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Probably not exactly what you’re looking for, but here’s an interesting chassidic source strongly favoring bekius (from R’ Nachman of Breslov, Sichos Haran #76):
“The best way to learn Torah is by studying fairly rapidly without analyzing every single detail. Study briskly and simply: seek to understand each thing in its own context without confusing yourself about how it relates to other subjects.
If there is something you do not understand, it is usually best not to dwell on it for too long. Keep going. In most cases you will eventually come to understand it in the light of what follows.
When you study, the main thing is to read the words aloud and in order. Understanding will then come of itself. Do not confuse yourself by trying to comprehend everything at once. You will have much difficulty and end up understanding nothing.
Simply focus your mind on what you are studying, reading the words in their correct order and with enthusiasm. Understanding will come of itself. What you do not understand at first, you will comprehend later. Even if there are things you cannot fully understand, this is unimportant because broad knowledge outweighs everything else.
By studying rapidly you will absorb a great quantity and you will be able to review each work many times. What you did not understand at first you will grasp the second or third time round, and eventually you will understand everything that it is possible to understand.
By following this path you will complete many volumes and have a better comprehension than one who is overly precise. Such a person can become very confused and may even come to abandon his studies completely, ending up with nothing.
Accustom yourself to learn quickly without too much attention to detail. This way you will truly acquire the Torah and cover enormous ground. You will be able to complete the Talmud, Codes, Bible, Midrash, Zohar and other Kabalistic texts and all the other sacred works.
It is unnecessary to review everything immediately. It is better to complete each volume as rapidly as possible from beginning to end and then to review the entire work as a whole.
Don’t be anxious if you are unable to complete everything. One can be a faithful Jew even without being able to learn at all. One can be a Tzaddik even without being a scholar. It is true that deep perception cannot be attained without Talmudic scholarship, yet even the simplest Jew can be a Tzaddik. ‘You are not obliged to complete the work, but neither are you at liberty to desist from it'(Avot 2:16).”
WIY, I’ve never heard of people selling fake organic food. It might occasionally happen, but there’s no way it happens on a large scale. Organic agriculture is practiced by thousands of farms, some of them very small, but it’s big business — and some of these California farms are huge corporations. Corporations like that don’t mess around when it comes to counterfeit goods. If people were selling fake organics, the industry wouldn’t stand for it for a minute.
If fraud were really an issue, the best place to go would probably be a health food-oriented food co-op, because the people running the place really believe in organics. At the (out of town) place I shop, I think they actually subsidize the prices of organic produce to make it less expensive than it would be otherwise, to encourage people to buy produce rather than processed food.
Sorry — I’m not a good source of information on how to grow apple trees in Brooklyn. I’m sure there are nurseries there with knowledgeable people. It would probably take a few years, unless you bought a pretty mature tree. You would have to make sure you pick the apples so there isn’t a big mess of rotting apples piling up under the tree (as happens with apple trees planted outside of stores where I live.)
If you have the time, though, and Brooklyn’s climate will allow it, that would be a fun thing to do. I’d like to have my own apple or pear trees one day myself. I’ve had my own community garden plot for the last couple years, which is a nice way to grow a lot of cheap vegetables, making my family eat more veggies than we otherwise would.
WIY: Yes, organic produce, unlike most non-organic produce, does not contain pesticides. But don’t base your opinion of organics on CR posters alone. I recommend reading a recent article by Mark Bittman, “That Flawed Stanford Study.” Planting your own apple tree is also a good idea — a single tree can produce a huge number of apples each year, once it’s mature.
BearIsBack, I’ve never heard the claim before that organic produce actually kills people. I don’t think that’s correct. Food poisoning outbreaks have occurred with both organic and non-organic produce; I’ve never seen evidence that it’s organic methods as such that cause the outbreaks.
Yaakov: Well, there are stickers on many organic produce items. Regardless, organic advocates have some complaints about the system, and it may not be perfect (as with hechsherim as we all know), but I’ve never heard that there is a widespread problem with produce being labelled as organic that is not organic.
In the store I normally shop at, the store owners mainly buy from local producers who drive straight there from the farm, and large organic farms in California that distribute their produce across the country. There are not numerous middlemen. The store owners strongly believe in organics, and would not buy from any distribution company if there was the slightest suspicion of that company falsely labeling something organic. They may or may not fear Heaven, but they respect their own newfangled eco-ethics, that’s for sure.
Yaakov Doe: Yes, there is equivalent to hechsarim. Organic certification agencies inspect farms. They are very strict. A farmer has to cease using non-organic inputs for three years, and only after that can the produce by certified organic. The federal government (USDA) promulgates organic standards, which are enforced by certification agencies. Many organic growers intentionally go “beyond” organic by using additional practices they’ve developed.
There are some small farms who use organic methods, with no spraying of pesticides or artificial fertilizers, yet who don’t get organic certification because of the cost. If you go to a farmer’s market, some farmers will have signs saying “no spray.” It’s not as reliable as organic certification, but many people trust the individual farmers and enjoy getting to know them as they buy from them each week.
As for whether it’s healthier, there are conflicting studies. Many studies show that non-organic produce contains small amounts of pesticides. The effects on health of such small amounts are in most cases unknown but as these are often carcinogens or hormone-disrupting chemicals, many epidemiologists believe they may have negative health effects.
Other studies have shown that organic produce has more vitamins and anti-oxidants than non-organic produce — so while it costs more, you may be getting more nutrition. Other studies have contested this finding, and claim that there is no difference. Mark Bittman has a good recent column critiquing a recent study that purported to show organics are no better.
In my opinion, it is probably better for health, though we can’t know for sure and it depends on the vegetables (some absorb or are grown with more pesticides than others). What’s not controversial is the fact that organic agriculture pollutes far less than non-organic. Pesticide run off kills fish and aquatic wildlife, and has created a huge “dead zone” in the Gulf of Mexico. Nearly all this pollution is unececessary, because organic methods produce similar or even higher yields (though labor costs are higher).
That sounds like a hard situation — sorry to hear about it. Here are a couple ideas.
Rav Shalom Arush, in his recent book Garden of Gratitude, explains that we should thank Hashem for all the events in our lives, positive and negative, and pray at length to understand that everything is truly for the good and from Hashem and thus we have nothing to be angry or upset about. I highly recommend the sefer, which explains in depth why and how we should do this.
Rebbe Nachman, in one of his seforim (I think Sichos HaRan), also mentions the concept of “talking” to one’s body parts. If you have a heavy feeling in your heart, you can repeatedly “talk” to that region of your body, and ask Hashem to feel relaxed and at peace at that part of your body. Secular people commonly do relaxation exercises based on relaxing a certain part of the body. It may not always help for emotional things, but I think it could potentially help at least a little. Many chassidic and hashkafic sources talk about the life energy pulsating through our bodies, and it is easy to understand how this “energy” may get blocked or disturbed by physical or emotional causes and need to be cleared somehow.
Yo Adrienne: Sorry, my comment wasn’t directed at you at all; I just thought that was an interesting shiur, and had the urge to quote it once somebody brought up weddings. Sounds like you have a good plan — hatzlacha in doing it on a budget!
Zahava’sDad, on the topic of lavish parties like Bas Mitzvah and weddings, you might enjoy this, from a shiur by R’ Itamar Schwartz, the author of the Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh seforim (which, by the way, are available online for free in English and are highly recommended). I also recommend reading the whole (transcribed) shiur — it’s quite a read!
“Is our life serving its proper purpose? I’ll give an example that applies even in Israel. There are weddings for 3-4 hours in the evening and people do whatever they can to make them bigger and bigger, and spend tens of thousands. Did Avraham marry Sarah also in such a way? Is Hashem really pleased with all this lavishness and these five-course dinners?
When a girl is born and they make a Kiddush, people say, ‘Mazal Tov,’ and fill their bellies with all the delicacies of the world. What is the point? Does anyone really think that Hashem is pleased that everyone is eating more and more kugel and cholent?
Although there was a minhag (custom) to make a Kiddush, the real minhag was to thank Hashem, except that in addition, since we have a body, we need to have some food to involve the body also in the simchah (celebration). They really wanted to thank Hashem, but they added a little food. Where has it come now? They don’t thank Hashem any more. So what remains? Just more and more food. If a person doesn’t want to make such a Kiddush, he is criticized for not keeping ancestral tradition. To the contrary, keep the minhag! Gather people who can understand gratitude to Hashem, and also add a little food for the body. But now, the soul of it, the thanks, is gone, and only the food for the body remains.
This was a single example of our whole way of life nowadays. The soul is more and more hidden, and there is more and more body. Had I not seen this with my own eyes, I would not believe it. If one doesn’t live here and suddenly visits and sees it, he cannot fathom this. Are these proper, sincerely religious Jews? It is unbelievable.”
Yenta, Shmendrick also started a thread asking for a “new chumra,” and referred to Lakewood as Ir HaKodesh. It seems like his whole purpose of being here is to pretend to be someone he’s not to make Yeshivish guys look bad (or ridiculous). All of his comments have something crazy or unbelievable in them. So the troll label seems to fit.
This appears to be a common practice among musicians nowadays, and some rabbis apparently have no problem with it. However, there are those who say a non-Jewish melody needs to be somehow “rectified” before it can be made use of without danger (Prolific Chabad kabbalist Rabbi Yitzhok Ginsburg holds this way, I believe — you can check his website to find more).
One interesting hashkafic source on this issue is Likutei Eitzos, Music, which you can read for free in English online. Here are a couple quotes from it:
“The miserable wailing of the songs of the wicked does a great deal of damage because people are easily influenced by them. But when the Tzaddikim sing these songs on Shabbat they elevate and purify them.”
“A holy melody gives strength to the forces of holiness. But the music of the Sitra Achra, the Other Side, damages these forces and lengthens the exile. It makes people stumble and traps them like birds in a snare. Be very careful never to listen to this kind of music at all. The musicians and singers who produce it have no religious intentions whatsoever. On the contrary, they only want to make money or become famous. Listening to this kind of music can seriously weaken your devotion to God. But the melodies played by a truly religious, God-fearing musician can be very inspiring. They can strengthen your devotion immensely.”
“Man is endowed with an image-making faculty, which is one of the most powerful forces in his life, because it is through this that he forms his concepts. But because it is linked to the imagination, it is seriously prone to error. Good and evil are mixed up. But music played by a truly God-fearing player for the sake of Heaven has a wonderful power to subdue the wildness of the imagination, and the good is sifted from the bad. Such music has the power to lift you from depression and inspire you with joy. This is the way to develop a good memory, which means to remember at all times the goal of the World to Come and to understand the things God sends every day to draw you closer to Him. When you have a good memory, you are free of the deceptions of surface appearances.”
If you find someone who already does these things, perhaps she will continue. If not, you can’t force her or pressure her (as Popa says). But you could subtly encourage her by giving her time to go to do the learning or suggestions in case she is interested, including by talking with her about things you’re learning or interested in learning.
WIY, am I correct in assuming that a 1 is too short for the peyos region? Or do some hold that a 1 is OK? I never understood why we can use an electric shaver to get almost a complete shave for the whole beard but the peyos are treated differently.
Hashem gives us our talents so that we can help other people with them, or otherwise use them in our Avodas Hashem. Loving Hashem is one of the six constant mitzvos. Perhaps while you are signing, instead of thinking about how good your voice sounds or whatever (showing off, as you mentioned), try to use your voice to arouse your heart and mind to feel love and awe for Him. Or perhaps you could be a voice teacher, helping others connect to Hashem and gain self-esteem through improving their singing?
Since when did someone have to post frequently to avoid being labelled a troll? And since when are only frequent posters “important” enough to start a thread without being harassed (by a moderator, no less)? What kind of twisted and crazy world are we living in here in the CR?
Isn’t a size #2 long enough for peyos, according to most opinions? I guess you could bend back a #2 hair if you used tweezers or have really good hand-eye coordination.
There is a story in the Gemara (or maybe Midrash) about a man who would say he wants peas for dinner, but his son would tell his mother the father wanted lentils, and when the man would tell his son he wanted lentils, his son would tell his mother that the father wanted peas.
This probably indicates that (dried split) peas or lentils were common dinner dishes. Dried peas and lentils are extremely cheap, nutritious and easy to cook. They are very high in protein and iron, and other important vitamins and minerals. Our ancestors probably only ate meat once a week on Shabbos (given statements about the frequency of meat eating in the Gemara, many people probably ate it much less frequenlty).
I like to make soups with some kind of lentils and some kind of grain (brown rice, buckwheat, couscous), and add vegetables such as potatoes, sweet potatoes and carrots. It can be seasoned simply with olive oil, salt and pepper, or other spices if desired, and it’s good to add lemon juice to each person’s bowl just before serving. A big bowl of hot soup like this can even make good breakfast food (studies show people do better in terms of energy and weight gain when eating a big meal for breakfast).
I can’t get my small children to eat such food, but I know of an Israeli who feeds her whole family lentil vegetable soup nearly every day.
Chulent, maybe it depends on the state. In my (“out of town”) state, a family with children making 25k-30k *would* qualify for Medicaid for the whole family and a significant amount of food stamps.
I don’t know much about it, but I understand that people in the “voluntary simplicity” movement have figured out how to live decently on absurdly low incomes, much less than most people consider adequate. Their strategies are worth looking into for frum families struggling to make ends meet.
I don’t have any advice regarding your question, but I wanted to share something I’ve learned: people are very resistant to reading long paragraphs (and sentences for that matter). Splitting your post into multiple paragraphs would probably inspire more people to read you post, resulting in more or better feedback.
One thing to keep in mind regarding the charedi/dati leumi decision is that the dati leumi community is very diverse, including very nationalistic people and very moderate people, very MO people and pretty charedi people (chardalim), with everything in between.
Regardless, hatzlachah with your decision! 🙂
Milhouse, I looked in the back of Gutnick edition chumash, which lists the Tur’s name as Yaakov Meir ben Asher. But I googled a bit and couldn’t find independent confirmation of that. So it was either the editor’s mistake, or isn’t common knowledge for some reason.
Thanks, Aurora — I hope all is well with you too! RebDoniel, Noahidism is not a fallacy. It’s a reality, and a necessity. Many people nowadays become convinced that Orthodox Judaism is true, and other religious are not. Not all of those people can convert, for whatever reason — for example, many do not live near Orthodox communities.
Some of those people do not want to convert, because they understand that they do not to convert to earn a share in the World to Come (or, more kabbalistically speaking, accomplish their tikkun, their soul correction.) There is a huge difference between following the Noahide laws and being a completely observant Jew, because there are many details of Jewish law — Shabbos, Kashrus, davening, taharas mishpachah, etc. — which are not required of Noahides.
Now if a Noahide has a strong desire to join the Jewish people and follow all the mitzvos of the Torah, then that person is probably meant to convert. But not all Noahides have that desire. That said, I’ve head that many people active for many years in the Noahide movement become dissatisfied with “merely” being a Noahide and convert.
The “Aleinu” prayer, which is recited three times a day, looks forward to a time in the future in which all the nations will follow Hashem and cease all idolatry. That doesn’t mean everyone will convert. Most of the world will be Noahides; only a minority will convert. Once the Messianic era begins, converts will no longer be accepted. Presumably, Moshiach will inspire the whole non-Jewish world to become Noahides (perhaps retaining some of their non-Jewish beliefs and practices if they aren’t forbidden to non-Jews).
Noahidism as a “religion” is only a recent phenomenon because, well, freedom of religion and the dispersion of good information about Judaism through books and the Internet, is a really new thing. In the past, people convinced of the truth of Judaism just converted or forged their own individualistic path. Now, there are enough believers unable or uninterested in conversion for Noahidism to become a viable movement. Even so, it’s a pretty small movement and I’ve never met an actual Noahide.
Very sad — I hope that’s not true, that it’s all in her head or something. But it sounds like she seemed sincere. Rachmana litzlan!
Derech eretz precedes the Torah — how I think of that phrase is this. What is considered being a “good person” in a particular place, as long as it’s not against the Torah, then that’s a minimum floor — we each need to be a “good person,” and Torah is supposed to make us even better (refining our character traits as well as performing mitzvos). So Americans are generally a pretty nice and friendly people who smile a lot and stay positive most of the time, particularly with strangers. It may not seem like that in the big city but that’s how most Americans are. If we’re not like that too, people will c”v’s think of frum Jews as less moral than the average non-Jew, causing a great chillul Hashem. People should be nice like their life and the lives of others depended on it. It might:
“Anyone with whom his fellowmen are pleased, G-d is pleased with him; but anyone with whom his fellowmen are not pleased, G-d is not pleased with him.” Avos 3:10
“One who publicly humiliates his fellowman has no share in Olam Haba.” Avos 3:11.
Workers/learners have always existed, exist now, and always will. Some day we’ll get back to basics, and implement the teachings of Avos 2:2. Though expenses are high in many frum areas, the US labor market is very flexible, and it is still possible to work part time or just 40 hours. Working hours are on average higher than in European countries, but far less than in Japan or Korea. If people are determined to pay the bills on fewer hours to make time for learning, it can be done.
“Rabban Gamliel, son of Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi, said, ‘It is good to combine the study of Torah with an occupation, for the effort required by them both keeps sin out of mind, while all Torah study, not combined with work, will in the end cease and leads to sin.'” Avos 2:2.
Many gedolim of recent and ancient times have had two names. Among them are the Tur (13th century), the Kli Yakar (16th century), the Minchah Belulah (16th century), the Baal HaTanya (18th century), the Degel Machane Efraim (18th century). Not only did Rav Elyashiv have two names, but at least one of his own children did (probably more — I just couldn’t find their names). If having two names is OK for them, it has to be OK for us too.
Hi Aurora, I just thought I’d briefly address one of your questions.
“For the non-Jewish people who follow the seven Noachide laws, are they allowed to go further and take up some more of the Jewish obligations, for example keeping the Sabbath?”
Yes and no. There are a variety of views on this topic, but I think all agree that it’s inappropriate for Noahides to try to observe the Sabbath in all its many details. However, observing it generally as a day or rest and study and prayer is generally considered to be OK. Some rabbis encourage Noahides to take on Jewish observances beyond the Noahide laws, but I’m not sure which observances they have in mind. Keep in mind that although there are technically seven Noahide laws, each of these laws encompasses a number of more detailed rules. The Noahide movement has been growing a lot lately, and is becoming a full-fledged religion — they even have their own siddur now, which was designed by Orthodox rabbis.
Workplace bullying is a hugely important issue that affects the lives of millions of people. My uncle suffered from it a lot at one of his previous jobs. Only recently have people began to take this issue seriously (see the Wikipedia entry). In a recent survey of those who had experienced workplace bullying, among those who managed to escape the bullying, most of them had done so through switching jobs or transferring jobs within the company. A small proportion, about 10%, managed to get their bullies fired or otherwise punished. Bullies make others’ lives miserable but mainly enjoy impunity. As a society, we need to stop tolerating this.
Rabbi Al, I’m so sorry for what you’ve gone through. May Hashem give you complete healing, and end all bullying of people of all age groups.
I’d recommend the interlinear Tehillim, because then you can learn what the Hebrew means word-for-word. Even if you can’t read Hebrew letters yet, you’ll learn soon enough with some practice. You can see samples of it on the Artscroll website.
It’s a good and time-honored practice to recite Tehillim in the merit of a sick or deceased person (or in wartime for the safety of Israel), in the hope of inspiring Hashem’s mercy. But it’s also good to recite Tehillim more regularly as a way of getting closer to Hashem. Here’s a part of quote I like on this topic:
“When reciting Psalms and prayers, make sure you find yourself in everything you say. It is simple and easy to find yourself in all your prayers: you don’t need to be clever.
The Psalms in particular were written for the entire community of Israel and for each and every individual. All of a person’s internal wars and struggles and everything else he endures are all expressed in the Psalms , which mainly relate to the war against the evil urge and its forces. These are the main enemies seeking to keep a person from the path of life and drag him down to the deepest hell if he is not on guard against them. The entire Book of Psalms is about this war.
The foundation of all the different pathways to God lies in reciting Psalms and other supplications and offering our own personal prayers from the heart, entreating Him to draw us closer to His service. This is the only way to win the war. Happy is the man who persistently prays and entreats God at all times and in all situations, because he will certainly win the war.”
Likutey Moharan II, 101
Look at the most recent entry on Rabbi Lazer Brody’s blog — he noticed that the gematria for Sandy in Hebrew is the same as HaSatan. I think he said he’s going to explain later more about the connection.
RebbeRHershel: Don’t mind them, they’re just joking around about the frequent poster (under different names) Joseph. I don’t have any specific recommendations for psychiatrists in Brooklyn, but I recommend you contact the therapist Rabbi Daniel Eidensohn (you can find his blog online), to see if he can help you, or point you towards someone he recommends. He wrote his book Daas Torah after he realized that many of his therapy clients didn’t have psychological problems — rather they had hashkafic problems.
Popa, I guess we agree on a lot, but earlier you suggested that maybe only one in a thousand gerus candidates should be accepted. I wouldn’t agree to that even if the success rate of batei din was much worse than you think it is. Maybe some mentors or batei din need to adjust their approaches, but I see no reason to make things harder for gerim across the board.
Health, I don’t think that’s correct. Do you have sources?
Not exactly, Popa. As I suggested, even if we had such statistics, I don’t think they’d be very useful. Anyone reading our respective posts should be able to tell we disagree on a lot more than the feasibility of measuring gerim frumness.
Health, you don’t explain why your view is correct, despite the fact that knowing what all the mitzvos are is not a prerequisite for accepting the mitzvos. Both Rambam and S’A say that we teach them a few mitzvos and convert them. Ideally, gerim would know everything, and I’m sure most know everything they need to know, but if they have some misunderstanding or lack of knowledge about a particular mitzvah that doesn’t mean they didn’t accept the mitzvos.
Dolphina, I agree! If it were up to me, this thread would be deleted. This thread isn’t any less problematic than others that have been deleted.
Popa, I don’t agree with the question. We’re never going to have reliable information on a beis din’s success rate in converting gerim who remain frum, and even if we did, we wouldn’t know if it’s due to their low standards, versus some other factor (like luck, or how the local community treats gerim). I do think, though, that gerim should stick with the major batei din (those on the RCA or rabbanut lists for example). Even so, gerim shouldn’t be punished for going to the “wrong” beis din — each ger should be considered on a case by case basis (discretely by rabbis — not on public forums by anonymous commenters.)
Health, review the Shulchan Aruch. The acceptance of mitzvah does not require, and never has, that the ger have 100% accurate knowledge about what all the mitzvos are and how exactly you follow them. If that were the case then we might as well give male gerim semicha at the same time we convert them! Ignorance about the current interpretations of one or more mitzvos does not indicate a lack of kabalas mitzvos.
Furthermore, headcoverings are a special case, because many generations of pious Ashkenazim didn’t cover there hair, and this has continued to this day in some MO communities. So if a woman converts in one of those communities and right afterward marries and doesn’t cover her hair, it probably shouldn’t indicate she didn’t accept the mitzvos (unless, perhaps, the beis din discussed the issue with her and specifically told her it’s a mitzvah).
Now if she’s not covering her hair immediately after conversion in a community where all the women do cover their hair, that’s different, but because of the special history and status of this mitzvah, I’m hesitant to say it would necessarily indicate a lack of kabalas mitzvos. I’m also hesitant because I think it’s inappropriate for anonymous commenters to give halachic opinions on actual cases (such as the case discussed in this thread)! Determining whether a conversion was valid (and thus whether a gerus l’chumra is necessary for her or her children) is a very sensitive issue that should be handled discretely and privately (like the issue of mamzerim).
For example, Health, if one day your daughter wants to marry this woman’s son, then you can ask your Rov to discretely do some research and figure out whether the son is going to need to do a gerus l’chumra. Or if you’re approached about the possibility of a shidduch with him, then you can have the research done and say no if your Rov concludes the gerus wasn’t valid. There’s no reason to discuss this publicly.
Popa, well, theoretically if there was a mentor and every one of his gerim was filmed eating a cheeseburger at McDonalds the day after the conversion, then a beis din would stop taking gerim mentored by that mentor seriously. But of course nobody’s that bad. I think every beis din should consider each ger on a case by case basis. I suppose they could keep in mind the history of the mentor if in the unlikely event they have reliable information (not just rumors) about the gerim he’s mentored. Retroactive invalidation of all a mentor’s gerim should never occur. Individual gerim should never be “invalidated” unless it’s 100% clear they were flagrantly and publicly violating mitzvos (as generally practiced in their Orthodox community) immediately after conversion.
Aurora’s right. This kind of thread doesn’t belong in the CR. Who gave anonymous internet commenters the right to be armchair poskim trying making the world more difficult for gerim (who already have it hard enough as it is)? We should be very careful about the mitzvah not to oppress a ger, because gerim are more sensitive and often have difficult experiences in offline life as well.
Popa, I’m glad you don’t run the Torah world! (I’m glad I don’t either). There’s no halachic basis for refusing to convert the vast majority of sincere gerim simply because some of them might go off the derech or not be 100% observant to start out. Sure, if the ger says I don’t intend to observe X or Y, or I accept the yoke of 612 of the mitzvos only, he can’t be converted. But there’s no halachic basis for rejecting converts who say they accept everything (and who have a sponsoring rabbi to vouch for their observance). Remember that the basic halacha does not actually require full observance before conversion.
It’s a mitzvah to accept sincere converts. No one but the ger really knows what his or her intentions are. When the ger says the right things to the beit din, they have to convert him. You can’t refuse to fulfill a mitzvah because things might not turn out well. That’s like saying Jews shouldn’t get married because then one day if he won’t give her a get she’ll remarry anyway, with no get or with a forced get, and produce mamzerim.
It appears that some people have the mistaken impression that it’s easy to convert, and that all kinds of inappropriate candidates are accepted. Not true — nowadays, most gerim spend at least a year, often several years, learning and becoming observant. Mistakes may be made, but that doesn’t mean we should make standards 100 times more stringent than the actual halacha requires.
Popa, Dayanim don’t have ruach hakodesh. That’s like saying that any judge who gives someone probation instead of prison, and the person goes on to commit another crime, should have all their previous sentencing decisions reversed, so that whoever was sentenced to probation, now has to go to prison. The dayanim have to go on what they know, based on what the convert does, and what the convert and his/her mentor says at the time of conversion. One ger who either isn’t observant or goes off the derech later can’t retroactively passul the previous converts. Anyway, I wasn’t talking about the beis din that converts the ger, but rather the mentor or sponsoring rabbi.
R’ Avis Weiss has nothing to do with this. They might have their own more lenient conversion courts now, but that’s a very recent development. Most conversions are now done by regional batei din or other well-known batei din, such as those approved by the rabbanut and the RCA, and it’s been that way for a while (even before the lists existed.)
The reason it’s a non-issue is because if the giores or any of her descendants switch from MO to Charedi, and their conversion is in doubt for whatever reason, legitimate or not, they can do a gerus l’chumra.
ZeesKite, that’s not exactly accurate. Only a small minority of German Jews were Orthodox in the 19th century, because Reform was so successful there. The Haskalah movement started convincing many Eastern European Jews to drop observance in the 19th century too.
Anyway, as I mentioned above, covering one’s hair was not widely observed in Eastern Europe even among the Orthodox (See R’ Broyde’s article). So were all the gerim during that time invalid, because they didn’t cover their hair afterward? I hope not, because many of today’s yidden are descended from them!
We don’t know how many people converted in Eastern Europe during those many generations in which women didn’t cover, but some did, and we can be sure some were female and had descendants who survived and had children. There are even some accounts of entire villages converting in the 19th century (in Lithuania and the Ukraine, for example).
Iced, I agree, but are there any examples before the late 20th century of people making the determination that a conversion had never been valid because someone noticed the ger not observing a particular mitzvah afterward? Even before the early 20th century? You’d be hard-pressed to find any examples. It’s a recent innovation. As is the concept of gerus l’chumra, as far as I can tell.
This is one of those areas where people pile chumras upon chumras and forget what the original halacha is. If I understand correctly, there are even people now who will claim that if one ger converted by a rabbi goes off the derech, then all the gerim ever converted by the rabbi are considered invalid converts! Madness.
The practice of invalidating someone’s conversion because the ger was not observant enough afterward is extremely new. Yet nowadays even anonymous online commentators feel entitled to passul someone’s gerus! Heaven help us.
Can anyone provide an example of a rabbi or beis din invalidating someone’s conversion because of a lack of complete observance, that occurred before the late 20th century? I believe that’s when this innovation began.
See also Chapters 16 (Love) and 17 (Compassion) of Horeb by Rav S.R. Hirsh. Beautiful, very universalistic teachings.
RebDoniel, much of the sefer can be read for free on Google Books.
Whiteberry, let’s forget about Hillel for a second. What about Rabbi Akiva? If we truly believe that the root of the Torah is, what is hateful to you, don’t do to others, then isn’t it obvious why we shouldn’t harm any non-Jew? Because if we always put ourselves in others’ shoes and empathize with them, we will treat all of G-d’s creatures with respect and compassion, thus emulating Hashem’s traits, just as Chazal repeatedly emplore us to do.
Farrocks, I’m aware of that interpretation. There are others. See Sefer HaBris. Whether it’s meant as halacha or homiletics, it’s worth reading.
A nice quote from Ramak’s Tomer Devorah: One “should be a father to all the creatures of the Holy One, Blessed is He, and to
Israel in particular… And he should constantly pray for mercy and blessing for the world just as the Supernal Father has mercy on all His creatures. And he should constantly pray for the alleviation of suffering as if those who suffer were actually his children and as if he had created them.” Of course, we have a special love for fellow Jews, but that does not mean we should not be compassionate toward non-Jews as well.
Various states have legalized marijuana for medical use for years, and Washington State and Colorado just legalized marijuana for recreational use. My thoughts:
1) Marijuana is known as a “soft” drug, but in fact it is extremely harmful. Most users experience paranoia or anxiety, which can often persist after the drug use is discontinued (so much for the users’ goal of being happy and mellow). Most alarmingly, recent, well-done epidemiological studies have found that teenage pot use increases the likelihood that the person will come down with schitzoprhenia or psychosis (that is, major psychiatric illnesses that basically can’t be cured and ruin your life)! As R’ Moshe Feinstein mentioned in a teshuvah forbidding marijuana, it can also have other negative effects, such as lack of motivation and mental dullness. We should stay far away from this drug and insist our children and their friends and our friends do too!
2) That said, it should be legal! America has the world’s highest incarceration rate by far, many times the rate of any comparable country, and much of that is because of harsh, often discriminatory enforcement of the drug laws. Incarceration isn’t even a concept in (traditional) Torah criminal law. Nor is banning certain substances. Making it a criminal matter creates more problems than it solves (incarceration ruining people’s lives, violent gangs as with Prohibition, etc.).
3) As a last resort it may be useful as a medicine for some people, so it should be available as a medicine even if it’s not legalized for recreational use, but it shouldn’t be widely used because of the side effects.
Rabbi Akiva says the root of the Torah is the Golden Rule, stated negatively — what is hateful to you, don’t do to your neighbor. Rabbi Hillel says the same thing but positively — love your fellow as your self. The Gemara also stresses the importance of emulating G-d’s positive character traits, such as being compassionate toward others. To paraphrase the Gemara, just as Hashem is gracious and merciful, so should you be gracious and merciful, bestowing free gifts to all. Just as Hashem is compassionate towards all creatures, we should be as well.
The book Compassion for Humanity in the Jewish Tradition, by fascinating chassidic author Rabbi Dovid Sears, is a good place to look for sources on this and similar topics. For example, the author of the Sefer HaBris, Rabbi Pinchas Eliyahu of Vilna, actually argues at length that love-your-fellow-as-yourself applies to non-Jews.
1) Frankly, it’s not your business to go around deciding whose gerus is valid or not.
2) The Shulchan Aruch does not actually require a ger to become completely observant before converting. The practice of requiring that is very recent. It makes sense, given current circumstances. But we should keep the basic halacha in mind.
3) It’s not the halacha that if a ger ever commits an aveira the gerus was never valid. What matters is whether he/she accepted the mitzvos at the time of conversion. Eating a cheeseburger the day after the conversion, for example, is a pretty good indication that the ger didn’t accept the mitzvos. Regarding headcovering, what if she wore a scarf or something for the first few months after converting but then the yetzer hara convinced her to stop doing it, since some of her MO friends don’t cover their hair anyway? If one is observant after conversion but then becomes less observant later, that doesn’t indicate that the convert didn’t accept the mitzvos.
4) The idea that conversions can be declared invalid afterward after a convert is seen transgressing is extremely recent and extremely controversial. There is also a lot of misinformation about it. There’s a story of a rabbi who “annulled” a conversion of a giyores after seeing her wearing pants. It turns out that was a rumor and it never happened.
5) Although the requirement to cover hair after marriage is widely accepted by rabbinical authorities, its practice by frum women has varied widely through space and time. One to two hundred years ago in Eastern Europe, my understanding is that no women, even rebbetzins of famous rabbis, covered their hair. So could there have been no valid gerim during that time. because no women would cover their hair afterward? That wouldn’t make any sense. In some MO communities today, many women don’t cover their hair outside of shul. If one is just as observant as a normal orthodox Jew, but not perfectly observant on a particular mitzvah only out of ignorance (because it is neglected that community), I don’t see how that would invalidate a gerus, because it doesn’t indicate that the person failed to accept the mitzvos. Gerim aren’t required to memorize the Shulchan Aruch, its commentaries and the teshuvos of all major poskim before converting.
6) How do you know it wasn’t a sheitel? I know an Asian woman (not a ger) who wears a black wig at work (to hide her unconventional hair style), and no one suspects it’s not her natural hair.
Reb Doniel, it really doesn’t matter whether it is a Torah mitzvah, Rabbinic mitzvah, or minhag. A universally observed minhag is binding. There is only one, maybe two self-described Orthodox shuls without a mechitza (one of them recently switched affiliation to Conservative). So it’s universal. Not a single major posek has approved mixed-seating. It’s just part of what it means be Orthodox today (like wearing a kippah — which according to some authorities, like the Gra, is “just” minhag).
Mazel tov!
Buy the book Garden of Peace by R’ Shalom Arush, and try hard to implement its teachings. Seriously — this book is the real deal! Every time I have the slightest problem with my wife I realize it would not have happened if I had followed the book’s teachings, and every time I implement it, things get better immediately.
One thing to keep in mind, regarding the discussion of YCT and mechitzas and what counts as Orthodox, is that YCT requires that its students studying for semicha belong to an Orthodox shul with a mechitza.
Zahava’sDad: Look at YCT’s website, and click on Alumni. You’ll see that a lot of them are rabbis at Orthodox shuls. I can’t tell how big the shuls are, though (though I don’t know why that matters). YCT seems unique in that it charges no tuition — are there other semicha-granting yeshivas like that?
RebDoniel: The study you mentioned is from the 50s. I don’t think any YU grads are taking jobs at mixed-seating shuls now. I don’t think there are more than a small handful of self-described Orthodox shuls with mixed seating nowadays. That was a temporary mid-20th century trend — maybe it had something to do with the meteoric rise of the Conservative movement around that time?
Popa, you didn’t answer my question about whether there are Orthodox shuls that have (in the last few years) hired Conservative (JTS) rabbis (thereby becoming Conservative). Are you really aware of that happening? Or maybe you are saying that if an Orthodox shul (a shul that has only had rabbis with Orthodox semicha and has a mechitza and doesn’t have women laining or getting aliyos) hires a YCT grad then they are no longer Orthodox?
Popa, Orthodox shuls are hiring Conservative rabbis? Are you sure about that? I can imagine that happening a few decades ago, but now?
Popa, I don’t know about the leadership — my point was that their graduates are being accepted in MO shul and school posts throughout the country, so at least they have a wide level of acceptance from the out-of-town rank and file. I know the RCA isn’t allowing YCT grads to join, but are there certain MO leaders taking the lead in criticizing them? Rav Broyde has criticized them but disagrees with claims that they aren’t really Orthodox.