Wasted time due to “Pleasure driving”.
Add up all the time you “wasted” driving somewhere and then learn a “driving Mesechta”
I am sure you get the idea…
Considering I make my parnassah from this way, This is also a scare tactic.
One Sunday, with her parents away, the girl invited a classmate and friend to join her in her activities on the internet. This went on for a year and a half, with the girl spending every second she could on the internet, and her friend joining her whenever possible. The friend also began bringing along CDs she had picked up somewhere.
CD’s predated the internet. Boom Boxes from the 1980’s had CD Players . The Discman also from the 1980’s allowed you to listen to a CD in private.
Cars have CD players in them.
Nowhere did she say she went to bad websites, althought she hinted she had “Bad CD”‘s…