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Agav, according to the Satmar Rebbe Hashem didn’t create miracles to protect the Yidden in Eretz Yisroel. He allowed the Suttan to give a koach to the State of Israel due to the aveiros of Kl’al Yisroel.
My in-laws have a frum family next door with an angry little chihuahua that they used to keep off the leash and unfenced. So far my only interaction with these people has been angrily shouting at them from with inside my car as the little animal attempts to kill my sedan. My in laws were always too nervous to say anything as they didn’t really speak much and wanted to have good relations with them.
I was always wondering what Chassidim whose minhag is to do a Mitzvah Tantz do by a chupas niddah where it will be glaringly obvious to everyone sitting there.
Approximately every 19 years, but it’s often off by a day in either direction due to leap years.
Unless those 19 years encompass 1582, because then it will be off by 9 days.
A story I always repeat when I hear about how (can we not beat around the bush?) a girl with oodles of dough is an advantage shidduch wise.
I know a guy who felt that way. He grew up in a modest household where both of his parents worked and just managed to pay for their childrens’ Torah education. He knew that there was no way he would survive in an American kollel and he ended up with a wonderful girl whose father was willing to support them for several years.
Well, it turns out that not all of the fathers money was Glatt Yosher and not even two months after the chasuna, all support was pulled out and the parents fled the country. The couple had to take on some serious debt and work multiple jobs to break even.
They are happily married now with several children, but I always think about how much more time he would have had to learn had he just decided before hand to plan things out a little and not just rely on his wifes’ familys’ support.
I don’t think it’s so much an issue of drafting B’nei Torah as it is an issue of Kollel Yungerlite not working. In theory, if instead of a draft/kollel option there would be an option for anyone over 30 to leave kollel and get a job, a lot more Chareidim would be working and a lot less non-Frum would be angry at them.
The problem is that it seems to me that any attempt by anyone to institute a tertiary option is met with ridiculous cries of “destroying the oilom haTorah”. Can’t everyone just agree that there can possibly be something other than “soul destroying army duty for a treifa medina” and “learn in kollel on government handouts and whatever you can schnor no matter how much of a masmid you aren’t”?
Is it the Diaspora Yeshiva Band song Hafachta? It starts with:
You brought me up when I was down,
Oh yes you did.
I’m not sure about posting YouTube links, but searching for Diaspora Yeshiva and Hafachta brought up the song.
snowbunny: Don’t bet on it being more “chilled”. Har Nof is only about a quarter Anglo. And the Anglos are often more sincere in their Chareidishkeit then the Sabras.
My mother used to make it from time to time. She preferred cholent (my parents have a mixed marriage, my father’s Yekkish and my mother’s Ungarisch). There are two types, ground and whole. I always preferred whole, prepared like a cholent in a crock pot with maybe some cut up sausage for taste.
Health: I’m sorry, was Sanhedrin re-instated when I wasn’t looking? Have you been declared a Navi? Because you seem to understand how exactly Israel is protected from violence very well. How else do you know that Hashem will send thousands of blood crazed Hamasniks into B’nei Brak the minute someone leaves the Bais Medrash to get a job!?
I’m sick of hearing about how the Chareidim “protect” the Medina. Nobody knows that and nobody has reshus to say that. Do you think that Jews in America are less protected by Hashem because there is a smaller percentage of people learning in Kollel? Don’t be ridiculous.
I’m sorry, but the main issue with the Israeli Chareidim is their refusal to go to work. If there never had been an IDF draft, there would be no Chareidi society like there is today. They go to Yeshiva not to protect Israel but to avoid the draft. And while ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? you still can’t argue that they should not get jobs if, in theory, the draft would cease to exist.
Maybe you should get a “real” Rav to speak with him as to how it’s not b’kavodik do wear a kapoteh or give shiurim.
Health: Which is where the issue stems from. The Chareidi lifestyle wouldn’t survive a day if it weren’t for the vast amounts of economic aid the Medina provides them. Since they by and large don’t make enough money to support themselves, they rely on that aid. Since the non-Chareidi sector by and large do support themselves plus pay taxes that end up in Yeshivas, there is a lot of animosity against them.
Depends what you want to do with it and what year you are living in. If this were 2005 I would tell you to get a BlackBerry. Otherwise I’d tell you to get a Galaxy as it’s probably cheaper than an iPhone.
crazybrit:
Please stahp. Please stahp naow.
Not just Chassidim. Yerushalmi women also shave their heads.
I firmly believe that if the Chareidim would be in the workforce in equal numbers of non-Chareidim, there wouldn’t be such an outcry to force them into the army.
Posting on Internet forums and have random strangers acknowledge my opinions.
For only $180.00 a minyan of talmiday chachamim will get drunk for you on purim. They are calling the organization Kupat HaBeer
What sechuyos do they guarantee? I won’t donate money to any tzedaka that doesn’t at least promise an end to all suffering.
What do you mean by harassing? If you mean a comment that does nothing but demean another poster, then adamant no. If something else, then please explain.
If your only comment on a post is a comment on the grammar, then you obviously have nothing to contribute to the conversation.
Still, proper speling, and grammer should at the very least be encouraged.
OneOfMany and 42: A lot cleaner than Hitchikers Guide. Except that one book with that one song about a hedgehog. And there is a metric ton of innuendo, especially the witches and Wee Free Men series.
There’s also quite a bit of apikorsos in there, but it’s presented in a fantasy oifen. (One book, for instance, deals with the god of evolution who happens to be an Atheist.) And, as I always say, if you think that reading a book is going to change you beliefs in HaKadhosh Baruch Hu, you have many more problems to worry about.
All in all the books are hilariously funny.
Did she just start going out? Then bad bad bad bad bad idea. Has she been going out for 3+ years? Then maybe.
What snew? I didn’t see no snew. Don’t live in New Yawk or Joisey or Bahstan.
IANAL (I am not a lawyer) but I do believe that there is something called “Contempt of Court” which is punishable by law.
What does the hapences have in his pocketses?
Maybe you need to find an outlet. I don’t know, scrapbooking, or learning TANACH or playing violent video games. Attach a ridiculous amount of importance to that outlet and maybe you’ll stop seeing your job as something that requires perfection.
That’s my 2 cents, it’s what I’d do in your situation. But for yourself, I would highly suggest you speak with a competent professional, like a Rov or a guidance counselor.
The man (or woman) who least wants the job. Because he/she is the only one capable of doing it.
42: How is it that you know all about towels, hitchhikers, improbability, tea and the Great Question, but you’ve never heard of what is essentially the fantasy version of that, except six times the size?
I think I’d be Offler due to my temper. But I’m a little naive, like Twoflowers offset by a bit of Vimes’s cynicism. I also have Rincewinds memory for important things, and Dorfls feet of clay (not to mention his brethren, Klutz, Shmatteh, Meshuggah and Aghammarad).
But I think out of all of them I would have to go with Not-As-Big-As-Big-Jock-But-Bigger-Than-Medium-Jock Jock.
So, OneOfMany, which character are you? Granny Weatherwax? Twoflowers? Archdeacon Ridcully? Dorfl?
Ook!
My point is that racism was the norm in Twains era and by no fault of his own, he also believed in it to a certain extent. Just read the scene near the end of Huckleberry Finn where Jim is captured and locked in a small shed while Huck and Tom work on an overly romantic plan to get him to escape. The whole time Jim obviously has no idea what is going on, but he goes along with them because he just assumes that they know better than he as to what to do. There’s even a line where Jim muses on the fact that they are white, so they must know what they’re doing.
Also, several times throughout the book, blacks are referred to as almost sub-human by some of the main “good” characters.
OneOfMany: Ook?
Confucious: I agree. I personally never liked those places either for the same reason, it’s an “in town” thing. The larger the frum community, the more tznius issues there are.
When I was learning in Eretz Yisroel I sat next to a chashuva yungerman who is currently a Rosh HaYeshiva. He once asked me, quite bluntly and in front of several others, how much money my father makes. I retorted with “Tznius isn’t just about skirt length” (and probably threw in some insult involving Brooklyn or Lakewood while I was at it. Give me a break, I was 19). That lead to a whole new argument where he talked about how there is no problem with discussing things that come Min HaShomayim, which I eventually conceded but later regretted doing so.
OneOfMany: Yes. The one where the sole black character who is given any voice is constantly looking up to a pair of troublemaking 12 year olds because they are de white man. It’s also the same book where a character offhandely mentions that no one died on a steamboat boiler explosion, but a couple of n*****s where killed.
Or even petition the government not to draft Yeshiva bachurim who have been learning for 10 years? Have they ever even considered those things? No! And why not? I have no idea why not, but it seems to me that they are afraid of change.
Also, statistics show that the poverty level amongst Chareidim is close to 50 percent, compared to %7 in the rest of the country. Of course the Chareidim use a disproportionate amount of the tax money and contribute a disproportionately low amount.
My suggestion is to buy an Android phone. Used Android phones are much more common in the market and you can legitimately do things that can only be done on a jailbroken iPhone.
Apple is very restrictive about iPhones, forcing users to buy only through authorized carriers like Verizon and AT&T and forcing all app installations to go through the App Store. AT&T and Verizon may sell “refurbished” phones, but chances are they won’t be much cheaper than new phones as they make their money off of big plans anyways.
An “unlocked” or “jailbroken” iPhone is a phone that has been hacked to get around those restrictions. There are a lot of disadvantages to having a jailbroken phone, such as possibly being locked out of you data plan or having the phone get bricked when it tries to update, and it’s not recommended unless you know what you are doing.
Lakewood has the advantages of affordable housing (at least compared to Monsey or Brooklyn), a huge yeshivishe community with many choices in Yeshivas and Bais Yaakovs, close to major job areas, close to many peoples friends and family and established systems for yeshivishe families. Everything is centered around Yeshiva life and the various gedolim who basically have final say in anything that goes on.
All that being said, I can never see myself living there like many other members of my family chose to do. There is a huge boom in children that resulted in massive competition to get into schools. Homes are built cheaply and often have major maintenance issues. Properties are tiny and it results in a sever lack of the type of tznius not taught in most Bais Yaakovs. There is a ton of “frummmer” competition with everyone worried about what everyone else thinks, much more that out-of-town places, that results in everyone attempting to “fit in” to some weird standard of frumkeit. Most high schools don’t have secular studies (although that should change once the Lakewood babies start hitting 14). Traffic is utterly miserable.
Even assuming that all army services are non-negotiable, there is still “Sheirut Leumi”. Why can’t the Chareidim come up with a kosher service that doesn’t have the tznius problems with “Sheirut Leumi”? It’s not just a matter of rejecting army duty, the rejected it and refused to propose an alternative.
I believe that he was an anti-semite because he had a false image of Jews that was very common at the time.
In the same vein, Mark Twain would be considered a racist (try reading “Huckleberry Finn” and you’ll see what I mean) in our time, but in his time he was very liberal and progressive for suggesting that blacks and whites can be friends and that slavery is wrong.
FYI, the word a lot of you are looking for is “shababnik”. That’s a Chareidi Yeshiva bachur who never shows up to the Beis Medrash but has been enrolled in the Yeshiva for several years in order to get out of Army service. That’s the Israeli equivalent of a 2.0 GPA and they are rarely asked to leave Yeshiva. A good Yeshiva will still have about one out of twenty shababniks for every talmid chacham.
There is a group of Eastern European men who go around shuls in New York and New Jersey. They never have any haskomos and it’s patently obvious that they aren’t frum and I’ve heard some rabbonim put doubts on whether they are Jewish or just mooching off of Yiddishe chesed. Either way, I don’t ever give them anything.
plonis:
Actually the vast majority of people I knew were Israelis, not Anglos. I found that amongst Anglos it was a lot more common for the father to have a job, as it’s easier to get out of army duty. I simply find it hard to believe that there are so many jobs in Eretz Yisroel that allow a women to take care of her family, work at home and still support a full family.
That being said, allow me to get back to my original thoughts. I just have a very difficult time understanding the Chareidi lifestyle and why the vast majority of Chareidim put such an emphasis on not changing it one iota.
Let’s understand one thing: Kollel Yungelite keep the world standing. Many of the greatest Rabbonim alive today wouldn’t be who they are without kollel. That being said, I do not believe that a kollel lifestyle is for everyone. My issue with the Chareidi system is that it basically forces <i>everyone</i> to adopt that lifestyle. An American Oleh, farinstance, who knows himself well enough usually decides that Eretz Yisroel is the place to live as it’s a lot cheaper and easier to live there while learning in Kollel. His children, though, don’t have the same choice. They can either sit in Kollel tug unt nacht, or they can join the army (which is not really a choice in most Chareidi families).
What I have difficulty with is how every time the idea is floated to give Chareidim a choice whether to sit in Kollel forever or do something else, it’s always hotly opposed with angry shouts of people claiming that they are dragging Yungerlite away from their learning and mothers from their children. Why can’t Chareidi politicians, Rabonim and askonim petition for some sort of compromise where whomever wants to sit in Kollel may do so and whomever wants to go to work may do so too?
Now, let’s face it. Some 99% of tax revenue comes from the non-Chareid sectors in Israel, yet the much more that 10% the national budget is spent on Chariedim. Why shouldn’t the non-Frum be upset about this?
popa
But your description says “perhaps” a women! That means you still may be Mr. Popa.
I honestly don’t see the issue with it. It’s a silly goyishe custom and if someone wants to do it, gezunteh heit! I don’t see anyone complaining about crowds standing up for the Kallah (another goyish import).
plonis:
I know that a Chareidi family generally make enough from the wife’s job and the kollel stipend to live day to day, but what about big expenses like marrying off kids or buying a house? Even buying clothes becomes a huge expense after a while.
Also, while I cannot comment on your personal status as you obviously are in a position to know a whole lot more than me, but I have a few questions about how you are describing Chareidi life in Eretz Yisroel. When I was there for Yeshiva, the vast majority of Chareidi friends that I had lived off of the Yeshiva which lived off of American donations. Most of their mothers did not have full time jobs and those that did didn’t make nearly enough to support their children. Almost none of the fathers worked in any non-Yeshiva position. They lived “day to day” based on the fact that the government paid for a huge portion of the Yeshiva starting from Yeshiva Ketana, so children basically stopped relying on their parents from when they turned bar mitzvah until they needed to get married. Did I miss something? Because that’s how most people I knew lived.
Like this ?? . What seems to be the problem?
DaasYochid: You misunderstood what I said. I’m not advocating for the government to force people to leave Yeshivas. I’m simply saying that a reason why Yeshivas are so packed has more to do with welfare traps than limud lismah. It’s not the Zionist governments responsibility to fund Yeshivas and I have no issue with them cutting the funds and do not see it as “forcing” people to leave Yeshivas.
plonis3141: Do you have any children? Do you remember paying for the hospital bills or insurance costs when you gave birth? No. Because “the frei” payed for that. Does you husband get a kollel check? Where does your husbands kollel get the money from to perform maintenance? Do you have enough money set aside to pay for your childrens chasunas (I’YH)? Why are 99% of meshulachim that come to my house from Eretz Yisroel? Why are 70% of them collecting for their own families? Why do statistics show that some 90% of B’nei Brak lives below the poverty line?
The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Chareidim don’t make nearly enough money to support themselves without government help, forget about there being enough to support community chessed and mosdos.
torah613613torah
What sort of class are you taking where ?? is written on the board more than once? Intro to Theoretical Infinite Sets?