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@jackk You don’t have to go through all of them. Every one of the 34 counts is a variation on “falsifying paperwork”. It’s the same paperwork each time. If he’s not guilty on even one of them (which is exceedingly likely considering how flimsy the case is and the caliber of lawyers Trump can provide) the whole thing falls apart.
@ubiquitin I don’t have a source. PEMDAS is a convention, not a hard and fast rule. The ÷ combined with the “2(” is really what’s throwing the equation since in general when you’re using a more shorthand way of writing it without multiplication signs, you would also put the numerator above the denominator instead of using a division sign. So there’s no real right answer since the notation is odd and there are different ways of reading it depending on who you ask.
If you can keep it at bay with antacids and painkillers (Gax-X, Alkaseltzer, Aspirin, etc.) then you probably just have a sensitive stomach. If it happens regularly and nothing seems to ease the pain, go see a doctor.
@dbrim Why are you defending the actions of this man? Is it so important to people that public figures should be able to misuse funds to pay for aveiros?
These questions are all kind of silly, because the way it was written is ambiguous. It’s like if I asked you “I met to friends, Chaim, and Shmiel, and he gave an apple to him. Who gave who an apple?” In academic and science writing, the author would make sure to either surround everything with multiple sets of parenthesis, or split it into smaller equations so that there’s only one way to read it.
There is a way of writing math problems called “Polish Notation” where you put the operand at the beginning of the problem. It’s how computer code works behind the scenes actually. It has the advantage of not being ambiguous when it comes to writing it out. So “2 + 2” becomes “+ 2 2” and “(6 – 4) x 3” becomes “x – 6 4 3”.
Using Polish Notation, this problem can be either “÷ x + 8 2 2 2” or “÷ 8 x 2 + 2 2”
8÷2(2+2)Same a Clinton, a goy is a goy. The President is not supposed to be a tzaddik gamur, but he/she should have some basic moral boundaries that we can look up to. The actions that Trump took (which there is overabundant evidence for and he himself never denied) go way beyond the pale of what is acceptable in a moral society. Even the most mushchisdikeh liberal would shake their head in disgust at someone who did what he did, kal v’chomer conservatives who are supposed to have Yiras Hashem, and al achas kama v’kama Yidden. We should have, as a whole, refused to support this man once the allegations were too obvious to ignore.
I would vote “No”.
Although the Beit Din Gadol has way too much power, pushing them into this leftist powerhouse that can and will fight the Knesset on everything, Netanyahu’s “reforms” basically cut out their legs from under them and are clearly just his way of trying to stay PM when huge swaths of the country hate his guts.
@n0mesorah It makes all the difference in the world how powerful and influential they are! In many community you say that there are people who break the rules and claim divinity. That’s a problem that can be dealt with by a Rov or trusted person speaking with these individuals and (if needed) openly refuting their claims. However, when the Rov or trusted person is the one making the claims (or amplifying them, or at the very least, not refuting them) it’s a very different issue.
@n0mesorah I do not recall the last time I saw a billboard claiming that the Rebbe Reb Yoel ZTK”L is Moshiach. If you’re trying to compare a handful of possible meshuggenas in every group to some very vocal and powerful people that make up if not a majority than at least a very significant minority of Chabad, you’re being out and out dishonest.
@n0mesorah And yet, again by your own admission, there are very few places in Lakewood that have such a curriculum, and the community pushes the younger kids to go to Gemara-only places.
Look, you’ve moved the goalposts like, seven, times already. You went from “the lack of math doesn’t push kids to act out”, to “these kids aren’t even in high school yet”, to “there isn’t a lack of alternatives in Lakewood” with a bunch of steps in between.
Shakespeare dealt with this issue like 400 years ago. The solution (obviously) if the older sister is having a hard time getting married, is to hire a guy to date and marry her so that the younger siblings can get married.
@n0mesorah Not every group has some that confuse their leader with The Divine. I struggle to think of two. And certainly there aren’t influential people in these groups that believe and encourage such behavior.
@Marxist According to you, shouldn’t computer science PhD students work for the betterment of society, accepting their role as a public servant with no salary larger than the guy cleaning the floor?
Anyhoo, yes it’s true. People with PhDs can potentially get jobs in Wall Street and related industries where they work on developing algorithms and systems to squeeze an extra few milliseconds off of their competitor to place buy orders.
Sheesh, PhD students can make six figures right out of the gate in the tech field.
There’s a simple solution to this argument. @AviraDeArah should find three examples of Chabad Rabbonim that you do not consider messianic instructing people to ask bakoshois of the late Lubavitch Rebbe ZT”L. I’ll give you one for free, the language used on the website of the Lubavitch Ohel HaMeis. There’s plenty more on various Chabad YouTube channels.
Then, @benToiroh should print those up and delete any references to names or associations. Then bring them to three non-Chabad Rabbonim and ask their opinion on it.
@n0mesorah You said at several points that no top mesivta has a “secular” program and many of them that had, shut it down.
Pretty much everyone I know in Lakewood either laments the lack of Mesivtas that teach math and science, or would never send to a place that does. The few Mesivtas that have such programs are extremely hard to get into.
@ujm Depends on the project. Usually it’s a long term thing. Sometimes it’s working out how something needs to be designed. Often it’s debugging, trying to find out why something is broken. Generally it involves a lot of discussion, a lot of programming, and a lot of running things over and over again to figure out how they work or why they don’t work.
@ujm Computer scientist. And yes.
@n0mesorah Just previously you said that almost all Lakewood Mesivtas are only Gemara because of a lack of interest and lack of teachers. Now you’re saying there’s “hundreds” of places. Nu? Which one is it?
Desperate @nussen
Again, I don’t like giving out personal information. Not only am I uncomfortable with people in real life who know my internet IDs, but I find that when people on social media know a little about your life, they make a lot of assumptions and treat you differently. “Oh, you’re Modern Orthodox. Oh you grew up in Bnei Brak.” and veiter and veiter and veiter noch.
The Lakewood population of 30 years ago is nothing compared to what it is now. When you only had a few hundred families sending to Gemara-only Mesivtas and there were other options open, it wasn’t such an issue. Now there are tens of thousands of families and even less options than there were 30 years ago.
For most frum families living in certain communities the options are extremely limited. And they often come with a stigma “Oh, you sent your kid to that Yeshiva”.
@Avram-in-MD I don’t know by what mechanism individual ideas are being squelched. I can only speak for the results: that there is very little diversity in terms of what Mesivtas offer.Desperate:
Sorry, I’ve given enough personal info away on this anonymous message board. It was a top-tier university that has a college geared towards night school, so I was able to learn during the day and take courses a few times a week.
@leiby As someone with a computer science degree who works in computer science, the difference between a computer scientist and a programmer is like the difference between a professional chef and a guy who chops onions.
@ujm Because no one really thought of him that much. He was a billionaire menuval ba’al gaivah and that’s all anyone care about. Perfect for TV and running his own brand, but no one was looking to him for moral guidance or to run a country.
I’ve heard b’sheim the Steipler too. Old school Litvish Rabbonim tend to view brachos as more of a placebo. When you receive a bracha from a tzaddik it inspires you to be better. I heard one Rosh Yeshiva say that it upsets him that people think of brachos as a magic potion.
@n0mesorah Nobody pretends that the meshugoyim around the Golan have any sort of relevance. Na Nachs and the people who unfortunately attribute strange things to the RASHBI don’t have any sort of Torah backing. They are just unfortunate misguided people who got caught up in what is otherwise a legitimate minhag of visiting kivrei tzaddikim at certain times. There’s a reason many Roshei Yeshivos banned attending the Meron or Uman ceremonies, and those who allow it require everyone to stick with a particular group. There’s no Torah, no leadership. And no one of any relevance or respect is saying that it’s OK.
@n0mesorah This kind of is the first generation of kids to be raised in Lakewood. Certainly the first generation where the only option is a Mesivta with “Gemara, Gemara, and Gemara” as you put it.
Kids who are struggling academically since 10 need options. In some communities, there are no options and when they grow older and realize this, they act out. Nothing you said contradicts this and much of what you’ve said even reinforces it.
@ujm Thank you for your input. None of that is true.
For all those people talking about “college professors filling your head with schmutz”, have you been to a college in the last, I dunno, 50 years? Sure, if you’re doing the standard post-high school thing, sleeping on campus, and taking all recommended Freshman course work, you’re going to hit some of the worst aspects of secular society. But that’s all optional! Pick any career that a frum person can go into, and there’s guaranteed to be a track that lets you take only the required courses and have nothing to do with college social life.
The main reasons for a frum college these days (which we already have in Touro and Skokie) is seperate classes and working around Yomim Tovim. I’m not sure what a Chareidi college will accomplish that we don’t already have (other than some idiots trying to burn it down, as what happened when Touro tried to open in Monsey in 1995).
@AviraDeArah That is a very idealistic way of looking at the world. Unfortunately, even men with years of learning fortifying them, they are still human and often have difficulty internalizing their Torah and are subject to temptation. Fakhert, I would say. Chazal teach us that men have a much stronger Yeitzer Horah than women which is why we have so many more mitzvos. Women also have a stronger connection to their parents and home. So I can make an argument that it’s more dangerous for men to go out in the world.
@Avram-In-MD I’ve addressed most of your comments but I’ll pick up this one point again: Every community has kids at risk. And every community takes steps to help them. However, there is a huge factor contributing to kids at risk in some communities that they refuse to address: Namely the “Only Gemara and Halacha” mesivtas.
And I have to disagree with you one one point. I think that people are people. Individually, thinking and intelligent, but in large groups they have a tendency to make huge mistakes then rationalize it.
I don’t understand the question. You’re supposed to call the references before the first date, how else would you know if it’s a good shidduch?
@ujm If that’s the case, then you should be 100% aboard with what I’m saying. Baruch Hashem, I’m glad we are finally in agreement!
@ujm Are you seriously trying to compare child rearing and education in the frum world today as it was 100 years ago?
@n0mesorah So we are talking about teenagers, good because that makes a lot more sense. It just goes back to what I’ve been saying this entire time. Teens in certain communities that do not enjoy learning Gemara don’t relish the two choices placed before them: Learn Gemara (the thing you’re bad at and don’t like at all) for the better part of a 10 hour day or be a failure. So they act out. It’s as simple as that.I like supporting Republicans. I don’t like supporting Trump. I think Trump did some horrible things in his life and during his presidency, some of them illegal. I also think that the Dems and the media foments at the mouth to blame him for literally everything bad going in. Therefore I’m hated by everyone.
Is Matrix still the big place for frum women to work in?
@n0mesorah The Mesivta day is 9-13 hours long, most of which is spent learning with only short breaks for lunch and recess. I stand by what I said.
So these kids are acting out, being violent, and destroying pizza shops are 11 years old?
@ujm It’s an interesting perspective you have there. Wrong, but interesting none the less.@n0mesorah And why didn’t it work specifically in Lakewood in the 21st century? Every other city, country (besides Chareidim in Eretz Yisroel), and time period in the post-Holocaust world strongly encouraged it. So why did it break down all of a sudden? It’s an ideological thing, plain and simple. A silly, misguided, ideology that people have fooled themselves into thinking is Torah.
(Aren’t you Lubavitch? Didn’t the late Rebbe of Lubavitch also encourage studying math, science, and history in Yeshiva?)
You just described a ten hour day. Yeah, there’s a few breaks, but it’s still majority spent on Gemara and halacha.
“I don’t know why people will forget science”. Well, they won’t (probably). But their kids never learn it in the first place and that’s who will be replacing them.
Nobody who wants to be taken seriously would suggest that these kids are violent because they do not know enough math or science.
That’s not what I meant. Lemme explain. Kids in these types of Mesivtas are shown a single criteria for being a success: Knowing how to learn Gemara. When they fail at that, or just simply don’t enjoy it, they often act out.
WhatsApp doesn’t have the same dangers that other social media does. There’s no algorithm pushing unwanted fantasy and entertainment on you. However, there are major problems with it that I fear in general the bad outweighs the good. So many “in-groups” that specifically exclude people. Lashon Hora and fake news gets around much faster. I’ve personally experienced multiple issues directly related to WhatsApp.
I can’t speak for podcasts, I don’t really listen to them all that much. However, I think they are wonderful. Just like Rav Avidgor Miller’s talmidim and Rav Frand (L’havdil) pioneered taped shiurim so that people can listen to Torah anytime and anywhere, which then exploded in popularity so that you can find tons of shiurim, speeches, and insights sold in cassete tapes in every kosher pizza shop and shtieble. Podcasts are the same thing in a different form.
@coffee-addict Is that the Gemara about the man who overheard the neshomos of two girls talking and it took them three years to realize that someone was listening?
@n0mesora
This one’s on me, I don’t understand your question and I don’t want to say the wrong thing.
What is the schedule for the Mesivtas that you’re thinking of? I don’t know of any that doesn’t have at least a ten hour day. I mean, my high school only started English at 3:30, and then we came back for an hour of night seder.
There is an issue finding competent teachers. That is because of the same flawed system which we are discussing that doesn’t produce people with the capability to teach.
There is enough “secular” knowledge and money in Lakewood now. There won’t be in the next ten or twenty years.
I’ll answer your second question with another question: Do you think the failures I am stating are about the Yeshivos not teaching mycology or not teaching basic minimal skills required to by in life, such as math, science, and social?
@n0mesorah Almost every Mesivta I know of starts with davening sometime between 7 and 8, and has a full schedule until at least 5, often with night seder. That’s ten hours.
I mention Gemara and Halacha because in those type of places, those are generally the only two subjects that are actually taught. (Though, now that I think of it, Mishnayos too.) Chumash, kids are expected to learn on their own, math is assur, mussar usually boils down to a speech once a week and maybe some Mesilas Yeshorim bein ha’sedarim, science is apikorsus, and Nach is usually not taught at all. So Gemara and Halacha.
I’ve heard from many Lakewood parents that they wouldn’t send to the high schools with curriculums other than Gemara and Halacha because those aren’t good enough. I don’t know exactly where it started, but it seems pretty obvious to me that it’s very ideologically driven at its core. The movement has so much momentum that even if there’s a silent majority that wishes Yeshivos would offer math, science, history, etc. they are swept up with those that actively fight against it.
It’s leading to disaster in the sense that there simply isn’t enough knowledge to support our growing frum community. We need askanim, businessmen, scientist. People like Rav Moshe Heineman SHLITA who can take apart an oven and determine how can be redesigned to be opened on Shabbos without an engineering degree are few and far in between (and even he relies heavily on Star-K engineers). People lobbying the government who are currently fighting for the “right” for parents to raise kids ignorant of anything outside of Gemara and Halacha are themselves mostly college educated. The real estate companies that employ massive amounts of frum people are run by those who learned math and social studies in high school. And I’m not even going into the massive amounts of sheer illiteracy plaguing our community where people eschew doctors in favor of “natural cures”, bringing long dormant illnesses back, or those that literally believe the Earth to be flat. Where will these people come from in the next generation?
We are already seeing this happen in Eretz Yisroel, nebech. The only reason the Chareidi oilom precariously survives is a combination of the massive amount of power in the Knesset allowing tons of aid to be directed to Chareidi families. And that’s still not enough, as evidenced by the sheer number of people who survive on tzedaka alone, often forced to travel overseas just to beg! This is the future we have to look forward to if Moshiach doesn’t come soon.
And we wonder why there is so much teen violence.
@n0mesorah Those who interpret your sources, like the Zohar, to state that a neshoma can see and act in the manner which many Chabad Chassidim attribute to their late Rebbe, is exclusive to Chabad. No non-Chabad Rov interprets them as such. Neshomos have a very limited view into this world.
@ujm So then name them and quote what they said. As far as I know, there was one Rosh Yeshiva (who himself went to a Yeshiva high school where he studied math, history, etc. and is now considered one of the Gedolim) twenty years ago said that in Eretz Yisroel there are more talmidei chachamim because the Yeshivos only teach Gemara and halacha. However, various members of the Moetzes openly disagreed with him and he himself has backtracked on that statement (and continued to lead a Mesivta that has a full curriculum in math, history, etc.).
@AviraDeArah Yes, that is true, I should have clarified. Some Neshomos in Shomayim do have a view and understanding of some of the things going on on Earth. However, as far as we know it’s extremely limited.
@benTorioh You didn’t address a single thing I’ve said! I’m not talking about whether Moshiach will be from the Mechayeh Meisim or before. I’m talking about worshipping dead people. And I stand by that. There is no non-Chabad frum Rov who will say that people in Shomayim watch what’s going on in the world, listen to teffilos directed towards them, and respond to those bakoshois.
You’re the one being motzei shem ra. The criticism of Chabad for these actions and beliefs is extremely well known and as universal as possible. You’re saying that all these chashuva chashuva Gaonim don’t understand a pashuteh Gemara!?
@ujm But just previously, the other guy said that the Roshei Yeshivos had no issue with secular studies and it was the parents who just weren’t interested! Which one is it? Come to think of it, I cannot recall a single American Rosh Yeshiva stating that it’s “imperative today to eschew secular studies”, especially since that would be cholek on some of the most prominent Roshei Yeshivos alive today in places like Philly, Torah Vodaas, Chaim Berlin, and Darchei Torah.
I do believe “Hashem has no body” is more complex than you think (we have many Gemaras, pesukim, and ma’amorim that refer to body parts when talking about Hashem). And I think it was one of the Ani Ma’amims that fell under a machlokes Rishonim. Still, there is universal agreement that Hashem absolutely does not have a body in the way we understand and does not C”V put himself into human form.
@n0mesorah Depends on how you define “worship”. I’m pretty sure that most poskim agree that saying a teffila asking for a bakosho from a dead person with the intent that the dead person can hear the teffila and act to fulfill the bakosho constitutes “worship”. Lubavitcher Rabbonim are literally the only Jews who disagree with that.It’s literally on the website of the late Lubavitcher Rebbe’s Ohel HaMeis and repeated in countless Chabad speeches and outreach programs available online. I’m just going to leave off with some Gan Izzy songs:His father hears and explains<br>
“My dear son, there is one indeed<br>
Since you’re a chossid, you’re personally loved<br>
By the Rebbe, who cares for your needs”<br>To be a chossid I strive, to the Rebbe mekusher<br>
To give over my life to the Rebbe’s avodah<br>
I yearn to be close, my heart and my soul<br>
A connection to the Rebbe I hold<br>Though now we don’t see the Rebbe lematah<br>
In a guf physically, the work so much harder<br>
But a talmid I am, his Torah I learn<br>
While I eagerly await his return<br>Our Faithful Shepard won’t forsake his flock,<br>
The Rebbe’s loving care will never stop,<br>
In spite of the darkness, The Rebbe hears our cry,<br>
For He is a diamond in the Rebbe’s eyes.<br>@Milhouse Again, your comment reminds me of Al Jazeera reporting on a Hamas murder. “Israeli settler invader stopped by courageous freedom fighter”. Same same.
@ujm Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L also lived 70 years ago and we should not be beholden to his ideas regarding how frum communities should be set up since the world has changed so much since then. Besides, Rav Schneur ZT”L didn’t seem to have any issues with frum High Schools in Lakewood that were started in his time.
@n0mesorah I’m sorry, but do you mean that you can’t name one Mesivta that has a ten hour day with only Gemara and Halacha? And yes. There was an ideological choice that was made (the mechanism of how it was made isn’t clear and I know you’re going to jump on me if I don’t get every detail exactly correct). At some point in the last 20 years, many frum communities decided on an anti-Torah derech of insisting that anything other than Gemara and Halacha is batala. In time, this will lead to disaster and we’ll have the usual tehillim zoggins and askanim begging to mitigate that while these communities pretend that they don’t know why this disaster is happening.@Good-to-know “Evidence or not, this is what they believed”. And John Hinckley jr. believed that he will be able to marry his favorite actress if he murders President Reagan. And Saeed Hotari believed that if he would murder Jews waiting in line at the Dolphinarium nightclub, he would be killing people that were causing him pain and all the troubles of everyone he loved will end.
Why do we care what meshuguyim believe when they act on their insanity rather than logic?