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@Health Dr. Levine grew up mostly secular, with little to no concept that Yiddishkeit should take precedence over whatever society deems morally correct this week. I think Tinuk SheNishba is the perfect description.
@daas-yochid I don’t want to put you on the spot, I just like to know where people stand on certain issues when having a discussion with them. If you don’t want to answer, that’s fine and good day.
@health Look up RASHI and the meforshim on that mitzvah. It’s not clear that Dr. Levine is being oiver it. Besides, how many mechalelei Shabbos and achilei tarfus did Trump have in the White House? Where’s your condemnation on him because of them?
There were literal Nazis and other anti-Semites at the Charlottesville rally. Instead of condemning them, Trump just kind of gave a wishy-washy response about how there were good people there too.
Umen. I may not like the guy, but I do appreciate the things he’s done for us. And I do recognize that it’s unlikely many of these things would have gotten done under a Democrat.
@commonsaychel I am unaware of any aveiros that Dr. Levine publicly flaunts. And if you can list any, I’m certain I can find an equal or greater number of Jewish Trump appointees that have also committed aveiros.
@avram-in-md My supporting example in this particular comment was Israel which I was told some incorrect information about. My supporting evidence is the overwhelming opinion of Da’as Torah and secular medicine and the indisputable facts (yes indisputable. No, token handful of “expert” opinions on a quasi related matter doesn’t count) that the dangers of the vaccine pale in comparison to the dangers of allowing COVID-19 to continue unchecked.
@commonsaychel According to @health, the only criteria we should be looking at when discussing a goys morality is whether they are oiver on mitzvos B’nei Noach. I don’t believe Dr. Levine has been, at least not publicly (unless there’s some eating the leg of a live cow I’m unaware of) so there’s not a problem in that regard.
@daas-yochid Before I respond to that, can I ask a few unrelated question? What is QAnon? Did NASA land on the Moon?
@avram-in-md Avereimele, you are pulling the same old schtick of ignoring my main point to focus on some narische technical inaccuracies. Fine I was wrong about Eretz Yisroel. Nu, what about the vaccination program?
@health So now the one and only criteria on who is a candidate sent from Shomayim and who is literally pure Re’shoim is based on how many Aveiros Chmuros they are oiver based on a limited view of Mitzvos Bnei Noach? I can make the same arguments that the Republicans refused to act on COVID thus being oiver on Hariga. Or having a First Lady who was openly a mezaneh.
I implore you, look at what Rav Shach ZT”L would say when he would speak on the eve of a big election. Neither party is “good”, we just have to daven that whoever wins will at least be good for the Yidden in some ways.
@Health At this point it’s a cry wolf scenario. The hard-core Trump believers have been saying for months that any day Biden will be forced to concede. Now we are down to one day and we’re talking literally a neis niglah to prevent…. what exactly? These goyim from having control as opposed to the other goyim?
@syag-lchochma Well if you already had COVID I don’t see the purpose of getting the vaccine. But you should schedule one for some time in six months which is about when antibodies start to wear off. And Israel extended the lockdown, but they are already seeing a decrease in COVID severity that they are attributing to the vaccine.
@syag-lchochma Research shows that 10% of people who get COVID experience severe symptoms and about 10% of people who get the vaccine experience mild symptoms. If the millions who got the vaccine had instead gotten COVID, there would have been a few thousand vaccine deaths already, plus hospitals overrun with vaccine injuries. Instead, look at Eretz Yisroel. For the first time in weeks, the strain on the hospitals is easing up. Because so much of the country has been vaccinated.
I don’t believe there are two sides to this issue anymore than I believe in their being two sides to flat Earth theory or whether Donald Trump is a reptile. What I believe in is the Torah. And everyone I know and know of who is a Talmid Chacham is promoting getting a COVID vaccine. So either stand on the side of Torah, or stand aside.
@Health I don’t see it as being clear at all. I see a man who has committed numerous acts which are condemned by the Torah, even if most aren’t to the extent that would make him chayiv misa. I see a man who’s morals and public policies change on a whim, depending on who would vote for him. I see a party willing to support such a man. I see a government that has near-unanimously decided that all sorts of to’eyvos are OK. And I have yet to see a good Torahdik reason why either party is any better.
@syag-lchochma Even if you’re healthy there’s very good reasons to get vaccinated. Vaccines, like masks and social distancing, are more about preventing others from getting the virus than yourself. Sure you may not mind a week long fever followed by months of coughing, fits, and loss of smell, but it’s unfair that immune compromised people should have to perpetually lock down and suffer because of that.
@trybepolite Not quite true. It takes 10 years for a vaccine to get approval. In general, to test a new drug on tens of thousands of people, there needs to be years of back and forth between the pharmaceutical company and the FDA with tons of chemical, animal, and small-scale people testing. Because testing on tens of thousands of human beings is dangerous. By the time a vaccine is ready to be tested on a large scale, there’s generally only about a year or two until it gets approved, most of which is spent figuratively waiting on line. Trump’s Operation Warp Speed allowed companies to move to large scale human testing much faster by skipping many in between steps. This caused issues that you usually don’t see in testing, such as the Astra Zeneca COVID-19 vaccine which gave some people nervous disorders.
We have been cautious. We know the side effects. And right now the side effects are looking an awful lot safer than COVID-19.
@ujm While I understand the concern, you are starting off with a false assumption. We aren’t the guinea pigs. There already were guinea pigs. Tens of thousands of people have tested the vaccine, and after many months the worst side effects were a few weeks of feeling bad. On the flip side, an equal number of people did not get the vaccine (the control group) and many more of them fell ill in a much more severe manner (COVID-19).
I agree with @charliehall. Although all the effects may not yet be known, it is a near-certainty that the dangers of not taking the vaccine far outweigh the dangers of taking it.
As for demographics that may be in danger, such as kids and people with certain illnesses, the vaccine isn’t approved for them and they won’t be taking it until it is.
I welcome being corrected, but I still fail to see how we can classify an avaryan as being a good person just because there’s a different avaryan who may be worse.
@health Mishkav Zachar is a mahlokes if it’s a mitzvas bnei Noach. Same with a married man being mezaneh. There is no question that the latter is morally wrong, even for goyim, both according to the Torah and according to the current secular social systems. So I don’t see why we are making a fuss.
@ujm I believe that Rav Moshe ZT”L wrote in Iggors Moshe that abortion is bad, but sometimes necessary for medical reasons so we should not oppose building abortion clinics because it may endanger pregnant women who are in a state of sakonos nefashos. While not explicit endorsement of RvW, it’s certainly not the Xtian or OANN approach to the matter either.@always_ask_questions NY State has an extra layer of difficulty. As we all know, once the vaccine is defrosted and diluted, it’s only usable for six hours. If on any given day on any given clinic everyone who was on schedule to receive a dose gets one, there’s a question of what to do with the remaining doses. Some clinics chose to hand them out, first come first serve, so they don’t go to waste. But then Cuomo got all angry at that one place, so now a lot of clinics are forced to throw out vaccinations lest they face they ire of the NY State government by allowing people to skip the line.
@ujm and @jude You are missing something big when it comes to currency value. A dollar is valuable because billions of people assign value to it. I can walk into any store in the US and my dollar bill will be accepted there. Crypto doesn’t have that value. The vast majority of people do not accept payment in Etherium or Dogecoin in exchange for goods or services. It’s value comes almost entirely from the fact that people like to invest, buy, and sell it. (The few people who do accept it as currency are overwhelmingly drug and gun dealers, relying on the inherent anonymity of blockchain.) That alone makes it an extremely volatile system who’s value is very unstable.
@health If Rav Moshe ZT”L was as strong against abortion as people claim he was, he would have made a big deal to oppose Roe v. Wade. Instead he did the opposite. Rav JB Soleiveitchik ZT”L was much more machmire on abortion than Rav Moshe and did oppose it.
And I do believe it’s a machlokes if Trump was oiver on Giluy Arayos, and a different machlokes if Buttigieg was. So both are in the same boat.
All this is besides the point. What changes have the GOP done to stop things like DADT or overturn Obergefell v. Hodges? What has Trump said in opposition to things like the NY state law of partial birth abortions? Just because far-right conservative commentators (even some frum ones) like to pretend that the Republicans in DC are on the side of morality as defined by the Torah, does not make it true.
I know a bit about it.
Essentially it’s gambling. All crypto investments are extremely high risk and subject to massive peaks and valleys on any given day. There’s no guarantee even the most stable of cryptos won’t crash tomorrow or if the most popular, like BTC, will have another skyrocket increase in price. There are “farms” that own massive percentages in certain cryptos and they could at any point decide the price by either buying or selling a massive amount.
As for their price themselves, cryptocurrencies never really became useful currencies and are still essentially only valued at what people will pay for them, not at what they will buy. Like BTC can take hours to approve a transaction (“get your transaction signed and on the ledger” in crypto speak) and it’s so volatile you won’t find many vendors willing to take that sort of risk. You can buy something for $100 with 0.001 Bitcoins but by the time the transaction goes through, the vendor will receive 0.001 BTC but it’s now worth only $75.
And there are a lot of con artists out there making bank off of it. It’s how the old adage goes, in a gold rush the only ones making money are those selling shovels.
What I’m trying to say is that you shouldn’t invest in crypto. Maybe if you have a few hundred or thousand dollars you don’t mind potentially losing, it’s not the worst idea. But definitely don’t view it as a good investment.
@Health Who said anything about the Sheva Mitzvos? I’m talking about basic immorality. And are you disagreeing with Rav Moshe Feinstein regarding abortion?
@syag-lchochma True. But the fact that there are precious few Republicans that believe that Trump won the election makes him the lone voice of insanity shouting in the wilderness.
@Health You think this country isn’t already S’dom? I fail to see why the immoral anti-marriage, anti-family, and anti-decency practices of President Trump are better than the practices of someone like Pete Buttigieg.
@syag-lchochma Considering the total blackout of information regarding vaccine distribution, even to healthcare workers, can you excuse me if I take every claim with a massive grain of salt?
@jack-nadler @jackpot Unfortunately, Biden seems to think that killing a dead duck is more important than saving lives.@huju I believe Rav Hirsch ZT”L has a lot to say about the term “Reform”. The Reform invented the term to describe themselves, even though the movement is the opposite of a reformation. I don’t have an issue using it because I think it’s clear that the term describes the religion of Reform Judaism and not the idea that they are reformed Jews.
I’m going to go with what @catch-yourself said. The schools aren’t the issue, the issue is where people pretend that COVID is over. Also in my community (which may be the same one) schools are open, but very carefully with mask wearing and minimizing class mixing. The virus is spreading a little bit through the schools, but not in a worse way than anywhere else. The major upticks still seem to be from the people who have no problem dancing indoors at chasunas with 800 other people, none of them with masks or social distancing.
Congress is not dealing with the “steal” because there is nothing to deal with. They are dealing with a madman who incites mobs from his position of power while spouting lies that even his most ardent supporters don’t believe.
Everyone is all worked up because the current social climate thrives on getting people worked up. Specifically, promoting that you believe in an ideology and getting people worked up to fight those who oppose it is the best way to drum up support for yourself.
Most of the media doesn’t like Republicans, and they found that Democrats can get worked up really quickly if you find them an enemy so they promoted Trump as The Sutun incarnate.
The Republicans in turn got their constitutes worked up by pretending that Trump is what everyone wanted all along and everyone is a victim because of that.
Trump lost the election and was plummeting towards irrelevancy, so he worked up his supporters into following a farce.
The Democrats realized that they can get their constitutes worked up more if they gang up to fight a lame duck than they would if they did something useful, like fix the mess that is the COVID vaccine.
And here we are. Who knows where we’ll be next week?
There is a Yehi Ratzon for doctors to say when performing a procedure. Perhaps if you’re getting the vaccination from a frum person you should ask for he/she to say that. But a bracha is a big deal, it uses the Shem Hashem. It’s not so simple to just “say a bracha”. And you certainly should not pasken based on CR whether or not a bracha should be said.
I think there’s something like 17 versions of “Pandemic” out there. It’s a very popular game. I never played it, but I’ve played “Forbidden Island” by the same author which is a similar game. It’s co-operative, everyone works together to stop global pandemics by traveling around the world, building hospitals, and researching vaccines.
The latest versions to come out are a series called “Pandemic: Legacy” which are a fascinating new idea in board games (and great way to get peoples money). Every time you play the game, the rules change permanently. There are cards that are added or removed, stickers put into the instruction manual, and little boxes with new pieces to add. And the rules are different depending on how each game turns out. After ten games the rules stop changing and you end up with a unique board game that no one else has. Then they came out with three sequels to “Pandemic: Legacy” that tell an ongoing story about the pandemic so every year you have to buy the next game.
@charliehall Any particular region or era of history? I think I have a bit of a phobia of history books from years of my father insisting that I read “something intelligent” (which could mean anything from a 100 page “Mary Queen of Scots for Young Readers” or Benzion Netanyahu’s mammoth “The Origins of the Inquisition in 15th Century Spain”). Though I do make an exception for Israeli or Jewish history. I prefer science and math for my non-fiction reading.
@syag-lchochma Oh gosh, you name it. Chess and Rummikub are never off the table (literally). Our latest acquisition was “Smallworld Underground” which is a ton of fun. When the kids were off for the pandemic, I started a game of “Dungeons & Dragons” with them which is an experience I firmly believe every parent must have.I love cooking too, but I have a bad habit of experimenting and making a mess of things so I’m banned from the kitchen for anything other than garlic bread and veggie omelettes, both of which I’m great at.
Board games! I forgot about board games! I am a board game addict and it’s getting passed on to the next generation. Good thing they are big and expensive so we don’t buy too often.
Libby Lazewick is probably one of my favorite frum fiction authors, maybe because she writes what she knows and (usually) doesn’t try to mimic goyishe technothrillers and mysteries.
@syag-lchochma What type of books? My reading has slowed dramatically in direct correlation to how much attention my kids require. I like all types. Goyish, Jewish, fiction, non-fiction. (But the only Jewish fiction I read is by Marcus Lehmann.) My guilty pleasure is pre-teen science fiction/fantasy which I usually “borrow” from my kids.
The Yeshiva I was in at one point had a name as a potching Yeshiva. Almost all the Rebbeim potched. I can tell you, there were two occasions where the kid definitely deserved it, but the Rebbi went overboard. Eight grade the Rebbe would give a little love tap that wasn’t meant to hurt as he felt we were too mature for potches. Most occasions were completely unwarranted. One Rebbi in particular was just awful. We had him for the last hour of the day and he was trying to quit smoking at the time. Constantly irritable and grumpy. About 30 minutes of the hour was given over to punishments. Every day would start off with one kid reading off the list of assignments that were due that day. “Chaim Yankle, ‘I will not talk in class’ 100 times. Shmuel Baruch, Mishna aleph through gimmel with translation…” Those kids would either hand in their assignments or be lined up at the front of the class to be yelled at. Repeat offenders were slapped. Every day there was probably between one to four potches given out. I’ve heard from people who were his talmidim later that he improved and was actually a good Rebbi, but I have a hard time getting over him even decades later.
I doubt it. Too much controversy. Smaller parties may be enamored with him, but big political parties like Likud are a little embarrassed that they got caught with their hands in a cookie jar labeled “USA Top Secret” and just kind of want him to disappear.
False dichotomy. If the only way to control an unruly but mentally stable child is through medications or spanking, the teacher is doing something very very wrong.
ADHD overmedication was more a thing of the past anyway. It doesn’t occur nearly as much and requires much more thorough methods and documentation before it can be shown that the kid’s problem is a chemical imbalance requiring drugs.
@madealiyah Is that what’s happening? No. So stop with the hypothetical narischkeit Masks are annoying but necessary. If they weren’t necessary, I wouldn’t wear one. If the government made a law about masks when they aren’t necessary I would ignore it. Right now I wear a mask in public because it may help prevent the spread of COVID-19 not because there’s a law about it.
Masks aren’t a big deal (even if they can be difficult for some people) and neither are most of the other COVID-19 restrictions. But they do help prevent the spread, so please listen to the guidance of the Agudah and the Moetzes and follow the restrictions.
@mottel I don’t agree with all of the government’s policies, and I find it ridiculous that a massive pandemic is being used as a political football, but at the end of the day there are certain precautions that we have an achrayus to take. Masks are one of them and probably the one that causes the least amount of interference with one’s life.I don’t think I’ve ever seen a large outdoor levaya where Hatzalah wasn’t on call for people fainting. The poor fellow was probably on his feet for too long in the sun.
Let’s get this out of the way: there’s no danger nor loss of oxygen that can come from wearing a mask. Period. The difficulties that come from wearing a mask are about comfort and psychology. And these are things that not only are possible to overcome, but are necessary to overcome so that we can live our lives without resorting to quarantines every other week.
Anything by D’veykus or Abie Rotenberg in general.
@syag-lchochma I’m sorry if my words are a little off, but I’m really not getting something? He called Hatzalah on the guy presumably because he was choking, yes? I’m not trying to start a fight over here, nor exaggerate anything, I really thought that’s what he meant. It was in the context of a discussion about whether masks are dangerous and @syag-lchochma said yes they are and they almost called Hatzalah on someone walking out of shul because he couldn’t breathe. I said “choking” instead of “couldn’t breathe”. What am I missing?
I had another longer reply that addressed a lot of what we’re discussing, but some of these replies came in before it was mod approved. It may never be mod approved, so I’ll try to rewrite it if I don’t see it later.
@daas-yochid Why did you nearly call Hatzalah on an individual wearing a mask? Please explain that situation so we can move past it.I have, on multiple occasions, addressed the difficulty the uncomfortableness of wearing masks. I have also explained, on multiple occasions, why it’s still important to move past those difficulties, and how it is actually possible.
@syag-lchochma If you speak with respect you will be spoken to with respect. If continue you refuse to acknowledge that @daas-yochid claims they once saw someone almost in need of Hatzalah because of a mask, there is no purpose in treating your words with respect.@daas-yochid You know what? I take back what I said before. I wasn’t just advocating for mask wearing, I was advocating for a lot more, like social distancing. But I still fail to see how any of this is some major destructive force on people’s lives that’s worse than COVID-19. I guess quarantining is bad, but that’s an extreme measure only when someone has direct exposure or showing symptoms, so it’s still pretty important. Maybe making large simchas? I guess, I mean it’s part of our culture to make massive chasunas and bar mitzvahs, but maybe it’s time to rethink that? A Chasan and Kallah married with 100 people in attendance outside and wearing masks will still be the same married as the couple who did it in Marina del Rey with a crowd of thousands. Schools? This is one place where I agree with you. Schools and Yeshivos should not be closed. But they still should be taking reasonable precautions, like encouraging kids to wear masks, and limiting how many people the average kid comes in contact with.
Nothing of what I’m saying is unreasonable, but it’s the people being difficult about the small things like masks (and making outlandish claims regarding their mythical danger and difficulty) that are also probably not trying to make an effort to change the big things either.
@torahvaluesoverparty I don’t think lock downs work as well as they are supposed to. I think a big issue preventing lockdowns from stopping the virus is people who outright ignore it. They do work to slow the spread, though. That’s been proven. But they can only work if people are careful afterwards too.
@daas-yochid You said that you saw a person choking nearly to death because of a mask. So yes, you did say that wearing a mask is physically impossible and dangerous for many people. I am not “demanding huge life changes”. I’m asking that people wear masks. That’s literally all I’ve been saying this entire thread.
@madealiyah Please explain to me how wearing a mask while going to shul, the supermarket, school, or when talking with a friend is such a major hindrance on your life.@Mottel You’re right. Masks are only one part of the puzzle. We need masks, social distancing, limiting public gatherings, limiting close contact, exposure awareness, quarantine procedures, etc. And it’s still only partially effective which just goes to show how difficult this virus is and how important everything we do to prevent it is.
I had to Google “מקור חכמה נחל” because I had literally no idea what this post was about.
I think the Israeli government acted responsibly. Going to Uman isn’t being עולה רגל (l’havdil). It’s a nice thing based on the popular Chassidishe minhag of davening by the Rebbe on ימים נוראים. In the midst of a massive pandemic, I don’t think anyone can deny that travel was best left restricted. As we saw, even opening shuls was difficult and many people had to daven outside (or not with a minyan at all!) and even so there was a spike in COVID-19 cases.
@MadeAliya You said, and I quote directly,
How can anybody demand that people should wear a mask to protect others?
So excuse me if I take your words with some extreme skepticism.
About a year ago the biggest thread on CW was a couple of members arguing that vaccines are too dangerous and people shouldn’t take them. They had literally nothing to back their arguments up with. So I am not surprised that the same people are still alive and well during the current pandemic and also not surprised that their enablers are still around. People saying things like “Well, there are two sides to the issue…” or “I understand the concern even if personally….” are in my experience just vaccine deniers trying to look more legitimate.
@ujm That’s nice. But I don’t think Dr. Fauci can take any credit for the Pfizer vaccine. From what I understand (and I welcome corrections) Pfizer did not want to be meshubad to the US so they refused all funding and help. The vaccine was developed mostly in a lab in Germany. Trump and Fauci can take credit for the speedy process in which the FDA approved the vaccine for mass human testing then fast tracking the paperwork to get it approved ASAP. They almost beat the UK in that regard!