@rightwriter And the reason I said that you had an agenda is because you asked very specific questions which you already had answers to that you only mentioned once people responded in a way contrary to the answers you had in mind.

@AviraDeArah I didn’t say that Chazal’s refuos were based on folk remedies, I said that a Rishon did. Which is absolutely not problematic to say in any context. For that matter, the Gemara discusses many many strange sounding refuos, especially in Mesechtas Gittin. But I don’t recall any of them mentioning gemstones in particular. So it sounds to me, that when Rabbeinu Bechaye discussed the healing properties of the gems in the Choshen, he was basing it off of common knowledge.

@rightwriter The fox tooth is in the same sugya as the scary mask which I already commented on. Your questions about the significance of the Choshem stones was also answered, look it up in Rav Hirsch. There are multiple other Rishonim and Acharonim who discuss it, I’m sure you can find one or two in a Mikraos Gedolos.

What about when Bnei Yisrael had to gaze at the bronze snake to get healed?

Ayin Mishnayos mesachtos Rosh Hashonna (and the London School of Jewish Song song using those words).

Im sure there are plenty more sources in Judaism.

I’m sure there aren’t based merely on the fact that none of these gemstone salesmen mention them. The strongest source seems to be Rabbeinu Bechaye. All the other sources mentioned do not state that gemstones have healing properties, such as Avrohom Avinu which I mentioned in an earlier comment.

@rightwriter I would suggest not believing everything you’ve read on the internet. That “Or Emunah” site is highly questionable and seems to be more based on Eastern mythology than Torah. The “Kibitz” link is just trying to sell chintzy chotchkes. The only good source seems to be this Rabbeinu Bechaye which the Chabad site that quoted it stresses that the true healing is the Torah and Tahara.

I’m not sure what your agenda is, though it’s clear you have one. But other than one Rabbeinu Bechaye (who stresses that Torah is the ikkar and also seems based on the folk medicine of his time), there is no basis in Yiddishkeit that gemstones have some magical healing properties and can be used to supplement (or substitute) actual medical help.

@rightwriter

The Gemara in Shabbos is in the context of folk remedies, like wearing a scary mask to scare away diseases or healing amulets. Most Rishonim agree that the remedies aren’t actual cures, but psychological calming devices that we allow on Shabbos because of the placebo effect.

See the MAHARSHA on Baba Basra who says that the Gemara about Avrohom Avinu having a healing stone. The Gemara says that when he was niftar, Hashem put the power of the stone into the sun. The MAHARSHA explains that it’s a moshol. Avrohom Avinu had the knowledge of how to heal people and after he was niftar, Hashem gave the sun a certain koach that people will be healthy by spending time in the sunlight.

Read the studies you linked. HCQ and Ivermectin probably work as effective remedies to lessen the symptoms of COVID-19. But they are far from a silver bullet. Even if they were being used widespread in all COVID cases, the most optimistic studies show that it would have only had a 10-20% change in how many people died. Maybe.

The best remedy is still prevention. Get vaccinated if you haven’t had a positive COVID test in the last few months. If you can’t or won’t vaccinate, avoid contact with people and wear a mask when leaving your house.

I’m not a Talmid Chacham, but every book on Shalom Bayis I’ve seen has numerous quotes from Chazal about how it’s a chiyuv.

@rightwriter The links you posted confirm that it’s far safer to take the vaccine than to rely on having had COVID a year ago.

@rightwriter You keep harping on vague statements like “ineffective” and “rare”. Look at the actual numbers as to how effective vaccinations are compared to someone who tested positive for antibodies months ago.

@rightwriter So the answer to my question is yes. You are just ignoring my response to your flu comparisons.

@rightwriter Are you intentionally avoiding my responses to your questions? Like how COVID is nothing like the flu?

Antibodies are a fine substitute to the vaccine. But you can’t expect everyone to have antibodies, so those who haven’t had COVID in some time (three months I think they say) need to get the shot.

@rightwriter COVID-19 is far deadlier than the flu. For one, it’s far more likely for a healthy person to end up in the hospital and/or face long term health problems from COVID-19 than the flu. But more importantly, it’s much much more contagious.

And I am counting natural antibodies. Someone who had COVID already and shows a high number of antibodies in a test is fine and doesn’t need a vaccine. But unless they’re getting tested every two weeks, they will need a vaccine at some point.

Oh and I work in a place that researches robotic appendages and AI. So I guess I’m at the center of whatever maelstrom is brewing up.

@rightwriter I’ve said this in previous threads, maybe to you maybe to someone else.

Those who don’t take precautions against COVID (vaccines, social distancing, etc.) are like people speeding on a road. The biggest danger is to themselves (crashing into a wall), the second biggest danger is to others like them (crashing into a speeding car). But they are also endangering those who are trying their best not to speed.

So if a speed limit is impinging on your personal liberties and freedom of choice, then fine! Go to the Great Salt Flats or the German Autobahn or somewhere else where you’re allowed to speed. Otherwise, follow the law and keep other people safe.

@rightwriter Hold your horses there Marjorie Taylor-Greene. Last I checked, you’re in a frum forum where Churban Europa comparisons are frowned upon. If you said the same thing in a goyishe forum, you’d probably be called an anti-Semite.

I question the idea that ant-vaxxers believe that more people will die from the vaccines than COVID if no one takes it. I’ve never heard an anti-vaxxer explicitly state that and they always shy away from direct questions like “Don’t you think that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the possible side effects?”

I think they are mostly just afraid and are letting their personal feelings get in the way of seichel and common sense. They don’t want to take the vaccine, so they justify it with mounds of contradictory and vague statements.

@syag-lchochma I direct the term “pro-death” to those who are single-mindedly opposed to any and all proactive measures that can counter COVID-19. At this point that means mainly vaccinations. In this thread, it was not meant for you but if you think that describes yourself, then so be it.

@philosopher said:

There are many professionals, doctors and professors who came out against the shots.

This is another piece of propaganda that unfortunately seems to be swallowed by many frum Jews. It’s simply not true. There are almost no actual practicing medical doctors nor professors or other medical professionals in fields related to vaccines and viruses that have come out against the three vaccines! Read any pro-death (you know, the type of individual who is OK with another half a million people dying from COVID because “co-morbidity” or “they were old”) blog you can find on non-Google search engines and any pro-death video not on YouTube. They will invariably trot out some guy or woman in a lab coat and introduce them as “Dr. Plony” or “Professor Almoni” who will then speak about how horrible the vaccine is and how COVID is no big deal and they were banned from yenner website for saying so. Try looking them up. Always, and I do mean always, they are called Dr. because they have a PhD in some unrelated field, or they are a professor of philosophy, or they work in holistic medicine, or they retired 25 years ago some small contribution to the vaccines which they exaggerate.

So unless a practicing medical Doctor that you know and has been seeing you or your family as a patient since before COVID tells you that they don’t believe in vaccines and they aren’t allowed to say so, I am not going to believe you.

Here’s a hot take: I have no problem with people being excommunicated for speaking out against getting immunized for COVID-19.

Whatever health concerns you may have over the three vaccines, it should be abundantly clear that it’s still a better choice than to not get vaccinated. Not only will getting vaccinated protect yourself, but it will also protect those around you. It’s pure gayvah to talk about vaccinations and other COVID protective measures as “personal choice”. No, you’re elderly neighbor isn’t choosing to have you spit your diseased breath into her face because you wanted to say Gut Shabbos.

How many music groups has Yerachmiel Begun been in charge of and can you name any of their songs that aren’t from MBC?

@philosopher

There is no definite proof that mRNA from these shots cannot enter the nucleus.

There is no definite proof that being around blond people doesn’t turn you into a horse.

I can make any claim with the statement “There’s no definite proof that it doesn’t….”. That’s not how logic works.

You should also be very careful about the decisions you’re making! There’s a lot of serious talk about health insurance going up for people who don’t get vaccinated. There’s a good possibility that someone who is hospitalized from COVID may be responsible for their entire medical bill (even under Medicaid)!

One of the most common Shir HaMaalos tunes was originally from a different song with a different pasuk. What were the words?

@rightwriter Why is getting a vaccine considered a “liberal” thing? Modern politics are so stupid. Everything is either Dem or Rep, lib or conservative. When did common sense become a political issue?

tl;dr

Social justice advocates are hypocritical when it comes to Israel and Jews.

In other news, water is wet.