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@Health You’re right, just because I can’t find it doesn’t mean you’re wrong.
However, you own admission of ignorance coupled with the vague statements you are calling “facts” does. So you’re wrong.
@Health Says “I don’t know anything about the Satanic Panic”. @Health also says “Satan worship is pretty common in rural America”. You keep professing your ignorance, yet still claiming that you “know” that it’s very common.
The closest thing I can find to your story is the death of Jeanette DePalma who was from New Jersey not New York. Her death is still an unsolved mystery but a local priest drummed up some panic due to her body being found at a place called Devil’s Teeth. There was no altar, no group of teens, and like the Salem Witch Trials, no evidence that Satan worship was involved at all.
@Health There isn’t a single shred of evidence that there is, or ever has been, some massive underground cult of Satanists that routinely murder people. The Satanic Panic was merely a blood libel with different targets and different window dressings (although many did attempt to attack Jews as complicit in this alleged child murder ring). Most of the child witnesses from places like the McMartin Preschool recanted their testimony when they got older, and a lot of the testimony was re-examined and found to be either contradictory, implanted by the interviewer, or both.
@ujm Any conviction today that results in execution, even under the shadiest circumstances, still has far more proof than any convicted witch at Salem. The raya to this is Giles Corey. If they could knowingly and willingly execute an innocent man, who’s to say they wouldn’t do the same to many others?
@ujm Halachically, the Salem Witch Trials involved the murder of 20 people. (The one person who actually may have practiced some form of kishuf or Avodah Zara survived.) There’s nothing else to it. If you want to discuss halachic points, a goyishe court can’t just wantonly kill people for suspicion, they actually have to show proof. There was no proof for any of the 20 people executed, therefore they were all murdered.
@philosopher They mean that “Rav Schneerson is alive”. Sorry if my post is confusing, I was responding to the initial comment where the fellow says “3. Lubavitchers believe the Rebbe is alive
WRONG”. That is actually wrong, since many believe he is still alive.@ujm I forgot to elaborate on Giles Corey. He was one of the accused and he was tortured for a confession by having rocks put on his chest. He grinned at his molester, said “More weight” and died. By their own admission of the Salem court, Corey was completely innocent and still died.
So all else aside, the Salem Witch Trials absolutely murdered at least one innocent man.
@ujm I would like a source that witchcraft (not Avodah Zarah) is assur for goyim. Also, like @AviraDeArah says, it wasn’t exactly a trial. The biggest “proof” was the testimony of three ketanos and one confession extracted from torturing someone until they almost died.
Just to pick on one point:
Lubavitchers believe the Rebbe is alive
There absolutely are Lubavitchers who believe the last Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L is alive as evidenced by numerous pamphlets, websites, and other paraphernalia that they have produced. They have made it abundantly clear that they don’t believe he ever really died.
I mentioned on a different thread that Jewish publications have a danger that doesn’t exist in goyishe stuff. This here is a good example.
@ujm And gentiles can’t execute people for suspicion of Avodah Zarah. So I guess the two cases cancel each other out and the Salem judges remain murderers.
@ujm Tituba was Haitian and practiced some form of paganism that would probably fall under the category of Avodah Zara and something assur for Yidden to be connected to (kishuf, or machsheifus). The Xtians in Salem didn’t understand what she was doing and assumed she was worshiping the Sahtan. If that makes her guilty, then yeah. But I’m willing to be dan l’kaf zechus that she was a tinokes she’nishba. The other four people were as innocent as they come.
I’ve got a better idea.
If you have a question about a medicine, ask your doctor. If you want to know if you should get vaccinated, ask your doctor. If you want to know if the risk of getting vaccinated is more than the risk of getting COVID and treating it with ivermectin, ask your doctor.
And by “your doctor” I don’t mean a guy you looked up because you like his or her policies. I mean the doctor you generally go to for when you’re sick and have been going to before 2020. If you feel like you’re smarter than that doctor because of something you read on the internet or heard from a friend, then perhaps you no longer need doctors and should just do home-births, self-appendectomies, and treating illness with herbs from now on.
I don’t know the details of every case you mentioned, but I feel like you are doing yourself a disservice by mentioning the Sukkah dismantling here. This is the year where there were nebbach two tragedies in Eretz Yisroel involving a structure collapse in overcrowded situations on a Yom Tov that were supposedly checked by experts first. The Israeli authorities have every right to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
But yea, the Israelis kind of hate the Chareidim. That’s never been a secret.
I don’t get it. I’m old enough to remember when announcements like Metaverse were happening on a near-weekly basis. There was VRML, there was Second Life, there was VR Chat. Not one ended up as anything more than a cool looking toy. And none of the Zuckerberg technology is that much more advanced or available than all the others. So what makes Metaverse special?
I don’t know the details of this case, but I do know from the experience of several teachers I am close with that the absolute worst thing a school can do is capitulate to parents and decide the curriculum based on what they demand.
It’s a matter of historical record that there was actually one witch in Salem, a slave named Tituba. The other four people accused of working with her (three women and one man) denied any involvement and the only proof against them was the word of a couple of little girls. It was revealed that there were family and monetary disputes that the girls had to gain if these women were killed.
So what you, @ujm, are doing is saying that the word of a couple of goyishe ketanos is worth as much as the word of a Tana, l’havdil?
@AviraDeArah The so-called US “Satanic Panic” actually had a huge anti-Semitic/blood libel stink to it. A lot of the so-called “experts” on Satanism cited that Jews worshiped Lucifer with blood and death. There’s a recording floating around the Internet of a local talk show interviewing a woman claiming to be Jewish who left because she didn’t like kidnapping and killing babies.I wonder how much of that is skewed by the Chareidishe oilom who choose to live a life of Torah and potential poverty instead of sending their children to the IDF.
D’Oraysoh. Yehareig v’Al Ya’avor
Singers make very little off of the albums. They usually have big contracts with Mostly Music or whomever that nets them only a small percentage of the sales, in return for the producer doing basically everything but singing and songwriting.
- Almost always
- When the vendor is just a salesman contracted to sell the product and cannot make decisions as to the price
Pretty sure that WoW’s whole thing is that they do everything just within bounds of Shulchan Aruch, and pushing the envelope on that. It’s not their actions so much as their intent. They don’t just “want to be part of a minyan”. They think that normative frum Yiddishkeit is problematic and seek to change it.
Every single time one of these free speech sites has been started (Gab, Voat, etc etc etc), and I do mean every time, it’s immediately overrun by actual Nazis talking openly about Holocaust denial and how much they hate Jews (among other things). Then they loose their advertisers, then their hosting providers, then they solicit money from users, then they shut down.
I give it a month.
He was an oheiv Yisroel, a brilliant military and political leader, and a staunch Conservative. He was a Republican for almost his entire life and the reasons he left the party was because he felt that they were no longer living up to his ideals. Now every yutz thinks that they’re a bigger Conservative than the guy who was basically one of the most important Republicans in American for two presidents just because he also supported the Democrats.
@barlshwartz1 I have never seen anything in the Zohar that is “very clear” and that is true for this chelek in Achrei Mos. It talks about cutting hair and doesn’t use any words that mean “shaving off” like the Gemara uses when talking about a Nazir or a Metzorah.
@Health @coffee-addict Mai nafka minah if a COVID patient had co-morbidities or not? I never got that reasoning. If someone with a particular lung disorder is expected to live no more than five years and is niftar in one because of COVID, then it was the COVID that killed them.
The vaccines are 95% effective. Those 5% who it’s ineffective for are probably grouped in the high risk cases, such as cancer patients or those over 80. Powell was both.
This shows the importance of everyone who didn’t have COVID in the last year to get vaccinated. Vaccinated people are far less likely to spread COVID to those who are in danger.
I’ve heard recently that the issue of chatzitza was because the lack of cleaning products in many communities meant that long hair had a tendency to clump together and catch dirt and lice.
@avriadearah Acharei Mos. Are you sure? There’s a chelek there that discusses the mitzvah of women covering their hair, and the big zechuyos that come with it. But I don’t see where the Ba’al HaZohar says shaving. My Aramis isn’t great, but he never uses the words “Giluach” or any of its synonyms regarding hair.
@Yabia-Omer I think that there’s an unacknowledged danger in “kosher” literature and media in that you think that everything in it is OK and normal and worry about spending the price of a small house to cloth and feed your family for Yom Tov.
On one hand, I understand and respect people who reject any non-Jewish book (and censor even Jewish ones) from their homes. On the other hand, I can never see myself doing that.
What about the tzniyus regarding long jackets?
@aviradearah This may be my misnagdus coming to the surface, but I am extremely skeptical of any explanation that concludes “for kabbalah reasons”. Do you have a source on the Zohar?
@rightwriter Oh, you definitely saw UFOs. I mean, they were flying and you couldn’t identify them 😊.
Every look up in the sky on a clear day and watch a high flying plane go by? Above a certain high, you can barely make out the craft and certainly can’t hear it. Some planes don’t blink their lights, so seen from afar it looks like a solid light streaking across the sky. Or it could be meteors. Or high altitude drones. Or an illusion caused by the light hitting a flying insect. Or any one of a billion explanations that are far more rational than aliens. Regarding @farbycoffe s comments, read the non-English words backwards. You fell for a troll.
@Health Is like our last thread with another six hour long video that you have difficulty pointing out the period in which the alleged “proof” is given over?
If you want to read about the Torah perspective on aliens, probably the most comprehensive source is Rabbi Dr. Normal Lamm’s essay in the book Challenge called The Religious Implications of Extraterrestrial Life. There’s also a Gemara in Brachos (sorry, don’t remember the daf) that mentions resident of certain stars helping the Bnei Yisroel fight a war.
As for lights in the sky, I used to be pretty into UFOs and unsolved mysteries and stuff. Then I unfortunately grew up. Turns out that pretty much all of the really weird sightings were either admitted fakes, or one person who saw it. Amazingly, with the advent of cameras in everyone’s pocket all the time, reports of close encounters with aliens and their spacecrafts have dwindled to effectively zero (along with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster).
So the only encounters being recorded and reported are lights in the sky. Which could be alien spacecraft. Buuuuut in all likelihood, they’re just random things. Like how videos at night show some bugs in certain lighting as floating glowing orbs. Or just the sheer number of things flying around these days, from drones, to balloons, to small planes.
It’s the same with the military. You have to understand, the “U” in “UFO” is for “Unidentified”. Which is something they see every day all the time. Blips on the radar from flocks of birds, or pilots seeing something out of the corner of their eye. If it’s not a threat, they just shrug it off. And that’s what most of the declassified reports show. Just a pilot who saw something moving fast, a radar technician who couldn’t pin down the source of a signal, and so on.
Sorry to take the fun out of things, but that’s just how things are.
My understanding is that Rav Schneerson ZT”L once spoke about how birthdays are important, so amongst Chabad celebrating birthdays is a big deal.
But why him on Google as opposed to hundreds of other Jewish figures who have done far more for Yiddishkeit and the world, like maybe the RAMBAM, or Rebbi Akiva.
@Participant Well that shouldn’t be a problem. It looks like the pro-Trump anti-Democracy crowd is as bereft of facts as usual.
You do realize that to be dati and anti-Chareidi isn’t a stirah.
@torahvaluesoverparty The AZ AG has said that he needs more data to determine if fraud happened. In other words, there’s no evidence in this report that there was fraud, even for someone deeply invested and biased such as Mike Brnovich.
After the report came out, the only response by pro-audit Republicans has been vague “it raises questions”. No one actually stated what those questions are and what would constitute an acceptable answer. So yeah, it looks like we are back to square one. Meaning that there’s no evidence of fraud so we have to conclude that the Maricopa election was fair. And all these mysterious “questions” are just more smoke screens with intent to sow mistrust.
how does a ballot sent to the wrong address get to the hands of the correct voter?
It wasn’t that they were sent to the wrong address, it’s that they were sent to an address that someone had moved from recently. Presumably, the new residents (or, in the case of people moving out of their parents house, their families) would just give them their mail.
Can you explain how your propose this fraud would have worked? Like, hypothetically, if this was a case of fraud, what were the Democrats trying to gain by sending a random batch of ballots to the wrong people, (considering that the ballots were proportionately divided up into Democrats, Republicans, and others)?
No.
- As soon as the results were called, Guiliani et al were already pushing forward various theories about how the election was stolen. All of them were thrown out of court for not having a leg to stand on. This is pretty good evidence that the “stolen election” narrative is an invention for the profit of Trump’s team and nothing else
- Recently, Arizona’s Maricopa County completed a massive and controversial audit of the election. The worst things that the audit found was a deleted hard drive and a bunch of mail-in ballots that were sent to the wrong address. Neither would have been enough to swing the election results in the state of Arizona
- Mr. Pillow Man has been releasing video after video claiming to have evidence that the election servers were hacked. He has yet to release a single shred of said evidence and instead resorts to giving air time to people who claim to have seen the hacking
- Notably, nobody who supports the narrative has had a single consistent story since day one. Every time a claim has been debunked, a new one surfaces. It shows pretty clearly that it’s not a narrative based on data, but rather evidence is being invented to fit the narrative.
@philosopher Actually none of the situations where the vote flipped for Biden was unexpected, but it was one of the things that Guiliani and Trump’s team tried to use to prove fraud. In every case where Trump was winning a state, then the numbers flipped, it was because that’s when they started counting the votes from a major urban county that’s been Blue for decades. In one example, it was close but Trump was ahead, but flipped when they counted mail-in ballots which country-wide were much more Democrat than Republican (probably because the Republicans were specifically telling their constitutes to vote in person).
@torahvaluesoverparty The Arizona AG, who is the only person you are relying on to interpret this audit, pretty much came out and said that the results don’t show fraud.
To be honest, in this context I don’t like “I don’t know” as an answer. This whole thread has been about eagerly awaiting the audit results and what they show. As soon as they were releases, you and others were quick to jump on it and say that you believe the audit will confirm “tens of thousands” of votes were potentially fraudulent. Now, since we’ve unambiguously shown that it proves nothing of the kind, suddenly you back off with “Well, I don’t know…” as if the data that you’ve been consuming all this time is too complex to chap. (I mean, just last week you were explaining how the medias reporting that the audit showed Biden won was wrong) No, I don’t accept that.
It may take a statistician to look at data and figure out if there’s something fishy their, but you don’t need to have a Gadol sized IQ to realize that a bunch of wrong addresses on a mass mailing are not indicative of anything.
China is already committing Holocaust level atrocities against the Uighurs. Arguably, this is their second go round after Mao’s “Great Leap Forward” caused a famine to be far worse than it should have been and killed tens of millions of Chinese.
There’s a machlokes if bug extract used for coloring can be eaten. Most Rabbonim are machmir and say no. So it’s not definitely problematic, just meikel on something a little less common.
Like, at least 2.
@torahvaluesoverparty I know what a Bellwether county is, that’s not my point. The question is whether 18 out of 19 wrong means anything. Any half-baked statistician or accountant can tell you that you’re always going to find statistical anomalies in large amounts of real world data. But you have to have an understand of what that data is to know which things are important and which aren’t. Over here, you can glance over at the article on FiveThirtyEight titled “Where did all the Bellwether Counties Go?” which explains in greater detail. For instance, for the last 36 years, every time a Bellwether County voted against the winner, they were dropped from the list. So it’s kind of meaningless data since it’s been changed so many times to fit a result, it’s kind of like saying “Every time Rockland County voted Republican, the Republican won except when they voted Democrat”.
And speaking of FiveThirtyEight, they’ve been writing comprehensive statistical analysis and predictions of political elections for years. For presidential elections they predict by county with a small margin of error. And every election since 2008, including 2020, has been well within that margin (even 2016 when CNN was saying that Clinton has a 99% chance, FiveThirtyEight gave Trump a 1 in 3 chance based on him winning specific counties, which he did). So if you want to leave things to the experts, they certainly come to mind.
There are two very simple questions that you’re not only ignoring, but also making extremely complicated for no reason: Was fraud committed because ballots were sent to the wrong address? Yes or no? Next question: Should every state delay counting for months and spend millions on security audits to squeeze out every possible issue with their ballots? Yes or no?
You guys go after Fauci like a Meshichist goes after Rav Shach. You do realize that he’s for the most part just repeating what the vast majority of the rational and educated world is saying and adding on an extra level of caution?
@aviradearah The logic I’ve heard from Agunah activists is like this. Both sides in a bad divorce have a lot of weapons and ammo to use against each other. And in each case there are advantages and disadvantages that differ from couple to couple. But the one constant is that the husband always has the ability to withhold the get which makes it an uneven playing field.
@torahvaluesoverparty “There are lies, filthy lies, and statistics”. That’s the problem, it’s all what you call “number-crunching”. Like what makes a Bellwether county, how significant is winning it, and can we infer anything at all or is it just a media hype? Do you know any accountants, preferably those involved in auditing? Maybe a statistician or data scientist? They can definitely explain your questions and concerns a lot better than I can. B’kitzur, you can’t just base major ideas on a few memes that show something claiming to be significant when the reality is way more complicated. Otherwise we’d all be calling Israel a genocidal colonial racist regime.
You say that the bar for an audit should not be set high, but this is in a thread where you defend throwing out any ballot that was sent to an address where the individual recently moved out of. That’s not just high, that’s astronomical.